Students claim police chief who shot himself was careless

Ap via Yahoo ^ | Tue May 6, 2008

[Abathar]

RIVERDALE, Utah - The police chief who shot himself in the ankle was waving a loaded pistol and being careless, according to two students who were attending his class to qualify for a concealed-weapons permit. "We were told the gun is the chief's personal sidearm, but it looked to me like he didn't know anything about the gun," Lewis Walker said.

Bart Ulm, another student seeking certification to carry a concealed weapon, said he was surprised Chief Dave Hansen was using a loaded gun to show how it worked.

"Right then, I was very leery, because there's no need to have live ammo in a gun in the class. But I figured he's the chief, so he must know what he's doing," Ulm told the Standard-Examiner of Ogden.

Hansen held the Glock 40 under a table to disassemble it when a bullet fired, Walker said.

The chief cried, "I'm hit," and fell over. Students who were screaming "Officer down!" were urged to call 911.

The gun went off in a conference room Saturday at Riverdale police headquarters.

Hansen was taken to McKay-Dee Hospital in Ogden for surgery and released Monday, Lt. James Ebert said.

Ebert said the findings of an internal investigation would be announced Wednesday. He declined to offer specifics but disputed the accounts of Ulm and Walker, describing the pair as "disgruntled."

Other students "did not share that feeling" about the chief, Ebert told The Associated Press.

Walker said he didn't have confidence in the investigation.

"I think Riverdale police are just trying to keep this quiet and act like the chief is a hero. But if you ask me, he's really stupid," Walker said. "His state certification to teach concealed-weapons classes should be taken away from him. This was totally gross negligence."

Ulm said there was a moment of levity during the emergency.

He said an officer at the scene joked that "instead of shooting himself, he should have used the Taser."

[Abathar]

""Right then, I was very leery, because there's no need to have live ammo in a gun in the class. But I figured he's the chief, so he must know what he's doing,""

*snicker*

[Hacklehead]

“The chief cried, “I’m hit,” and fell over. Students who were screaming “Officer down!” were urged to call 911.”

I also would have fallen over, laughing hysterically.

[P8riot]

"I think Riverdale police are just trying to keep this quiet and act like the chief is a hero. But if you ask me, he's really stupid," Walker said. "His state certification to teach concealed-weapons classes should be taken away from him. This was totally gross negligence."

Damn straight!

[craig61a]

I agree with the sentiment that he should have his license to teach concealed carry yanked. “Now class, the first step in disassembling a loaded Glock 40...” MAKE SURE IT’S NOT LOADED!!!

Making sure a firearm is unloaded prior to doing any kind of work on it is right up there with making sure you point the firearm in a safe direction at all times...

This buffoon is certainly not qualified...

[Larry Lucido]

Just.....damn!

[Vaquero]

[Steamburg]

Administrators who wanna be macho cops, who’d a thought? Why do you think they promote these incompetents; because it makes the streets safer.

[Celtic Conservative]

"Right then, I was very leery, because there's no need to have live ammo in a gun in the class. But I figured he's the chief, so he must know what he's doing,"

I can say with some certainty that He didn't have a clue what he was doing. Im a firearms instructor for my department, as well as a certified armorer on the Glock pistol in question. To disassemble this firearm, the magazine must be removed(always a good start) and then using a two party check the chamber must be verified clear AND empty. Once the weapon is VERIFIED empty, the trigger can be pulled(keeping it pointed in a safe direction i.e. not at YOURSELF) and the pistol disassembled. As My master trainers are fond of saying "you gotta be smarter than the gun you're carrying"

CC

[rgboomers]

I still remember my first weapons trainning class for the US ARMY. The SGT made up a non existant exotic sounding weapon and asked us what was the first step in its disassembly. None of us knew the answer. So, the SGT told us it was to check if the weapon was loaded and unload the weapon if it was. When someone said he did not think there was such a weapon as mentioned, the SGT said that did not matter. All weapons have the same first step in their disassembly.

[MortMan]

Did you mean a two-PART check or a two-PARTY? I ask because I would assume that it is OK to dissassemble and reassemble the pistol while by oneself...

[gridlock]

Making sure a firearm is unloaded prior to doing any kind of work on it is right up there with making sure you point the firearm in a safe direction at all times...

Before you crawl under the car to change the oil, be sure it is not cruising down the highway at 65 MPH...

[Fundamentally Fair]

"Right then, I was very leery, because there's no need to have live ammo in a gun in the class. But I figured he's the chief, so he must know what he's doing," Ulm told the Standard-Examiner of Ogden.

No CCW permit for you then, Bart.

Ebert said the findings of an internal investigation would be announced Wednesday. He declined to offer specifics but disputed the accounts of Ulm and Walker, describing the pair as "disgruntled."

Yeah, this is the students' fault. </cop logic>

[Eaker]

Wow!

The two CHL classes that I have had to take were run by professionals.

I wouldn’t let this doofus house-train our new puppy!

[Sloth]

He declined to offer specifics but disputed the accounts of Ulm and Walker, describing the pair as "disgruntled."

If I'd been in a class where a cop was waving a loaded gun around and caused a negligent discharge, I wouldn't be very gruntled, either.

[Joe 6-pack]

"Did you mean a two-PART check or a two-PARTY? I ask because I would assume that it is OK to dissassemble and reassemble the pistol while by oneself..."

If you're by yourself, check it twice, using an alias the second time.

[wideawake]

"I'm hit!"

Did he think he was in an action movie or something?

He's lucky he didn't kill one of his students with a ricochet.

Clown.

[Arrowhead1952]

NO!!!!

[Celtic Conservative]

In my department weapons are issued as needed, so a two person check would be a better way of saying it. He could’ve used a student to visually verify if the weapon was empty. The idea is that one person might get it wrong , but two are less likely to.

[jaydubya2]

“The chief cried, “I’m hit,” and fell over. Students who were screaming “Officer down!”

I found that funny too. From the story, it sounds like he knew the gun was loaded prior to him shooting himself. What an idiot!

[6SJ7]

This story needs more powdered donut.

[Global2010]

My question is what about Walker and Ulm who where described as disgruntled due to their comments.

Are they going to be turned away for their license for conceal to carry or however you say it?

[Sender]

The chief cried, "I'm hit," and fell over. Students who were screaming "Officer down!" were urged to call 911.

Did they get a description of the shooter in all the chaos?

[PapaBear3625]

Did you mean a two-PART check or a two-PARTY? I ask because I would assume that it is OK to dissassemble and reassemble the pistol while by oneself...

The two party check is for when you are with others

In classes I've gone to, and whenever I teach, we use the two-party check, where the owner of the gun verifies that it is unloaded, and a second party double-checks (by sight and by sticking his finger in the empty chamber) that it is unloaded.

The reason for it is, you need to be double-sure when an error might endanger others.

The reason for checking by sight AND feel is that occasionally people think they see what ought to be there rather than what IS there

[doodad]

The chief cried, "I'm hit," and fell over. Students who were screaming "Officer down!" were urged to call 911. The gun went off in a conference room Saturday at Riverdale police headquarters.

What out the door? 911!!!!!!

[PapaBear3625]

but disputed the accounts of Ulm and Walker, describing the pair as "disgruntled."

I would be more than "disgruntled" if I found out that some dipweed had been carelessly waving a loaded gun in my direction during a class

[pabianice]

Sounds like too many chiefs here in MA. Largely political hacks with little or no familiarity with firearms.

[Celtic Conservative]

They shouldn't be, as it is obvious that they have a better grip on weapon safety than the chief did. Is their state "shall issue" or do the local chiefs have power over the weapons permit process? I think it's possible that these 2 are "disgruntled" because the police department tried to lean on them to keep them quiet about the incident.

JMHO

[Joe Brower]

From his comments, student Lewis Walker appears to know considerably more about firearms than Police Chief Dave Hansen.

[bt_dooftlook]

Hansen held the Glock 40 under a table to disassemble it when a bullet fired, Walker said

Note the passive voice.

"Hansen held the Glock 40 under a table to disassemble it when he pulled the trigger and shot himself", Walker said

There, fixed it...

[ko_kyi]

“But I figured he’s the chief, so he must know what he’s doing,”

There is a reason that one of the logical fallacies is “Appeal to Authority.” The folks in the class learned a valuable lesson, both about firearms and life in general.

[Celtic Conservative]

Well said. Thanks for the backup. (pun intended)

CC

[Travis McGee]

Another rogue Glock gone bad!
Ban them!

[Ghengis]

Reminds me of an Academy Commander in the central Ohio area back in the 1980s. He waved a loaded weapon around in several classes in an unsafe manner. Some students filed complaints. This resulted in his academy being placed on probation and he and his instructors threatening the students with failing the academy.

Soon after, this commander had a negligent discharge within inches of a student's head. He lost his academy.

Last I heard, he was training Iraqi police forces in 2003. Shudder!

[Califreak]

I could argue for gun control on an as needed basis in this case....but I won’t.

Just the standard sarcastic statement that only professionals should be trusted with guns.

Another reason not to rely on the “professionals” for your own protection.

[NonValueAdded]

Indeed. As your post points out, pulling the trigger is part of the disassembly process. The fact that the doofus in question performed this under the table is a strong indicator that no check was performed, that he assumed the unloaded status of the weapon.

[wildbill]

somewhere on the internet there is a video of a drug officer talking to the elementary school kids about the dangers of guns.

He takes out his gun and promptly shoots himself in the foot. Gotta give him credit for being a show biz trooper, however. He says something like, “see there how dangerous this is” while he’s hopping around on one foot.

lmao.

[A Strict Constructionist]

“As My master trainers are fond of saying “you gotta be smarter than the gun you’re carrying””

And...never drive faster than your IQ.

[Gilbo_3]

“Appeal to Authority.”

Yeah, they are required to appease this dickweed for the priveledge of exercising their God given Right...

for the unneccesary ccw, a simple form with the question...'Have you ever shot anyone while dis-assembling a firearm?'...

No...= 'grant' the permit

yes...= ...please send resume to "chief of police", PO box...

LFOD...

[facedown]

Hansen held the Glock 40...

No such thing. A glock .40 SW caliber perhaps?

[Drawsing]

Is it a requirement to yell, "Officer Down!"? Why can't you just say, "Some guy just shot himself in the ankle!"

I'm a graphic designer. From now on when I get shot, I want everybody to yell, "Graphic Designer down!"

[Abathar]

I remember that video well, I had to laugh when the guy was trying to use it as a lesson to the kids on how dangerous guns were.

He was an idiot, that is for sure.

[Abathar]

LOL

Okay, if I am in the vicinity and you shoot yourself between the laughs I will yell that!...

[spunkets]

"Did they get a description of the shooter in all the chaos?"

It was the guy.

[Hat-Trick]

The two party check is for when you are with others

Exactly what was practiced when my 13 year-old and I went through Hunter Safety a couple of weeks ago.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Sounds like 95% of the police chiefs in the whole country.

[caver]

“Students who were screaming “Officer down!” were urged to call 911.”

Now that is funny! Especially since he shot himself.

[Abathar]

They called 911 while in the police station, I had to laugh at that.

I can just imagine the local Sheriffs Department getting that 911 call, all the deputies just looking at each other hoping they aren’t the first to crack a smile...

[caver]

“They called 911 while in the police station, I had to laugh at that.”

Yea, they didn’t even get to turn on their sirens and lights and drive like maniacs either.

[ßuddaßudd]

Same here. Pretty darn funny stuff.

[Sender]

I find it interesting that he thought it was important to show off to CCW holders that he could disassemble the Glock "under the table".

This is not a skill that careful people practice. Not knowing to unload the pistol is inexcusable. That's the first thing of all!