Posted on 04/29/2008 7:58:36 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
US Marines poured into a lawless town in Afghanistan’s southern Helmand province — the first time a sizeable American force has fought in the largely British sector of the country for several years.
About 2,400 Marines, many veterans of the war in Iraq, were involved in the dawn assault on Garmser. Helicopters and armoured vehicles surrounded the town, known as a Taleban stronghold and big staging post for drug traffickers involved in the thriving opium trade in Helmand.
“We haven’t seen anybody who isn’t carrying a gun,” said Major Tom Clinton, the commander of US forces at Forward Operating Base Dwyer, a small British camp ten miles (15km) west of Garmser. “They are trying to figure out what we are doing. They are shooting at us, letting us know they are there.”
Captain Kelly Frushour, a Marine spokeswoman, said American forces had sealed off the town and entered some areas but that the operation was continuing. The Marines came under machinegun and rocket fire. They also recovered rockets and bomb-making equipment. There were no reports of casualties. It is unlikely that the Marines, whose deployment was announced weeks ago as part of a US-led build-up of troops, will have surprised any Taleban commanders. The size and speed of their attack, however, will serve notice to insurgents in Helmand that this is likely to be a long, hard-fought summer. Both sides expect the violence to increase sharply after the poppy harvest, Helmand’s main commodity, is completed in the coming days and weeks.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesonline.co.uk ...
The Marines have arrived ping!
Just like in Basra. We do the work the brits won’t.
April 29, 2008
US Marines to ‘stir things up’ in Helmand
*************************EXCERPT***********************
The first US Marines of a new expeditionary force were deployed in Afghanistan’s troubled Helmand province yesterday, promising new and more aggressive tactics in an implicit criticism of the British operation there.
General Dan McNeill, the commander of Nato forces in Afghanistan, said that the Marine expeditionary force of about 3,500 troops would “stir things up” in remote southern districts of Helmand, where few if any Nato troops have operated in the past seven years.
“We want to establish and maintain a force here and take the pressure off the forces in the north,” he said.
As well as getting added firepower, the British will also come under pressure to adopt American counter-insurgency tactics as the US tries to lead a “mini-surge” to fill the gaps in the Nato alliance’s ranks. The deployment is being regarded as a tacit admission that, after two years in Helmand, British troops have failed to dim the insurgency or to have an impact on opium production, currently the highest in Afghanistan.
BTTT
Urban renewal, American-style!
> Just like in Basra. We do the work the brits won’t.
They are probably working to different Rules of Engagement. Unlike the US, the Brits *do* have to care about what the French and Germans think.
The Brits, Australians, Canadians, Americans et al are all doing an extraordinary job, if one group occasionally ask for the assistants of another group why does that require an offhand remark?
The Marines along with our ally brothers will see that the Helmand province is vastly changed come next winter. Which is all part of the process of pulling Stan back out of the dark ages. Reality is Stan has come a tremendous way since 01. People simply have no clue. And the MSM want to do everything possible to not let this reality out.
These Marines will have a major impact here (and the MSM will 1. ignore 90% of their successes and 2. Act shocked at the 10% they do report.
“They are probably working to different Rules of Engagement. Unlike the US, the Brits *do* have to care about what the French and Germans think.”
So Ironic...the brits bend over for peoples they saved a mere 60 years ago...
> So Ironic...the brits bend over for peoples they saved a mere 60 years ago...
Made doubly so because when they joined the EC they walked out on their special deals with their Commonwealth members, like New Zealand, who saved their ass during the Battle of Britain.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m thankful for the help but lets be honest-the British effort in Basra did nothing to justify THEIR offhand comments about the so called “failed” offensive that is finally getting rid of the Basra gangs.
I guess it all goes back to WW2, the brits get to do their bombing raids on Germany at night while the US has to do it during the day. Its not that we’re not thankful but lets be real about who’s doing the real work.
Thanks Ernest.
Oh bull.
You been asleep for the last 18 months?. No matter what you think of British tactics in Basra, the UK has been doing a brilliant job in Helmand and Afghanistan.
Reality 101.
Until there were sufficient ISF to hold, sending UK troops in to take was a waste of time and resources.
One year ago there was one brigade of IA in Basrah.
Six months ago there was one new IA division, one ISOF Bn, and an understrength INP brigade.
One month ago the ISF forces in Basrah were found to be insufficient despinte being a full division (although green).
There are two IA Divisions in Basrah and the additional are among the best in the IA. There are two INP Brigades in Basrah and the additional INP is also from their best. The ISOF bn has its own helo support from the IqAF.
Now we know what was needed to deal with Basrah. Two and a half divisions.
The UK never fielded more than one Division to Iraq because they only have three and part of their forces are in Afghanistan...
Basrah was an economy of force mission for the UK. Until the ISF could spare the forces to properly deal with it, anything they did was going to be a waste...
As to the UK press reports, anytime the source is not named, the report is not credible...
Good point...unfortunately the mix of NATO troops from countries in mainland europe are borderline worthless. Brits, Australians, Canadians, Americans can fight and will.
Correct and well said. Lacking the forces to do their own surge, the British seem to have adopted the Chindit model - train the locals to do the job (it being their country after all).
This is why one reads about Afghani artillerymen doing sterling work against the Taliban. This is how one gets a trained Iraqi army capable (with the support of embeds) of destroying Sadr's little army. It's not magic - except to FR's most clueless.
.....Helicopters and armoured vehicles surrounded the town...
This is interesting. A Fox reporter on the ground indicated that there was a fierce firefight in the night and a cobra was called in and the Hellfire missle destroyed a house. He reported 30 Taliban were killed.
The Marines now control the roads and town. He implied the strong Taliban force fled. This report would seem to indicate that there was no way for them to flee and the force was exterminated.
I expect to hear about a lot of goons being shot and blown up in the days to come. The Marines have landed.
ExCellent news! Let the Devil Dogs do what they do best.. engage and destroy the enemy.
Do you Yanks get ANY news on British or Australian operations?.
The British ineffective in Helmand?. British troops have done a first class job in Afghanistan and at one point last year were two months ahead of military schedule...
There have been numerous regular threads here at FR on the British in Helmand, inc the Sky One documentary which followed the troops on the ground.
There is no excuse therefore for any regular FR’ers to claim that the British in Helmand/Afghanistan have been ineffective.
Unfortunately, Afghanistan is the “forgotten war” in the American media. Very little news or facts are known there about that war. This could be the reason some people are making such uninformed comments about the Brits in Afghanistan.
Um...ok. Basra???
Yes, by all means criticise the British operations in Basra, I have myself, although our troops and commanders are hamstrung by idiot politicians back home.
I am just bemused by how little our closest allies seem to know about British ops, esp in Afghanistan. We know every op your troops go on, it is covered in our news, yet non-American operations, even British, seem not to covered by the American media. As a result, there is ignorance about what ‘your allies’ are doing.
The British have done a first rate job in Helmand and one could easily argue they have been doing much of the heavy lifting in Afghanistan over the last 12-18 months, or at the very least a disproportionate amount.
Thats fine...Helmand is a work of art. Not to worry, there is no shortage of politicians here trying to screw up our efforts on the war front. Also, its no surprise that the media isnt covering the British war effort....unless we are loosing scores of our finest young men and women everyday...they dont cover our efforts either.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2010697/posts
Thats a thread that lets us know of the 95th British serviceman to die in Afghanistan. We have been fighting with the Estonians and Danes in Helmand now for 2 years, and have made significant inroads into the Taleban. Gone are the mass wave attacks of before, our troops gave them such a fearful stuffing as they tried to overrun our bases they have resorted to asymmetrical warfare. We have killed thousands of the enemy, and brought much needed reconstruction to Central and Northern Helmand, such as Lashkah Gar and around the Kajaki Dam area. We retook Musa Qala after being forced to abandon it last year because your mob weren’t willing to commit troops and help re-supply our F.O.B there.
Our near 8,000 troops can never control the ground in Helmand, but we can set the conditions for the Afghan Army to take the lead role. Post the World Trade Centre attacks in New York, the US failed to commit troops to Afghanistan, and those that did stayed nice and safe near Kabul. Your had a tenth of the force in the UK has covering Helmand and this allowed the Talibs to regroup, recruit and rearm. You asked for NATO help because you weren’t capable of doing it yourself, and your mistakes from 01-05 helped us find ourselves in the situation we are in now. Your troops are going in to win a few battles and get some headlines for the politico’s back in Washington, but it is the Brits and her allies that re going to have to stay the long haul for the next 5 years at least.
So MR icwhatudon’t, you are so wrong. You bring shame to name of all decent US FReepers that are fair and considered in there views.
Insulting comment mate. Is a bit of reason and humility too much to ask for from a Yankee?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2010697/posts
“Made doubly so because when they joined the EC they walked out on their special deals with their Commonwealth members, like New Zealand, who saved their ass during the Battle of Britain.”
Why is it that everyone but we Brits saved ourselves during WW2 and the Battle of Britain? If its not our Commonwealth allies, then its your Yanks.
No doubt you’re one of the repards who thought that Pearl Harbour with Ben Affleck was a historical documentary!!! ‘If only we had some more of you Yanks’ says the Brit Squadron Leader. (Only 7 Yanks flew in the Battle)
Fact is, yes, our allies helped greatly in the Battle of Britain. The superb Poles (139 pilots), the New Zealanders (98), the Canadians (86), the Czechs (84) and other amounts from 30 to a single pilot from other nations such as the US, Australia, Belgium, Ireland, South Africa, France, Jamaica, Palestine and Rhodesia.
“The British Royal Air Force (RAF) and Fleet Air Arm (FAA) utilised non-British personnel from the beginning of World War II. The RAF roll of honour for the Battle of Britain recognises 574 pilots from countries other than the United Kingdom, as flying at least one authorised operational sortie with an eligible unit during the period of 10 July to 31 October 1940, alongside 2,353 British pilots.” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain_Foreign_Contribution)
So thats 574 ‘foreign’ pilots, to well over 2,000 British pilots. Good help well received, but ‘saving our butts’? I dont think so sunshine.
While thankful for the thread you posted, I am disappointed in your tone Ernest, as you give wind to the fire of anti-British sentiment that is ever present on FR.
Dont take it too personally mate. Unless a Yank has there information spoon fed to them like their meals, they wont be bothered going to the trouble of finding out for themselves. For all they cry about the media, it is their only source of information, and with personal knowledge, they honestly couldn’t give a fizz about anything East of Boston.
Sorry for the late reply. You write:
> Why is it that everyone but we Brits saved ourselves during WW2 and the Battle of Britain? If its not our Commonwealth allies, then its your Yanks.
Possibly because there were a fair few foreign people involved in saving Britain in WWII, and most especially during the Battle of Britain. During that time, between 20% and 25% of the pilots fighting alongside the RAF were foreign.
> No doubt you’re one of the repards who thought that Pearl Harbour with Ben Affleck was a historical documentary!!!
I never saw the movie. I have been to Pearl Harbor, tho’. What’s a “repard?” I’m a Kiwi btw.
> ‘If only we had some more of you Yanks’ says the Brit Squadron Leader. (Only 7 Yanks flew in the Battle)
The 7 Yanks who flew for Britain during the battle were almost certainly violating US Law at the time. A fairly generous gesture on their part, I would have thought.
127 New Zealand air crew fought in the Battle of Britain. Not bad for a tiny country on a couple of small islands in the South Pacific.
Of the foreign participants flying for the RAF, only Poland contributed more pilots than NZ.
> So thats 574 ‘foreign’ pilots, to well over 2,000 British pilots. Good help well received, but ‘saving our butts’? I dont think so sunshine.
Britain may well have run out of trained combat-ready fighter pilots during the Battle of Britain without its foreign pilots. I think “saving your butts” is probably not inaccurate or unfair in that context, sunshine.
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