Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Amid confusion, LDS clarify faith
The Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 04/28/2008 | Lisa Rosetta

Posted on 04/28/2008 7:31:24 PM PDT by ricks_place

Under shower of questions sparked by FLDS raid, LDS members set differences, explain faith

SAN ANGELO, Texas - The Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints' Second Ward here, Jeffrey Bushman, is used to the quizzical looks and sometimes ludicrous questions directed at people of the Mormon faith.

As a missionary in New York 40 years ago, Bushman once was asked if he had devil's horns. He responded by offering to display the place on his head where he had had them sawed off.

“The only thing they knew about us were horns, polygamy and the Tabernacle Choir,” he said.

So when the Fundamental Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints' Yearning for Zion Ranch was raided April 3, sparking a national media frenzy, he and other church members were prepared to field the inevitable questions that would arise.

Do they practice polygamy? Are their children sexually abused?

“I've had a lot of my neighbors come up” and make inquiries, said Bishop Bushman's First Counselor Jared Seegmiller, who explains to them that the FLDS splintered off from the mainstream LDS Church after the latter renounced polygamy and threatened to excommunicate practitioners of plural marriage.

“And that's really the only explanation I've had to give them,” he said. “And they say, 'OK, that makes sense.' ”

Even some of the newest members of the church have approached Bushman to get clear on whether polygamy is still practiced by the LDS.

“We've had to deal just a little bit with trying to make sure some of our members don't think we're part of the same [FLDS] church,” he said.

Texas officials have played a role in the confusion. Even while acknowledging the two religions are separate, Judge Barbara Walther, of the 51st District Court, asked FLDS attorneys on April 21 to find members of local LDS congregations to supervise the FLDS women and children while they prayed.

Bushman was among those who got a call to do it.

“I said, 'No thank you, that's not quite our job,' ” he said. “I would feel a little awkward. . . . I don't want to be a party to something that may or may not be right.”

While some members are upset by the media's lack of distinction between the two churches, most see it as an opportunity for a discussion about the true doctrine underlying their faith.

“Most of them, I think, believe that it has opened up the lines of communication about the church, probably more than anything else that has happened,” Bushman said. “Their friends and their neighbors ask questions.”

While the LDS don't condone polygamy or child abuse, the bishop said, the raid has in some ways forged a small connection between the two religions. The LDS, historically a persecuted group of people, can sympathize with a church under siege.

“Watching them [Texas Rangers] go into the temple down there, going through it, made me think of the Nauvoo era: just run them out and do what they want to with the building,” Bushman said. “Obviously we understand that a little bit. That's in the back of our heads.”

The FLDS, meanwhile, have turned to some LDS for support. One member, a San Angelo medical professional who asked that his name not be printed, said an FLDS client called him shortly after the raid.

The distressed woman didn't ask for help, he said. “[She just] wanted to know someone on the outside cared about them.”


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: antimormons; flds; mormonbashing
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-134 next last
While the LDS don't condone polygamy or child abuse, the bishop said, the raid has in some ways forged a small connection between the two religions.

LDS denial appears very soft and sympathetic to the FLDS.

1 posted on 04/28/2008 7:31:25 PM PDT by ricks_place
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39

ping!


2 posted on 04/28/2008 7:34:11 PM PDT by ricks_place
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place

Did you guys knwo that the Bible says in the latter days seven women will hold onto one man and be called by his name?

Are we in the latter days?


3 posted on 04/28/2008 7:35:40 PM PDT by stockpirate (Be a MAVERICK in the GOP , go against the wishes of our nominee John McCain!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place

Umba gumba bump.


4 posted on 04/28/2008 7:36:01 PM PDT by Leisler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place; greyfoxx39
and sometimes ludicrous questions directed at people of the Mormon faith.

like baptism for the dead, planet kolob, the atonement at Gethsemane, Jos Smiths 14 yr old bride, mountain meadow massacre, Kinderhook plates, changing revelation, the mysterious book of mormon (transcribed in KJV english), the angel moroni, apostolic lineage, freemasonry - etc etc

5 posted on 04/28/2008 7:43:17 PM PDT by Revelation 911
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate

See Isaiah 4:1. Some say it speaks of the last days. On the other hand, I beleive Jesus Christ did away with the polygamy common in the Old Testament when he declared in the Gospel of St. Matthew that “No man can serve two masters.”


6 posted on 04/28/2008 7:47:24 PM PDT by Vigilanteman ((Are there any men left in Washington? Or are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place

What is the thing with horns?

I never in my life heard that silly nonsense.


7 posted on 04/28/2008 7:49:55 PM PDT by JRochelle (Keep sweet means shut up and take it.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman

No you are wrong, he was referring to God and Money!

A man that has two wives doesn’t serve them.

And why any man would even want more than one wife is beyond me.


8 posted on 04/28/2008 7:52:28 PM PDT by stockpirate (Be a MAVERICK in the GOP , go against the wishes of our nominee John McCain!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: JRochelle

Where do you read anything about horns? I can’t find that in the article.


9 posted on 04/28/2008 7:54:05 PM PDT by mamelukesabre (Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: JRochelle

Sounds like something out of Borat. “Throw the Mormon down the well. Throw the Mormon down the well. You must grab him by his horns...”


10 posted on 04/28/2008 7:55:04 PM PDT by elmer fudd (Fukoku kyohei)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman

Funny


11 posted on 04/28/2008 7:55:32 PM PDT by Leisler
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate
I've only got one wife and, beleive me, I serve her. Any man who wants to stay married does.

Those who don't will still be serving her with alimony payments. I don't know why anyone would want more than one wife either, but I also don't understand why some people get turned on by S&M. I just have to recognize that some do.

12 posted on 04/28/2008 7:56:31 PM PDT by Vigilanteman ((Are there any men left in Washington? Or are there only cowards? Ahmad Shah Massoud))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate

Doesn’t matter what the Bible says. Most states have laws which limit marriage to two people. And just to back that up Romans 13:1.


13 posted on 04/28/2008 7:59:31 PM PDT by sabe@q.com (Yes, I'm a SW freak!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place

[The LDS, historically a persecuted group of people, can sympathize with a church under siege.

“Watching them [Texas Rangers] go into the temple down there, going through it, made me think of the Nauvoo era: just run them out and do what they want to with the building,” Bushman said. “Obviously we understand that a little bit. That’s in the back of our heads.”]

Oh Dear Lord, LDS Apologists for Child Rape. Some of us have been telling you all how Joseph Smith’s seed was as evil as it gets.


14 posted on 04/28/2008 8:16:35 PM PDT by FastCoyote (I am intolerant of the intolerable.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: FastCoyote

This article gives the Mormon Bashers a great opportunity to go for it. It doesn’t matter if these two Churches ( LDS vs. FLDS) have been on separate tracks for 100 years, the Mormon Bashers get to place them under the same rug. After all, Evangelicals can always point out that they worship the correct Jesus and others, i.e. Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, Mormons worship some other kind of Jesus.

The Mormon Basher Evangelical has all the truth and every one else doesn’t have any.


15 posted on 04/28/2008 8:38:35 PM PDT by svxdave (Life is too short to wear a fake Rolex.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: svxdave

I wouldn’t have included Seventh Day Adventists in your group.


16 posted on 04/28/2008 8:42:43 PM PDT by liege
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate
These cult members don't support the extra wives - they put them on food stamps and welfare. You and I support them. These men just boink them.

I'm always surprised gay men haven't moved in to take advantage of these gullible women. They could start a cult where the women only have sex for procreation - and teenagers boys are "awarded" to older "profits" for fun. Teen girls not needed to produce new crops of young sexy boys could be run off the "compound"... Just to make it more authentic for the ditsy women, the cult members - ummmmm, religious idiots - could be force to wear long hair in ugly buns and "cover their shame" with cheap long plain dresses. Kind of like the hetro cults...

My feeling is that any women who hands her son or daughter over to a pedophile ( under the gussied up excuse of religion or not) - should be shot. Or given a lethal injection - or whatever the state in her jurisdiction allows.

17 posted on 04/28/2008 8:43:08 PM PDT by GOPJ (Dew knot tryst yore spill chequer too ketch awl yore miss takes... Freeper backhoe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate; greyfoxx39; conservativegramma

the Bible says in the latter days seven women will hold onto one man and be called by his name?
________________________________________________

Source ????

I notice that you have quoted that on several threads without any source...

please supply one...


18 posted on 04/28/2008 8:47:18 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: GOPJ

“My feeling is that any women who hands her son or daughter over to a pedophile ( under the gussied up excuse of religion or not) - should be shot. Or given a lethal injection - or whatever the state in her jurisdiction allows.”

I certainly can understand feeling that way, but what happens to these women is they were also abused as young girls and a lot of women incest surviors pimp their kids to the men they marry, it is what they know as a role model.

It is their internal model of love.

After all they interalize that they turned out okay, even though we know they didn’t.

So you see this whole group of people are all very abused people.

And gay men and women who are pedophiles are doing one even better, they are convincing people to let them ‘adopt’ children.

So the government is providing the pedophiles with children to abuse.


19 posted on 04/28/2008 8:50:58 PM PDT by stockpirate (Be a MAVERICK in the GOP , go against the wishes of our nominee John McCain!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana

Isaiah 4
1And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

Too much coffee.


20 posted on 04/28/2008 8:52:51 PM PDT by stockpirate (Be a MAVERICK in the GOP , go against the wishes of our nominee John McCain!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Tennessee Nana

I sometimes like to stir the pot.

My mom was from Halls Tennessee, how about you?


21 posted on 04/28/2008 8:55:09 PM PDT by stockpirate (Be a MAVERICK in the GOP , go against the wishes of our nominee John McCain!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate

Isaiah 4
1And in that day seven women shall take hold of one man, saying, We will eat our own bread, and wear our own apparel: only let us be called by thy name, to take away our reproach.

Too much coffee.
________________________________________

Too much something...

and I know where the verse is from and where you got your erroneous misuse of the scripture..

http://www.biblicalpolygamy.com/exegesis/seven-women-shall-take-hold-of-one-man/


22 posted on 04/28/2008 8:55:50 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate

My mom was from Halls Tennessee, how about you?
______________________________________________

No, I’m not your Mom...


23 posted on 04/28/2008 8:57:00 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate
Since we are no longer raising boys to become husbands, there is an excess of potential wives.

Informal polygamy is already here.

24 posted on 04/28/2008 8:58:11 PM PDT by Jim Noble (ride 'em like you stole 'em)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate

So the government is providing the pedophiles with children to abuse.
_________________________________________

No, the govt did not...

Thoisd is not the govt’s fault...

The TX govt rescued these sexually abused and brain-washed children...


25 posted on 04/28/2008 8:59:32 PM PDT by Tennessee Nana
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: svxdave

And of course the rape apologists will try to make it all be about religion, discarding the young victims in the process.


26 posted on 04/28/2008 9:17:55 PM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: mamelukesabre
"Where do you read anything about horns? I can’t find that in the article. "

They hid them in the second sentence :).

27 posted on 04/28/2008 9:44:25 PM PDT by matthew fuller (Typical bitter, white American arsenal owner. Amen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place

Agreed. That’s why I think the LDS should also be investigated. They’re all members of Joseph Smith’s cult.


28 posted on 04/28/2008 9:53:25 PM PDT by Antonio C (God bless John McCain, George W. Bush, and our troops)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman

“I don’t know why anyone would want more than one wife either...”

FLDS guys figured out a scam with the government, to make their gals into ATMs.


29 posted on 04/28/2008 9:53:57 PM PDT by truth_seeker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Vigilanteman

One of the reasons Muslims blow themselves up, I reckon, is because death would be preferable to life with FOUR wives.


30 posted on 04/28/2008 10:25:12 PM PDT by Kiss Me Hardy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Antonio C
That’s why I think the LDS should also be investigated.

That's twice I've seen you make this asinine statement. On what basis do you think the LDS Church should be investigated? You want to bring the power of the state to bear upon an upstanding Christian organization, full of patriots and strong MONOGAMOUS families (the vast majority of whom are law-abiding, conservative Republicans, mind you). And you would have the LDS Church investigated for what? On what charges? Please explain who will conduct this investigation and what they are looking for, and how they will explain to the media and the country why the Mormons are being investigated.

I'm really curious. This should be good.

31 posted on 04/28/2008 10:33:04 PM PDT by Choose Ye This Day (Obsessive Ex-Mormons: They can leave the Church, but they can't leave it alone.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Revelation 911

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/commentary/clarifying-polygamy-confusion


32 posted on 04/28/2008 11:15:41 PM PDT by Saundra Duffy (For victory & freedom!!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place

The Baptists also seem soft on Polygamy.
Some of the early Baptists in Germany were polygamist.
Also, in Africa, the Baptists originally allowed their converts to retain their polygamy.

“As must be evident by now, before their missionaries came, one of the major attractions to the BaptistChurch was initial toleration of polygamist. It appeared also that initially the Baptists did not firmly take as negative an attitude to ancestor veneration as did the C.M.S. But according to Agbaluwa, a Baptist minister, the practice was never approved of “but people being so used to it mixed it up a little”.[12] Thus, many who enlisted in that church were at first able not only to keep their harems of wives but also to pay some homage to their departed parents[13] both of which practices were not allowed by the C.M.S. As the Baptist were to change their attitude towards polygamy later, this attraction belonged only to the first phase.”


33 posted on 04/28/2008 11:50:35 PM PDT by broncobilly
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: greyfoxx39; colorcountry; Pan_Yans Wife; MHGinTN; Colofornian; Elsie; FastCoyote; Osage Orange; ...
Ping.
34 posted on 04/29/2008 3:29:42 AM PDT by Zakeet (Be thankful we don't get all the government we pay for)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Saundra Duffy

thanks sandra - but I didnt mention polygamy


35 posted on 04/29/2008 3:30:43 AM PDT by Revelation 911
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Revelation 911

Does the Vatican still rack and torture non believers to get them to confess to devil possession?

Isn’t it true the Protestants in Massachusetts and Connecticut still burn witches, and dunk them in ponds seven times until they confess to worshiping Satan?

Just curious.


36 posted on 04/29/2008 3:51:41 AM PDT by Edit35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Antonio C
That’s why I think the LDS should also be investigated.

Perhaps the entire Roman Catholic church should be investigated for kiddy porn, due to the homo priests. Where there's smoke, there's fire, I always say.

psyche/

37 posted on 04/29/2008 3:58:00 AM PDT by Edit35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

To: Kiss Me Hardy
One of the reasons Muslims blow themselves up, I reckon, is because death would be preferable to life with FOUR wives.

Nope, the ones with four wives do just fine - it's the large numbers of "excess" men who live in rage that are the problem.

Mormon cults dump teenage boys on city streets to join the homeless while Muslim cultures live in endless states of war to kill them off...

Yeah, it's charming...

38 posted on 04/29/2008 4:04:52 AM PDT by GOPJ (Rev. Wright "ministered" to Bill Clinton after Monica. Is that a hint?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate
So the government is providing the pedophiles with children to abuse.

For a minute there, I thought you were referring to the government providing tax breaks to people who send their kids to Catholic schools which have homosexual priests.

psyche/

39 posted on 04/29/2008 4:07:13 AM PDT by Edit35
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: svxdave; FastCoyote
...the Mormon Bashers get to place them under the same rug. After all, Evangelicals can always point out that they worship the correct Jesus and others, i.e. Jehovah’s Witnesses, Seventh Day Adventists, Christian Scientists, Mormons worship some other kind of Jesus. The Mormon Basher Evangelical has all the truth and every one else doesn’t have any. [svxdave]

Who put you on a pedestal to bash those who oppose the system of Mormon-ism? You make it very plain you opposing "bashing"--at least of Mormons. But then you turn right around and bash away.

So which is it? You mean it's not OK for these folks to oppose falsehood, but it's somehow OK for you. (What special dispensation did you give yourself to violate your own personal standard?)

How about being consistent, then, to your own personal standard. If you don't like what YOU PERCEIVE as "bashing," then don't start engaging in it. (Otherwise, it just becomes endless "escalation")

40 posted on 04/29/2008 4:29:12 AM PDT by Colofornian (What's a planetary compound w/a local god ruling polygamous wives? LDS celestial kingdom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate; ricks_place
Did you guys knwo that the Bible says in the latter days seven women will hold onto one man and be called by his name? Are we in the latter days?

What % of the polygamists have or have had exactly seven wives? (Not very many? Oh.)

41 posted on 04/29/2008 4:31:03 AM PDT by Colofornian (What's a planetary compound w/a local god ruling polygamous wives? LDS celestial kingdom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: stockpirate; Vigilanteman
Did you guys knwo that the Bible says in the latter days seven women will hold onto one man and be called by his name? Are we in the latter days?

All true believing Mormons, whether they be fundie or ex-fundie (mainstream), don't believe the prophet Isaiah's plain later words (like Is. 44:8 & 43:10). So why should they attach themselves to obscure and less plainly obvious words like Is. 4:1?

Isaiah: Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any. (Isaiah 44:8)

If Isaiah's God doesn't know of any gods besides Him, that's good enough for me. You? (But the average true believing Mormon openly denies this; for first of all, LDS leaders make out Jesus and the Holy Ghost to be separate "gods" than the Father and LDS "Scripture" in its "Book of Abraham" talks about a "council of gods.")

In the chapter before that, Isaiah gives a testimony whereby he knows of no gods formed before him or after him (Isaiah 43:10). Either the Mormons have a totally dunce god, a god who hit his head & suffers amnesia & can't forecast the future, or "Oops!" Smith stumbled over following thru on his read-the-bible-thru-in-a-year course and missed those verses prior to his book of the dead "Book of Abraham" & his King Follett sermon.

So according to Isaiah 43:10, no Mormon will reach his "ultimate objective" of becoming a god.

42 posted on 04/29/2008 4:35:15 AM PDT by Colofornian (What's a planetary compound w/a local god ruling polygamous wives? LDS celestial kingdom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian

I do not support any thing these POS have done.

I just recalled the verse from years ago and was able to find it via goolge so I asked.

I was not implying anything, just wondering what some thought about the verse.

Me, I don’t see how any man could even want several wives, hell it is hard enough to be with one.

But of course these pother women are just sex toys and not really a realionship so it is different.

I think adult sexual child abusers should be put to death.

And lets all remember that Ruth Bader Ginsburg once wrote a paper advocting the age of consent be lowered to 11 years old.

So for the left to be raising hell over this is sort of pot and kettle kind of thing.


43 posted on 04/29/2008 4:47:19 AM PDT by stockpirate (Be a MAVERICK in the GOP , go against the wishes of our nominee John McCain!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place
“I've had a lot of my neighbors come up” and make inquiries, said Bishop Bushman's First Counselor Jared Seegmiller, who explains to them that the FLDS splintered off from the mainstream LDS Church after the latter renounced polygamy and threatened to excommunicate practitioners of plural marriage.

You can tell that Mormons' PR agents aren't Paul Harvey types (who supply "the rest of the story"). I'd like to see Bishoip Bushman's answer when his neighbors come up to him holding a copy of LDS apostle's Bruce McConkie's Mormon Doctrine, 1966 edition:

"Obviously the holy practice (of polygamy) will commence again after the Second Coming of the Son of Man and the ushering in of the millennium." (Mormon Doctrine, 1966 edition, see pp. 577-579 for context)

Uh, Mr. McConkie...I know you're deceased...but maybe one of your proxies can explain how it is that LDS regard polygamy as you a "holy practice" and yet it will ex-communicate those who practice this "holy practice?"

Furthermore, how can a Mormon being ex-communicated if they are merely living as Brigham Young, Joseph Smith and the other 70 deceased LDS polygamist general authorities (their top leaders)?

"Families are forever"--the Mormon bumper sticker--is too widely known for LDS leaders to try to weave & bob around that...oh, polygamy is terrible, a communicable disease that will get you ex-communicated...oh, wait, up to 1/3rd of the Mormon church was once polygamous and they are now living on their own planet with many wives...plus thousands of others have been sealed to multiple spouses (men AND women) "for eternity" in the Mormon temple--people who have been married serially & not simultaneously as a polygamist...they, too, become colonized polygamists the moment they & their spouses have died.

(No wonder it gets terribly confusing to ex-fundie mainstream Mormons...how can they condemn a practice other "faithful" Mormons are engaging in on other planets and will one day be re-instated on the Mormon earth).

44 posted on 04/29/2008 4:56:06 AM PDT by Colofornian (What's a planetary compound w/a local god ruling polygamous wives? LDS celestial kingdom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Rock&RollRepublican
"Does the Vatican still rack and torture non believers to get them to confess to devil possession?"

Just Druids, so in this case Mormons are lucky.

"Isn’t it true the Protestants in Massachusetts and Connecticut still burn witches, and dunk them in ponds seven times until they confess to worshiping Satan?"

You've got it backwards; dunk then light, dunk then light. The idea being that only a witch can burn after good dunking. Those who don't light up are treated to readily available BBQ.

"Just curious."

You're welcome.

45 posted on 04/29/2008 4:59:18 AM PDT by Enosh (†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place
From the article: Texas officials have played a role in the confusion. Even while acknowledging the two religions are separate, Judge Barbara Walther, of the 51st District Court, asked FLDS attorneys on April 21 to find members of local LDS congregations to supervise the FLDS women and children while they prayed. Bushman was among those who got a call to do it. “I said, 'No thank you, that's not quite our job,' ” he said. “I would feel a little awkward. . . . I don't want to be a party to something that may or may not be right.”

Well, Bushman is right about one thing--it's really NOT the primary role of an LDS bishop to go around & be in a prayer environment with others--like you might see a Protestant pastor do at times. The main role of an LDS bishop is to literally "judge" the heart of its ward members. (He has to ask about 18 questions of the ward members to determine if they are "spiritually worthy" to receive a temple recommend from him).

So, had the judge asked him to be a judge, well, that would have been more up his alley. Prayer supervision? Well, as he said, "No, thank you. That's not quite our job."

46 posted on 04/29/2008 5:01:04 AM PDT by Colofornian (What's a planetary compound w/a local god ruling polygamous wives? LDS celestial kingdom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place

I saw the Mormon kid next door reading Harry Potter one day. The Mormons must worship Harry Potter.


47 posted on 04/29/2008 5:09:17 AM PDT by AppyPappy (If you aren't part of the solution, there is good money to be made prolonging the problem.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Colofornian; ricks_place
The LDS Church is trying desperately to convince the world that the LDS Church really didn't exist until 1890 when they sorta officially kinda put an end to the common practice of having WORTHY dirty old men marry themselves to young breeding stock.

I think it would be fair to say that the FLDS Church was established in 1830 by Polygamists Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and the "Modern LDS Church" (as I see a lot of LDS members refer to themselves) was founded by Wilford Woodruff in 1890.

48 posted on 04/29/2008 5:38:34 AM PDT by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: P-Marlowe
I think it would be fair to say that the FLDS Church was established in 1830 by Polygamists Joseph Smith and Brigham Young and the "Modern LDS Church" (as I see a lot of LDS members refer to themselves) was founded by Wilford Woodruff in 1890.

Exactly. Good insight.

I found some of these stats "interesting" & confirm your assessment:

Q. How successful were polygamist marriages? A. There were over 2000 divorces granted prior to the 1890 Manifesto. Brigham Young himself granted 1,645. Of the 72 general authorities who were polygamists, 39 had broken marriages, including 54 divorces, 26 separations and 1 annulment. (Utah Historical Quarterly, Winter 1978, p4)

Sandra Tanner gave a rundown on the number of wives & children of 7 LDS polygamous "prophets," who quotes LDS publications: Source: http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/ldsleadersbelievepolygamyinheaven.htm

Tanner: It should be noted that the first seven presidents of the LDS Church practiced plural marriage. For example, my great-great grandfather Brigham Young was married to over 50 women and fathered at least 56 children. His successor was Apostle John Taylor, who had 14 wives and 36 children. 22 First Seven Presidents of the LDS Church were Polygamists
1. Joseph Smith, President from 1830-1844, at least 33 wives, 7 children by Emma, unknown if any by plural wives.
2. Brigham Young, President from 1847-1877, over 50 wives, 56 children.
3. John Taylor, President from 1880-1887, at least 14 wives, approx. 36 children.
4. Wilford Woodruff, President from 1889-1898, at least 10 wives, approx. 34 children.
5. Lorenzo Snow, President from 1898-1901, at least 9 wives, 33 children.
6. Joseph F. Smith, President from 1901-1918, 6 wives, 43 children.
7. Heber J. Grant, President from 1918-1945, 3 wives, 12 children. According to LDS doctrine, these men will have all of their faithful wives and children with them in the resurrection, which would mean they will be living polygamy in the Celestial Kingdom.

The LDS Church is trying desperately to convince the world that the LDS Church really didn't exist until 1890 when they sorta officially kinda put an end to the common practice of having...dirty old men marry themselves to young breeding stock.

Indeed. Not only did authors like B. Carmon Hardy document LDS leader hypocrisy in granting another known 260+ plural "marriages" between 1890-1910, but its sanctioning continued from the top down over several "prophets"--making the LDS "prophets" guilty of duplicity & rendering its office as unbelievable.

The following is a pretty good Q&A of basic info: http://www.i4m.com/think/polygamy/polygamy_summary.htm

Q. Did Mormons obey the Manifesto ending polygamy? A. >No, many did not. In fact, church President Joseph F. Smith's wives bore him 13 children after the Manifesto, even though he publicly testified he was not "cohabiting" with them. (Dialogue, Spring 1985, p.83) At least 3,300 children were born to Mormon men who married polygamously with official LDS Church authority from 1890 through 1904. (Dialogue, Spring 1985, pp. 3-104)

Q. What do you mean "with LDS Church authority?" Did the church sanction polygamy after the Manifesto? A. Yes, church leaders continued the practice. Many top church leaders, including apostles were known to have taken additional wives after the 1890 Manifesto. (Utah Historical Quarterly, Winter 1980, pp. 9, 19) There is also strong evidence that Church President Wilford Woodruff, 8 years after issuing the Manifesto outlawing polygamy, married a Madame Mountford in Sept. 1897. (Wilford Woodruff Journals, 1896-97)

49 posted on 04/29/2008 6:05:35 AM PDT by Colofornian (What's a planetary compound w/a local god ruling polygamous wives? LDS celestial kingdom)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

To: ricks_place
Amid confusion, LDS clarify faith
 
 
I challenge ANY MORMON's in these threads to CLARIFY just what was UNTRUE about PRESBYTERIANISM that Joseph Smith claimed to have LEARNED!
 

 
http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19
  17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other—This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
  18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)—and which I should join.
  19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
  20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, “Never mind, all is well—I am well enough off.” I then said to my mother,
“I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true.”

50 posted on 04/29/2008 6:25:20 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-5051-100101-134 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson