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American Arrested as Nuclear Spy for Israel
Reuters ^ | 4/22/08 | Randall Mikkelsen

Posted on 04/22/2008 12:07:37 PM PDT by anymouse

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To: Dog Gone

Let’s see you last a day in a tough prison (Pollard has been in the worst) let alone 5 years before you talk tough.


41 posted on 04/23/2008 4:23:17 PM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: freedomrings69

I just have a hunch you’re Jewish and wouldn’t mind Israel having all our secrets.

Maybe I’m wrong about that, but the US should be in complete charge of what technology we share with allies. Because once it’s gone, it’s gone, and we can’t control our enemies stealing it from our allies.

What would you sentence someone to if they gave detailed plans to Iran on how to build a nuclear bomb? A couple years?


42 posted on 04/23/2008 4:27:42 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: Dog Gone

I feel the same for someone stealing secrets for Israel that I would if they stole secrets for Great Britain, South Korea, Taiwan etc. Maybe your problem is that you cannot realize Israel is an ally. Comparing stealing secrets for Iran and Israel shows that you lack understanding on this issue.


43 posted on 04/23/2008 6:13:49 PM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: freedomrings69

You are so full of crap. Really.

You think it’s okay to steal for friends who prove they are not friends by stealing from us.

It’s not.

You are no patriot. You are a danger to our republic.


44 posted on 04/23/2008 6:19:51 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: freedomrings69

If Dershowitz officially represented Pollard at trial, that’s news to me. I believe Pollard’s attorney at trial was named Hibey.

Later, on appeal, Ted Olsen (husband of the late conservative attorney and writer Barbara Olsen), who later became Solicitor General under W, represented Pollard. It turned out that Pollard’s conviction would have been overturned and he would have had a new trial had not Ruth Bader Ginsberg ruled against him on a procedural matter on a DC Circuit 3-judge panel back in the late 80s or early 90s.

Dershowitz’s role in the case was limited to commentator and pundit, to the best of my knowledge.

Please correct me if I’m mistaken.


45 posted on 04/23/2008 8:03:15 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: Dog Gone

Let’s try this one more time and maybe you can understand. Allies spy on each other. South Korea spies on us, Taiwan spies on us and Israel spied on us. Frankly I can understand why those nations do since to varying degrees their survival is in the balance and it is vital for them to know what we are doing that may affect their survival.

Now do I condone Americans who help them for reasons of money or ideology? The answer is no, I say they should be prosecuted as Pollard was. Do I think what they did is less serious than spying for an enemy? Yes, it is obvious and if you cannot grasp that concept, I probably cannot help you. Just as we don’t have a death penalty for assaulting someone, while we do consider it a serious crime it is not in the same class as murder. We have intermediate punishments for less serious crimes.

You may not like that fact but it is a fact. And we have accepted it as a society in the practice of sentencing those who have spied for allies much less seriously than those who spied for enemies. Pollard is a lone exception as has been demonstrated. Do you feel all the others should have been sentenced much more harshly? Perhaps you do. Curiously you only mention Pollard but never complain about all those others who served two years or less for spying for allies.


46 posted on 04/23/2008 9:56:22 PM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: justiceseeker93

Dershowitz did get involved in his appeal. I don’t know exactly what his role was and whether he worked for Pollard at the same time as Olsen or prior to Ted Olsen getting involved. If memory serves me, Olsen was hired by the Israeli government to represent Pollard.


47 posted on 04/23/2008 9:58:01 PM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: freedomrings69

FYI, the Rosenbergs were electrocuted, not hanged, about a year before Pollard was born.

The US and Israel as allies share all kinds of secrets. However, it’s up to the governments to decide what they will and will not share. It’s not up to Pollard or Kadish.

I can’t understand why anyone convicted of espionage shouldn’t spend the rest of his/her life in prison.


48 posted on 04/23/2008 10:22:57 PM PDT by EDINVA (Proud American for 23,062 days.... and counting!)
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To: freedomrings69
Pollard is a lone exception as has been demonstrated.

We're not exactly at war with Russia. Have you checked the sentence given to Robert Hannsen?

49 posted on 04/24/2008 9:55:48 AM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: justiceseeker93
Why shouldn't Pollard be let go by now? I suggest he not be pardoned, but that his sentence be commuted to time served (which is now more than twenty years, much longer than sentences in other cases involving espionage on behalf of allies.)

You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the penalties handed out to Americans who steal classified information and give it to someone else. It has nothing to do with who receives the information and more to do with the importance of the information itself. Pollard received a life sentence because of what information was compromised. According to a classified memorandum written for the trial judge by then-Secretary of Defense Caspar Weinberger, Pollard’s actions amounted to treason. “It is difficult for me…to conceive of a greater harm to national security,” Weinberger wrote.

We have had others who have spied on behalf of Israel, e.g., Larry Franklin, who were not sentenced to life. And there have been other spies like Aldrich Ames and John Walker who received life sentences. To suggest that Pollard was unfairly singled out in terms of punishment is nonsense. Why do you believe that to be the case?

50 posted on 04/24/2008 10:07:05 AM PDT by kabar
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To: freedomrings69

The Rosenbergs worked for an ally nation. The Soviet Union was our ally in WW II. /end short history lesson


51 posted on 04/24/2008 10:13:14 AM PDT by bvw
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To: freedomrings69
The USA had a spy in Israel who was captured at the same time

Do you have any facts to back up that assertion?

I do find it interesting that the Jerusalem City council passed a resolution naming a square for Pollard [an American citizen and spy] just before Bush's visit to Israel. Imagine what the reaction would be in Israel if Washington DC passed a resolution renaiming a square in DC after an Israeli imprisoned for spying on Israel. Pollard is a hero to many in Israel.

Photo Essay: Main Jerusalem Square Renamed 'Freedom for Pollard'

52 posted on 04/24/2008 10:16:44 AM PDT by kabar
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To: bvw

The Rosenbergs may have worked for an “ally” nation during WWII, but continued their espionage activity well into the Cold War period by which time the Soviets had unquestionably become an enemy and threat to the US. And the magnitude of that threat was greatly enhanced by the information passed to the Soviets by the Rosenbergs and others, which facilitated the Soviets’ building of their first atomic bomb.


53 posted on 04/24/2008 11:07:46 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: kabar
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the penalties handed out to Americans who steal classified information and and giver it to someone else. It has nothing to do with who receives the information and more to do with the importance of the information itself.

I'd suggest you read the espionage statutes and the case law that has arisen from them. I would respectfully suggest that both who recieves the information and the importance of the information itself should be and have been important factors in a damage estimate in such cases.

As for Weinberger's memorandum in the Pollard case, perhaps the time will soon come when it will be declassified so we will be better able to evaluate it in terms of accuracy.

Meanwhile, I do have a suspicion that the late, black Carter-appointed judge did have an anti-Israel bias - considering his skin color (blacks are statistically far more likely to harbor antisemitic and anti-Israel attitudes than whites) and the biases of the man who appointed him to the federal bench.

54 posted on 04/24/2008 11:30:27 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: Dog Gone

Hansen’s spying goes back to the 1970s and the heart of the cold war. Again that is not an accurate analogy.


55 posted on 04/24/2008 11:48:16 AM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: kabar

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE0D61231F93BA15750C0A961948260&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

See the above, a Republican Senator disclosed the American procuring of a spy within Israel.

I think the Israelis are not being smart about a high profile honor for Pollard in conjunction with Bush’s visit.


56 posted on 04/24/2008 11:53:05 AM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: bvw

Maybe the end of a short attention span. The Rosenbergs helped Stalin obtain a nuclear bomb after world war 2 was over and the cold war was on. That was threatening the life of every American. Clearly a totally different case.


57 posted on 04/24/2008 11:56:12 AM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: justiceseeker93
I'd suggest you read the espionage statutes and the case law that has arisen from them. I would respectfully suggest that both who recieves the information and the importance of the information itself should be and have been important factors in a damage estimate in such cases.

I am sure those factors were taken into consideration by the jury and the judge when Pollard was tried and sentenced. Having just been on a jury involving a murder case, I have confidence in our judicial system.

As for Weinberger's memorandum in the Pollard case, perhaps the time will soon come when it will be declassified so we will be better able to evaluate it in terms of accuracy.

Are you questioning the statement or its factual accuracy?

Meanwhile, I do have a suspicion that the late, black Carter-appointed judge did have an anti-Israel bias - considering his skin color (blacks are statistically far more likely to harbor antisemitic and anti-Israel attitudes than whites) and the biases of the man who appointed him to the federal bench.

Baloney. Pollard was a U.S. Navy intelligence analyst who gave highly classified information to a foreign government. In many ways due to the sensitivity of his position, he is similar to Ames, Hanssen, Brian Reagan, etc. who also received life sentences. Pollard's wife only got 5 years. Defending Pollard is defending the indefensible. His sentencing was not the result of anti-semitism or anti-Israel bias. Pollard does not deserve the hero status he currently enjoys in Israel.

58 posted on 04/24/2008 11:59:06 AM PDT by kabar
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To: freedomrings69

Unconfirmed and unsubstantiated.


59 posted on 04/24/2008 12:05:44 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

You notice that the complaints against Durenberger were all of the sort that he should not have disclosed the info not that his info was bogus. You will never get official disclosure of such a fact but it demonstrates that more than likely the spying was going both ways.


60 posted on 04/24/2008 12:10:02 PM PDT by freedomrings69
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