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Abuses in Polygamous Sects
childrenshealthcare.org ^ | Not Dated | Rita Swan

Posted on 04/27/2008 6:40:25 PM PDT by Graybeard58

After decades of ignoring the polygamous sects of the American Southwest, state and federal officials are now cracking down on the child abuse and other illegal activity within them. Warren Jeffs, leader of the Fundamentalist Latter-Day Saints (FLDS), has been convicted of being an accomplice to rape and sentenced to two five years-to-life terms. Mohave County, Arizona, charged eight others for sexual conduct with minors in 2005.

In March, 2006, the federal government fined one contractor over $10,000 in child labor law violations for using FLDS boys.

Washington County, Utah, prosecutor Brock Belnap is investigating deaths of children in the FLDS community popularly known as Short Creek and incorporated as Hildale, Utah, and Colorado City, Arizona. Child advocates have found 180 marked graves of children and 58 unmarked graves of babies in the towns’ cemeteries.

A few victims have also been willing to file civil suits in recent years. A suit filed by six of the so-called “Lost Boys” is now in settlement negotiations over the money and other reparations they seek for the psychological and economic damages inflicted on them.

Discussion and background

In 1953 state and federal agents tried to stop polygamy in Short Creek. They raided the community, jailed the men and separated children from mothers.

Polygamy has long been against the law n all states, but public sympathy turned strongly against the government, charges were dropped, family members were returned, and Arizona Governor Howard Pyle was turned out of office.

Not until the dawn of the 21st century with the Winter Olympics in Salt Lake City fast approaching did the media and state government show concern for the endemic abuses in polygamous enclaves.

Incest victim reports

The catalyst was horrible enough. In 1998 a sixteen-year-old girl was ordered by her father to marry an uncle twice her age. Twice she tried to run away, but was caught. She went for help to her mother for help, who promptly returned her to her father. The father then took her to a remote ranch, beat her savagely, and left.

The girl limped five miles down a dirt road until she reached a truck stop and dialed 911. Juab County Attorney David Leavitt, brother of the gov­ernor, filed charges and won convictions of the uncle for incest and unlawful sexual conduct with a minor and of the father for abuse.

Mom shares 13-year-old with husband

The next year Utah polygamist Tom Green had a religious vision that he should proclaim his life­style to the world. Breaking with the secrecy of most polygamists, he and his wives went on many national talk shows. He openly bragged that he had married all ten of his wives when they were minors. One was only thirteen when he, at age 37, got her pregnant.

The girl’s mother was then married to Green. The mother encouraged and defends the arrange­ment. She says her daughter (by her first husband, who had died) sat on Green’s lap and wanted to marry him, so the mother was “happy” to share Green with her.

Victims of polygamy and Utah

Since polygamy is illegal, most polygamists have only one civil marriage; the others are dubbed “celestial marriages.” Many of the celestial wives register with the state as single mothers and draw welfare for their huge families. In one decade Tom Green and his dependents received more than $647,000 in public assistance.

To Leavitt, Green was a pedophile. These little girls were raised “from the cradle” to marry as chil­dren and knew only a life of polygamy, Leavitt de­clared. They are “victims of pedophiles, and they are victims of the state of Utah, which turned its back on polygamy for sixty years,” he said.

Leavitt filed charges against Green and won convictions for bigamy, criminal non-support, and child rape. But the judge imposed a lenient sen­tence in 2002; Green will serve only six years in prison, total.

Even more startling, the voters turned Leavitt out of office later that year with many say­ing the publicity was distasteful to them.

Exposure of polygamy abuses continues

Nevertheless, polygamy has not sunk back to the obscurity it enjoyed before the courageous girl reached a pay phone and called for help. Several women who have escaped polygamy speak out publicly about the abuses and provide material assistance for some who are trying to leave.

Civil suits have been filed by a few victims of sexual abuse. Two have won judgments and are attempting to get their money from the United Effort Plan, a communal property trust held by the Fundamentalist Latter-Day Saints. A judge has removed the UEP trustees and appointed new ones. Police officers have been forced to resign for prac­ticing polygamy and refusing to enforce state laws against FLDS members. A polygamist judge was also forced out of office.

While law enforcement officials and judges are now expected to obey laws against polygamy, Utah authorities have reportedly signaled that they will not challenge sexual relationships between other consenting adults. But Utah and Arizona are now cracking down on some of the other abuses found in polygamous communities.

Fugitive prophet charged for sex abuse

Washington County, Utah, prosecutor Brock Belnap has charged fugitive prophet Warren Jeffs with facilita­ting rape of a minor. According to the victim, Jeffs demanded that she marry a much older man and “replenish the earth” when she was a young teen­ager. She pro­tested, but Jeffs said her salvation depended on it.

In 2002, the Mohave County, Arizona, prosecu­tor got a guilty verdict against Colorado City mayor Daniel Barlow for child sexual abuse, but the judge sentenced him only to supervised probation and com­munity service because of letters from his vic­tims and other FLDS members asking for leniency.

God endorses “bleeding the beast”

Undeterred, the prosecutor charged eight more men for sexual conduct with underage girls in 2005.

The states have also tried to crack down on the en­de­mic welfare fraud in polygamous groups. The fraud is even institutionalized as “bleeding the beast,” by which church members mean taking from federal and state governments because the govern­ment has persecuted them or their Mormon ancestors.

Two listeners paraphrased polygamous priest James Harmston as preaching that God “wants” them to take from every government pro­gram possi­ble. God “doesn’t expect you to wallow in turkey manure. In another lifetime, we were persecuted and thrown out of Jackson County by the govern­ment. We’re entitled to everything we can get,” he said.

The reference is to Jackson County, Missouri, where Mormons were persecuted, murdered, and driven out in the 1830s, both by vigilantes and by Governor Boggs’s orders to the Missouri Militia.

Public funds support polygamous towns

With God ordering fraud, as argued by modern-day polygamists, there is plenty of it. Many plural wives claim they don’t know the whereabouts of their children’s father. As many as 50% of Hildale residents were on public assistance in 2001; 33% were on food stamps in 1998 compared to Utah’s statewide average of 4.7%. In 1997 every school-age child in Colorado City was living below the poverty level.

The twin towns have received millions of dol­lars from the federal government for housing and street improvements. Colorado City got $2.8 mil­lion for an airport, which prophet Jeffs has used for his chartered Lear jet.

In 2005, Colorado City’s tiny fire department received $350,000 in Homeland Security funds—the state’s third largest Homeland Security grant.

Arizona has taken over the Colorado City school system because of gross mismanagement of public funds.

In March, 2006, the federal government did fine a contractor over $10,000 in child labor law violations for using FLDS boys.

The response of state and federal government to the abuses of FLDS boys has, however, been severe­ly inadequate in CHILD’s view.

Lost boys expelled as surplus

Most of the world first heard of the “lost boys” in 2004 when dozens came to the Utah Capitol and spoke. All said they were forced out by the current prophet, Warren Jeffs. They said more than 400 males, ages 13 and older, have been banished from the FLDS community since Jeffs became supreme ruler in 2002.

They were banished for such infractions as watching movies, ogling girls, wearing short-sleeved shirts, or listening to popular music. Their real sin, most critics say, was being surplus males in a polygamous community.

Many of the boys are taken out of school before they reach eighth grade and forced to do hard labor in the sect’s construction and other businesses on the promise that the prophet will give them the three wives they need to get into heaven.

They are taught from the cradle up that the prophet must be obeyed as God’s representative, that the outside world is evil, and that anyone leaving the FLDS will be ground to dust on earth and damned in the after-life.

Then after years of work for little or no com­pen­sation, they are expelled from the only commu­nity they have ever known. Several have been dumped out on the side of the road by their own fathers or church elders.

Several of the lost boys have committed sui­cide. Many are homeless. Many use drugs or steal.

“They live every day like it’s their last day and they don’t care about anything. They’re told they won’t have three wives, and they’re doomed. But they all want to go back to their mums,” said Dave Bills, who runs a foundation to help the boys.

Lost boy Gideon Barlow told of trying to give his mother a Mother’s Day present, but she ordered him to stay away. When he tried to obtain a Medi­caid card, he learned that his 73-year-old father was drawing Social Security funds in Gideon’s name. Social Security allows retirement-age parents to collect money to help support children ages 16 or younger who are living at home.

Why no criminal charges?

These are shocking abuses of hundreds of chil­dren, and some legislators have asked why parents have not been charged with child abandon­ment or neglect. Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff says the boys do not want to testify against their parents.

He points out that child abandonment is only a misdemeanor in Utah. He feels that prosecution for a misdemeanor would not change the behavior of parents who are willing to cast out their own chil­dren on orders from a man they regard as God’s representative on earth.

There are also practical considerations. “If I charge one, do I charge 800? Do I have the re­sources?” Shurtleff asked.

Safety net and court-supervised probation

With a $700,000 federal grant, his office has formed a “Safety Net Committee,” which tries to help the lost boys get an education, provides other resources for those escaping abuses in polygamous groups, and discusses ways to inform those in poly­gamous groups of available services. Some women in more “moderate” polygamous groups are on the committee, and Shurtleff praises the fact that the state is now talking “to” polygamists not just “about” them. His office has produced “a primer” about the beliefs and practices of diffe­rent polyga­mous groups and how distressed mem­bers can get services from public and private organizations.

Brock Belnap tries to help the lost boys func­tion in society by getting those who commit crimes sentenced to court-supervised probation with coun­seling instead of jail.

Emancipation bill passed

The legislature’s only response to the plight of the lost boys was to pass a law allowing children to petition for emancipation at age 16, so the boys can enter into contracts, enroll in school, rent an apart­ment, get medical care, or even stay in a shelter without their parents’ permission. Utah’s uneman­ci­pa­ted minors cannot stay in a shelter for more than eight hours without parental permission.

Like most states, Utah already had a law provi­ding for emancipation, but the law passed in 2006, HB30, describes conditions for obtaining it in greater detail.

Even this modest effort was controversial. Eagle Forum and some legislators stewed over alleged government interference in family privacy. Some feared teenagers would seek emancipation to get out of a few household chores. Others claimed it would be used to get abortions.

The bill’s supporters pointed out that a petition­er had to be able to prove he was able to support himself and manage his own finances. Few teen­agers could qualify, they said.

Thus, by their own admission, HB30 was an inadequate solution for the 16- and 17-year-olds and no help at all for the 12- to 15-year-olds.

Lost boys file civil suit

The greater hope for change in a barbaric reli­gious practice lies with a civil suit filed by six lost boys in 2004 against the FLDS and now in settlement negotiations. They seek money for the psychological and economic damages in­flicted on them. An FLDS attorney says the suit is without merit because churches have a constitu­tional right to set their own standards for ex-communication.

Joanne Suder, a Baltimore, Maryland, attorney repre­sents the lost boys and Brent Jeffs, who seeks damages for alleged child sexual abuse by his uncle, Warren Jeffs.

High child fatality rates

The child fatality rates in the FLDS also raise concern and questions. In 2005, Flora Jessop and Linda Walker, director of the Child Protection Pro­ject at www.childpro.org, went to the Isaac Carling and “Babyland” cemeteries in Hildale and Colorado City, videotaped all marked and unmarked graves, and compiled all available information about the deaths. Children are buried in both, but Babyland is exclusively for babies.

Among the 324 marked graves were 180 of children under the age of eighteen. In addition, there were 58 unmarked graves of babies.

Jessop and Walker also list 74 FLDS members who they know have died, but whose headstones are not in the Carling or Babyland cemeteries. Among them are 18 minor children plus eight stillbirths. Some of these children may be in the unmarked graves, they note.

Many deaths and birth defects

Jessop says she saw and heard of many deaths of children while she was growing up in the FLDS towns. After she and her grandmother went to the police and reported that Jessop’s father was sexually abusing her, Jessop was held in solitary confinement from age 13 to 16. Her room was next to the sect’s birthing center, which her uncle was in charge of; Jessop says she became aware during that period that many babies died and were buried in the backyard of the birthing center.

She also has seen many children with severe birth defects. Two of her siblings have cleft palates. Another sister was born with dislocated hips. No­thing was done about it until the baby was about 18 months old. Then both of her hips had to be bro­ken, and she was put in a body cast for months.

Two defectors claim that some FLDS women pray to have Down’s syndrome children because such children have docile temperaments and be­cause the mothers get $500/month in public assistance for a handicapped child.

Are causes of death recorded?

CHILD wrote to the Utah Attorney General asking if there were death certificates and causes of death recorded for all the children buried in the FLDS cemeteries. If not, we asked, “shouldn’t criminal charges be filed for improper disposal of remains? And if some of the babies died from abuse or neglect, shouldn’t that also be a criminal matter?”

The Attorney General’s office replied that they did not have the resources to investigate those con­cerns, but there is no statute of limitations on homi­cide, so if we have evidence of homicide, we should bring it to their attention.

Washington County prosecutor Brock Belnap says his office and other law enforcement agencies are investigating the deaths.

Jessop charges that the Mohave County, Arizo­na, coroner signed off on many FLDS deaths with­out even seeing the bodies.

Jessop says that until about seventeen years ago the FLDS opposed medical care. Today they have their own pharmacy as well as state-licensed physi­cians and nurses who are church members and live in Short Creek. Indeed, some women get far too much medication today, Jessop and others charge. They say that women are put on high doses of psychotropic drugs to keep them subservient.

Improper civil commitments alleged

Jessop also believes many FLDS girls are im­pro­perly committed to mental institutions to keep them from acting on independent ideas. Jessop says she was threatened with commitment to a mental institution if she refused to marry the man chosen for her.

In Utah and Arizona, children can be commit­ted to mental institutions on school counselors’ sig­natures, Jessop says. She knows of 15 FLDS wo­men committed to the Guidance Center, a state-accredited psychiatric hospital in Flagstaff, Arizona. A hospital record for one wo­man sta­ted she was being discharged from her fourth commitment because she “atoned” for her bad behavior toward her husband, Jessop says.

Jessop charges authorities with a double stan­dard on rescuing girls from polygamy. While massive effort was put into finding 14-year-old Elizabeth Smart, who was kidnapped by a Mormon fundamentalist to be his plural wife, law enforce­ment has not tried to find Jessop’s sister, Ruby, who disappeared after being forced into a plural marriage at age 14 and nearly hemorrhaging to death on her “wedding night,” Jessop charges.

Comment

Utah and Arizona looked the other way for nearly half a century after the failure of the Short Creek raid to stamp out polygamy in 1953. Now they seem to be walking a fine line of letting con­senting adults practice polygamy, but filing criminal charges for some other violations of law.

The other violations are massive. In Utah, sex with 14- and 15-year-olds is illegal if one partner is seven years older than the other. Sex with 16- and 17-year olds is illegal if one partner is ten years older. Arizona prohibits all sexual intercourse with persons under eighteen years old. Unlawful sexual conduct with minors is the norm in the FLDS and some other polygamous clans, yet to our knowledge Utah has prosecuted only one case of unlawful sexual conduct in the past decade—that of the girl who called from the truck stop in 1998.

One case each of the more serious crimes of rape, facilitating rape, and in­cest have been charged in Utah since then, but there must be many more sexual abuses that are not charged.

No federal charges for sex trafficking

The federal government should be prosecuting the trafficking of under-aged girls between the poly­gamous communities in the American Southwest and Canada and across state lines.

Authorities complain that victims will not come forward nor willingly testify. Those aspects add to the state’s challenges, but they are not an insur­moun­table barrier to prosecution. David Leavitt won a conviction of Tom Green even though his wives would not testify against him, and a plural wife was recently compelled to testify under sub­poena in Mohave County.

Are providers reporting abuse and neglect?

If FLDS does indeed now have state-licensed health care providers caring for its members, why aren’t they reporting abused children to state child protection services? Doctors and nurses are state-mandated abuse and neglect reporters. They can do the math to count backwards nine months and figure out that girls are victims of sexual abuse. If the state began prosecuting health care providers for failure to report child abuse, their attitudes might change in a hurry.

It is unbelievable that hundreds of boys have been expelled from their homes and no criminal charges have been filed. Utah Attorney General Shurtleff says the boys do not want their parents prosecuted, but many sexual abuse victims do not want their perpetrators prosecuted either. Indeed, most abused and neglected children may not “want” their parents prosecuted, but there are times when the benefits of prosecution outweigh the child’s emotional conflict.

Prosecution would at least send a message that child abandonment is a crime, and without it there will likely be hundreds more boys wandering around the Southwest. Utah’s new law clarifying their right to emancipation at age 16 is a severely inadequate tool for preventing the pain and suffering the lost boys experience.

Utah ought to make dumping a 12-year-old boy off in the desert more than a misdemeanor. Utah has a law at Utah Code 76-5-110 making it a felony to neglect a disabled child (unless the caregiver has religious objections to medical care), but it is not a felony to neglect a “normal” child.

Is polygamy a constitutional right?

Some expect that the U.S. Supreme Court will soon rule that polygamy per se is a constitutional right because of the High Court’s ruling against sodomy laws in Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 58 (2003). Law professor Marci Hamilton points out, however, that the Court explicitly declined to en­dorse same-sex marriage in that ruling. There is a difference be­tween the state allowing sexual behavior between consenting adults and the state giving it formal recognition in a civil marriage contract.

The state has a compelling interest in protecting inheritance and property rights of women and chil­dren and the legitimacy of children. It has an inte­rest in preventing the birth defects caused by incest.

As a democracy, it has an interest in fostering the participation of all citizens in government. Poli­tical science professor Thomas Flanagan points out that constitutional democracies have arisen only from monogamous societies and argues that poly­gamous societies are inherently unequal and anti-democratic.

For all these reasons and more, polygamy should remain illegal.

Sources include John Llewellyn, Polygamy Under Attack (Agreka Books, 2004); Jon Krakauer, Under the Banner of Heaven: a Story of Violent Faith (NY: Doubleday, 2003); Salt Lake Tribune, March 13 and Aug. 23, 2005; Feb. 11, 14, and 19, 2006; March 2, 13, 26, and 28, 2006; and June 21, 2006; Tri-State News Network, Aug. 1, Aug. 3, and Aug. 15-18, 2005; Arizona Republic, Aug. 1, 2004; KSL-TV, Aug. 28, 2004, and www.childbrides.org.

Severe birth defect common in polygamous community

More than half the world’s cases of a severe birth defect called fumarase deficiency have been found in the twin towns of Hildale, Utah, and Colo­rado City, Arizona, controlled by the polygamous Fundamentalist Latter-Day Saints Church.

The towns have a total population of under 10,000, yet Dr. Theodore Tarby has seen twenty children with fumarase deficiency in these towns since 1990. By comparison, only thirteen cases have been reported elsewhere in the entire world.

The actual total in the FLDS may be much higher than twenty since babies may have died before they were diagnosed with the condition by a medical doctor.

None of the FLDS children with fumarase defi­ciency has an IQ above 25. Many cannot sit up. Some can barely even move their head and eyes. Frequent and powerful seizures are common. Por­tions of brain matter are replaced by water. An MRI of the brain of one fumarase-deficient child showed that more than half the brain was missing.

Geneticists agree that the high rate of this birth defect is due to the in-breeding in FLDS with most of the population descended from two patriarchs and with a self-proclaimed prophet arranging all the marriages within the group. It is a simple matter of a 25% likelihood of giving birth to a child with fumarase deficiency when two carriers of the recessive gene for it marry.

Tarby believes the number of FLDS children with fumarase deficiency could rise into the hun­dreds within a couple of generations.

Birth defects irrelevant in divine mandate

Tarby has explained the science at a meeting of about 150 FLDS members and to many parents individually, but they do not appear to care. “They consider these children to be their responsibility from God and their duty is to produce as many children as possible,” he said. “Sister-wives” often help each other care for handicapped children.

Tarby told one father that his child was handi­capped because the father and mother were related. The father replied, “Up there, we’re all related.”

Tarby wasn’t sure whether the man meant “up there in Colorado City” or “up there in heaven.”

Prophet can’t use science to arrange marriages

Another physician doubted the current prophet, Warren Jeffs, could find any outsiders who would want to marry into his church even if he looked for them. Furthermore, a former FLDS member said, Jeffs claims to be carrying out God’s orders when he picks marriage partners. If FLDS members found out he was using science to arrange marri­ages, they might doubt his status as God’s repre­sentative on earth.

Arizona gives more than $12 million a year to help indigent residents of Colorado City pay for health-insurance premiums. The Arizona Depart­ments of Health Services and of Economic Security have been providing services for fumarase-deficient victims and their caregivers for fifteen years, but say federal law prohibits them from disclosing the costs.

Taken from The Phoenix New Times, Dec. 29, 2005; Deseret News, Feb. 9, 2006; and Salt Lake City Tribune, Feb. 11, 2006.


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; US: Utah
KEYWORDS: antimormon; flds; jeffs; lawsuit; lostboys; mormon; mormonbashing; polygamy; tomgreen
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1 posted on 04/27/2008 6:40:25 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: greyfoxx39; colorcountry

Ping.


2 posted on 04/27/2008 6:41:52 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Graybeard58; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; ...
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

3 posted on 04/27/2008 6:42:24 PM PDT by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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Comment #4 Removed by Moderator

To: Graybeard58

Just damn!


5 posted on 04/27/2008 6:47:44 PM PDT by org.whodat (What's the difference between a Democrat and a republican????)
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To: SkyPilot

IS that some twisted kind of satire?


6 posted on 04/27/2008 6:50:30 PM PDT by eleni121 (EN TOUTO NIKA!! +)
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To: Graybeard58

‘There are also practical considerations. “If I charge one, do I charge 800? Do I have the re­sources?” Shurtleff asked.’

I don’t know, what do you all spend your money on?

I guess child neglect is a pretty low priority. They have parking tickets to write, and then there are the jaywalkers.

For crying out loud, start with one. Then do another one. Then another. One young soul at a time. Serve and protect, man.


7 posted on 04/27/2008 6:50:32 PM PDT by Marie2 (I used to be disgusted. . .now I try to be amused.)
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To: eleni121
Satire, yes.

Twisted, no.

Millions believe it.

8 posted on 04/27/2008 6:57:03 PM PDT by SkyPilot ("I wasn't in church during the time when the statements were made.")
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To: SkyPilot

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


9 posted on 04/27/2008 6:59:11 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: eleni121
Very interesting picture you have on your profile. Thanks for sharing it.

Paidomazoma (Devshirme)by Nicholas Gyzis. A Janissary (Muslim Turk fanatic soldier who was once himself forcefully taken from his Christian parents and raised to butcher them) is ready to take a young boy from his mother's arms. The simplicity with which the scene is rendered imbues it with a rare immediacy. The Janissary's bright red cloak appears like a river of blood

10 posted on 04/27/2008 7:00:50 PM PDT by SkyPilot ("I wasn't in church during the time when the statements were made.")
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To: SkyPilot

Oh Sorry. BUT Even though millions believe this stuff it is still awfully twisted.


11 posted on 04/27/2008 7:05:47 PM PDT by eleni121 (EN TOUTO NIKA!! +)
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To: SkyPilot
Smith reminds me so much of Paul Dano playing the false preacher in There Will Be Blood


Paul Dano

12 posted on 04/27/2008 7:10:46 PM PDT by eleni121 (EN TOUTO NIKA!! +)
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To: Graybeard58

The demonization begins. If it’s true, it will be easy to prove. Prove it or shut up.


13 posted on 04/27/2008 7:14:49 PM PDT by Soliton (McCain couldn't even win a McCain look-alike contest)
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To: SkyPilot

Joseph Smith was just a man, like any other man, who would be fortunate to lay prostrate at the feet of Jesus Christ, God Incarnate.


14 posted on 04/27/2008 7:23:28 PM PDT by I'm ALL Right!
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To: metmom; UCANSEE2

see this yet?


15 posted on 04/27/2008 7:30:23 PM PDT by pandoraou812 (Out, damned spot............OUT .. Keep it sweet my arse!)
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To: SkyPilot
Joseph Smith did worse than that, he "married" OTHER MEN'S WIVES and told them to keep it a secret from their husbands.

Jail all the men and sentence them to no outside contact. Take everything they own under the RICO acts. Put all the kids in foster care, and send the women to Vegas to find jobs.

> BTW...SENTINEL=36 years under the thumb of the lds cult of guilt, 3 months free and I've never felt better. Took two hours of READING for a lifetime of of LIES to absolutely crumble. The LDS is VERY MUCH LIKE FLDS...40-50 hours a week of free labor, promises of polygamy in the afterlife, 12 year olds told they have more power than the president of the united states, etc, etc.

I was in the bishopric and I have a testimony that it is all a fraud, every word and precept, all FRAUD !!

16 posted on 04/27/2008 7:31:39 PM PDT by SENTINEL (SGT USMC....TRY BURNING THIS FLAG, ROCKCHUCKER !!)
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To: Graybeard58

Makes me want to throw up. Where do you start? Charge one. Then another. The top will eventually blow off the thing.


17 posted on 04/27/2008 7:34:53 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys--Reagan and Bush)
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To: SENTINEL

Thank you. Glad to hear that you are free.


18 posted on 04/27/2008 7:42:38 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: 1000 silverlings; Alice in Wonderland; aMorePerfectUnion; ansel12; bonfire; brytlea; Clara Lou; ...

FIP


19 posted on 04/27/2008 7:57:14 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: eleni121

I would wish it was, but nobody who made satire would even consider something so far-fetched sounding.


20 posted on 04/27/2008 8:00:50 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Soliton; Graybeard58
Prove it or shut up.

Who put you in charge? Did someone make you a mod when nobody was looking?

21 posted on 04/27/2008 8:04:05 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Soliton

If you think all those people are lying and the weight of all that testimony doesn’t count for anything, you wouldn’t believe anything any body tells you.

Warren Jeffs was convicted in a court of law, the minimum standard any government haters DEMAND as good enough to be accepted as truth. Clearly, since that’s not good enough for you, nothing will be.

In that case, why don’t you go find another thread to play on?


22 posted on 04/27/2008 8:08:33 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Graybeard58
An informative post. The scales of justice are beginning to tilt slowly but surely in favour of the Texas authorities.

Alas for Joseph Smith 1805-1844, who had 33 "wives", just for those who have not been informed, he was brutally murdered. A mob burst into the jail where he was being held. He lived for three weeks and died in Wisconsin. It possibly was at the instigation of dissident former followers. His highly organized cult then was broken up. This brought about three different "Mormon" sects.

James Strang 1813-1856, of the "Strangite" sect of this church, settled Beaver Island, Michigan. Again dissident followers who were humiliated and punished by him, fomented against him. He was shot down. His flock taken off by the US government and dumped on the mainland.

Given that history. Somebody is getting off lightly at this stage. That they are sweating is very likely.

23 posted on 04/27/2008 8:15:48 PM PDT by Peter Libra
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To: SENTINEL

I am currently reading the book The 19th Wife, by Ann Young.
The stuff that was going on in Texas in the FLDS, is mild compared to what went on in early Mormon Utah.


24 posted on 04/27/2008 8:20:00 PM PDT by JRochelle (Keep sweet means shut up and take it.)
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To: JRochelle

Careful, the descendants of Brigham Young might send the descendants of Wild Bill Hickham and the Danites after you for a little “blood atonement”...


25 posted on 04/27/2008 8:30:35 PM PDT by SENTINEL (SGT USMC....TRY BURNING THIS FLAG, ROCKCHUCKER !!)
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To: SENTINEL
And Port Rockwell, Brigham's avenging angels.

And there is a university named after that evil man. Breathtaking.

BTW, what led you to doubt? I don't mean to pry but I am curious.

26 posted on 04/27/2008 8:36:24 PM PDT by JRochelle (Keep sweet means shut up and take it.)
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To: Soliton
DEMONIZATION ?...

They openly admit to polygamy and forced marriages to underage girls. THE OPENLY CONFESS TO IT, WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT ??

27 posted on 04/27/2008 8:38:37 PM PDT by SENTINEL (SGT USMC....TRY BURNING THIS FLAG, ROCKCHUCKER !!)
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To: Graybeard58

ping


28 posted on 04/27/2008 8:39:30 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: Graybeard58

The abuse of young girls all over the U.S. goes on without so much of a blink of an eye. Right here on this website, it has been reported that Planned Parenthood is aborting young girls - without parental permission or knowledge - and the would-be fathers are old drooling geezers. Such horrible child abuse but the left cries “privacy, privacy, privacy”!!

So if all this horrible abuse was going on, why didn’t they round up all the men and throw them in jail? Why? Because that would have been illegal and hard. Easier to kidnap the innocent helpless kids.

As for the mothers, they grew up in that mess and need help; by stealing their children, the gov’t looks like the enemy, especially since they came in with guns drawn and a tank.

I do not trust the government with anyone’s children!


29 posted on 04/27/2008 8:42:43 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Saundra Duffy
especially since they came in with guns drawn and a tank.

I didn't know that. Do you have pictures?

30 posted on 04/27/2008 8:46:07 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Soliton
Look, you're knowledgeable in all these things. Considering that the Reformed CJC LDS believes, fairly uniformly, that the Second Coming starts in Jackson County MO, doesn't that mean that the reference in the foregoing story is not really about getting kicked out of Jackson County by non-Mormon persecution, but rather getting kicked out of Jackson County by Reformed CJC LDS?

If you take a good look at the F(lds) theology, they have/had members who believed strongly in the Jackson County doctrine ~ including the Jeffs family. They were selling plots there to members so they could build homes once Jesus arrived.

There seems to be this idea that these guys are all splinter groups from LDS, but the LDS crowd seems pretty obedient to the church dictat that they don't do polygamy any more.

RCJCLDS, on the other hand, always rejected polygamy and broke with Smith over the practice when he said he was going to institute it.

So isn't it more likely that these polygamous groups that developed AFTER Utah statehood (and the end of LDS church sanctioned polygamy) are more likely splinters arising out of RCJCLDS congregations where former polygamists looked back wistfully on the practice, and tried to bolt back into the LDS only to be rebuffed?

Else, you'd not have polygamists running about also thinking of Jackson County MO as the site of the Second Coming.

31 posted on 04/27/2008 8:50:27 PM PDT by muawiyah
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To: SkyPilot

When Joseph Smith instituted PLURAL MARRIAGE it was not against the law. Real Mormons obey the laws of the land (Romans 13). When the U.S. made it against the law (polygamy), the Church stopped it. The FLDS split with the true LDS Church at that time (around 1890).

The FLDS church has nothing whatsoever to do with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and you know it. To put Joseph’s Smith’s photo up on this thread stinks to High Heaven but thank you for fulfilling prophesy. The Prophet Joseph Smith said his name would be known for good and evil. I know his name for good and you know his name for evil.

By the way, I suppose you think Abraham and King David and other Prophets of the Old Testament were polygamists.

Shame on you. Get your Bible straight and your history.


32 posted on 04/27/2008 8:50:52 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: eleni121; moder_ator

Joseph Smith, when he was 14 years old, saw a vision of Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, my Savior. He paid a heavy price when he grew up, murdered by a mob of blood-thirsty men. No trial, no judge, no jury. I suppose it’s OK with you to murder people without a trial.

Moderator, this has turned into a trash Mormons thread and I ask that you put a stop to it. The FLDS are NOT Mormons. The FLDS broke away in 1890 when the U.S. made polygamy illegal. But any excuse for anti Mormon bigots to dog pile on.


33 posted on 04/27/2008 8:58:13 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: JRochelle
Something somebody posted here during the Romney days saved me. I was arguing with this person, and it occured to me that I could read his link and beat him because it was true, but alas...

The three things that affected me the most are...

1. Swedenborg's book "A Treatise on Heaven and Hell". It lays out in detail the plan of salvation I was told my whole life Joseph Smith received from an angel. The names of the celestial kingdom and others etc, in full detail are in that book. Swedenborg was dead long before Smith was born. This is THE cornerstone of the church, and when Smith was asked about the book, he admitted to reading it, but mocked Swedenborg for "dying for lack of bread", or not making a buck from it.

2. Polyamory, or having sex with other men's wives. Joseph smith did this repeatedly, and it's written into sections of church history kept from the membership. When he slept with the printer's wife and he found out, he was going to print the story in the paper. He denied everyhting in a sermon where he claimed even to be greater than Christ, and then Smith ordered the press destroyed and THAT is why he was jailed and killed. Martyr, my a$$.

3. Blatantly Masonic rituals, and nothing more in the temple. I only did the full endowment one time in my life, and had read up quite a bit on secret societies and masonry before I went to the temple. I thought I was being a good mormon learning about the enemy, the BOM is full of wicked secret societies, it is one of the main themes, watch out for secret societies...I was mortified in the temple, it is nothing more than MASONRY.

The list is huge, but these things affected me most. Other items that really upset me are: Blood atonement, the danites, the kinderhook plates scam that js fell for, the rosetta stone and js's outright fraud of a book called the pearl of great price, DNA testing proving no hebrew ancestry of ancient american inhabitants, and last but not least, the confession later in life by my direct ancestor, and one of the three witnesses, Martin Harris that he and all the other witnesses never saw any angles, plates or God. I am ashamed it took me so long to see things, you have no idea how thorough the brainwashing is.

34 posted on 04/27/2008 8:59:17 PM PDT by SENTINEL (SGT USMC....TRY BURNING THIS FLAG, ROCKCHUCKER !!)
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To: Graybeard58

bump for later


35 posted on 04/27/2008 8:59:42 PM PDT by Wade827 (Job 21:3)
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To: NYpeanut; the808bass; brytlea; pandoraou812; ricks_place; CindyDawg; Huntress; Pebcak; ...

PING!!

FReepmail to be added to the FLDS Eldorado Legal Case Ping List


36 posted on 04/27/2008 9:01:00 PM PDT by Politicalmom (The children were taken because they were either being raised to be raped, or raised to be a rapist.)
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To: Saundra Duffy

Want some cheese with that whine? Or is that a “trash Mormons” comment?

Grow up, it’s an informative article about child abusers.


37 posted on 04/27/2008 9:02:51 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Graybeard58

They had an UNARMED armored vehicle.

I haven’t seen a single drawn gun in any picture.


38 posted on 04/27/2008 9:04:10 PM PDT by Politicalmom (The children were taken because they were either being raised to be raped, or raised to be a rapist.)
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To: Saundra Duffy; SkyPilot
When Joseph Smith instituted PLURAL MARRIAGE it was not against the law. Real Mormons obey the laws of the land (Romans 13). When the U.S. made it against the law (polygamy), the Church stopped it.

Not exactly true Saudra. It was illegal in Illinois at the time that Joseph Smith introduced the practice. It was outlawed in the Territories in 1862 and the LDS Church did not end the practice until nearly 30 years later.

The FLDS church has nothing whatsoever to do with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints and you know it.

They both claim to be the true followers of Joseph Smith. They share a common ancestry and a common belief in the Joseph Smith as a prophet of God. The both believe that Brigham Young was a true prophet of God as well. They both believe in Doctrine and Covenants section 132, only the FLDS actually practice what the LDS Church only preaches.

39 posted on 04/27/2008 9:04:12 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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To: Saundra Duffy

” Real Mormons obey the laws of the land (Romans 13). When the U.S. made it against the law (polygamy), the Church stopped it.”

“The FLDS are NOT Mormons. The FLDS broke away in 1890 when the U.S. made polygamy illegal.”


“1856, The new Republican party selected for it’s national platform a call to abolish the “Twin Relics of Barbarism, Slavery and Polygamy”. (”The Mormons and the Law: The Polygamy Cases”, Orma Lindord, Utah Law Review, p. 312.)”

” 1862 July 8, Morrill Anti-Bigamy Law, signed by Abraham Lincoln.
First basic federal legislation by the Congress of the United States that was designed “to punish and prevent the practice of polygamy in the Territories of the United States”.
Bigamy punishable by a $500 fine and imprisonment not exceeding five years.
All acts passed by the Legislative Assembly of the Territory of Utah “pertaining to polygamy and spiritual marriage” were annulled.”


40 posted on 04/27/2008 9:05:42 PM PDT by ansel12 (Sons of Helaman- uniformed FLDS who enter houses without knocking and report novels, computers,TVs)
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To: SENTINEL
3. Blatantly Masonic rituals, and nothing more in the temple. I only did the full endowment one time in my life, and had read up quite a bit on secret societies and masonry before I went to the temple. I thought I was being a good mormon learning about the enemy, the BOM is full of wicked secret societies, it is one of the main themes, watch out for secret societies...I was mortified in the temple, it is nothing more than MASONRY.

Free Masonry makes no claims about being a religion though. When I started learning about mormonism I was amazed at how much of the ritual was lifted straight from Masonic ritual.

41 posted on 04/27/2008 9:06:41 PM PDT by Graybeard58
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To: Saundra Duffy
Saundra, calm down. It's ok to defend yourself with your mind, I was there, I know the emotional reaction you are having.

Did you know that Joseph Smith married other men's wives in secret ? I didn't, but it's right there in curch history. Did you know he excommunicated David Whitmer (one of the witnesses) after he confronted Smith about having an affair with a 17 year old orphan living with the smith family ? did you know Joseph Smith said this ?....Really...He REALLY SAID THIS !!

"Come on! ye prosecutors! ye false swearers! All hell, boil over! Ye burning mountains, roll down your lava! for I will come out on top at last. I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet...When they can get rid of me, the devil will also go." (History of the Church, Vol. 6, p. 408, 409)

Check it for yourself, but you will have to use a hard copy of the history of the church, the salt lake men have removed this and other "non-faith promoting portions of the history from the church website. It's all a sham !!

42 posted on 04/27/2008 9:08:38 PM PDT by SENTINEL (SGT USMC....TRY BURNING THIS FLAG, ROCKCHUCKER !!)
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To: Soliton; SENTINEL; Graybeard58
The demonization begins.

If the shoe fits.....

It's the only plausible explanation for this group's activities.

It's way overdo that it's been exposed and dealt with and hopefully, it's a death blow for this group at least.

43 posted on 04/27/2008 9:09:27 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: SENTINEL

“Joseph Smith did worse than that, he “married” OTHER MEN’S WIVES and told them to keep it a secret from their husbands.”

Stop it, please. Me think thou protestest a little too much. This thread is supposed to be about the FLDS (who are NOT Mormons). Joseph Smith was a great Prophet, just like Moses - and sure enough they still make fun of Moses to this very day and tell lies about him. By the way, Moses had more than one wife. Joseph Smith left us many kind, sweet, loving pieces of advice. Joseph Smith restored the Church of Jesus Christ. I have no clue why you hate his memory so much. Doesn’t make sense. I love his memory.

If it was all a lie, what the heck were you doing in the bishopric?

Today, we have a Prophet, and he is the Prophet for the whole world, but just like Moses, only a few recognize him.


44 posted on 04/27/2008 9:11:34 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Graybeard58

My point is only that Smith didn’t receive this “new and everlasting covenant” from God as he said, and we have all been taught, but from freemasons. Another lie.


45 posted on 04/27/2008 9:12:35 PM PDT by SENTINEL (SGT USMC....TRY BURNING THIS FLAG, ROCKCHUCKER !!)
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To: Soliton
Child abuse happens in all societies, but is usually not encouraged or condoned by those in authority. To me, this is the real issue and the one that we need to keep in mind.

I wish the article had delved deeper into other FLDS abuses. IMHO, it's an outlaw cult hiding behind the name of religion. Warren Jeffs has a horrid control over everyone - he controls their housing, their jobs, the sheriff, the school, the town government, the available media, everything. Not only are marriages arranged, but also they are dissolved at the whims of the leader. Children suffer as their families are broken apart. One day they have a father, the next day they move and have a new father. Then it can happen again. People who complain are committed to mental hospitals, dropped off on the side of the road, or evicted from their housing. The taxpayers have been cheated for years through welfare fraud and fraud in the school system:

Until the year 2000, all of the children in Colorado City AZ attended public schools. But then the FLDS Prophet, Rulon Jeffs, ordered the faithful to stop all contact with heathen and apostates — which meant anybody who is not FLDS. So about 650 children left the 950 student system. Even though all the church¹s children left, the School Board has remained 100 percent FLDS. Remember this as you read.

Most of the remaining students were from polygamist families also, but they belonged to a smaller, dissenting group called the 2nd Warders — apostates, doomed to hellfire — who live three miles away.

This is a very poor school district, and the board never tried to build its own schools. Instead, they leased space in buildings owned by the FLDS church. After the edict in 2000, the district did not need as much space, so even though some leases were paid up for several years in advance, the board relinquished most of it. Now the church has that space for its own schools.

Every negotiation was a sweetheart deal which favored the church at the expense of the taxpayers.

Next, the school board pleaded poverty to the newly created Arizona School Facilities Board. The facilities in Colorado City were indeed bad, so in 2001 the state built them a new $6 million K-12 school, and we taxpayers paid for it. At about the same time, Arizona launched a program to provide a financial cushion for schools in the event of a rapid decline in enrollment —something usually caused by a major employer shutting down. After the FLDS suddenly removed two-thirds of the students, the Colorado City district qualified. They have received about $1.5 million per year for the past three years under this ‘rapid decline’ program, and will for three more years — about $9 million total. So we paid again.

FLDS teachers were forbidden to teach the heathen and apostate kids, so most of them moved to the new church schools. Most other employees stayed, and the public school district remains the largest employer in the area. It still has 100 employees, for only 300 students now — an outrageously high 3 to 1 ratio.

Every student is now bussed to the new school from outlying areas. And guess what — all the school bus drivers are FLDS who kept their jobs and earn an average salary of $30,000. (The new teachers earn $20,000.)

Starting with the Prophet¹s edict in 2000, the FLDS have crafted a scheme that defrauds Arizona taxpayers on several levels, and it seems that nobody even realizes it. Or nobody cares.

District School Supt. Alvin Barlow has been in his job longer than any other superintendent in the state, so he¹s knowledgeable. (Incidentally, he also has four secretaries and four administrative aides.)

Barlow goes to state surplus property sales and gets school equipment and supplies on the cheap, then shares them with the church schools.

One of the perks of being a public school official in Colorado City is free transportation. The district owns 15 vehicles (mostly big SUVs, vans, and pickups) which are assigned to various administrators and principals who happen to be FLDS. They¹re supposedly for official business, but they get a lot of personal use with the district paying for fuel, maintenance, and insurance. Free use of a large vehicle is a great benefit for a polygamist family.

This little 300 student district also bought an airplane last year — a used Cessna 210, for $220,000 — so the officials can get to meetings easier. Then they contracted with the son of the school board president to fly it for them.

http://helpthechildbrides.com/articles/prescottcourier.htm

46 posted on 04/27/2008 9:13:23 PM PDT by Alice in Wonderland (4-hshootingsports.org)
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To: Saundra Duffy

Joseph Smith was an egomanic. His rantings and justification of immorality show a seriously unbalanced mind.


47 posted on 04/27/2008 9:14:07 PM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: Peter Libra; moder_ator

“A mob burst into the jail where he was being held.”

That’s the only thing you got right about Joseph Smith. He was murdered - no trial, no judge, no jury. By a mob. Apparently, you are OK with that.

Moderator, again, I beg you. This has turned into a bash Mormons thread and tell every outrageous lie about Joseph Smith. I knew I was wrong to come back here but I thought perhaps things had changed.


48 posted on 04/27/2008 9:17:06 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: Soliton
Thanks for trying but we better leave this place. The anti Mormon vultures are out in force. CTR and adios.
49 posted on 04/27/2008 9:19:11 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
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To: metmom

Compared to Brigham Young, Joseph Smith was an angel.


50 posted on 04/27/2008 9:20:00 PM PDT by JRochelle (Keep sweet means shut up and take it.)
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