Posted on 05/05/2008 3:59:52 PM PDT by Mount Athos
When Ms. Murguia of the National Council of "The Race" announces that "when free speech transforms into hate speech, we've got to draw that line " we don't know whether to laugh or cry, since her own organization's very nomenclature "The National Council of La Raza" is hate speech to the core.
No other ethnic organization these days would dare to refer to themselves as "The Race." Despite all the contortions of the group, Raza (as its Latin cognate suggests), reflects the meaning of "race" in Spanish, not "the people" — and that's precisely why we don't hear of something like "The National Council of the People" which would not confer the buzz notion of ethnic, racial, and tribal chauvinism.
What we are seeing is that a moderate corrective back to sanity on illegal immigration threatens these extremists and racialist groups to the point of causing hysteria. Apparently, they assumed that no one was ever going to question their racist language deeply embedded in 1960s 'resistance' culture.
In this regard, Ms. Murguia could do her part in curbing hate speech by starting with the many campus MEChA (Movimiento Estudiantil Chicano de Aztlan).affiliates, who have never repudiated all the nonsense of the "liberation of Aztlan," and on whose websites one can still find the old racist hatred: "Por La Raza todo. Fuera de La Raza nada," and new ones like "Anchor babies are destined to transform America — although during the California recall election and the implosion of the Cruz Bustamante candidacy, there was the welcome development of seeing that the old motto "A bronze state for a bronze people" suddenly began disappearing off MEChA university websites, no doubt due to the civil-rights humanitarianism of La Raza.
By November I don't know why either Sen. Clinton or Sen. Obama should not have been asked to repudiate the support of an organization self-described as "The National Council of The Race," or why public funds on campuses go to an organization like MEChA whose very title "Aztlan" refers to the notion of reclaiming parts of the southwestern United States under some Hispanic utopia, and whose affiliates at UC Berkeley and Pasadena City College were implicated in destroying campus newspapers deemed critical. I suggest Ms. Murguia also peruse The Voice of Aztlan, distributed on university campuses, in which disgusting anti-Semitic rants have been commonplace.
Ms. Murguia is absolutely right. We need to draw the line on real hate speech as it pertains to race and questions of ethnic identity — and she could make a useful beginning by modifying the name of her very own organization.
"Finally, as part of his commitment to talking with all Americans during this presidential campaign, the McCain presidential campaign announced that John McCain will attend the La Raza Annual Convention in San Diego on July 14, 2008."
http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/News/PressReleases/6dfbbff2-9e17-4dd1-b2a1-87e4287e69fb.htm
I think people are confusing NCLR (National Council of La Raza) with Mecha, La Raza Unido and other extreme organizations. I’ve been to the NCLR website and it looks pretty much like the NAACP and other race specific community help organizations.
I’m not defending the NCLR (La Raza is a general term used by many hispanic groups all over the spectrum) but I would like to know if anyone has specific information about this groups activities that would place them in the category of others that advocate the return of the Southwest US to Mexico, etc.
“His method of reaching out to hispanics is reaching out to an extreme racist reconquista org called “La Raza”. (The Race)”
Can you please support/verify this statement? Many hispanic groups use the term “La Raza” in one form or another, some good some bad, I want to make sure this group is the one you are referring to when you call it “an extreme racist reqonquista org”.
Bump, I’ve heard what you’ve mentioned before, unfortunately, the question was drowned out by knee jerking.
First, he is NOT talking to all Americans because he is not talking to me.
Second, I can not believe he is so stupid.
Hate speech?
“You old white people. It is your duty to die.”
HISPANIC LEADERS SPEAK OUT!
Augustin Cebada, Brown Berets; “Go back to Boston! Go back to Plymouth Rock, Pilgrims! Get out! We are the future. You are old and tired. Go on. We have beaten you. Leave like beaten rats. You old white people. It is your duty to die . . . Through love of having children, we are going to take over.
Richard Alatorre, Los Angeles City Council. “They’re afraid we’re going to take over the governmental institutions and other institutions. They’re right. We will take them over . . . We are here to stay.”
Excelsior, the national newspaper of Mexico, “The American southwest seems to be slowly returning to the jurisdiction of Mexico without firing a single shot.”
Professor Jose Angel Gutierrez, University of Texas; “We have an aging white America. They are not making babies. They are dying. The explosion is in our population . . . I love it. They are shitting in their pants with fear. I love it.”
Art Torres, Chairman of the California Democratic Party, “Remember 187 — proposition to deny taxpayer funds for services to non-citizens — was the last gasp of white America in California.”
Gloria Molina, Los Angeles County Supervisor, “We are politicizing every single one of these new citizens that are becoming citizens of this country ... I gotta tell you that a lot of people are saying, “I’m going to go out there and vote because I want to pay them back.”
Mario Obledo, California Coalition of Hispanic Organizations and California State Secretary of Health, Education and Welfare under Governor Jerry Brown, also awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Bill Clinton, “California is going to be a Hispanic state. Anyone who doesn’t like it should leave.”
Jose Pescador Osuna, Mexican Consul General , “We are practicing ‘La Reconquista’ in California.”
Professor Fernando Guerra, Loyola Marymount University; “We need to avoid a white backlash by using codes understood by Latinos ...”
Are these just the words of a few extremists? Consider that we could fill up many pages with such quotes. Also, consider that these are mainstream Mexican leaders.
http://ccir.net/AUDIO/TakeoverOfAmericaCD/Menu.html
How about the fact that they directly fund the groups people acknowledge are racist and reconquista?
“The National Council of La Raza and its allies in public office make no repudiation of the radical MEChA and its positions. In fact, as recently as 2003, La Raza was actively funding MEChA, according to federal tax records.
Imagine Robert Byrd’s refusing to disavow the views of the KKK, or if Strom Thurmond had failed to admit segregation was wrong. Imagine Heritage or Brookings Foundation making grants to the American Nazi Party.”
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=13863
"People" = "Gente", but they don't call themselves "The National Council of El Gente". Remember that when they claim that Raza means "The People".
“
How about the fact that they directly fund the groups people acknowledge are racist and reconquista?”
How about the fact that WE taxpayers fund LaRaza to the tune of $25 million a year?
If they promote and defend only one race, they are RACIST!
What part of that don’t you get? What is your vested interest, Bob J. Why are you always defending the indefensible if it’s about anything Mexican or those (SUTTON) who promote this invasion?
This is who McCain, Graham, Bush and a host of other republicans courts for votes.
HOW DARE HE!!!
MALKIN "Oops. Guess The National Council of La Raza didn't get the liberal talking-points manual: You're supposed to deny that reconquista exists. Supposed to label anyone who criticizes it as a delusional racist. "
The National Council of La Raza claims that reconquista is just a "code word" invented by "hate groups" who dreamed up the whole thing.
ALSO PERTINENT: Favio Ucedo, creative director of leading US Latino ad agency Grupo Gallegos about the Absolut vodka campaign, explained the reconquista-endorsing ad to The Los Angeles Times: "Mexicans talk about how the Americans stole their land, so this is their way of reclaiming it. It's very relevant and the Mexicans will love the idea."
And here's the words of Cuauhtli Minister of Information Nation of Aztlan La Voz de Aztlan: "Criminal racist elements (that's us) have already made death threats against certain “occupation administrators” and they will not stop at killing our civilians. We hope that the massacres of Mexicans that the White criminals have vowed to undertake are just the rantings of cowardly insane minds but we must take these threats seriously."
=====================================
Keep in mind, John McCain has appointed one of the "occupation adminstrators," Juan Hernandez, as his Hispanic outreach Director (Hernandez--a dual loyalty born-American---served in the Mexican Cabinet of Vicente Fox as Aztlan facilitator).
So that means a US politician is working hand in hand with "Aztlan occupation administrators" and will make sure the occupiers are armed and ready to kill us.........all with our own tax dollars.
“...but I would like to know if anyone has specific information about this groups activities that would place them in the category of others that advocate the return of the Southwest US to Mexico, etc.”
When I was in college in Southern California in 1969 there was a chicano group on campus that was forever talking about “la raza” and how they were going to take over California and Arizona (I don’t remember them saying anything about Texas, though). I remember them being almost uniformly clad in white T-shirts and blue jeans, and many had bandanas tied around their heads. I remember they had signs and flyers that had the term “la raza” prominently displayed, but I don’t know if they were, in fact, part of the National Council of La Raza. I remember them being punks.
Oh, we're all quite familiar with the NCLR on this site, thank you.
Although I daresay Team Juan doubtless hopes and prays otherwise.
“Yes, By All Means Let’s Discuss “hate speech”! (McCain announces he’ll speak before La Raza)”
Scum pandering to more scum.
I'm looking for specific evidence about the NCLR engaging in the kind os seditions AXTLAN activities as some have suggested here.
BTW - I'm not surprised they are for increasing hispanic immigration and a path to citizenship, but as I said, that covers about 90% of libs and the dem party so they are not much different.
I'm looking for significant evidence of the really nad stuff here like what is advocated by MECha, La Raza Unidos and other extreme organizations.
Agreed there are a lot of nuts out there pandering to the masses, but do you have anything specific about the NCLR?
La Raza doesn’t outright call for Reconquista but they provide air-cover for the real radicals and they seem never, ever, ever to criticism anybody with brown skin regardless of how heinous the act or statement.
Much like CAIR, La Raza doesn’t do the dirty work themselves but acts as an umbrella group to do all the PR for the race and excuse away any openly radical activists when they accidentally get into the MSM.
La Raza doesn’t mean ‘The Race’ to hispanics for the most part. Like most white people don’t ever think of themselves as ‘white’ or as part of any particular ethnicity (unless they are Irish or Italian or something more specific). But the term ‘La Raza’ does mean The Race and it’s translation is entirely dependent upon who in the political debate gets to define it first. Liberal used to be a non-offensive word but we were victorious and now its a perjorative.
NCLR and LULAC are basically hispanic socialist groups who just seek to promote people with spanish surnames up through the bureaucracy into places of power. They aren’t interested in equality or colorblindness any more than the NAACP is. They are racist groups by definition that they only seek to promote one race against all others.
Well, that’s the kind of stuff I’m talking about but I couldn’t find ONE SINGLE REFERENCE to MECHA on their website. Your cite says they were funding in 2003, how about since then? Did they remove those on line endorsements and funding since then or are they finding them in secret now?
“How about the fact that WE taxpayers fund LaRaza to the tune of $25 million a year?”
There are about 1000 organizations that get my tax dollars that make me wretch. How are they different? Are they advocating seditious policies or funding terrorism?
Otherwise we are all tempted to think of them as just another bunch of ingrateful racists trying to bust their way into our country as if they have a right to do so.
Come to think of it, use of the term "la raza" should be brounds for instant deportation.
There are several problems here, with complex ramifications -
The Mexican civil rights organizations have pretty much been backed into a corner as a result of their own history and their bad luck in that they developed out of 1960’s ethno-socialist idiocy, because all the college kids that founded them came out of that. Therefore even the mildest community organization has solid ties to “Atzlan” this or that. They are forever tarred with that brush, and even those that realize it can’t back out - “For the ashes of his fathers, And the temples of his gods”, etc. A lot of these organizations, at least those run by adults, even if unwilling to deny their roots, would like to just forget about it.
This is a problem for us, because this leaves an intellectual barrier to integration - at least a barrier to integration of intellectuals, regular people for the most part pay little attention to crap that college kids get - even if they desperately want to integrate. And lots of them do; a lot of those people don’t even speak Spanish. We are not talking about organizations of illegal immigrants, the vast majority of college educated Mexicans are legal.
So what to do ? Several options -
a. Permit the adults to just sweep all the dirt under the rug, “don’t ask, don’t tell” seems best. McCain going to speak with them is a good thing in this view. The downside is that disloyal ideas will get forgiven, and it leaves some substructure for justification of disloyalty in some later crisis. The odds are though that these people are already so integrated into the US that they can’t switch sides to any realistic irredentist movement. Mexico, for these people these days, is just too foreign, and too miserable.
On our side it is a Christian virtue to forgive.
b. Force the issue and make them recant. This preserves the roots of civic virtue, but the cost could be very high. Conflict will raise the tribal barriers and serve as a real obstacle to integration, and, probably, create long term grudges.
“If they promote and defend only one race, they are RACIST!”
As do these organizations;
African American political organizations
Congressional Black Caucus
California Legislative Black Caucus
Black Leadership Forum
Georgia Legislative Black Caucus
Louisiana Legislative Black Caucus
Oklahoma Legislative Black Caucus
South Carolina Legislative Black Caucus
Latino American political organizations
Congressional Hispanic Caucus
Congressional Hispanic Caucus Institute
League of United Latin American Citizens
National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials
Mexican American Political Association
California Latino Legislative Caucus
Southwest Voter Registration Education Project (SVREP)
Asian American political organizations
Chinese American Political Association
Chinese American Democratic Club
Congressional Asian Pacific American Caucus
80-20 Initiative
Asian Pacific Americans for Progress
Why does the NCLR earn any more disrespect than them?
That was MECHA.
Yep. There were a lot of punks in those days.
The vast majority were also a bunch of posers. They had about as much genuine connection to Mexico as my Spanish grandmother.
No one is going to stop us. Just a matter of the government giving a damned.
No one is going to stop us. Just a matter of the government giving a damned.
Well, you did such a super job with the governmental and other institutions in Mexico, I'm sure you'll work the same magic here.
“Hispanic groups should learn to respect our customs and standards ~ the elimination of the term “la raza” should be first on their list.”
I don’t entirely disagree but my long time understanding of the term “raza” means “the people” to hispanics.
But it can be offensive to other groups who translate it as specifically meaning hispanics.
BTW - Have you been as outraged over the years by the term NAACP?
NCLR is tied to some extremely unfortunate rhetoric, unlike most of these others. The Asian ones for instance certainly don’t have that weird violent-revolution fascist vibe, and neither do most of the black ones.
If I thought for one second you were in earnest, and not trying to stink up the thread just because you can...
..then I would understand those who thoughtfully try to answer you.
But I'm on to you....You keep doing this, thread after thread....
You like to provoke.
Nice analysis.
Why can’t we have more of this kind of rational thinking on FR instead of the constant knee jerk, let’s grab the torches and march stuff?
Agreed. How do we get that reversed?
You should ping Dane on this one. I won't.
FMCDH(BITS)
No, “la raza” is a specifically Mexican term, and one with very fascist roots besides. You won’t find this a common term in Spain or other Spanish-speaking countries, even in Latin America.
It came out of very particular Mexican cultural anxieties.
All the killers were from one country; all the victims were white Americans.
I think "la raza" is understood by your "typical" hispanic pretty much the same way the KKK understood it.
Time to "give it up" ~ look at it this way, "carne" means meat in Spanish in Spanish speaking countries. In the United States you find even "how to cook like a Mexican" shows on cable TV using the new word "la meata".
Spanish must accommodate America; not the other way around, and if it can't, its users probably ought to get in "la car" and drive "down home" eh?!
Time to drop the "la raza" business or go where that term is acceptable.
You can’t ship them back. There are many millions of people of Mexican ancestry in the US, completely legal. I’m married to one of them.
Its perhaps some sort of stress relief to say so, but its not realistic or moral.
You'll enjoy it there.
We are definitely oversubscribed on that particular country and must work hard to make room for others ~ removing all the visa overstays would make a big dent and we could bring in the doctors, nurses and scientists we need.
I call ‘em as I see ‘em Guenevere.
Unfortunately over the years many of the rational, thinking voices of FR have been silenced only to be replaced by a shreiking, torch and pitchfork mob whose only intent seems to be to destroy all around them so they can then just sit and groove on the rubble.
I do notice when I come on these threads with an alternative viewpoint, each time one or two others whom I haven’t seen in the past chime in and with a little sanity of their own.
If my only purpsoe left on FR is to once in while stoke the embers of rationality and balance, that is fine with me because maybe one day FR can get back to what it once was.
Er, you can’t “ship them back” even then, and you are also stuck with a few dozen million more poor Mexicans in those northern states.
And I’m an immigrant from across the Pacific Ocean, I have no reason to go to Mexico. And my wife doesn’t speak Spanish.
“Well bless your heart, Bob, you just love to stir it with a stick, doncha. If I thought for one second you were in earnest, and not trying to stink up the thread just because you can...”
You see all, now on FR when you don’t fall in line with the groupthink you’re “stirring the stick” and “stinking up the thread”
Used to be a time when being the voice of a reasoned opposition won you kudos. Now you’re run out of town like a flea bitten dog.
But that’s what happens when you let the mob take over.
There is no “reversing” the only solution is to become “racist” ourselves.
Do all ethnic groups have the same level of ethnocentrism? Clearly not, as most groups differ significantly on those traits that are selective in differing environments. And research has now shown that Northern Europeans score significantly lower on ethnocentrism than do most other population groups, and yet we are the very group that is accused of racism![2] How can this be? Well, it occurs for the very simple reason that individualist cultures, who are low in ethnocentrism and high on universal altruism (versus tribal altruism), are the very groups that can be easily intimidated and attacked by others. That is, it is the very nature of other highly ethnocentric groups to use labels like “racism” against Europeans because our nature is not to react adversely, but to try harder to help those in need. It is an advantageous strategy for the more highly ethnocentric groups in the United States to gain advantages against the majority; whether it is blacks, Asian Indians, Hispanics o r Ashkenazi Jews — these highly ethnocentric groups can extract enormous political and monetary benefits from the majority. But can this continue?
Now, back to the use of an offensive term "la raza" by self-styled hispanics ~ time to start assimilating or packing ~ there are really no choices here, and whatever people in Mexico think their words mean, that's between them and the Academy in Madrid. Those words mean something different once taken into an English-speaking world, and they have been deemed quite offensive ~ to the point that the use of "la raza" justifies the pitchfork approach to many people.
“Hispanics have murdered three people in my neighborhood with aluminum baseball bats. All the killers were from one country; all the victims were white Americans.”
I guess in your book that makes all hispanics racist murderers...even the law abiding citizens whose families have been here for centuries.
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