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Jill Stanek: Obama and the sex life of 12 year olds
WorldNetDaily ^ | 4/16/08 | Jill Stanek

Posted on 04/16/2008 4:51:58 PM PDT by wagglebee

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Beyond that, am I the only one who thinks Obama using his own daughters as examples of sexually active 6th-graders – or even 10th graders – is disturbing?

The leftists certainly don't.

1 posted on 04/16/2008 4:51:59 PM PDT by wagglebee
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To: cgk; Coleus; cpforlife.org; narses; 8mmMauser

Pro-Life Ping


2 posted on 04/16/2008 4:53:43 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: 230FMJ; 50mm; 69ConvertibleFirebird; Aleighanne; Alexander Rubin; An American In Dairyland; ...
Moral Absolutes Ping!

Freepmail wagglebee to subscribe or unsubscribe from the moral absolutes ping list.

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3 posted on 04/16/2008 4:54:06 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

WorldNutDaily ping.


4 posted on 04/16/2008 5:03:39 PM PDT by rednesss (Fred Thompson - 2008)
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To: wagglebee
I know there are 12-year-olds in the world having sex. But it's not normal behavior.

That is an erroneous statement as it stands. But it depends upon how normal is defined. It's normal from a biological point of view for pubertal mammals to have sex. Other points of view (religious, parental, etc.) may disagree

5 posted on 04/16/2008 5:05:41 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: Rudder
It's normal from a biological point of view ...

It's also normal from a biological point of view, in some cases, for mothers to eat their young.

6 posted on 04/16/2008 5:08:02 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Rudder

How about the article’s statement that Obama is promoting pedophilia?

Really, its time to stop posting WND articles, they are just so ridiculous.


7 posted on 04/16/2008 5:09:04 PM PDT by babble-on
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To: wagglebee

VERY disturbing! He also does not support giving medical attention to babies who have been born alive during partial birth abortion. That is a fact directly from his Ill. voting record!


8 posted on 04/16/2008 5:09:45 PM PDT by gidget7 (Duncan Hunter-Valley Forge Republican!)
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To: rednesss

Jill Stanek is a leader in the pro-life movement, she writes a regular column that they publish, she is not part of their writing staff.


9 posted on 04/16/2008 5:10:48 PM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: wagglebee

“Look, I got two daughters – 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don’t want them punished with a baby. I don’t want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn’t make sense to not give them information.”

That is downright creepy! Even thinking about the sexuality of two babies that age...his daughters, no less.

He learned well in the Madrassah the roles of boys and girls in this world!


10 posted on 04/16/2008 5:13:22 PM PDT by Palladin (Pennsylvania: guns, religion, and liberty.)
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To: wagglebee
The most troubling text was Obama speaking of his daughters having sex and pregnant at 12 years old. His daughters used as Democrat agitprop.

Obama responded:

What I was saying was that my daughters are 9 and 6. And so if, at the age of 12 or 13, they made what I would consider to be a mistake, in having sex or unprotected sex, and ended up getting pregnant – I think that statistically we know 12- or 13-year-olds who are having children are much more likely to be impoverished, are much more likely to have health problems, are much more likely to have trouble raising that child.

11 posted on 04/16/2008 5:14:09 PM PDT by ricks_place
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To: wagglebee
Look, I got two daughters – 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information.

The first twenty-three words sound nice, but--if I'm beating a dead horse here, I apologize--just what are those "values and morals?" that he would instill in his daughters?

Kids make mistakes; that is a given. A child is not a punishment. There are options for pregnant teens (and in some cases, pre-teens) other than abortion, but the point would be lost on Obi-Wanna Snowme, Master of the Farce.


12 posted on 04/16/2008 5:18:11 PM PDT by Das Outsider ("Art, like morality, consists of drawing the line somewhere." --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Rudder

Human beings are not just mammals. Thery have intelligence and will. They do not have to blindly follow instinct.

Girls who start having sex at age 12 have not usually done so consensually. Early sexual behavior in girls leads to years of suffering from STDs, later abortions, loss of self-respect, lesbianism, low self-esteem and a host of other psychological and emotional problems.


13 posted on 04/16/2008 5:19:04 PM PDT by Palladin (Pennsylvania: guns, religion, and liberty.)
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To: Das Outsider
Notice that he used the future tense with regard to teaching values and morals. He said that he is "going to teach them first about values and morals." So, he hasn't been teaching them these things all along?
14 posted on 04/16/2008 5:29:48 PM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four fried chickens and a coke)
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To: Palladin
Girls who start having sex at age 12 have not usually done so consensually.

Tell that to Margaret Mead.

15 posted on 04/16/2008 5:29:58 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: wagglebee
Look, I got two daughters – 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby.

So essentially, he wants to teach them 'values and morals'; but he also wants to make sure they know that there are no negative consequences for disrespecting those 'values and morals' - thoroughly typical.

16 posted on 04/16/2008 5:30:24 PM PDT by eclecticEel
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To: Rudder

I’m sorry to inform you that Margaret Mead is dead. Very dead.


17 posted on 04/16/2008 5:32:48 PM PDT by Palladin (Pennsylvania: guns, religion, and liberty.)
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To: eclecticEel

“I don’t want them punished with a baby. I don’t want them punished with an STD....”

Man, I wonder how his daughters feel about his views on children. (”Okay, if I had to choose, I’m glad your mom had you rather than herpes, I guess”.)


18 posted on 04/16/2008 5:37:03 PM PDT by 21twelve (Don't wish for peace. Pray for Victory.)
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To: eclecticEel
So essentially, he wants to teach them 'values and morals'; but he also wants to make sure they know that there are no negative consequences for disrespecting those 'values and morals' - thoroughly typical.

I think that is precisely the sentiment on some of these threads that the word "punish" came from.
19 posted on 04/16/2008 5:53:42 PM PDT by UndauntedR
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To: Palladin
I’m sorry to inform you that Margaret Mead is dead. Very dead.

Well, it's only proper that you should be sorry. I accept your apology.

20 posted on 04/16/2008 6:00:25 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: Army Air Corps
Notice that he used the future tense with regard to teaching values and morals. He said that he is "going to teach them first about values and morals." So, he hasn't been teaching them these things all along?

Good observation. I did miss that.

I may be a bitter, gun-toting, Bible-thumping, anti-immigrant, anti-trade bigot by Master Snowme's estimation, but something's definitely amiss in Obama's statement. The core of my question had to do with just what kind of values and morals he is talking about. General Bible-based morality? Condoms on cucumbers for six-year olds? The value of marriage and purity?

Heck, it's Obi-Wanna. Even he probably doesn't know what he meant. It takes a certain kind of character to preface their support for abortion rights with phrases like "values and morals."
21 posted on 04/16/2008 6:00:49 PM PDT by Das Outsider ("Art, like morality, consists of drawing the line somewhere." --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Rudder; Palladin
I've heard it said that Samoans are...shall we say...not exactly thrilled with Mead's portrayal of them.
22 posted on 04/16/2008 6:10:06 PM PDT by Claud
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To: Rudder

You are wrong. However, explaining why is not the point of this thread.


23 posted on 04/16/2008 6:10:31 PM PDT by Shanty Shaker
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To: Rudder
It's normal from a biological point of view for pubertal mammals to have sex.

How I tire of this argument. It's quite normal in some mammals for there to be a strict sexual order. The dominant males breed in a harem, everyone else goes bye-bye. And if you take over the harem from another male...you get to eat the cubs.

Oh, and some animals eat their own feces.

I guess these behaviors should be normalized for humans as well?

24 posted on 04/16/2008 6:24:01 PM PDT by Claud
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To: wagglebee

This article proves what I was trying to say to you on the last thread about the way the pro-life movement twists things to serve their purpose. It doesn’t work and it turns the majority of people off.

It doesn’t even work with the pro-life people on this site.

Now, if you have something to say about the article, the author or the content, by all means respond. But if it’s another Hildy’s a horrible person comment, save it.


25 posted on 04/16/2008 6:33:45 PM PDT by Hildy (Obama: "Yes, I sat in his church, but I didn't inhale.")
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To: ricks_place

No kidding. 12 years old! Truly troubling.


26 posted on 04/16/2008 7:49:48 PM PDT by socialismisinsidious ( The socialist income tax system turns US citizens into beggars or quitters!)
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To: Rudder

So, now we are supposed to define normal behavior by the way that a wild animal acts? Besides the scientific and religious problems with the theory of evolution this is another negative effect of the acceptance of Darwinism. It can be used to justify any behavior. I have even heard evolution used as a justification / explanation for rape. So, please spare me your attempt to drag humans down to the lowest behavior level of animals.


27 posted on 04/16/2008 8:21:35 PM PDT by dschapin
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To: Hildy

You need to read the whole article. It doesn’t twist anything at all but instead makes some very accurate observations. The only poster having problems with the article is an evolutionist who simply doesn’t expect human beings to behave any differently than animals. A big problem since animals have no problem with killing, rape, and many other unacceptible behaviors.


28 posted on 04/16/2008 8:25:29 PM PDT by dschapin
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To: babble-on
You wrote: How about the article’s statement that Obama is promoting pedophilia?

Really, its time to stop posting WND articles, they are just so ridiculous.

Agreed. I'm not an Obama supporter, obviously, but this is so low and disgusting.

Barak Obama said:

Look, I got two daughters – 9 years old and 6 years old. I am going to teach them first about values and morals, but if they make a mistake, I don't want them punished with a baby. I don't want them punished with an STD at age 16, so it doesn't make sense to not give them information.

If that means that his 9 and 6 year olds know what sex, contraception, disease and abortion mean, then I'm guilty of the same. Many parents are.

My once-9 year olds certainly knew what abortion was at that age, and knew about sex, and contraception were long before that. They knew our views on them, too.

Catholic believe that children are a blessing from God within marriage. That isn't something you wait to share until they are teenagers. It's something you live and model.

Education and instilling morals is not a one-shot thing, it is a continual process of giving information, answering questions, and giving your views. I have given frank, factual information to my kids for years and I am not a grandmother yet. Information is not the enemy.

FTA: I have never known or heard of a father, diligent or absentee, liberal or conservative, who pondered aloud that his 9-year-old daughter in three short years might have unprotected consensual sex, so we must make contraceptives and abortion available to her.

Aloud? Maybe, maybe not. Most fathers aren't running for office, making their positions known, though.

But why the focus on "father"? Are father supposed to be absent from this sort of thing? Are they supposed to walk away or not care? And you'll have to show me a parent who, upon hearing of a pregnant teenager somewhere, didn't say "There but for grace". It occasionally happens in even the very best families.

Actually, I have friends who had this problem with their then 13 year old, about 7 years ago, so I have heard it aloud. I've heard the anguish in their voice when their daughter ran away with an older boy she met on the internet and had "relations" before they could find her.

Such a father would be creepy, close to a pedophilia promoter.

That's lower than anything I've seen lately and is a disgusting comment by an obviously sick, tortured mind. The person who wrote that seems to have issues.

I'm not an Obama supporter, as I said before, but no parent wants their child to suffer early sexual experiences or pregnancy or disease.

Again, is there some reason fathers are not supposed to care? Is there something that makes them automatically suspect of being a pedophile when they do?

29 posted on 04/16/2008 8:40:37 PM PDT by mountainbunny
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To: dschapin

You haven’t been around much. Human beings all over the planet engage in voluntary sexual activity beginning around the time of puberty. Of course you don’t have to approve of that, they’ll do it anyway.


30 posted on 04/16/2008 8:49:55 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: Rudder

Sure there will always be some people who will do that. But isn’t having sex at 12 condemned in virtually all societies except for those societies (typically patriarchical and often polygamous) which marry off young girls at a very early age.


31 posted on 04/16/2008 8:55:08 PM PDT by dschapin
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To: Claud
I guess these behaviors should be normalized for humans as well?

There are a whole lot things that human beings do that you would not like---but they do them despite your disapproval. What "animal" has been performing clitorectomy routinely on its female offspring for a thousand years? It's not aadvarks. What animal instituted the practice of no sex before marriage only a few hundred years ago? Before that, following the betrothal system, pregnancy came before marriage.

Normal human beings are weirder than you would like to consider.

32 posted on 04/16/2008 9:01:29 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: dschapin
But isn’t having sex at 12 condemned in virtually all societies except for those societies (typically patriarchical and often polygamous) which marry off young girls at a very early age.

Yes, you're correct---societies, in an effort to modify normal human behavior, institute a variety of means of control, including laws and social disapproval. They wouldn't have to do that if human beings would just straighten up and behave "normally" would they?

33 posted on 04/16/2008 9:09:09 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: Rudder

Normal is defined by the actions and beliefs of the group. For example, there will always be some serial killers in the human population. However, we don’t consider their behavior to be normal and society makes it clear that such behavior is wrong and will be punished. As to Margaret Mead and her study of the Samoans, Derek Freemans work seems to strongly suggest that she was either decieved by her sources or simply published a fraudulent work. http://www.stpt.usf.edu/~jsokolov/314mead1.htm


34 posted on 04/16/2008 9:23:21 PM PDT by dschapin
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To: Rudder
"Tell that to Margaret Mead."

A lot of Margaret Mead's stuff was lies.

35 posted on 04/16/2008 9:40:54 PM PDT by Irene Adler (')
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To: Rudder
"They wouldn't have to do that if human beings would just straighten up and behave "normally" would they?"

Humanity as a whole can't just "straighten up" due to the existence of sin in the world. This will not change until our Savior comes again. That does not mean that there is no right and wrong.

36 posted on 04/16/2008 9:42:58 PM PDT by Irene Adler (')
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To: dschapin
Normal is defined by the actions and beliefs of the group.

That depends. Some groups have no beliefs---animals, of course. Then, in human beings, it depends upon what group---those who strive to change human behavior, those who defy the controlling group, but themselves constitute a group. Take homosexuality, for an example, which group defines normality? Take cigarette smoking---which group defines normality?

37 posted on 04/16/2008 9:43:19 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: Rudder

That is why eventually I define normal by the Bible and as you probably guessed I am not a big fan of social anthropology (though I apologize for being a bit of a jerk to you in my first post). But even on a sherely scientiffic basis many of the biggest claims by social anthropologists have been suspect at best.


38 posted on 04/16/2008 9:47:53 PM PDT by dschapin
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To: Irene Adler
That does not mean that there is no right and wrong.

You are right, or should I say not wrong?

But,even that depends upon who gets to say what is right or wrong, and mankind has been struggling with that one since the Beginning.

39 posted on 04/16/2008 9:49:03 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: dschapin
I apologize for being a bit of a jerk to you in my first post...

Thanks, but I hold similar beliefs myself so I understand. It's that I've spent a career dealing with abnormal people and have been fully exposed to the underside of the human condition. We have a saying in my business: "We are all furry little beasts wearing human suits."

40 posted on 04/16/2008 9:58:00 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: Rudder
"I know there are 12-year-olds in the world having sex. But it's not normal behavior."

That is an erroneous statement as it stands. But it depends upon how normal is defined. It's normal from a biological point of view for pubertal mammals to have sex. Other points of view (religious, parental, etc.) may disagree.

Absolutely correct. There is no "normal." It's an illusion. The freest, most prosperous, productive civilzations in most of our history have been ones that declared a Judeo-Christian ethic. The most barbaric and cruel societies, where innocents including children are sacrificed, where females are supressed to sub-human status, where slavery either by law or by socialism, is okay -- not a one of them declares the Judeo Christian ethic.

Our Judeo-Christian foundation is the key that we turn and open the door to our lives, progress, pursuit, and freedom. When we allow its tenets to be rejected, we suffer the consequences and it should come as no surprise. It isn't as if there haven't been plenty of examples over the centuries.

41 posted on 04/16/2008 9:58:01 PM PDT by Finny (Democrats play Big Mommies. Liberal Republicans play Big Daddies. Conservatives are the adults.)
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To: Finny
Our Judeo-Christian foundation... has surely benefited Mankind, and is often left out of the equation in debates like these. Humans can be absolutely terrible in their "normal" state, but they also can be absolutely enlightened in their vision and ideals. This duality has always been at the root of the Judeo-Christian religions.
42 posted on 04/16/2008 10:12:07 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: Rudder

To equate smoking cigarettes with homosexuality shows me the depth of your intellect.

I don’t smoke, but posts like yours make smoking seem attractive, if only for the “GET STUFFED” quotient.


43 posted on 04/16/2008 10:53:03 PM PDT by Don W (To write with a broken pencil is pointless.)
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To: Don W
To equate smoking cigarettes with homosexuality shows me the depth of your intellect.

My apologies if you're gay, no offense intended.

44 posted on 04/16/2008 11:55:58 PM PDT by Rudder (Klinton-Kool-Aid FReepers prefer spectacle over victory.)
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To: Rudder

Yeah, right, okay.

If you had a brain cell, it would be quite lonely.

Good day.


45 posted on 04/17/2008 3:15:50 AM PDT by Don W (To write with a broken pencil is pointless.)
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To: wagglebee
Pinged from Terri Dailies

8mm


46 posted on 04/17/2008 4:59:44 AM PDT by 8mmMauser (Jezu ufam tobie...Jesus I trust in Thee)
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To: Hildy
This article proves what I was trying to say to you on the last thread about the way the pro-life movement twists things to serve their purpose. It doesn’t work and it turns the majority of people off.

I am totally at a loss as to what it is in this commentary that you disagree with.

But if it’s another Hildy’s a horrible person comment, save it.

I have NEVER said that you are a horrible person. I have always been very open about the areas where I disagree with you; however, I can see where this may have at times come across as being a personal attack, if this is the case then I sincerely apologize.

47 posted on 04/17/2008 5:01:30 AM PDT by wagglebee ("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)
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To: babble-on
It seems Obama IS promoting pedophilia.

What I was saying was that my daughters are 9 and 6. And so if, at the age of 12 or 13, they made what I would consider to be a mistake, in having sex or unprotected sex, and ended up getting pregnant...

To say, "...what I would consider to be a mistake..." implies two things:

Others could validly consider it NOT to be a mistake.

It would be an error, but not an evil, in his opinion if his 12 year old daughter had sex with some guy.

How does this NOT give tacit consent men having sex with 12 year olds? His refusal to judge condones the behavior - statutory rape in most states.

48 posted on 04/17/2008 5:51:16 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Let's win Congress - the Presidency is lost!)
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To: Rudder
There are a whole lot things that human beings do that you would not like---but they do them despite your disapproval.

Really? I hadn't noticed! Shucks...I must be one of those poor naive religious folks.

You seem to be adopting the idea--and correct me if I'm wrong--that "normal" is defined by what actually occurs in human populations. So if people do it...then it must be normal.

But is that really accurate? So if, say, a culture evolves that promotes statutory rape...then that behavior is normal?

There isn't a society alive that works that way though...every society has a system of "ought". Though of course there are people that go against that system, the system doesn't go away because of those who buck it. And I've never heard of any culture, frankly, that basis said system on what it views in the animal kingdom.

49 posted on 04/17/2008 6:26:16 AM PDT by Claud
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To: wagglebee

If you listen carefully to his answer,

you’ll hear that he wanted to make sure that he didn’t say that having sex at 12 or 13 was a mistake, but qualified it with “unprotected”.

Obama’s stated, verbalized opinion is that it would be OK, even for his daughters, to have “protected” sex at 12 or 13. To state otherwise would probably be too judgemental for the lefties.

Also notice, conspicuously absent from his response - the “A” word - ADOPTION.


50 posted on 04/17/2008 6:28:59 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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