Hagel says it's time to unwind from Iraq

Journalstar.com ^ | 5-2-2008 | Don Walton

[A. Morgan]

[mkjessup]

Too bad you didn’t learn about “STFU, you stupid RINO”, ya hear that Hagel?

[A_Former_Democrat]

It’s time for Hagel to unwind from politics.

[MCCRon58]

It appears Hagel is just another of today's breed of politician.

Spending copious quantities of hot air decrying the “crisis” while providing no solutions. And heaven forbid he even look at answering the question of “If I get what i want, Then What???”

Such is the genesis of the Law of Unintended Consequences.

[Waco]

Do the best you can, Bin Ladin don’t like a slacker. And he has NOT called off this war!!

[Always A Marine]

Chuck Hagel: just one more example of why I quit giving money to the RNC. I do not trust party hacks to spend my donations, and only give to individual candidates.

[Dutch Boy]

It’s comments like that they caused his presidential bid to implode before it even started.

[FredZarguna]

Hagel’s remarks were sparked by a student’s question during a dialog with eighth graders at St. Joseph Catholic School.

Chuck finally discovers an audience not too intellectually advanced or politically mature for him. The girls thought his asking for dates at lunchtime, "a bit creepy" though.

[MCCRon58]

Yes it was, but understand he is by no means close to being unique. The first thing I look for in a candidate is has he identified the issues. THEN I look to see if they have solutions for those self identified problems.

[AndyJackson]

A lesson of Vietnam that applies to Iraq is “the deeper you bog down in a morass, the more difficult it is to get out,” Sen. Chuck Hagel said Friday.

I am a retired Naval Officer and have strong respect for our military. I part ways with the FR knee-jerk support of Bush and his neo-cons on the conduct of the Iraq war, however, over a very very fundamental issue.

The issue is not pro/anti- conservative or pro/anti- war on terror, but rather what is our strategy? What would victory look like if we were to achieve it? How will we achieve that victory? What resources are required? Is the national sacrifice worth the goal defined in the strategy?

As has been abundantly clear, the neo-cons invated Iraq with no goal or strategy beyond "kill Sadam." That strategy takes one bullet or one noose. What then? Well we never looked beyond the noses of Feith and Wolfowitz and Bremer and Cheney and answered the "what then?" We are, however, dealing with the multi-trillion dollar aftermath of "what then."

Realistic military strategy begins with Sun Tsu.

The Art of War

By Sun Tzu

Translated by Lionel Giles

I. Laying Plans

1. Sun Tzu said: The art of war is of vital importance to the State.

2. It is a matter of life and death, a road either to safety or to ruin. Hence it is a subject of inquiry which can on no account be neglected.

3. The art of war, then, is governed by five constant factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations, when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

4. These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth; (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.

5,6. The Moral Law causes the people to be in complete accord with their ruler, so that they will follow him regardless of their lives, undismayed by any danger.

7. Heaven signifies night and day, cold and heat, times and seasons.

8. Earth comprises distances, great and small; danger and security; open ground and narrow passes; the chances of life and death.

9. The Commander stands for the virtues of wisdom, sincerely, benevolence, courage and strictness.

10. By method and discipline are to be understood the marshaling of the army in its proper subdivisions, the graduations of rank among the officers, the maintenance of roads by which supplies may reach the army, and the control of military expenditure.

11. These five heads should be familiar to every general: he who knows them will be victorious; he who knows them not will fail.

12. Therefore, in your deliberations, when seeking to determine the military conditions, let them be made the basis of a comparison, in this wise:--

13. (1) Which of the two sovereigns is imbued with the Moral law? (2) Which of the two generals has most ability? (3) With whom lie the advantages derived from Heaven and Earth? (4) On which side is discipline most rigorously enforced? (5) Which army is stronger? (6) On which side are officers and men more highly trained? (7) In which army is there the greater constancy both in reward and punishment?

14. By means of these seven considerations I can forecast victory or defeat.
....

II. Waging War

1. Sun Tzu said: In the operations of war, where there are in the field a thousand swift chariots, as many heavy chariots, and a hundred thousand mail-clad soldiers, with provisions enough to carry them a thousand li, the expenditure at home and at the front, including entertainment of guests, small items such as glue and paint, and sums spent on chariots and armor, will reach the total of a thousand ounces of silver per day. Such is the cost of raising an army of 100,000 men.

2. When you engage in actual fighting, if victory is long in coming, then men's weapons will grow dull and their ardor will be damped. If you lay siege to a town, you will exhaust your strength.

3. Again, if the campaign is protracted, the resources of the State will not be equal to the strain.

4. Now, when your weapons are dulled, your ardor damped, your strength exhausted and your treasure spent, other chieftains will spring up to take advantage of your extremity. Then no man, however wise, will be able to avert the consequences that must ensue.

5. Thus, though we have heard of stupid haste in war, cleverness has never been seen associated with long delays.

6. There is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare.

7. It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war that can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.

8. The skillful soldier does not raise a second levy, neither are his supply-wagons loaded more than twice.

9. Bring war material with you from home, but forage on the enemy. Thus the army will have food enough for its needs.

10. Poverty of the State exchequer causes an army to be maintained by contributions from a distance. Contributing to maintain an army at a distance causes the people to be impoverished.

[acapesket]

Go away Chuck. You bore me.

[Jewels1091]

"As a result of his year in Vietnam, Hagel said, “I see war not in abstractions. Not a day goes by that I don’t think about it."

that is his problem right there, he keeps thinking this is viet nam all over and it's not! I'm so glad he is not running again!

[jgilbert63]

Slouching towards irrelevancy.

[cowdog77]

Agreed

[stan_sipple]

Maybe when all his sucking-up to Obama gets him a post in his administration the mid-stream media will start to ignore him.

[stan_sipple]

What did General Douglas MacArthur mean when he quoted Napoleon: “give me allies as an enemy, so I may defeat them one by one?”

[spinestein]

[What would victory look like if we were to achieve it? How will we achieve that victory? What resources are required? Is the national sacrifice worth the goal defined in the strategy?]

Good questions. If we examine all the wars in which the United States has engaged and we compare the ones with successful outcomes to the ones with unsuccessful outcomes, we see that in the successful ones we fought as hard as we could until the enemy was completely defeated. We made sure they were utterly beaten and all the fight had gone out of them. Only then did we extend the hand of friendship and try to rebuild. In contrast, our unsuccessful ventures in war have all been fought with reservation and even timidity, as if afraid that beating an enemy in battle will make them angry and will ruin any possible victory. It certainly describes Vietnam, and it looks very similar to what is happening in Iraq.

[Doc Savage]

Gosh, at last my hero, Chuck Hagel, has given me my marching orders. I don’t even go to the bathroom to drop a “Hagel” unless I contact him first.

[PerConPat]

I don’t even go to the bathroom to drop a “Hagel” unless I contact him first.

LOL! Yes, that Chuck is something less than a deep thinker. Vietnam and the WOT, of which Iraq is a campaign, do not lend themselves to comparisons. Poor Hagel, he has somehow managed to not grasp the fact that the former was about containing the spread of a pernicious threat to the freedom of millions while the latter is about the more immediate concern of keeping mushroom clouds from forming over heavily populated areas of the US. To quote a great American character, and like Chuck- a Looney Tune, "What a maroon..."