Posted on 05/05/2008 5:23:58 PM PDT by panthermom
My 17 year old son has announced that he wants to join the Army right out of high school and become a Ranger. Today a friend of his took him to the National Guard to talk to a recruiter who told him it would be no problem becoming a Ranger through the Guard. Based on the conversation he relayed to me, the recruiter also made it sound like an MP is a great MOS. I have a brother in Iraq right now with Black Water, he is too emotionally involved to get a straight answer out of. Everyone has an opinion on what he should do. I want to be supportive but I want unbiased information. He wants me to go with him this week to the Army recruiter to find out what how he can become a Ranger. What do I say or look for in regard to that?
We need good people in our military and your son is to be commended. However, I would wait until after the election to make a decision.
Whatever your son decides, God bless him for wanting to serve his country.
If you want one of the finest men you’ve ever met as your son, go with him to the recruiters office!
He will soon be a man!
They will take that man, and make a REAL MAN, that you will swell with pride at his graduation from boot camp!
By all means.....talk to the recruiter...actually both the Army and reserve and Guard recruiters....they are not all the same person.
It can be done, but he should be a self-starter and able to follow up on things. My son-in-law is in the Guard, as a full-timer, so your son will have to decide just what he wants to do.
Remember, the Guard is under the state and the governor, the Army is Federal.....there are differences.
Good luck....and be proud of your son for making a mature decision.
The recruiter told him with my permission he can sign up early and go to bootcamp summer of 2009. He told the SFC that there is no way I would do that until I knew if the Dems would be in the WH. He told me they all just stared at him and said that I was misinformed because the President has nothing to do with declaring war, only the congress could do that so it really doesn’t matter who the President is.
Still seeing red over that.
Oh boy. My son went down this road and I am telling you to tread lightly.
All recruiters lie. I served, my son has, and I love America and I will still tell you that all recruiters lie.
National Guard is not a good way to become a Ranger. I am a Ranger so I know.
You must enlist in the Regular Army on active duty. Not Guard or Reserves.
There are only a few slots open each year. These fill up quick. New allotments start when the fiscal year starts and if I remember right, this would be November 1. It might be October 1 so check.
These slots are filled quickly. After they are filled, recruiters start promising Ranger training. These are not the same thing. In my son’s case, when he reported to Ranger training he learned that there were 4 recruits for every Ranger assignment available. The instructors simply wash out 3 out of 4 and these three are then assigned anywhere the Army wants.
If he wants to be a Ranger, he needs to go in the Regular Army, unless the Guard has changed a whole lot.
Solid advice!!
Recruiters LIE!!!!
The recruiter has quotas to fill and MP’s are the least likely MOS to be volunteered for.
I suggest selecting a mechanical or electrical MOS, to enhance the opportunities of a marketable skill.
Then during basic training, if you perform well enough, your drill instructor will be in a position to recognize your potential, and recommend you for a “pre-ranger” screening.
If you take this clown recruiter’s advice, and you’re not recommended during basic training, you’ll end up waiving people through the front gate somewhere.
My info is dated, and based upon my experience, so keep reading other’s recommendations.
This announcement was like getting hit by a Mack Truck. He always seemed to me to be the President of the Fraternity. My middle son, it would not have surprised me.
I know you can get jump school in your enlistment contract, but can you get Ranger school in your contract? The bottom line is, if it’s not in your contract, don’t count on getting it.
By all means visit the recruiter. Get him to talk about the training pipeline and how your son (who is naturally focused on the goal, not necessarily how he'll get there) needs to proceed, step by step, with an idea to timeline and prerequisites. Have him talk to your son about what he can do between now and then to prepare (hint - running and working out like a fiend might be in order).
I'm BTT'ing this for any FReeper Rangers who might want to comment. I know they're out there!
G Larry, well said. From USAF guy.
Sarge and Tex, ping.
Hey panthermom, has your son considered going in as an officer? He could go ROTC somewhere, and that 4 years of school would be long enough to see who the president in ‘12 will be, should the unthinkable happen and one of the commies (instead of the Republican socialist) wins this year.
Right, bring your parents to the military recruiter's office because you want to become a real man.
C'mon!
Yeah, infantry is what the Army wants, all too often.
My son had a diffeerent experience when he asked about becoming a ranger. The recruiter said there was a low probability he would be accpted to become a ranger until he had completed about two years in the Army. He opted for the Marine infantry. He is out of the Corps now and complains about the experience. However, let one of these university whimps say anything against the Corps, and the jerk probably won’t walk right for a while. The bureaucracy can drive a person nuts. The greatest complaint from him though is the amount of poor supervision he encountered instead of good leadership. It can be a hard life anywhere a person is stationed. He succeeded in all his assignments, never let the losers grind him down, and proceeds with an incomparable understanding of human relations.
Whatever your son’s decision just support him in anyway you can. My daughter joined the Army a few years ago at 20.. not my first service choice as a Dad (US Navy Vet) for a daughter to go into the service.. The wife & I were hoping Coast Guard just to stay semi-close or the Air Force. It wasn’t our decision, it was hers and our daughter has done just fine and we couldn’t be more proud.
Best of luck to whatever you son decides and to you for supporting him!
YES THEY DO!
On the other hand...The US ARMY will NOT make a Bad person out of your son! Just the opposite!
They learn discipline, something that everyone needs to learn in order to achieve success.
You know what I meant!
I’ve heard many recruiter’s lies retold, but the one I was there to observe was priceless.
We’re in line getting our heads shaved and the new recruit informs the barber, “My recruiter said I could keep my sideburns.”
The barber took the recruits hands and placed them palm up, under each ear, as he dropped the recruit’s sideburns into his open palms.
He needs go through basic training and do very well to show he has what it takes to be a Ranger.
I failed to perform well enough to be anything better than a PFC in the infantry where I really didn’t belong.
LOL.
American Ranger, I have to laugh. You are so right, and thank you for your and your son’s service.
I was reading your post to my husband and he laughed too and said, “That’s right, all recruiters lie”. My husband served in the Army in Vietnam and later in the National Guard in Illinois and Oregon.
My mother served in the Navy during WWII, my father served in the Army in WWII, when my sister and brother were joining the Air Force in the early 70’s my mother told them, “All recruiters lie”.
We love America and our troops too, but what you say it true.
Panthermom, go with your son and tell them you’ve heard from us and you want the truth!
God Bless your son.
That is exactly what my brother said, he also said tread lightly with the Ranger MOS. He doesn’t turn 18 until Dec. He has to be physically challenged. He’s playing football, basketball, baseball, golf, he’s even taken up tennis and he’ll give you a run for your money at all of them. And he is not timid.
He could go to college but he said he’s done with school, he wants to do something with his life. He’s smart and sometimes even common sense shines through (LOL). He’s just not academically inclined right now.
I just helped a smart young guy go into the Marines. He wanted infantry, but I thought it would be kind of boring for him. He had worked on electronics for a bit, and he ended up signing up for repair/maintains of gun optics and electronics. I said he'd be were they are being used and abused and that was close enough. Further I pointed out he'd be near a nice shower every now and then and not cleaning for a couple of weeks gets old. If he gets trough his school he's getting like a $50K bonus, and he'll be able to work near on anything which has optics, cards, sensors, which is just about everything in modern manufacturing today. He'll be offered near a $100k/year when he gets out. So, he's fulfilling a personal want, being patriotic, learning and applying real world skills and being in a non-lefty, non-sorry ass environment.
Find out if your son has any technical interest. The Army is huge, and needs good people. It's a team effort and the one trigger puller is backed up by 9 American Army technicians and is happy for it. Believe me, all grunts love the guys that make their life easier, safer and worse for the enemy.
Also, recruiters lie, make mistakes, tell you what they think you want to hear and/or don't know themselves. Get the career/MOS books and look through them. It could be the paid start of a good, life long military and civilian careers. Also, good luck and thank your son.
I feel proud and honored that your son has a desire to serve his country.
The only advice I can give you is this that I know from many family experiences:
a feller can join the army intending to “do” something specific (ranger, etc.).
BUT, the fact is, that once a feller joins the army,
it is the army that decides what they will do with him.
Recruiters make LOTS of promises...
LOL
Indeed yes, but arrogance is my forte`.
Yep—all recruiters lie. My recruiter (Navy) told me that “of course there won’t be homework in Nuclear Power School—it’s all classified”. Of course what he DIDN’T say was that there was mandatory study time IN THE CLASSROOM that amounted to 35+ additional hours a week!!
My son’s technical aptitude stops at working an Ipod or cellphone. Ask him to do anything that involves a physical challenge and he’s all over it. He runs and works out because he actually likes it, didn’t get that from me btw.
Actually going to war has been said to be easier than Ranger school.
Ranger school’s been described as “two months without eating or sleeping”.
Can your son go two months without eating or sleeping (or darned close to it)?
Go to this site:
http://grunt.space.swri.edu/beh-wall.htm
and read about “John R. Jones”.
If he’s still up for it, good for him; I wish him the best of luck.
I was in the 82nd and SF. It actually was kind of hard to stay in shape. Laying on cold ground, bad diet, shin splints, dirt, back and leg injuries. The real health nuts, worked out after work, because the PT was to top physical fitness what Army food was to haunt cuisine. The Army has way more other things it wants out of you than prepping for a triathlon.
As retired USAF, the only regret I had was not going into a field that I could use in the civilian world. Last I checked, the civilian airline industry does not use rocket powered escape systems! lol
On the flip side, had I not been in the field that I was, I would've missed a bunch of times that I now cherish. Saw a whole bunch of this world, met a bunch of people that are still friends to this day, etc. Just great.
Unfortunately, the best military experience I had was after I retired, very blessed to work with the finest that this country has to offer. Rubbed elbows with Army Officers (flight rated and not), Rangers, GB's / Navy Seals / Marine pilots, etc.
Really opened my eyes, coming from a very narrow slice of the big picture - USAF. Having no previous experience with the 'other forces', I was flat out amazed at the quality and dedication these folks brought to the table.
I got to know an Army Ranger, (WO-4, 28 yrs service), quite well on a fishing trip I mean TDY, to Alaska. The more he opened up, the more in awe I was.
Him, the Seals.......little 'ol USAF me was talking to the real, "Pointy end of the spear." To say I was impressed doesn't get it. Just WOW!
Please tell your Son for me, "Thank you and get ready for the experience of your life, no matter what branch of service!"
He could elect to apply for active duty at that point and volunteer for assignment to the Ranger Regiment. There is no guarantee that his National Guard commander would be willing to release him for active duty, however.
Also, by volunteering for Ranger duty with the Ranger Regiment, he volunteers for airborne training. Once his basic, AIT and airborne training are complete, he would be assigned to one of three Ranger battalions (1st Ranger at Hunter AAF, Savannah, Ga; 2nd Ranger at Fort Lewis, WA, or 3rd Ranger at Fort Benning, GA). He would then most likely serve in a rifle squad, (if enlisting for 11B) then at some point be assessed for Ranger training beginning with the battalion's Ranger Orientation Program (ROP) which prepares new Rangers in each battalion to attend and successfully complete the U.S. Army Ranger Course.
Here's some links:
Hope this helps.
RLTW
My son, who is now in his third year of medical school feels that his three years in the Navy were the best thing that happened to him. This was an election on his part with no pressure from his parents, in fact we offered him the chance to back out the day he finally went in(only to keep the pressure off from recruiters).
It is my belief that most kids are too immature to go to college let alone to appreciate it.The service wakes them up and attunes there appreciation for knowledge.
I wish the best for your son.
Got to know someone. My best friend joined at 29, and cut a deal to go Ranger. Rather they game him the shot at RIP, and if he washed out, he would be regular army. He made it. But the b/s that they tried first was amazing. We have a mutual friend (ex-ranger) who made some calls and put pressure on the recruiter. They would promise anything ,but not in writing. If you are ex-ranger, Call down to Benning, and ask for help in this matter. Get it in Writing!!! I am not aware of going Guard to make Ranger.
I’ll second the ROTC nod if your son was previously college bound. You say he is not technically bright but you thought of him as fraternity president - meaning he is a natural leader among his peers? Some of the best Cadets (and future officers) I knew in ROTC struggled with their academics but they worked hard enough to learn what they needed and make the grade. Regardless of the Bio-Chemistry grade I would have followed them up over the hedgerow. If he is at all interested in ROTC do not have him ask the recruiter (see the 20 previous posts -RECRUITERS LIE) have him call the Professor of Military Science at the colleges he might attend. they will give him good info.
My Father served. I wanted too, but I tore up my knees playing ball.
At any rate, Ranger School has a 75% washout rate. Due to two major factors, brains and brawn. Rangers, Special Forces are sharp and they are physically far above average.
Google the basic training and Ranger requirements, and see if your son ALREADY can exceed them.
Can he already get a 100% on the Physical?
Did he max out on the ASVAB test?
He should go Regular Army, even if he does the delayed entry or split options programs. The Guard will not offer a high potential for Rangers, although it isn’t forbidden.
It is a points system. Physical points, mental points and then earned points, based on his unit, recommendations, MOS etc.
What MOS is probably his third most important choice. And the ASVAB will determine those for which he can qualify.
Lastly, does he speak a 2nd language? Particularly an Arabic dialect?
Is he sharp enough to LEARN ONE with like a PC program “Rosetta Stone” or something?
Those skills will get him Rangers and keep him in an MOS with the lowest chance of.... well, having something bad happen over there.
Best to ya and him !
My son, age 22, started basic training in January after enlisting in the Army Reserves. He graduated the end of March and I was amazed at the change. My son is not stupid, his ASVAB scores were sky high, but he was lazy and lacked motivation and self confidence. During my career I saw many young men and women who could not cut it in uniform and, to tell the truth, I thought my son could be one of them. Before basic he was a boy, after basic he is a man. Now he is going to AIT at Fort Huachuca into a military intel MOS and he sounds more and more confident everytime I speak with him. I am so proud of him sometimes I can’t button my shirt. I know that regardless of how long he stays in uniform, one enlistment or a career, his experience has made him a better man. I only wish his grandfather, a retired US Army Major, could see him.
Recon.
Go USMC. Best trained. Best able. Best possible service.
Suggest the USMC, sir.
One man’s ranger school is just another USMC boot camp.
Boots
The guard doesn’t have Rangers. That would difficult for them to keep that request.
Fair warning - and I’ll try to be judicious in my wording - don’t expect candor from the recruiter. They have a job to do, and it is basically a sales job.
If the boy wants to be a Ranger, he’s going to have to earn it. The recruiter isn’t going to be able to honestly guarantee it.
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