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On St George's Day, EU wipes England off map
The Telegraph ^ | 4/23/2008 | Robert Winnett

Posted on 04/23/2008 4:02:36 PM PDT by bruinbirdman

England has been wiped off a map of Europe drawn up by Brussels bureaucrats as part of a scheme that the Tories claim threatens to undermine the country's national identity.

The new European plan splits England into three zones that are joined with areas in other countries.

The "Manche" region covers part of southern England and northern France while the Atlantic region includes western parts of England, Portugal, Spain and Wales.

The North Sea region includes eastern England, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands and parts of Germany.

A copy of the map, which makes no reference to England or Britain, has even renamed the English Channel the "Channel Sea".

Each zone will have a "transnational regional assembly", although they will not have extensive powers. However, the zones are regarded as symbolically important by other countries.

German ministers claimed that the plan was about "underlying the goal of a united Europe" to "permanently overcome old borders" at a time when the "Constitution for Europe needs to regain momentum".

The Tories are drawing attention to the plan today, St George's Day. Eric Pickles, the shadow secretary of state for communities and local government, said: "We already knew that Gordon Brown had hoisted the white flag of surrender to the European constitution.

"Now the Labour government has been caught red-handed, conspiring with European bureaucrats to create a European super-state via the back door."

The disclosure of the European map comes as a YouGov poll commissioned by The Daily Telegraph showed that one third of people want England to have its own parliament.

Twenty per cent want England to be an independent country and for Britain to be broken up.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS:
So, which parts of Germany go to France, Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland?
1 posted on 04/23/2008 4:02:36 PM PDT by bruinbirdman
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To: bruinbirdman

They can try, but iron and clay don’t mix.


2 posted on 04/23/2008 4:04:53 PM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: bruinbirdman

Where’s Henry V when you need him?


3 posted on 04/23/2008 4:07:16 PM PDT by tanuki (u)
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To: tanuki

He was in favor of southern England and northern France being part of the same country.


4 posted on 04/23/2008 4:10:42 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin
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To: bruinbirdman
From reading all the comments at the end of the article (and there are many), it sounds like Brits are about ready to revolt against their own government, and justifiably so. Too damn bad they let that same government confiscate every weapon but butter knives and cap guns from them before they woke up. The migrant Muzzie rabble is better-armed than the indigenous citizenry.


5 posted on 04/23/2008 4:15:19 PM PDT by Viking2002 (I hope the AG pounds the Mann Act up Spitzer's ass with a sharp stick.)
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To: bruinbirdman

United with the Frog’s the frig-en Frog’s?


6 posted on 04/23/2008 4:15:19 PM PDT by Little Bill (Welcome to the Newly Socialist State of New Hampshire)
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To: bruinbirdman

Welcome to the EU. I heard this same thing in the 60’s when I was in college. Amazing how people don’t listen. One professor, when they weren’t all socialists, said that when England gives up the Monarchy, they are through.

We can’t join the new world order unless we give up our Constitution. That’s one way to stop us from joining Canada and Mexico. They won’t accept our Constitution, unless it’s changed radically. His suggestion was to never let out Constitution be changed...........it’s fine the way it is.


7 posted on 04/23/2008 4:15:35 PM PDT by RC2
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To: DeaconBenjamin
He was in favor of southern England and northern France being part of the same country.
They were -- England.
8 posted on 04/23/2008 4:15:42 PM PDT by JoeA (JoeA / Diesel is the future)
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To: Viking2002

We dont need guns to make the government back down.


9 posted on 04/23/2008 4:24:21 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9
We dont need guns to make the government back down.

What do you mean "we", kemosabe. I assume you are a British subject? Without arms, you guys are going to lose in the long run.

10 posted on 04/23/2008 4:38:00 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: Vanders9
We dont need guns to make the government back down.

If history is any guide, chances are that you will.

Even if you get them to back down this time, they aren't going to stop - they'll just try another way.

I sincerely hope that I'm wrong. To paraphrase Jefferson, when you water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants, it also gets watered with the blood of patriots.
11 posted on 04/23/2008 4:39:02 PM PDT by chrisser (The Two Americas: Those that want to be coddled, Those that want to be left the hell alone.)
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To: RC2

With unfettered illegal immigration, we’re already doomed. The only difference is that our new map will be drawn after the fact. Or maybe Absolut had a sneak preview. It is no accident that neither our current administration nor any of the candidates have any intention of stemming the tide. The NAU will be a done deal by the time we ever get to vote on it. Watch and see.


12 posted on 04/23/2008 4:39:47 PM PDT by informavoracious (God BLESS America)
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To: buccaneer81

Am a British citizen indeed, so Im better informed to make statements like that.

If it got to the stage where armed force was needed, it would be obtained. At the moment, it would be counterproductive.


13 posted on 04/23/2008 4:44:07 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: chrisser

“If history is any guide, chances are that you will.”

Not recent history, as the misguided attempt to impose a Poll tax in the 1980’s and 90’s showed. People simply refused to pay it, and HMG backed down. What are they going to do - lock everyone up?

“To paraphrase Jefferson, when you water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants, it also gets watered with the blood of patriots.”

Quite so, which is why I’m not in any hurry to go down that route.


14 posted on 04/23/2008 4:50:35 PM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

“If it got to the stage where armed force was needed, it would be obtained.”

Armed force can only be obtained by first arming oneself. Better get busy.


15 posted on 04/23/2008 4:53:35 PM PDT by 353FMG (Don't make the mistake to think that Government is a Friend of the People)
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To: AndyTheBear

Assuming this really originated from Brussels and not Scrappleface, it’s time for the English to revive the old penalties for treason. Hanging, drawing, quartering.

See Braveheart for the gory details, and the account of the Gunpowder Plot in The Lion and the Throne: The Life and Times of Sir Edward Coke : 1552-1634, by Catherine Drinker Bowen, for the symbolism.

I suspect that this was the original meaning of “cruel and unusual punishment” in the Constitution. Not, say, depriving a prisoner of TV.


16 posted on 04/23/2008 4:54:37 PM PDT by omega4412
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To: bruinbirdman

This isn’t that big of a deal. I suspect the UK actually lobbied for this - look at the size of the regions being drawn here. If you were to draw England up as one region, you’d give them a lot fewer assemblies or whatever. Brittany, for example, is in separate districts too. I’m pretty sure that regional development grants get apportioned by these divisions. If that’s the case, then the presence of London would skew the figures - it could well mean that england wouldn’t get its fair share of European budget allocations for farm subsidies, infrastructure, etc. Parcelling it out like will mean that underdeveloped areas of England get help.


17 posted on 04/23/2008 5:04:51 PM PDT by socalgop
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To: socalgop

Oh. I didn’t see the bit about being in the same zone as France - i’m on little sleep. Eep!


18 posted on 04/23/2008 5:06:53 PM PDT by socalgop
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To: Little Bill

Henry V thought that part of France was England,
but then William of Normandy thought that England was
part of France!


19 posted on 04/23/2008 5:09:23 PM PDT by rahbert
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To: Vanders9
You know, there was a time when we had a political disagreement with you guys. About taxation, representation, stuff like that.

If our guys hadn't been armed 233 years ago, we wouldn't have had a chance.

Take back your freedom, man.

20 posted on 04/23/2008 5:16:47 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: AndyTheBear
Interesting that you should put it that way. Remember Dan. 2:33? The feet of Nebuchadnezer's image were "part of iron, part of clay."

I liked your profile, btw. Even though I am not an emergent evolutionist, I trow we are probably closer to being on the same page as not.

I interpret the 7 days of creation in this fashion:

In order to wean the Israelites away from the idolatry, esp the heliolatry, of the Egyptians, Moses explained the 7 ritual days of the New Year's festival in light of strict monotheism. Thus, there is the Hebrew tohu wabohu, "without form and void", but it is not equivalent to the boundlessness and imperceptibility identified in the Egyptian creation myths as the divine pair Huh and Amun. There is light on the first day, but it is not Atum-Re. There is water but the water is not divine like the Egyptian god Nun and his consort, the goddess Nauhet. There is a separation of the primal waters from the primordial mound of earth, but Atum-Re does not sit upon it and call forth the four frogs and the nine Enneads, who, in turn, are responsible for further acts of creation. In Moses' account, the sun disk is not Aton-Re, but merely one of the heavenly bodies. Man is created by YHVH-Elohim out of the dust of the earth, but he is not fashioned by the ram-god Khnum on a potter's wheel.

I think my interpretation of the 7 days of creation does justice to the text, and does not fall into the trap of a literalism that cannot be sustained by the evidence of modern science. The timeline of the Archbishop Ussher, favored by many evangelicals, falls apart even under a cursory examination of the archaeological evidence. A flood occuring c.2400 B.C. would have obliterated any evidence of the archaeological record for Egypt prior to then, yet that record is relatively intact and unbroken from the Fayum (c. 5000 B.C.) through the proto-dynastic (3100 B.C.), Old Kingdom (2400 B.C.), all the way to the present--one continuous, unbroken record of cultural development.
21 posted on 04/23/2008 5:17:43 PM PDT by attiladhun2 (Obama is the anti-Reagan, instead of opposing the world's tyrants, he wants to embrace them)
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To: Vanders9
“To paraphrase Jefferson, when you water the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants, it also gets watered with the blood of patriots.” Quite so, which is why I’m not in any hurry to go down that route.

We conservatives have a saying on this side of the pond:

Freedom isn't free.

22 posted on 04/23/2008 5:21:24 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: Vanders9
Given the seemingly capitulatory nature of your current political ruling class, I hope you are right. At least you may present a more acute threat to survival than their handlers in Brussels.


23 posted on 04/23/2008 5:22:52 PM PDT by Viking2002 (I hope the AG pounds the Mann Act up Spitzer's ass with a sharp stick.)
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To: Vanders9
If it got to the stage where armed force was needed, it would be obtained. At the moment, it would be counterproductive.

The Kosovo Serbs stood a better change of obtaining weapons than the English. They had Serbia as a neighbor. Who do you have? Given the historical animus held by many Irish, Welch, and Scots toward the English, your best bet will be from the criminal Albanians. Good luck. Have another pint on me.

24 posted on 04/23/2008 5:33:29 PM PDT by LoneRangerMassachusetts
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To: Viking2002

I would bet that the muslims in England are better armed.


25 posted on 04/23/2008 5:50:08 PM PDT by RC2
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To: RC2
Ha. See post #5. :-)


26 posted on 04/23/2008 5:57:57 PM PDT by Viking2002 (I hope the AG pounds the Mann Act up Spitzer's ass with a sharp stick.)
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To: Saoirise

Read it and weep. Gordon Brown is a horse’s arse, (being kind)!


27 posted on 04/23/2008 6:03:43 PM PDT by 444Flyer (Hi Dad!)
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To: bruinbirdman

Does this map remind anyone of the Absolut Vodka map showing the western part of the US as Mexico? At least they had the good grace to lie to us and say they thought it was a joke. These guys in the EU are not joking — they have no sense of humor.

Well, England, how do you like jokes with maps?

And by the way, don’t think you will get firearms from us again like you got them when you thought the Germans were coming in 1940-41. No one here is going donate hunting weapons or even lift a finger to defend you from your masters across the Channel. Now we would be intervening in a “civil war” since you gave up your sovereignty without a fight.

Sorry, but this looks like proof that all the Brits with backbone and courage have left the country, they just forgot to turn out the lights.


28 posted on 04/23/2008 6:05:35 PM PDT by Cincinnatus.45-70 (Patriotism to DemocRats is like sunlight to Dracula.)
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To: bruinbirdman
So, which parts of Germany go to France, Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland?

You mean what parts of France, Austria, Czechoslovakia(which by the way, no longer exists) and Poland go to Germany.
29 posted on 04/23/2008 6:24:24 PM PDT by Cheburashka (Liberalism: a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

How about Pitt the Younger?


30 posted on 04/23/2008 7:30:37 PM PDT by tanuki (u)
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To: tanuki

He worked very hard to keep southern England from being part of France.


31 posted on 04/23/2008 7:41:35 PM PDT by DeaconBenjamin
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To: attiladhun2
The feet of Nebuchadnezer's image were "part of iron, part of clay."

You got my allusion. My best guess is the toes of the statue are the various peoples that the roman empire broke into pretty much centered around Europe et al.

Interesting take on the creation story, but I must confess to knowing little to nothing of Egyptian mythology. Perhaps I can justify your effort to teach me by looking into it, but I make no guarantees at this point. My day job has me busy and so does my family.

32 posted on 04/23/2008 9:20:59 PM PDT by AndyTheBear (Disastrous social experimentation is the opiate of elitist snobs.)
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To: DeaconBenjamin

Then Pitt is It! ;D


33 posted on 04/23/2008 10:04:06 PM PDT by tanuki (u)
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To: bruinbirdman

34 posted on 04/23/2008 10:11:45 PM PDT by Bender2 ("I've got a twisted sense of humor, and everything amuses me." RAH Beyond this Horizon)
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To: bruinbirdman; Travis McGee

Wonder how Canada, the U.S., and Mexico will be configured? I expect Central and parts of South America will probably be thrown in the mix when the time comes.


35 posted on 04/23/2008 10:27:18 PM PDT by Eastbound
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To: Eastbound
"I expect Central and parts of South America will probably be thrown in the mix when the time comes."

Costa Rica is in. Belize. Panama. We're working on Columbia.

yitbos

36 posted on 04/23/2008 10:39:16 PM PDT by bruinbirdman ("Those who control language control minds." - Ayn Rand)
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To: bruinbirdman

What’s yitbos?


37 posted on 04/24/2008 2:29:29 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: buccaneer81

Gandhi had a disagreement with us, and he didnt need guns.


38 posted on 04/24/2008 4:00:13 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: RC2

I would very much doubt they are.


39 posted on 04/24/2008 4:02:44 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: bruinbirdman

That would be the Wehrmacht, I think...


40 posted on 04/24/2008 4:55:59 AM PDT by bt_dooftlook (Democrats - the "No Child/Left/Behind" Party)
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To: bruinbirdman

UK=owned

Most brits are now infected with the euro socialist anti-US disease.They aren’t the same guys that fought with us in ww2 or during the cold war. They have been effectively neutered.Its sad but the truth usually is.


41 posted on 04/24/2008 5:01:20 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME
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To: Vanders9
Gandhi had a disagreement with us, and he didnt need guns.

With a billion (or back in 1947, 700 million) warm bodies on your side, you don't need a lot of guns.

Your situation is a bit different.

42 posted on 04/24/2008 8:53:57 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: MARKUSPRIME

.. or in Iraq or Afghanistan???


43 posted on 04/24/2008 9:06:27 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: buccaneer81

Ok - Martin Luthor King didnt have the numbers on his side, and he didnt need guns either.


44 posted on 04/24/2008 9:07:37 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9

You said it I didn’t.


45 posted on 04/24/2008 9:21:28 AM PDT by MARKUSPRIME
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To: Vanders9
Ok - Martin Luthor King didnt have the numbers on his side, and he didnt need guns either.

He had liberals and the media on his side. Those groups are far more dangerous than conservatives with guns.

Plus, MLK really didn't "win" much. He must be spinning in his grave at what became of his "civil rights" movement. The black family has been destroyed, and young black men die way too young these days.

46 posted on 04/24/2008 12:43:13 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: AndyTheBear
Indeed, Nebuchadnezer's image is Rome. The legs represent the division of the empire in the 4th cen. into its Western and Byzantine parts (and perhaps the Great Schism of the 11th cen., which is merely a manifestation of the original political division). This holds because the breast and arms of silver represent the dual nature of Persia, which drew her kings from both Medea and Persia.

My work allows me a lot of time for study. Since I love all things ancient, I am currently teaching myself Latin. Laboram meam amo quod schola esse labor mea.
47 posted on 04/24/2008 6:50:58 PM PDT by attiladhun2 (Obama is the anti-Reagan, instead of opposing the world's tyrants, he wants to embrace them)
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To: buccaneer81

“He had liberals and the media on his side.”

I would hope, being in the right, that he had more than that on his side.

“Those groups are far more dangerous than conservatives with guns.”

You said it!

“Plus, MLK really didn’t “win” much. He must be spinning in his grave at what became of his “civil rights” movement. The black family has been destroyed, and young black men die way too young these days.”

He must be, but that’s hardly his fault. He certainly never purposed that. Those who followed after him were men of lesser vision.

He


48 posted on 04/25/2008 12:32:52 AM PDT by Vanders9
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To: Vanders9
Those who followed after him were men of lesser vision.

LOL! Touche sir. That's what we Yanks call "typical British understatement." ;-)

49 posted on 04/25/2008 10:13:28 AM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: buccaneer81

:)


50 posted on 04/28/2008 3:54:36 AM PDT by Vanders9
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