Posted on 05/03/2008 12:23:22 AM PDT by JohnHuang2
The classic definition of socialism is: government control of the sources of production. A bill now before Congress, H.R. 2421, will give the federal government absolute control over all sources of production. This bill, if enacted, will instantly convert the United States into a socialist nation.
The debate, however, is not about the merits of socialism over capitalism and free markets; the debate is about water. The bill will give to the federal government control over all water in the United States, and control over all "… activities affecting these waters."
Water is essential in the production of virtually everything. If the government controls water, and all "activities affecting these waters," then the government controls the sources of production.
There is absolutely no need for the government to take this draconian step. Water is already regulated far beyond necessity. The control and regulation of water has stripped property rights from people in every state – often for no definable public benefit. This bill will destroy the last vestige of the idea of private property rights.
(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...
Ping!
Somehow, I don’t see this one passing.
Aren’t most water districts municipal? Call me a nationalist, but I don’t want the EU checking my meter.
(I know there’s more to this story)
H.R. 2421 doesn't exist according to the link in the article. Thomas government locator cannot find this bill.
Kinda defeats the credibility of the article. But as Dan Rather would say, "The gist of the article is true."
yitbos
Sponsor: Rep. James Oberstar [D-MN]show cosponsors (173) Cosponsors [as of 2008-01-27] Almost every Democrat in the House Status: Introduced May 22, 2007
This bill is in the first step in the legislative process. Introduced bills go first to committees that deliberate, investigate, and revise them before they go to general debate. The majority of bills never make it out of committee. Keep in mind that sometimes the text of one bill is incorporated into another bill, and in those cases the original bill, as it would appear here, would seem to be abandoned. [Last Updated: Jan 26, 2008]
Last Action: May 23, 2007: Referred to the Subcommittee on Water Resources and Environment.
yitbos
The summary is taken from the official website THOMAS.
5/22/2007--Introduced.
Clean Water Restoration Act of 2007 - Amends the Federal Water Pollution Control Act (commonly known as the Clean Water Act) to replace the term "navigable waters," throughout the Act, with the term "waters of the United States," defined to mean all waters subject to the ebb and flow of the tide, the territorial seas, and all interstate and intrastate waters and their tributaries, including lakes, rivers, streams (including intermittent streams), mudflats, sandflats, wetlands, sloughs, prairie potholes, wet meadows, playa lakes, natural ponds, and all impoundments of the foregoing, to the fullest extent that these waters, or activities affecting them, are subject to the legislative power of Congress under the Constitution.
Declares that nothing in such Act shall be construed as affecting the authority of the Secretary of the Army or the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) under the provisions of the Federal Water Pollution Control Act related to discharges: (1) composed entirely of agricultural return flows; (2) of stormwater runoff from oil, gas, and mining operations; or (3) of dredged or fill materials resulting from normal farming, silviculture, and ranching activities or from activities with respect to which a state has an approved program, or for the purposes of maintenance of currently serviceable structures or drainage ditches, construction or maintenance of farm or stock ponds, irrigation ditches, or farm, forest, or temporary roads for moving mining equipment, or construction of temporary sedimentation basins on construction sites.
I’m reading...
Also, the Clean Water Act use the term “navigable waters,” “navigable waters of the United States” and “navigablity.” These terms are dependent on judicial interpretation and are somewhat more flexible currently, in light of a U.S. Supreme Court decision on two joined cases: “Carabell v. United States” and “Rapanos vs. United States”[1].
Rapanos vs. United States
The CWA requires landowners to obtain permits before they discharge fill material into “navigable waters.” Congress has defined “navigable waters” as “waters of the United States, including the territorial seas.” The Army Corps of Engineers has defined “waters of the United States” to include wetlands “adjacent” to other waters of the United States. The district court relied on the Corps’ regulation as supporting CWA jurisdiction over the Rapanos’ lands.
Carabell v. Army Corps of Engineers
The CWA requires landowners to obtain permits from the Corps before they discharge fill material into “navigable waters.” Congress has defined “navigable waters” as “waters of the United States, including the territorial seas.” The Corps has defined “waters of the United States” to include wetlands “adjacent” to other waters of the United States. The Sixth Circuit Court of Appeals held that the Carabells’ property contains wetlands adjacent to neighboring tributaries of navigable waters of the United States. Specifically, the Carabells’ property is separated only by a manmade berm from a ditch that connects to the Sutherland-Oemig Drain, which connects to Lake St. Clair. Accordingly, the Carabells’ property is not isolated from waters of the United States but constitutes “adjacent wetlands” within the meaning of the CWA.
http://www.law.duke.edu/publiclaw/supremecourtonline/certGrants/2005/rapvuni
Private property rights were trampled long ago. Congress and the Supremes stowed the Constitution in the back of the drawer long ago because it was so inconvenient to their liberal desires.
Time for secession.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-2421
This might not help, but this is what I found.
yitbos
Agenda 21?
WND distort things? I’m SHOCKED! ;-)
Actually, fascism would be a better word to describe what’s going on in this country.
People are given the illusion of owning property, but property is in fact tightly controlled by the state, for the common good as determined by the state. Fascism is a much more efficient form of Marxism as it gives people the illusion of freedom while the state steals everything they own - their rights, their property..
Hitler spoke quiite clearly on this matter of state control of private property. Private ownership was allowed provided property owners carried out the mandates and goals of the state. Hitler said he wanted each owner of property to consider himself a caretaker of private property, and the wishes of the state would always supercede the desires of the individual.
This is a much better situation for the state as individuals not only care for the property, they also are forced to pay tribute to the rulers in the form of ever increasing taxes.
People in many states are quite satisfied with fascist governance. They have the illusion of freedom while, in fact, being treated as serfs by the state.
This fascist nonsense should have been stopped 100 years ago by congress. Woodrow Wilson should have been impeached, dragged out of the whitehouse and hanged on the lawn for treason. Now it’s going to be much more difficult to reclaim our property rights.
water is the next crude oil....same for wheat and rice....which puts us in a different position doesnt it ?
Rapanos vs. United States
Actually this case is much more complex, and the synopsis posted is dead wrong.
The US district court judge sided quite strongly with Rapanos and this judge was shot down by the Marxists in black robes in the appeals court.
Rapanos never filled in navigable waters or so-called wetlands on his property. He argued that a permit wasn’t needed to fill in a 100 year old drainage ditch. And under both state and federal law no permit is needed. The nearest navigable water was 20 miles away.
The thieving nazis at the EPA argued that all water could be regulated because of the “migratory molecule rule,” which these bastard bureaucrats made up out of thin air. In other words, because water might be evaporated by the sun and fall as rain into navigable waters, the EPA had control of Rapanos land and what he did there.
The pigs at EPA engaged in trespass, theft, perjury and various other illegal acts. Every one of them should be sitting in prison right now. I’d prefer they be hanged.
People in many states are quite satisfied with fascist governance.
You’re right. That’s one big reason I left PA.
It's come time to start mobilizing to be ready to take back our government...start melting plowshares..we cannot afford to let these imbeciles do this to our country.
bookmark for later
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Defined usually as : any stream capable of floating an opinion of the court .
Water is legally a mineral and aside from those few who have mineral rights to their real estate is and has been the property of Gummint. The Bill is pointless.
No fair topping me for silly remark of the day on the very next post .
Oh, no, your post is eminently superior. :)
If you want an example of fascism, take a look at the Supreme Court ruling of Kelo vs. City of New London. Worst SCOTUS ruling since Roe vs. Wade, imho. It expanded the government’s eminent domain capabilities and imho, virtually destroyed the whole concept of owner’s rights and private property.
>>sergeantdave wrote: Actually, fascism would be a better word to describe what’s going on in this country.
I would concur, and recommend Noah Goldberg’s new book Liberal Fascism for a lot of reasons why.
I know the west coast tried to get some of the Great Lakes’ water. The action was stopped - for now.
read later
Congress to transform America to Socialism?
Yes.
“migratory molecule rule”
Oh, boy! Thanks for the corrections.
bookmarking for later
Congress has no such power, viz., Amendment V: "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation".
I live on land which has recently been impacted by an act of pretended legislation, the Comprehensive Shoreland Protection Act. This "law" eviscerates the value of my property by turning over its control to an unelected department of the government.
If this is not "taking", I don't know what is.
I guess you prefer CNN as your news source.
Henry Lamb is absolutely correct in this article.
“If the people who cherish freedom over government control fail to find and elect like-minded representatives, then freedom will continue to fade and government control – socialism – will continue to flourish.”
I hope you rest easy in your socialist paradise.
Hopefully it’s only you.
“The Bill is pointless.”
It isn’t pointless, it’s purpose is just what Mr. Lamb said it is. Socialism codified, giving Gubmint control over all production.
Do you support this legislation?
Just a couple of example points....
-The bill isn't "before Congress"--it has been introduced (last year) and hasn't even made it out of committeen (no action since July of last year).
-It doesn't claim "all the water in the US"...it redefines the "waters" of the US in a very encompassing manner, yes, but that's very different from "all the water."
“If the people who cherish freedom over government control fail to find and elect like-minded representatives, then freedom will continue to fade and government control – socialism – will continue to flourish.”
This part is spot on.
I hope you rest easy in your socialist paradise.
This is an oxymoron, with humans being what they are.
Nice try, distorting what I wrote. but you forget that your misrepresentation is there for everyone to see, when they go back upthread to see that my points were right.
It's pointless, as are most Bills.
It already happened when Wickard v Filburn destroyed the commerce clause and the necessary and proper clause. The government can now regulate anything that it wants for any reason, no matter how petty.
I found it using the link. Put "H.R. 2421" into the box under Search Bill Text and click the radio button labeled Bill Number. Then click on the Search Button.
What you should see is the text of H.R. 2421, whose main thrust is to eliminate "navigable waterways" from the Federal Water Pollution Control Act wherever it appears, and replace that term with "waters of the United States." Knowing our bureaucrats, and the extensive definition of U.S. waters in the bill, we could see government control over every large puddle in the land.
Long overdue for some government officials, I'm sure.
Gummint owns all the water? Well, then, they’d betted get all that damned water to behave. It’s out there, everywhere, washing away homes, flooding streams, and pouring down from the sky. It shows no deference to its masters whatsoever. The government, as usual, neglects what it owns. :-)
free dixie,sw
But...there is an upside. I can't wait to hear all the liberals in Frederick, MD (who probably supported this crap) bitch and moan when they can't cut down trees on their own properties or whatever due to enviro restrictions concurrent with the heritage area designation. And let's just see those libs try to start businesses without running afoul of federal heritage area zoning restrictions, heh-heh!
IF I GOTTA SUFFER, THEY GOTTA SUFFER ALONG WITH ME!!!!! AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAAAAAA!!!
Yes, but the bill is sitting in committee, with no action on it since last summer. While we should keep an eye on it, it’s not “just about to be passed.”
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