Posted on 04/16/2008 1:39:51 PM PDT by MissouriConservative
Several women from the polygamist retreat raided more than a week ago defended their lifestyle Wednesday in an exclusive interview with FOX News, calling it "a wonderful pure life," and saying government officials deceived them when they raided the ranch where they live.
***SNIP***
"I want the world to know that our children have been torn from us and that they need us," said Sally, a mother of nine.
"They told us that they were going to put us on a bus and take us to where it was a bigger, better place to be — where our family could be together," she added.
***SNIP***
On Monday, officials began separating women and some of their offspring without warning, members of the sect said.
***SNIP***
Texas Children's Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said officials decided that children are more truthful in interviews about possible abuse if their parents are not around.
"I can tell you we believe the children who are victims of abuse or neglect, and particularly victims at the hands of their own parents, certainly are going to feel safer to tell their story when they don't have a parent there that's coaching them with how to respond," Meisner said.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
“Texas Children’s Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner said officials decided that children are more truthful in interviews about possible abuse if their parents are not around.
“I can tell you we believe the children who are victims of abuse or neglect, and particularly victims at the hands of their own parents, certainly are going to feel safer to tell their story when they don’t have a parent there that’s coaching them with how to respond,” Meisner said.”
Seems to me that I remember a time when some daycare people were destroyed because the children made up a bunch of lies and were encouraged by child services. I wonder how much coaching Ms. Meisner is giving the kids about what to say. One woman in the story said....
“I have an 18-year-old daughter that has been taken and isolated, and they’re trying to interrogate her and trying to get her to say that she is the victim,” Amy told FOX News. “And she’s been isolated and interrogated through the whole night and then several days and the abuse is absolutely terrible.”
Sounds like grilling a suspect instead of interviewing a “victim”.
I watched the interview this morning as I was getting ready for work; gave me the creeps. All 3 of the women interviewed seemed like they just weren’t quite all there.
Stepford wives
Right now all we see are fresh-scrubbed mothers in their missionary garb.
Looks like a modern attempt at PR manipulation.
All of the photos I've seen are of females, where are the males?
Obviously don't know much about the *outside* world.
Reminded me of some prairie stepford wives or normal wives on Prozac.
I wonder if the mothers are speaking the accepted responses because they are threatened with the loss of their children.
Which, in most cases, a mother could be coerced into saying whatever her captors wanted.
The cult leaders could be threatening the women by telling them if the authorities didn’t like their lifestyle the children could be removed from the mothers forever.
The Friends spent a lot of time on these gals this morning...it was disturbing indeed.
And they all spoke as if they were using a falsetto, instead of having voices of mature women. That's part of their gentle and meek countenance, I suppose, but I found it very disturbing.
These woman "have" to believe this cult crap, or they would realize how stuck they were with no future for themselves and their children. No education. No friends on the outside. No freedom. No independence. They'd have to face what their parents let happen to them. So the cycle continues.
This situation needs to be monitored very closely. There is an obvious pre-judgment that is occurring here. I'm of the opinion that court ordered advocates for the children should be the NORM in this situation with all contact between social services and the children being recorded and conducted in the presence of the child advocates.
Where did all their teenaged sons go?
Well, Sally, that's because they need to determine whether there was abuse and what your level of complicity in that abuse has been.
By the way, Sally, how old were you when you married your husband? How old was he? Have any underaged daughters that were forced to marry an older man?
“They told us that they were going to put us on a bus and take us to where it was a bigger, better place to be — where our family could be together,” she added.
Shades of the trains to Auschwitz
Would you be if your children were taken from you and placed in the “care” of social workers? I sure as hell would not be. I have seen cases where social workers have abused their power for “the good of the children”. I am not saying that something did not happen there, but to take hundreds of kids away from their mothers based on an “anonymous” tipster they can not find is also very frightening. It could have been some teenager that thinks the whole group is just weird and decided to stir things up. Or perhaps the government made the call themselves. Is this really all the level of proof we need to rip families apart.
And we all know that children can be manipulated to say what ever the “interviewer” wants. This whole thing smells.
It does draw attn to the fact that we don't get to hear from the horny old goats, only the meek little sheep. This is so Stockholm Syndrome.
And would you feel the same if the nice social workers showed up at your door to pull your kids out of your home to check on “whether there was abuse and what your level of complicity in that abuse”? Especially when there is no evidence of abuse except an anonymous tip?
I doubt it.
Well in Texas it says....
What is the age with parental consent in Texas?
Male: 14 – parental consent and/or permission of judge required. Below age of consent parties need parental consent and permission of judge, no younger than 14 for males and 13 for females.
Female: 14 – parental consent and/or permission of judge required. Below age of consent parties need parental consent and permission of judge. No younger than 14 for males and 13 for females.
So as long as mom or dad gives consent, as long as the girl was at least 14, it passes the state law test.
I must've seen the same interview. It's a very simple, straight-up proposition: either underaged girls have gotten pregnant and had children, or they have not. If they have, the law was broken and these women did nothing to protect their children. In a small community, any one of the women would have to know. I lived in a much larger small town and everyone knew everything. And we weren't FLDS; just plain old small-town Americans.
And they all spoke as if they were using a falsetto, instead of having voices of mature women. That's part of their gentle and meek countenance, I suppose, but I found it very disturbing.
That part was weird, agreed. My immediate reaction was similar; that their husbands may have wanted them to talk that way, because it is meek and child-like.
These woman "have" to believe this cult crap, or they would realize how stuck they were with no future for themselves and their children. No education. No friends on the outside. No freedom. No independence. They'd have to face what their parents let happen to them. So the cycle continues.
But at some point, like every woman and man who have done the brave thing and left, they know it is wrong. They at least have to know it is illegal, because they are told not to talk to the public or law enforcement, at least according to reports of those who have left, for fear of arrest. I don't hold them as responsible as the men, but darned close.
Exactly. And it may backfire on them.
If there is a crime, and solid probable cause, investigate and prosecute that crime. But don't act on what may well be a ruse and then do so in a manner that looks more and more like a big fishing exercise.
These officials acted on a very thin (it seems to me) phone call that wasn't even recorded about a man who does not even live at the compound or in the state of Texas.
By acting so percipitously, if they do not locate this girl and have her story corroborated by facts, Texas may end up looking at huge law suits that fill this cult's coffers, and discourage future investigation.
I hope I ma wrong...but it's nonetheless always best to strictly follow constitutional guidance in such local matters. IMHO, they have (for what they consider to be the best of underlying reasons) stepped over their constitutional mandate if this girl turns out to be a ruse or disaffected member...and may jeopardize propoer investigation and prosecution in the future.
Shades of drinking the cool-aide. This press thing was a lame attempt at PR and you seem to have bought it.
To Cal Farley's Boys Ranch.
http://www.calfarley.org/Pages/default.aspx
To which one post on the net is as follows:
http://texaslastfrontier.com/prairie_fire_journal/blog1.php
The state of Texas dispersed two dozen of the FLDS boys to the remote Cal Farley Boy's Ranch compound located in the northern Texas panhandle county of Oldham, approximately 400 miles north of Eldorado Monday night. In effect, placing the boys in a foster care facility without a proper hearing. Cal Farley's Boy Ranch is an isolated compound located at the confluence of the Canadian River and U.S. Highway 385. It's a privately operated facility for troubled children that emphasizes an evangelical Christian perspective. Life at the ranch is highly regimented, highly supervised, and the children have very limited contact with the outside world. Communicating with outsiders is forbidden unless approved and supervised by ranch staff. Attendance at Sunday church services is mandatory. I don't know how they punish children at the ranch these days, but in the 1970s I witnessed brutal beatings of children by the staff. Stiff corporal punishment was the order of the day back then. Since access to the ranch is restricted, it's hard for the general public to know what really goes on in there. I thought that was the kind of place the state claims it was saving them from when it conducted a mass abduction at the FLDS ranch in Eldorado 12 days ago.
/johnny
“Well, Sally, that’s because they need to determine whether there was abuse and what your level of complicity in that abuse has been.”
And will you take that answer when they come for yours?
So you admit there has NOT BEEN a determination of abuse, but you are not bothered by the state taking four hundred children from their mothers.
Young children walking around pregnant isn't evidence in your world.
Does the age of consent for marriage matter, since most of these marriages are a sham? Or can I really give consent for my thirteen year old daughter to be raped by a fifty year old guy? Remember - they aren’t legally married!
Have you noticed how few of the Big Love-Daddy Prophets have come forth to talk to the world?
Aren't they supposed to be Preachers?
Instead, they hide behind the flowing pink dresses of their concubines.
Bah.
I find it unsettling how many here on FR flirt with apologias for the perquisites of old, goat perverts.
I am sure it is a "wonderful" life for the 50 year old men that bed 14 year old girls.
Have you noticed how few of the Big Love-Daddy Prophets have come forth to talk to the world?
Aren't they supposed to be Preachers?
Instead, they hide behind the flowing pink dresses of their concubines.
Bah.
I find it unsettling how many here on FR flirt with apologias for the perquisites of old, goat perverts.
With 6 women asking to NOT go back to the camp and instead stay with their kids in town, I'd suggest they have all the evidence they need that the group was violating Texas laws.
Reading through your front page I caught wind of your being in the intermountain West just past Idaho. Got some relatives in the area ~ Christmas Valley ~ all of 'em belong to the local Apostolic Charismatic Church of the First Born .... bet you know exactly where that is don't you!
Give us a link, Please..
And what does the "state law test" say about abortion?
“The women, who appeared on FOX News wearing similar high-collared dresses in pastel colors, said they agreed to speak to the media in the hopes of getting their children back.” . . . so they could hand them over to pederast freaks when they start their periods.
There, fixed it.
It's a RANCH. It is not a "compound". A 'compound' by definition would be an enclosed area and the inference is that it is also a fortification. The ranch in question is surrounded by the kind of ranch fencing typical of the area and there are no fortifications whatsoever at the ranch.
The term 'compound' is being used by the Texas authorities and the media to propagandize and incite opinion against these people.
“Seems to me that I remember a time when some daycare people were destroyed because the children made up a bunch of lies and were encouraged by child services.”
The differences I see in this case are:
1. Their official, published beliefs are that adolescent girls should have sex with whatever man they are told to have sex with.
2. There is a lot of physical evidence that they are acting on their beliefs (many pregnant teen girls).
3. There are many ex members of this cult who will testify that this indeed occurs regularly.
I can’t put this in the same league as McMartin preschool.
Wrong. The age of consent has been changed to 16 with a parent’s permission. This law was enacted when the FLDS set up shop in TX a few years ago, knowing their track record with little girls.
“These woman “have” to believe this cult crap, “
I read that over a hundred women chose to go to a women’s shelter rather than return to their wonderful home.
“Shades of the trains to Auschwitz”
Where is Auschwitz? In the shelters, or back at the Ranch.
I think these trains were LEAVING Auschwitz, to go with your analogy.
While what you are talking about is a real concern if the people asking the questions don't do their jobs properly, I'm pretty sure the solution isn't to just ignore accusations of abuse and never question children without their parents present.
Record the sessions, and allow the parents to make the argument that their children were coerced.
“I have an 18-year-old daughter that has been taken and isolated, and they’re trying to interrogate her and trying to get her to say that she is the victim,” Amy told FOX News. “And she’s been isolated and interrogated through the whole night and then several days and the abuse is absolutely terrible.”
Sounds like grilling a suspect instead of interviewing a “victim”.
So why isn't this adult child demanding to speak with a lawyer or be released? It's not like she's been prevented from talking from anyone else. If she has been, how does this woman know this is happening?
This is a close knit cult. These are the people from that group that have volunteered to talk to the press. It's possible that they are just defending themselves against the evil government that is out to get them. It's also possible that they are lying to gain sympathy.
Her claims that her adult daughter not only had been held in isolation for days, but has been questioned without sleep, and suffered abusive interrogation is incredulous. Even if you accept her claims as true, how would she know how her daughter has been questioned since she's been isolated from her?
You might want to look up the definition of one of the words you used.
And it is enclosed, by several rings of obstacles.
Eww.
I can't really believe what I'm reading, the impulse to protect the prerogatives of degenerate men. This whole thing plays into a sick fantasy of domination. You don't see the parallels with Sharia?
Most of the boys are run off when they get old enough to fancy girls. There’s another post today about the “lost boys.”
Male: 14 – parental consent and/or permission of judge required. Below age of consent parties need parental consent and permission of judge, no younger than 14 for males and 13 for females.
Female: 14 – parental consent and/or permission of judge required. Below age of consent parties need parental consent and permission of judge. No younger than 14 for males and 13 for females.
Wrong! The minimum age to marry was raised to 16 a few years ago just after this group moved to Texas.
All you have is proof that these women chose to stay with their kids. Bear in mind the children are not allowed to return to the ranch so if the mothers wish to stay with their kids they cannot return to the ranch, either. That they made the choice to stay with their kids is being spun to make it look like they want to leave the ranch when that isn't completely true.
If the shoe fits.
It's a compound.
Well in Texas it says....
is the age with parental consent in Texas?
Where are you finding your information? Citations, please. You may be citing marriage law, but since these are not legal marriages, the marriage laws do not apply; the age of consent laws, do. And the marriage laws can only apply where there is no abuse and where the child consents.
The age of consent laws in Texas are very different, and they are damning. They paint an an entirely different picture:
The age of consent in Texas is 17 {Texas Penal Code Section 21.11}. However , "...It is an affirmative defense to prosecution under this section that the actor...was not more than three years older than the victim and of the opposite sex...(and) did not use duress, force, or a threat against the victim at the time of the offence" and is not a registered sex offender {Section 21.11(b)}.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_North_America#Texas
You wrote:
: 14 – parental consent and/or permission of judge required. Below age of consent parties need parental consent and permission of judge, no younger than 14 for males and 13 for females.
: 14 – parental consent and/or permission of judge required. Below age of consent parties need parental consent and permission of judge. No younger than 14 for males and 13 for females
Again, please cite your sources, since plural marriages are not legal, the marriage laws do not and cannot apply to these children.
No parent can give their permission for their child to be abused illegally, regardless of age.
...they just weren’t quite all there.
Like the Charlie Manson harem girls...remember them?
Well that fits one of the definitions of "abuse" doensn't it!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.