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American Arrested as Nuclear Spy for Israel
Reuters ^ | 4/22/08 | Randall Mikkelsen

Posted on 04/22/2008 12:07:37 PM PDT by anymouse

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To: freedomrings69

The Rosenbergs worked for an ally nation. The Soviet Union was our ally in WW II. /end short history lesson


51 posted on 04/24/2008 10:13:14 AM PDT by bvw
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To: freedomrings69
The USA had a spy in Israel who was captured at the same time

Do you have any facts to back up that assertion?

I do find it interesting that the Jerusalem City council passed a resolution naming a square for Pollard [an American citizen and spy] just before Bush's visit to Israel. Imagine what the reaction would be in Israel if Washington DC passed a resolution renaiming a square in DC after an Israeli imprisoned for spying on Israel. Pollard is a hero to many in Israel.

Photo Essay: Main Jerusalem Square Renamed 'Freedom for Pollard'

52 posted on 04/24/2008 10:16:44 AM PDT by kabar
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To: bvw

The Rosenbergs may have worked for an “ally” nation during WWII, but continued their espionage activity well into the Cold War period by which time the Soviets had unquestionably become an enemy and threat to the US. And the magnitude of that threat was greatly enhanced by the information passed to the Soviets by the Rosenbergs and others, which facilitated the Soviets’ building of their first atomic bomb.


53 posted on 04/24/2008 11:07:46 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: kabar
You seem to have a basic misunderstanding of the penalties handed out to Americans who steal classified information and and giver it to someone else. It has nothing to do with who receives the information and more to do with the importance of the information itself.

I'd suggest you read the espionage statutes and the case law that has arisen from them. I would respectfully suggest that both who recieves the information and the importance of the information itself should be and have been important factors in a damage estimate in such cases.

As for Weinberger's memorandum in the Pollard case, perhaps the time will soon come when it will be declassified so we will be better able to evaluate it in terms of accuracy.

Meanwhile, I do have a suspicion that the late, black Carter-appointed judge did have an anti-Israel bias - considering his skin color (blacks are statistically far more likely to harbor antisemitic and anti-Israel attitudes than whites) and the biases of the man who appointed him to the federal bench.

54 posted on 04/24/2008 11:30:27 AM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: Dog Gone

Hansen’s spying goes back to the 1970s and the heart of the cold war. Again that is not an accurate analogy.


55 posted on 04/24/2008 11:48:16 AM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: kabar

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE0D61231F93BA15750C0A961948260&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

See the above, a Republican Senator disclosed the American procuring of a spy within Israel.

I think the Israelis are not being smart about a high profile honor for Pollard in conjunction with Bush’s visit.


56 posted on 04/24/2008 11:53:05 AM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: bvw

Maybe the end of a short attention span. The Rosenbergs helped Stalin obtain a nuclear bomb after world war 2 was over and the cold war was on. That was threatening the life of every American. Clearly a totally different case.


57 posted on 04/24/2008 11:56:12 AM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: justiceseeker93
I'd suggest you read the espionage statutes and the case law that has arisen from them. I would respectfully suggest that both who recieves the information and the importance of the information itself should be and have been important factors in a damage estimate in such cases.

I am sure those factors were taken into consideration by the jury and the judge when Pollard was tried and sentenced. Having just been on a jury involving a murder case, I have confidence in our judicial system.

As for Weinberger's memorandum in the Pollard case, perhaps the time will soon come when it will be declassified so we will be better able to evaluate it in terms of accuracy.

Are you questioning the statement or its factual accuracy?

Meanwhile, I do have a suspicion that the late, black Carter-appointed judge did have an anti-Israel bias - considering his skin color (blacks are statistically far more likely to harbor antisemitic and anti-Israel attitudes than whites) and the biases of the man who appointed him to the federal bench.

Baloney. Pollard was a U.S. Navy intelligence analyst who gave highly classified information to a foreign government. In many ways due to the sensitivity of his position, he is similar to Ames, Hanssen, Brian Reagan, etc. who also received life sentences. Pollard's wife only got 5 years. Defending Pollard is defending the indefensible. His sentencing was not the result of anti-semitism or anti-Israel bias. Pollard does not deserve the hero status he currently enjoys in Israel.

58 posted on 04/24/2008 11:59:06 AM PDT by kabar
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To: freedomrings69

Unconfirmed and unsubstantiated.


59 posted on 04/24/2008 12:05:44 PM PDT by kabar
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To: kabar

You notice that the complaints against Durenberger were all of the sort that he should not have disclosed the info not that his info was bogus. You will never get official disclosure of such a fact but it demonstrates that more than likely the spying was going both ways.


60 posted on 04/24/2008 12:10:02 PM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: freedomrings69
Pure conjecture. As someone who has worked for the USG for 36 years, we don't as a matter of policy spy on our close allies.

Although not the most objective of sources, this is a pretty good synopsis of the Pollard case, pro and con.

It is interesting that the government of Benjamin Netanyahu admitted that Pollard had worked for Israeli intelligence and granted him citizenship. And that the USG charged Pollard with stealing 360 cubic feet of classified secrets and Pollard confessed to stealing classifed information two to three times a day, three to four days a week.

61 posted on 04/24/2008 12:17:43 PM PDT by kabar
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To: anymouse

well this just proves that Pollard should serve out his entire sentence.


62 posted on 04/24/2008 12:26:13 PM PDT by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: kabar
Having just been on a jury involving a murder case, I have confidence in our judicial system.

First of all, there is more than one "judicial system" in the country. Every state has its own, consisting several levels of courts. Then the federal government has its system, with 96 districts, 12 circuits, and a SCOTUS. The mere fact that you did sit on a jury in one case and that case may have gone well does not mean that there aren't instances of injustice sometimes perpetrated, especially when you cansider the massive numbers and variety of cases dealt with on all levels and jurisdictions, both criminal and civil.

Are you questioning [Weinberger's] statement or its factual accuracy?

Until such time as Weinberger's memorandum is declassified and made available for public scrutiny, it is perfectly reasonable to question its accuracy, because we don't know its content. Furthermore, we don't even know if Weinberger himself wrote it (probably not) or even approved of it before it went to the court.

Defending Pollard is defending the indefensible.

I am not "defending" Pollard. I do not wish him to receive a pardon, but am suggesting only that his sentence be commuted to time served, becuase I believe that a life sentence in his case was disproportionately harsh.

In many ways, due to the sensitivity of his position, he is similar to Ames, Hannsen [sic], Brian Reagan, etc., who also received life sentences.

As for Ames and Hansen, yes, they shared with Pollard a position with a high level of public trust. But, IIRC, Ames and Hansen had spied for the Soviet Union. That, in general, represents a much higher level of danger to national security than spying for Israel. I am not familiar at all with the Brian Reagan case.

63 posted on 04/24/2008 2:31:30 PM PDT by justiceseeker93
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To: justiceseeker93

http://cicentre.com/Documents/DOC_Brian_Patrick_Regan_Death_Penalty_Notification.htm

Again their case is flawed. Regan (not Reagan) spied for Iraq and Lybia, hardly in the same class as Israel. If they were serious about making their case, they would find us someone who spied for an ally, such as Taiwan, South Korea, etc. who was put in prison for life. Instead they keep coming up with people who spied for enemies. They use the Rosenbergs, Hansen, Ames, etc. Find me the guy who has been in prison for over 20 years for spying for Canada and I will concede defeat.


64 posted on 04/24/2008 2:43:21 PM PDT by freedomrings69
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To: justiceseeker93
Until such time as Weinberger's memorandum is declassified and made available for public scrutiny, it is perfectly reasonable to question its accuracy, because we don't know its content.

I will trust the USG and Weinberger over Pollard.

I am not "defending" Pollard. I do not wish him to receive a pardon, but am suggesting only that his sentence be commuted to time served, becuase I believe that a life sentence in his case was disproportionately harsh.

Pollard's supporters in the United States also routinely request that he be pardoned. President Clinton reportedly considered a pardon, but defense and intelligence agency officials have vigorously opposed the idea. At the end of Clinton's term, the issue was again raised and Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL), chairman of the Senate's Select Committee on Intelligence, along with a majority of senators argued against a pardon. "Mr. Pollard is a convicted spy who put our national security at risk and endangered the lives of our intelligence officers," Shelby said. “There not terms strong enough to express my belief that Mr. Pollard should serve every minute of his sentence.

As for Ames and Hansen, yes, they shared with Pollard a position with a high level of public trust. But, IIRC, Ames and Hansen had spied for the Soviet Union. That, in general, represents a much higher level of danger to national security than spying for Israel.

The agent in charge of counterintelligence for the Naval Investigative Service who caught Pollard has said that he was involved in illegal activities to help countries besides Israel. Ron Olive wrote that Pollard confessed that before he spied for Israel, he passed classified information to South Africa, his civilian financial advisers and a member of the Australian Royal Navy. He also admitted passing documents to Pakistan “in the hopes it would take him on as a spy.” Olive quotes Pollard during a debriefing after he pleaded guilty saying, “If I could see it, and touch it, you can assume I got it....My only limitation was what I couldn't carry.”

Before sentencing, and in violation of the plea agreement, Pollard and his wife Anne gave defiant media interviews in which they defended their spying, and attempted to rally American Jews to their cause. In a 60 Minutes interview, Anne said, “I feel my husband and I did what we were expected to do, and what our moral obligation was as Jews, what our moral obligation was as human beings, and I have no regrets about that.”

It has often been reported that Pollard’s life sentence was the most severe prison term ever given for spying for an ally, but agent Olive says this is untrue and notes that “espionage statutes do not differentiate between adversaries and allies.”

65 posted on 04/24/2008 4:14:13 PM PDT by kabar
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To: M. Espinola
"One has to really wonder how many nuclear weapons spies are lurking in America, sent in by Iran, the Wahhabist Saudis & al-Qaida?"

We should be wondering about it from time to time, IMO. But most people avoid uncomfortable thoughts--even those whose duties include such thinking.


66 posted on 04/25/2008 1:21:55 AM PDT by familyop
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To: freedomrings69
"threatening the life of every American"

That is an excellent point and one which good and established governments should have as a capital offense. Still, it is NOT one that the US Constitution would permit. What was the law in the states in which the Rosenbergs operated?

We tried them in the wrong venue, or we need a change in the Constitution.

The Federal government has too many criminal laws -- the criminal codes under Federal jurisdiction should be either to the state in which the Federal power or authority is exercised, or to a territorial legislative body and/or governor, or to a military tribunal.

67 posted on 04/25/2008 10:40:58 AM PDT by bvw
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