Posted on 04/19/2008 10:57:36 AM PDT by kiriath_jearim
Ohio State University's ROTC cadets have ended the decades-long practice of combat training with mock rifles on the main campus because of public edginess in the wake of the Virginia Tech shootings, officials said.
Since the decision was made a couple of weeks ago, tactical training with rubber replicas of an M-16 rifle has been moved indoors, or cadets have trained without rifles, said Navy Capt. Steven Noce, who heads the university's ROTC program.
The tactical training, typically conducted around the ROTC building near Ohio Stadium, has generated a few calls to police from concerned people in the past year, Noce said. A year ago this week, a gunman at Virginia Tech killed 32 people.
"We just don't want any more public concern, and we're just trying to figure out a better way to do business," Noce said, noting that OSU had not asked for the change.
Officials initially responded to concerns by changing the mock rifles -- which the ROTC calls "rubber ducks" -- from black to blue, and they might eventually be made orange, Noce said. The blue ones were still too realistic in certain light, he said.
"It scared people because they didn't quite understand what (the cadets) were doing," Noce said. "They look like a real rifle. When you see these rifles, you think they're the real deal."
Although the mock guns have been eliminated from outdoor tactical training, which simulates combat situations, the ROTC will drill with the guns on campus, officials said.
"Those kids have been drilling with those things for decades," said Charles Smith, a political-science academic adviser who heard about the decision from an ROTC student he knows. "They were making them point their fingers, and apparently one picked up a stick."
Because the ROTC students train in battle-dress uniforms, "it's real obvious who these people are," Smith said.
ROTC cadet Andrew Roush, 22, said he has seen double takes when he's carrying the rubber duck, but he doesn't think the mock guns have ever caused a panic.
"They'll give that look over their shoulder that they noticed you," said Roush, a criminology major from Urbana. "I've never seen anybody alarmed.
"They're an important tool. I think they enhance the training, but without them, the training can still go on."
A lot of the people who come onto campus aren't students and have no idea what ROTC is, said cadet Robin Tullercash, 25, of New Hampshire.
"If people feel unsafe, then we should do everything in our power to make them feel safe," said Tullercash, a language major studying Arabic who plans a career in military intelligence. "Seeing a bunch of people with weapons, I can understand that they'd be scared."
OSU Police Chief Paul Denton said none of the public concerns over the training had been brought to his attention, but those concerns didn't surprise him: Sometimes the training for his officers generates calls asking what's going on, he said.
The program will decide in the next few weeks where the on-campus, outdoor training should be held, Noce said. One option is to solely use university agricultural land west of Rt. 315 and north of Lane Avenue.
Training to defend your stupid ass, maybe? What idiots.
Maybe they need to put up warning signs that say “CAUTION-toy guns being displayed by promising young men and women who may someday lay down their lives to protect the fantasy bubble you hope to live out the rest of your meaningless, self-centered lives in.”
This same sort of politically correct silliness 40 years ago prompted me to quit Army ROTC and join the Marine Corps.
Oh, so now terrorists are going around with rubber rifles and ROTC uniforms. I guess that’ll make them stand out, make it easier to spot.
/s/off
I do believe that the police should take every single complaining ninnie down to the ROTC training grounds and SHOW THEM WHAT THE CADETS ARE DOING TO PROTECT THEIR DUMB BUTTS!!!
Sorry about the shouting but it makes me so damned mad that a few stupid people can screw it up for the rest of us.
noted: good tag.
I hear the Army plans to ban rifles from basic training as the weapons have the potential to scare recruits. All weapons training - or any mention of weapons at all is to be delayed until AIT.
The pussification of America continues apace, with “schools” leading the way, as always.
I hope the ROTC don’t use their fingers and pretend to shoot. We had a few 6 year olds get suspended for that.
You want to really shout? Princeton University won't allow the POLICE, not rent a cops, to carry guns on campus. The university feels it makes the officers too unapproachable to the students.
When I read this, I thought the entire article was a joke..
Sadly, it doesn't appear to be..
Better yet: Any student that complains about the ROTC drills has now volunteered for four years of ROTC, followed by at least one tour in a war zone! LOL
And under that, in very small letters, the following disclaimer:
"Note: There may be real bad guys carrying real guns here, but we can't and won't do anything to stop them, or allow you to defend yourself.
"We are committed to you feeling safe on our campus."
Pussification of America continues apace.
Very well stated...
"If people feel unsafe, then we should do everything in our power to make them feel safe," said Tullercash, a language major studying Arabic who plans a career in military intelligence. "Seeing a bunch of people with weapons, I can understand that they'd be scared."
Although with ROTC officers and aspiring cadets being all too willing to change their training to appease the ignorant masses, instead of educating the idiots and telling them to STFU, the whole program may slowly die off...
LFOD...
Perhaps if they allowed the cadets to practice with real rifles and live ammo it might scare some psycho out of going on a spree.
My high school ROTC drilled with M1 Garands. We’ve sure come a long way haven’t we.
Back in the ‘80’s, the “combat cadets” had nothing but contempt for fake weapons. It is the difference between “militarism”, which is the fascination with uniforms and drill & ceremonies; vs. “militancy”, which is learning the art of war.
There are always “pretty boys”, cadets who are thrilled with shiny boots and crisp uniforms. But the majority are deadly serious in wanting to learn how to lead others, and in accomplishing their missions. It is this latter group that are entrusted with millions of dollars of equipment and the lives of our nation’s sons and daughters.
Shiny boots and crisp uniforms impress civilians in peacetime. And that is where they should remain in wartime—still impressing civilians, in safety, in the rear.
They didn’t do that at Georgia Tech. I attended a rememberance ceremony just Thursday for recently deceased GT people and the honor guard was sporting 1903A3s.
When I was in the military before going overseas I was delegated to Funeral Detail. We used Garands, but shooting blanks without the blank adapter meant having to cycle the bolt with your palm....in this case, really that hurts until you get a callous on your palm....hmmmmmmmm seems like my daddy told me something about this before????
Better off carrying real rifles, unloaded.
But have a pair of mags in pouches, just in case.
As for callouses I wouldn't know. I grew up a liar.
Those are the people that scare me the most. We had the Florida National Guard deployed when the three hurricanes hit in a row. Brave men and women in full gear in the hot sun, guarding our intersections and directing traffic. They had their M-16's slung. One hysterical lady called into the radio station to say how much it scared her. Scared her??? Lady, they're guarding you for cryin' out loud. God bless them!
Famous last words
Jan 31, 2006 - - - Virginia Tech spokesman Larry Hincker was happy to hear the bill (Virginia House Bill 1572, which would have allowed students and faculty with permits to carry concealed on campus) was defeated. "I'm sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly's actions because this will help parents, students, faculty and visitors feel safe on our campus."
Perhaps if they practiced drill carrying giant purple dildos the anti gun nuts would get a warm fuzzy feeling.
Jeez!
Oh, so now terrorists are going around with rubber rifles and ROTC uniforms. I guess that’ll make them stand out, make it easier to spot.
No, but there might be terrorists mixing paint to match the color of the rubber rifles, just so they would be ignored until they started something.
I love those things!
For what it's worth -
I may own one of the very first "black guns", which was also an "assault rifle" at one time.
It's a 1776 Belgian musket (pattern for America's first official issue long gun).
The guy who had it before me didn't realize that they were issued painted black so he started stripping the color off...leaving me with little choice but to go ahead and finish it.
All the terrorists would have to do is put a red plastic thing in the barrel of their rifles - everybody would think they’re fake ...
Great minds think alike. I was thinking the same thing!
Good point...
I was a whole lot more scared of my Drill Sergeant than of the rifle I carried.
Thus illustrating the plain but distressing fact that it is impossible to underestimate the intelligence of te general public.
One will be frightened of a USMC Drill Instructor but an Army Drill Sergeant, never.
Ill show you how much things have changed. When I was in JROTC in a Chicago High School from 1966-1968, we had an arsenal of 44 M-1 rifles, 2 BAR’s, one M-3 SMG, 5 M-1 carbines and 5 M1911A-1 .45 pistols in the basement. The drill team would come in at 0600 to practice, and the senior ROTC instructor, an SF E-7 would flip the arms rack keys to the cadet col. and go have a cup of coffee while wwe drilled with the M-1’s’s. Similar scenes were repeated even at INNER CITY ROTC detachments like Englewood and Marshall, and there were NO untoward incidents. Discipline was rigourously enforced by our cadet col., dropping for push-ups and slaps upside the head if you got out of line and horseplayed with these real weapons...
Flash forward to today. Chicago is ruled by a gun grabbing tyrant of a mayor named Richard M. Daley, who is wholly unlike his Dad, Richard J. The guns are long gone and it is inconcievable that we can do today what was done 40 years ago. The difference is that back than most every kid I knew had a dad in the home. That is the crucial difference and you can thank LBJ’s welfare state and the DemocRATS for the change.
I'd like to have two armies: one for display, with lovely guns, tanks, little soldiers, fanfares, staffs, distinguished and doddering generals, and dear little regimental officers, an army that would be shown for a modest fee on every fairground in the country.
The other would be the real one, composed entirely of young enthusiasts in camouflage battledress, who would not be put on display but for whom all sorts of tricks would be taught. That's the army in which I should like to fight.
Jean *Larteguy* Osty, Les Centurions, 1960
My understanding is that the policy you describe is under consideration by the Air Force, which since 2005 has been issuing a plastic training rifle for Airman Basic training, lessening security concerns for the USAF property officers.
But you can bet that Dept of the Army will be watching real close to see how the USAF plans- which include the possible use of electronic simulators instead of live fiire on outdoor ranges- work. Or don't.
Sonner or later the situation will come down to this: the only service that teaches recruits (and the troops, for that matter) that their job involves the use of real weapons firing live ammunition to kill living people will be the Marine Corps.
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