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Vanity: Strategy should Obama/Clintoon win in Nov.
bushfamfan | 5/7/08 | bushfamfan

Posted on 05/07/2008 8:47:37 AM PDT by bushfamfan

Considering this election has left us with less than desirable 'choices' for President and the GOP has gone more and more to the left, there is a strong possibility that come November we will be stuck with a Clintoon or Obama presidency. Now I ask what happens when they are in office and what conservatives should do in response to them and if it is really healthy to prevent them from being exposed as the danger they are to this country?


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: 2008; clintoon; obama; president
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I think we need to sacrifice. The Demonrats continue to live off this myth of how they are for the poor and have all the answers. Bill got away with it when the GOP took control of governorships and the Congress in that he was incredibly unpopular prior to the Republicans taking control and preventing him from his destructive policies. I think it's time they be exposed for what they are and the GOP, conservatives need to tell the people that if they elect either of them they are going to get all that comes with it. Simply the strategy of passing their liberal policies and making America realize the consequences. Conservatives will get nowhere in allowing liberals to continue this charade they've got going on with the ignorant public. The only obstacle I could see opposition having to Clintoon or Obama would be regarding judges, but I think the policy should be to pass the policies and finally put an end to the liberal lies and manipulations and shine the light on them.
1 posted on 05/07/2008 8:47:37 AM PDT by bushfamfan
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To: bushfamfan

Grow up...you would sacrifice this country, your freedom, your grandchildren’s freedom to punish the Republicans? Anyone who says McCain is JUST as bad as Obama has let their anger overtake their common sense. We are a different country than we were even 15 years ago.


2 posted on 05/07/2008 8:50:38 AM PDT by Hildy (It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that determine who we truly are. - J.K. Rowling)
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To: bushfamfan

Pres. Bush needs to be allowed to run again!!!


3 posted on 05/07/2008 8:51:03 AM PDT by kcm.org (Now unto Him)
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To: kcm.org
Pres. Bush needs to be allowed to run again!!!

No thanks, I'll pass.

4 posted on 05/07/2008 8:53:05 AM PDT by adm5 (Roger That. - MA2 Michael A. Monsoor, USN - Medal of Honor Recipient Posthumously)
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To: bushfamfan

Impossible...

The policies they pass will create more social programs that are impossible to retract. They will create a dedicated voter block that are so ingrained in governemnt hand-outs that we will never get rid of them (or the entitlements).

A better solution is to fight them tooth and nail.


5 posted on 05/07/2008 8:53:34 AM PDT by Pantera
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To: Hildy

I’M GOING TO VOTE FOR MCCAIN IN NOVEMBER, BUT DON’T TELL ME THERE IS NOT A STRONG POSSIBILITY THE DEMONRATS WILL PREVAIL COME NOVEMBER! I’m telling you should they in fact win you had better wake up and realize the stereotypes will continue if they are not finally exposed for what their policies will do. I’m saying if they get in office, show the results and do not continue on the Clintoon myth of how great a president he was.


6 posted on 05/07/2008 8:54:32 AM PDT by bushfamfan (The sunrise has turned into a sunset.)
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To: bushfamfan
conservatives need to tell the people that if they elect either of them they are going to get all that comes with it.

Sure, that'll work!

7 posted on 05/07/2008 8:56:23 AM PDT by RightWhale (It's still unclear what impact global warming will have on vertical wind shear)
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To: bushfamfan

Right now, I don’t know who is going to win... I think there’s a strong chance Dems will prevail and take incredible majorities in both houses. We have ourselves and an incredibly biased media to blame.


8 posted on 05/07/2008 8:57:11 AM PDT by Hildy (It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that determine who we truly are. - J.K. Rowling)
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To: adm5

Sen. Osama thanks you for your support, FReeper.


9 posted on 05/07/2008 8:57:29 AM PDT by kcm.org (Now unto Him)
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To: Hildy

I guess that makes me insane with anger? I quite calmly consider McCain to be worse than Obama.


10 posted on 05/07/2008 8:57:46 AM PDT by Ingtar (Haley Barbour 2012, Because he has experience in Disaster Recovery. - ejonesie22)
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To: Pantera

And the myth will continue. Conservatives are already dying off. Look at the nomination of McCain for God’s sake! Clintoon skated through this myth by the protection of the GOP Congress. We would not be continuing on this debate and typical, bought into stereotype that the Demonrats are so great for the economy, the poor, etc. etc. and the demonizations thrown on conservatives. The only thing I could see fighting them tooth and nail on is judges. Give them the policies and destroy the Demonrats. Otherwise they will continue to prevail with this charade.


11 posted on 05/07/2008 8:58:09 AM PDT by bushfamfan (The sunrise has turned into a sunset.)
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To: Hildy
People need to consider what McCain will surely do. He will push to make the tax cuts permanent. He will cut spending. Everything else is up in the air.

Hillary/Obama will absolutely raise taxes immediately and they will propose larger spending programs. The rest we also know (Ruth Bader Ginsberg type judges, pulling out of Iraq)

12 posted on 05/07/2008 9:01:14 AM PDT by normy (Don't take it personally, just take it seriously.)
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To: bushfamfan
The only obstacle I could see opposition having to Clintoon or Obama would be regarding judges, but I think the policy should be to pass the policies and finally put an end to the liberal lies and manipulations and shine the light on them.

It took over 25 years for the Supreme Court to finally tilt a bit conservative, and you would throw that away with just one Democratic White House. Conservatives have both numbers and youth on their side. If we allowed even one four-year term, all those aging liberals on the court would retired and be replaced by young liberals. Obama or Clinton will probably get 3-4 supreme court appointments in their first term, two guaranteed. Liberals are on the ropes on the court, with two of the most liberal barely hanging on. Conservatives have a real chance to get a 6-3 or 7-2 court if we win this election. It would take a generation for liberals to change that with the relative youth of the conservatives on the court.

13 posted on 05/07/2008 9:01:32 AM PDT by Always Right (Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?)
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To: Pantera
I am going to vote for McCain, I may throw up in the booth, but I am going to vote for the $%%^%$%$$. Which brings up the other scenario; What could conservatives do to keep him from ruining the country?
14 posted on 05/07/2008 9:02:03 AM PDT by my right
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To: RightWhale

Seriously, think about it. The people continued on with how evil Republicans were obstructing the great Bill Clintoon. And, sad enough, he still is given all this credit for how ‘great’ he was and caring, for the poor, blah blah blah. The myth is there and he was protected and given this ‘greatness’ due to Republicans. I think it has backfired and the charade continues with Shrillery and Obama picking up where he left off.


15 posted on 05/07/2008 9:02:53 AM PDT by bushfamfan (The sunrise has turned into a sunset.)
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To: bushfamfan
"if it is really healthy to prevent them from being exposed as the danger they are to this country?"

Move to a safer country or start electing conservatives in 2008 to end our role of world policeman.

16 posted on 05/07/2008 9:02:59 AM PDT by ex-snook ("Above all things, truth beareth away the victory.")
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To: bushfamfan

I would suggest nonviolent resistance, in all seriousness. The Republican Party is fading fast, and is abandoning its role as a conservative force. You might as well be out in the streets demonstrating against the Democrats.


17 posted on 05/07/2008 9:04:18 AM PDT by popdonnelly (Ain't got no money, but I got guns, religion, and xenophobia)
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To: bushfamfan

The problem is that even when the do “fail”, the country will be too far down the slippery slope to recover. In other words, too many people will be fat and happy with the government handouts. It will be impossible to clean up the mess.

Combining amnesty for 20 million and health care for all is going to create a huge problem for conservatives. I know, John McCain is leading us in that direction too...

We seem to already be hosed. But giving the keys and a blank check to Obama or Hillary is just plain stupid.


18 posted on 05/07/2008 9:04:39 AM PDT by Pantera
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To: Hildy

Judges are the most destructive thing they can do. Other than that, the Demonrats need to be exposed for what their policies do and an end put to the media and Demonrat talking points on conservative policies. Their policies need to be exposed and passed. I don’t want to see a Republican Congress come in in 2010 and give us a Clintoon II. Or Obama being protected in what their policies really mean.


19 posted on 05/07/2008 9:06:23 AM PDT by bushfamfan (The sunrise has turned into a sunset.)
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To: bushfamfan

We can preach to the choir all Sunday morning. Try it with a ‘Bush lied people died’ person, or ‘selected not elected’ person. Report back if any of them, even one of them, notice your arguments.


20 posted on 05/07/2008 9:06:26 AM PDT by RightWhale (It's still unclear what impact global warming will have on vertical wind shear)
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To: bushfamfan

Yeah, left wing Dems are for the poor. BS, they just want power.
It’s like if I say, I’m for garden tools, when what I’m after is ripe vegetables; or, I want to help the dollar bills, when I’m seriously after bacon and eggs and toast in a fancy hotel dining room.


21 posted on 05/07/2008 9:08:17 AM PDT by mockinbird
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To: bushfamfan
Just look at Hillary's pictures (or listen to her or even read what she says) and tell me why anybody would want to vote for this odious lady. There's no way she's going to make it to the White House, although I think Obamanation will be easier for McCain to beat. Obama's been a flash-in-the-pan wonder and a fascination, but this is beginning to give way to what's really there and the American people will not have it. The only reason he's beating Hillary is because she's Hillary. The Republican nominee will be the next POTUS.

To look at it another way, whatever happens, the Dem Convention will be Daffy Duck and Porky Pig in a Looney-Tune get-together of red-diaper-doper-baby (as a certain celeb calls them) adult children. McCain against Daffy or Porky. To take the comic-book character analogy a step further, McCain might as well be Alfred E. Newman saying, “What me worry?”. America isn’t ready (yet) for Daffy or Porky. The Republican nominee be it McCain , Alfred or whoever, will be the next President.

22 posted on 05/07/2008 9:09:02 AM PDT by Jim 0216
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To: Ingtar

The one thing I can say for McCain is that he does love his country. You cannot say that about Demonrats. They love themselves first and foremost. I can see McCain being good on protecting this country and taking on our enemies, but other than that he is atrocious. But dealing with our national security is reason enough for me to vote for him.


23 posted on 05/07/2008 9:09:10 AM PDT by bushfamfan (The sunrise has turned into a sunset.)
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To: Always Right

Let me make this clear: THE ONLY THING REPUBLICANS, CONSERVATIVES SHOULD DO TO OBSTRUCT THE DEMONRATS IS TO ATTEMPT TO DENY THEM APPOINTING JUDGES. Other than that, GIVE THEM THE POLICIES AND PUT AN END TO THE MYTH. They need to be exposed. The media and Demonrats have played it up in that Demonrats are so great and have all the answers and Bush is evil and conservatives want to make more poor people.


24 posted on 05/07/2008 9:13:50 AM PDT by bushfamfan (The sunrise has turned into a sunset.)
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To: bushfamfan

The answer for the GOP is to stabilize the social economical structure of this nation in order to keep the blue collar Dems voters (Reagan Dems). There is nothing wrong with free trade and globalism if the process was not on an accelerated pace and placing all the trust in the judgement of investment bankers and financiers. The US had not fully digested the affects of NAFTA, we add WTO and MFN (largest cheap labor vs our manufacturing base), and GWB wants to add more trade agreements. I have not started on the affects of H-1B workers and open borders policy of GOP. The empty manufacturing and mill towns of the US are now joining with the uneasiness of the service and high tech workers, and they are starting to lash out in this election. Add onto this the insecurity from terrorism and paying for an insurgency war in Iraq. I think a chunk of the American public wants to get off the high speed lane for a while. Most of them may not agree with Obama but he is the only one that will club the free traders, the job outsourcers, the globalist, get us out of Iraq and the GOP who was in charge the last eight years. They will deal with Obama’s socialist policies and illegal immigration amnesty down the road, but today they want the globalist out and the American crusade on hold.


25 posted on 05/07/2008 9:16:53 AM PDT by Fee
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To: bushfamfan
When I voted for Bush I thought I was voting for a Republican. Who knows? I'm voting for Juan McCain - knowing he's a RINO in a lot of respects - but could very well turn out to be more Republican than Bush. At least McCain doesn't have Karl Rove dictating his policies and campaign. I will vote for McCain. Enthusiastically.
26 posted on 05/07/2008 9:17:40 AM PDT by LiberConservative ("Typical" White Guy)
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To: bushfamfan
Let me make this clear: THE ONLY THING REPUBLICANS, CONSERVATIVES SHOULD DO TO OBSTRUCT THE DEMONRATS IS TO ATTEMPT TO DENY THEM APPOINTING JUDGES.

Has never happened and won't happen. If Ruth Bater Ginsburg of the ACLU can win 96-3 when the GOP controlled things, what in the world are they gonna do as the minority. Nothing. As much as the liberal media liked to hype how much the GOP did to stop Clinton from loading up the courts, it pales in comparison to what Democrats do to stop conservatives.

27 posted on 05/07/2008 9:18:53 AM PDT by Always Right (Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?)
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To: bushfamfan

Vote for McCain.

If for no other reason than the Supreme Court noms. Anything else is silly.


28 posted on 05/07/2008 9:19:33 AM PDT by BunnySlippers (Buy a Mac ...)
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To: Pantera

What you don’t realize is that their policies would finally expose them. The slippery slope is already here. The charade continues. They promise everybody flowers and sunshine and continue on with their lies and have the media there to back their every move. Not so good when they are given the opportunity to show what their policies do and it isn’t what they promised. People would be calling for their heads if they see what the consequences are of these liberal policies. I want them destroyed and I see no other alternative with the indoctrination in schools and tv, magazines, etc.


29 posted on 05/07/2008 9:19:52 AM PDT by bushfamfan (The sunrise has turned into a sunset.)
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To: bushfamfan
OK, here's a scenario for conservatives...

Say for a moment Obama wins. What can we expect?

Taxes on Americans are raised

Socialized medicine is rammed through congress as the government takes over one seventh of the country's economy. Massive layoffs occur in the insurance industry, causing a recession in New York, Illinois, Florida, and California.

National gun control laws are erected prohibiting ownership.

A full scale pull-out from Afghanistan and Iran.

Homeland Security is reduced or eliminated/

Gitmo is closed.

Terrorists are emboldened world wide.

Jews are threatened with their physical safety in the United States as a green light is given to Jew Haters to verbally and then physically attack. Incidents of violence against Jews massively increase.

A full scale riot (pogrom) occurs in one Jewish area in Brooklyn, Chicago, or Los Angeles.

America arms the Arabs of Gaza and Judea and Samaria with new tanks, rockets and state of the art offensive weapons.

The barrier walls between the Jews and Arabs is forced down, terror attacks appear instantly and hundreds of Jews die in bombings.

America stands down as Israel's protector.

Israel is pressured to give back all of the Golan..., all of Judea and Samaria.

Hundreds of thousands of Jews are displaced at the point of a gun.

The Arab nations mass for war with Israel.

Seeing America's weakness, Moslems in Europe riot for Sharia Law in France.

Riots occur in England.

Russia decides it is too dangerous to leave their neighbors alone and return in military force to smaller former soviet controlled areas of eastern Europe. The cold war begins again in earnest...

The United States suffers a large scale bombing on the scale of the Oklahoma bombing.

Interest rates are raised and inflation reminiscent of the Carter years returns.

Want to see Obama as president now?

30 posted on 05/07/2008 9:20:21 AM PDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum
You left out all aid is suspended from Columbia while Hugo rearms and finances the FARC while the U.S. stands by. The FARC with Hugo's help invade splitting the country of Columbia and setting up their own marxist regime.
31 posted on 05/07/2008 9:25:53 AM PDT by BBell
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To: Nachum

Don’t forget eliminating secret ballot elections for unionizing and allowing “card check” approval.


32 posted on 05/07/2008 9:26:00 AM PDT by nascarnation
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To: bushfamfan
Now I ask what happens when they are in office and what conservatives should do in response to them and if it is really healthy to prevent them from being exposed as the danger they are to this country?

Owing to dysgenic fertility and the graying of the baby boomers, the USA will begin to disintegrate no later than about 2020.

This [the disintegration] is going to happen, and, at this point, there is nothing anyone can do about it - no politician, no statesman, no preacher, no captain of industry - nobody.

Now Obama is a crypto-Maoist, and, if elected, his legislative program will move the USA a little closer [okay, a lot closer] to a totalitarian, command economy, and so he might speed up the clock a little, so that we might begin to see [anti-] civic chaos and social breakdown in the 2012-2014 timeframe.

But even Obama's effect on our situation will only be marginal; there is nothing anyone can do to avert the blossoming of our nascent demographic disaster:

Senior benefit costs rise 24% since 2000
By Dennis Cauchon>
February 13, 2008
usatoday.com

The cost of government benefits for seniors soared to a record $27,289 per senior in 2007, according to a USA TODAY analysis...

The Fiscal Cost of Low-Skill Immigrants to the U.S. Taxpayer
by Robert E. Rector and Christine Kim
May 21, 2007
heritage.org

...When the costs of direct and means-tested benefits, education, and population-based services are counted, the average low-skill household had a fiscal deficit of $19,588 (expenditures of $30,160 minus $10,573 in taxes)...

Of U.S. Children Under 5, Nearly Half Are Minorities
By D'Vera Cohn and Tara Bahrampour
Wednesday, May 10, 2006; Page A01
washingtonpost.com

...Forty-five percent of U.S. children younger than 5 are minorities...

Statistical Abstract of the United States
Section 1, Population
[see especially Table 8 & Table 9, pages 11-13]
PDF FILE: pop.pdf

 
Circa 2020, every young Caucasian worker [from high school dropouts, to PhD's] will have to come up with $27,289 + $19,588 = $46,877 just to fund government benefits for their [Caucasian] parents and for their counterparts in the minority community.

And that figure of $46,877 doesn't include anything for the Department of Defense, the Department of Transportation, the Department of the Interior, the Army Corps of Engineers, the Department of Energy, the National Institutes of Health [NIH], the Centers for Disease Control [CDC], etc, etc, etc.

I.e. there will be no military, no roads, no bridges, no canals, no health research, no vaccination programs, no electrical grid, no water treatment facilities, no nothing.

And, of course, after ponying up $46,877 to old people and minorities, the typical young Caucasian worker will have little [if any] money left over for his own food, utilities, gasoline, clothing, rent, or, God forbid, mortgage payment - not to mention wife or children.

So either young, productive Caucasians will work as slaves to old people & minorities [and continue to go barren, because they can't afford children of their own], or else young, productive Caucasians will revolt, and we will have something akin to a Civil War.

As conservatives, our duty now is to chart a course for survival in the post-USA years - the years after the USA has dissolved and disintegrated and many of the various remnants resemble Robert Mugabe's Zimbabwe or Fidel Castro's Cuba.

So prepare accordingly.

33 posted on 05/07/2008 9:30:55 AM PDT by KayEyeDoubleDee (const Tag &referenceToConstTag)
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To: bushfamfan
“Give them the policies and destroy the Demonrats. Otherwise they will continue to prevail with this charade”

And when the nation is destroyed they can say...”Republicans thought it was a good idea because they voted for it too.”!

34 posted on 05/07/2008 9:33:21 AM PDT by Beagle8U (FreeRepublic -- One stop shopping ....... Its the Conservative Super WalMart for news .)
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To: bushfamfan

Wow, an open invitation to an all out, nuclear flame war, and here I sit with no popcorn.


35 posted on 05/07/2008 9:37:44 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama's bus needs a lift kit just to clear all the bodies!)
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To: Hildy

Heh..

What freedom?

What freedom would be lost that isnt already lost?

Im sick of people saying that what we have now is freedom. Get a a f-—ing clue! This is not freedom, you and your property are owned and regulated by your local, state and federal government. You are NOT a free.

But that doesn’t matter does it? As long as you keep dumbing down the meaning of freedom.

This is sickening.


36 posted on 05/07/2008 9:38:12 AM PDT by myself6 (Nazi = socialist , democrat=socialist , therefore democrat = Nazi)
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To: Pantera; All
Agreed. Of all the terrible legislation passed by congress every year, what proportion is ever repealed?
37 posted on 05/07/2008 9:40:01 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama's bus needs a lift kit just to clear all the bodies!)
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To: myself6

And all that...AFTER 8 YEARS OF A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT.


38 posted on 05/07/2008 9:40:04 AM PDT by Hildy (It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that determine who we truly are. - J.K. Rowling)
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To: Pantera

“A better solution is to fight them tooth and nail.”

That’s the only solution.


39 posted on 05/07/2008 9:41:42 AM PDT by popdonnelly (Ain't got no money, but I got guns, religion, and xenophobia)
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To: Ingtar
May extreme guilt and shame be heaped upon you! Now, go drink your Koolaid like a good little Repubican! The RNC has a plan for YOU..... Just do as they say and shut up!
40 posted on 05/07/2008 9:43:57 AM PDT by PSYCHO-FREEP (Juan McCain....The lesser of Three Liberals.")
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To: kcm.org

“Pres. Bush needs to be allowed to run again!!!”

Worst president of my lifetime

(Eisenhower - Bust 43)


41 posted on 05/07/2008 9:44:52 AM PDT by atc23
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To: bushfamfan
Do you want party purity by your standards, or would you rather go back to having a third of your income taken away for the common good, like it was during Bill Clinton?

We KNOW what we're facing, OK? Can you people stop beating a dead horse for once??

I am voting McCain and working for a hostile congress to counter his liberal propensities. I suggest you stop agonizing over intangibles and work for that too.

42 posted on 05/07/2008 9:55:24 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama's bus needs a lift kit just to clear all the bodies!)
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To: Nachum

Make sure that you have a suitable bug-out plan that includes retreating to a rural area with enough resources when the SHTF and its TEOTWAWKI.


43 posted on 05/07/2008 9:56:00 AM PDT by SVTCobra03 (You can never have enough friends, horsepower or ammunition.)
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To: bushfamfan

My opinion: If the “Let the Democrats win and in 4 years the nation will be sick of them and vote Republican” concept worked, George W. Bush should have won in a landslide back in 2000. Everyone had that mindset when Slick Willie was elected, it seems too many people stayed home in 2006 with that mindset. Now the country is worse off under Pelosi / Reid and they’re liable to be rewarded with more seats for the crappy job they’ve done. Sure, I’m not happy with McCain, but I’d rather see him become President instead of a guy like Obama, who is so far Left he makes George McGovern look like a conservative.


44 posted on 05/07/2008 9:56:10 AM PDT by stratman1969 (This space for rent)
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To: Ingtar

If you believe that, you are letting your anger overtake your common sense. That’s ok, but don’t kid yourself into thinking it’s anything else.


45 posted on 05/07/2008 9:57:38 AM PDT by Hildy (It is our choices, far more than our abilities, that determine who we truly are. - J.K. Rowling)
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To: my right
"What could conservatives do to keep him from ruining the country?"

Same thing most of us seem to have been doing for the last four years, egged on by the left, all of whom have been laughing all along at the ignorant, racist, homophobic, xenophobic Republican "base". Hell, "conservatives" have been doing the media's job for several years now. Why does everyone THINK the persecution of Bush administration officials suddenly STOPPED??

46 posted on 05/07/2008 9:59:18 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama's bus needs a lift kit just to clear all the bodies!)
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To: Hildy

You mean after yet another 8 years of collectivists running he show?


47 posted on 05/07/2008 10:05:17 AM PDT by myself6 (Nazi = socialist , democrat=socialist , therefore democrat = Nazi)
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To: LiberConservative
With a screen name like that you SHOULD have voted for Bush because he RAN AS A MODERATE, and not have been duped into thinking the EEEEVEEEEL Rove had the ability to take time from micromanaging every traffic jam in the world to dictate policy to the president and you should BE EVEN MORE ENTHUSIASTIC about MCCain.

Your post sounds trollish.

48 posted on 05/07/2008 10:05:52 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama's bus needs a lift kit just to clear all the bodies!)
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To: bushfamfan
The one thing I can say for McCain is that he does love his country.

Then why does he want to sell it out to the New Conquistadores from down south?

49 posted on 05/07/2008 10:10:23 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Hildy
"And all that...AFTER 8 YEARS OF A REPUBLICAN PRESIDENT."

Oh, you didn't like President Reagan?? I certainly did, which is why I worked for his campaign. I'll always miss him. Still, I recall people were angry about illegal immigrants, amnesty and the highest deficit spending in US history, I recall having to pay property taxes and deal with petty ABC and Health Department bureaucrats of varying levels of personal honorability all the time and also that the golden nematode played havoc with people's ability to build a house or business or even farm a field where they wanted to, lest they further endanger the potentially devastating little pests. So I can only assume you mean him.

50 posted on 05/07/2008 10:27:27 AM PDT by cake_crumb (Obama's bus needs a lift kit just to clear all the bodies!)
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