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Tax Reform Poll
Vizu.com ^ | April 13, 2008 | taxplaya/vizu.com

Posted on 05/09/2008 3:55:49 AM PDT by phil_will1

This is the latest tax reform poll that I have seen. This is from an interesting website in which members develop their own polls.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: fairtax; flattax; taxation; taxreform
The FairTax has moved out to a commanding lead - not surprising.
1 posted on 05/09/2008 3:55:49 AM PDT by phil_will1
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To: phil_will1

That did look interesting, but I caution people with limited resources: the site locked my computer up.


2 posted on 05/09/2008 3:57:51 AM PDT by BelegStrongbow (what part of 'mias gunaikos andra' do Episcopalians not understand?)
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To: phil_will1

The site has an interesting feature in which it shows where the votes are coming from, or at least the last 500 of them. Most of these are from the southeast and on up through the midwest.


3 posted on 05/09/2008 4:05:04 AM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: phil_will1

Someone in Ohio likes the tax code just the way it is. Probably either an IRS employee or a CPA.


4 posted on 05/09/2008 4:19:39 AM PDT by meyer (Still conservative, no longer Republican)
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To: phil_will1
The FairTax has moved out to a commanding lead - not surprising.
Not surprising because fantasy is almost always better than reality.
5 posted on 05/09/2008 8:43:57 AM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: lewislynn

I voted to have my cake and eat it too.


6 posted on 05/09/2008 12:10:03 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: lewislynn

“Not surprising because fantasy is almost always better than reality.”

And only the SQLs can distinguish fantasy from reality. They are legends in their own minds.


7 posted on 05/09/2008 2:17:56 PM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: phil_will1
And only the SQLs can distinguish fantasy from reality.
Apparently so.

SQL is so pigdog juvenile. Do you really expect anyone to take anything else you say seriously after that?

8 posted on 05/09/2008 5:30:18 PM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: Your Nightmare

I voted for a free lunch.


9 posted on 05/09/2008 5:31:27 PM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: lewislynn

“Do you really expect anyone to take anything else you say seriously after that?”

There are plenty of people who take what I say very seriously. However, I doubt that any of them share your view that there are no benefits at all to the FairTax; those benefits only exist in the imaginations of the hundreds of thousands of people who support it.

Did you really expect anyone to take what you say seriously after you posted that?


10 posted on 05/10/2008 4:38:58 AM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: Man50D

FairTax ping


11 posted on 05/10/2008 4:40:23 AM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: phil_will1; ancient_geezer; Taxman; Principled; EternalVigilance; kevkrom; n-tres-ted; Jaysun; ...
Fair Tax ping!


12 posted on 05/10/2008 10:37:53 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: phil_will1
Done. Thanks for the ping.

Fair Tax 78.7%
Flat Tax 14.5%
I like the tax the way it is 3.5%
Not sure 1.3%

The Fair Tax is gaining momentum!
13 posted on 05/10/2008 10:42:27 AM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: Man50D

“Flat Tax 14.5%”

Everyone should note the fact that that covers all different versions of the flat tax, of which there are many. If you broke it down to specific flat tax proposals, no single one would get more than 5 or 6% in all probability.


14 posted on 05/10/2008 10:46:45 AM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: phil_will1
Voted. Now the SQL's can negate my vote and proxy for the current mess. And don't forget:

You may be an income tax lover if you:

1. …believe that taxing the creation of wealth is better for the economy than taxing the wealth when it is spent.

2. …believe that returning people’s tax payments to them is welfare.

3. …have no problem with a tax code that is wordier than the Bible.

4. …believe the IRS is a good department and does a good job.

5. …believe that the worst thing you could do is tax the wealth of old geezers who are living off of the sweat of the younger workforce.

6. …love to tell everyone you see that the FairTax was created by Scientologists.

7. …believe that what Bruce Bartlett says is the gospel and that scores of other credentialed economists are only paid shills.

8. …have a habit of going to online chat rooms and posting insults about the “Fairy Taxers.”

9. …think that calculating a tax the same way as the tax it is replacing is dishonest.

10. …think the economy has always been fine under the income tax.

11. …call the FairTax a “cult” because you can’t think of anything else to say.

12. …believe that cutting one tax by 25% and raising another by the same amount is inflationary.

13. …think inflation is caused by high taxes.

14. …think Milton Friedman is an idiot.

15. …have a soft spot in your heart for European style VAT’s.

16. …wrote the ten planks to the Communist Manifesto.

17. …think the prebate is Marxist but not the Communist Manifesto.

18. …sell some sort of tax advantaged product.

19. …claim you clamor for tax reform but have no earthly idea how to do that.

20. ...howl in outrage when the BATF violates the 2nd Amendment but have no concerns when the IRS violates the 1st, 4th and 5th Amendments.

21. ...believe that having the bottom 50% of income earners pay little or nothing to the government has the best chance of limiting that government.

23. ...think that people give to charity just because there is an income tax.

24. ...believe there is nothing you can do about congress.

25. ...believe that the only reason people buy houses is to take advantage of the mortgage deduction.

15 posted on 05/10/2008 10:55:34 AM PDT by groanup (War is not the answer. Victory is.)
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To: Your Nightmare
Not surprising because fantasy is almost always better than reality.

Oh Goody!! Now you have something else to lie about.

16 posted on 05/10/2008 11:13:07 AM PDT by Turret Gunner A20 (“Diplomacy without force is like music without instruments.” -- Frederick the Great)
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To: phil_will1

Thanks for the ping, Phil.

Went to site, waited patiently for all to load, and voted for the FairTax.

Glad to see that the FairTax leads by a significant margin.

I wonder how many anti-FairTax votes the squirrels can muster?


17 posted on 05/10/2008 12:45:38 PM PDT by Taxman (So that the beautiful pressure does not diminish!)
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To: phil_will1; groanup; Turret Gunner A20; Taxman
Everyone should note the fact that that covers all different versions of the flat tax, of which there are many. If you broke it down to specific flat tax proposals, no single one would get more than 5 or 6% in all probability.

The flat tax version with the most cosponsors is nine at last count.
18 posted on 05/10/2008 1:34:08 PM PDT by Man50D (Fair Tax, you earn it, you keep it!)
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To: phil_will1

BTTT


19 posted on 05/10/2008 4:09:34 PM PDT by OKSooner
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To: Turret Gunner A20
To: Your Nightmare

Not surprising because fantasy is almost always better than reality.

Oh Goody!! Now you have something else to lie about.
Aside from how do you lie about a fantasy? You also have the wrong poster Shell Shocked.
20 posted on 05/10/2008 5:27:02 PM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: lewislynn
Aside from how do you lie about a fantasy?

You should know, pipsqueak. You have managed to lie about everything you have even brought up on this forum -- most of which have been your twisted fantasies. Including your childish "Shell Shock asininity.

You also have the wrong poster Shell Shocked.

So you admit that you are the liar this time, instead of YN? Nice of you to finally admit your perverse horse crap.

Why don't you keeep your degeneracy over on DU where it fits?

21 posted on 05/10/2008 6:52:50 PM PDT by Turret Gunner A20 (“Diplomacy without force is like music without instruments.” -- Frederick the Great)
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To: Turret Gunner A20

Do you need another timeout?


22 posted on 05/10/2008 7:30:29 PM PDT by Your Nightmare
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To: Your Nightmare
Do you need another timeout?

Not necessarily, but any time that creeps like you two are silent is certainly refreshing. So, how about you punks going on back over to DU with your sick, childish trash?

23 posted on 05/10/2008 7:39:04 PM PDT by Turret Gunner A20 (“Diplomacy without force is like music without instruments.” -- Frederick the Great)
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To: meyer
Be careful what you say about CPAs. I happen to be one, and a tax accountant at that, who supports the FairTax. Do you know any who oppose it? I don't.
24 posted on 05/10/2008 8:13:02 PM PDT by foxfield
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To: phil_will1
There are plenty of people who take what I say very seriously. However, I doubt that any of them share your view that there are no benefits at all to the FairTax; those benefits only exist in the imaginations of the hundreds of thousands Millions of people who support it.

There. There are hundreds of thousands of financial supporters - but there are millions of supporters.

25 posted on 05/11/2008 7:21:57 AM PDT by Principled (Vaporize the "Divide and Conquer" taxes - Have everyone pay the same marginal rate!. NRST!)
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To: foxfield

The bulk of those that are against the FairTax fall into two categories:

1. Beltway Lobbyists, contractors and their employees dependent on current Tax Code provisions.

2. Persons led astray by anti-FairTax propaganda, often promulgated by those connected with 1. above.

Socialists and other fringe leftist groups are also against the FairTax but their numbers are small in comparison with the two categories listed above.

Tax gaming is a growth industry. Since the last major tax reform in 1986, there have been more than 16,000 tax amendments and a quadrupling in the number of Beltway tax lobbyists to now more than 23,000.

Clearly the current Tax Code provides a comfortable living for those 23,000+ tax lobbyists.

But one shouldn’t worry. After all, the FairTax legislation has won all debates in committee and has survived all attempts to poke holes in its design and prospective effects in Congressional hearings. So the battle is now over tax lobbyist fiefdoms and turf, and the means of waging battle is populist propaganda.

Getting back to numbers, it’s a battle for the hearts and minds of 144,000,000 filers versus 23,000+ power suits on K Street.


26 posted on 05/11/2008 9:33:18 PM PDT by Hostage
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To: Hostage
My post referred to myself and the small number of CPAs I know. I cannot speak for all CPAs and other tax accountants, but your post made me curious about how they stand on the FairTax. I tried Google, but found nothing. I checked the American Institute of Certified Public Accounts (AICPA) Web site--no mention of it, and nothing about where their members stand.

I suppose that tax accountants who work for small businesses would be among the FairTax supporters. They are generalists who see first hand the impact of taxes on business and the economy. They are more focused on compliance and tax planning, and on keeping up with the everchanging rules and regulations, than on contriving tax shelters.

Tax accountants who work in narrow specialties probably don't see as much of the big picture. They work for accounting firms whose services are used by lobbyists and the tax departments of big businesses. They do their jobs and may not get a good appreciation of the impact of the tax system.

Those who work in the "tax gaming" arena, those who contrive and support tax avoidance schemes that skirt the law, would oppose the FairTax. I expect that this field is populated more with tax attorneys though, than accountants.

27 posted on 05/12/2008 6:47:30 AM PDT by foxfield
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To: foxfield

A friend of mine has a small CPA practice on the outskirts of Atlanta. He does some very complex tax returns, and has been in this line of work for years. He told me that about 60% of his revenue comes from tax work. He is a big FairTax supporter because he says that he sees on a daily basis the inequities, waste and inefficiency of the current system. His clients are typically surprised to hear that he supports the FairTax. He tells them that there is plenty of work for him to do for businesses which are thriving in a FairTax world.

I have another acquaintance who has a tax practice a few miles from him. When I discussed the FairTax with him, his response was “you’re trying to put me out of work”.

I don’t know which of those guys are more representative of those who do a lot of tax work. Of CPAs who don’t do much tax work, and therefore do not have a personal vested interest in the perpetuation of a system which meets their financial needs, I would guess that the support is very strong.


28 posted on 05/12/2008 7:22:09 AM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: foxfield

What I meant by ‘tax gaming’ was in reference to the legislative service industry that operates around Congress. For example:

Fred Goldberg was IRS commissioner under President George H.W. Bush. He is now a lobbyist at law firm Skadden Arps Slate Meagher & Flom.

Former US Senator John Breaux retired from the Senate where as a member of the Finance Committee, he often served as a dealmaker on big tax bills. He entertained a number of offers from top Washington lobbying firms and eventually joined the Washington tax lobbyist firm Patton Boggs LLP, which represents companies such as Mars Inc. on tax issues. He joined the firm within three days of being named a commissioner to the Tax Reform Panel (which accomplished nothing much to the delight of tax lobbying groups).

Don Alexander, 83, is a tax lobbyist at law firm Akin Gump Strauss Hauer & Feld, representing defense contractor Bechtel, insurance firm Nationwide and shipping company United Parcel Service, among other clients. He was IRS commissioner during the Ford administration.

Connie Mack, a former Republican senator from Florida, is an adviser at Shaw Pittman LLP, which has lobbied the Internal Revenue Service. He was appointed a commissioner to the Tax Reform Panel along with Senator Breaux.

Former Internal Revenue Service Commissioner Charles Rossotti is on the board of Liquid Engines, a Sunnyvale, California, software company that helps companies reduce taxes. He was appointed as a commissioner on the Tax Reform Panel.

The above just scratches the surface of the tax lobbying business, the revolving doors that exist between high office holders and the lobbying firms. The business is simple, tax favors for sale on Capitol Hill.

This is a glimpse of the entrenched power brokers that use the Tax Code to reward donars and punish foes. They have one fear and that is that a populist ‘people’s movement’ such as the FairTax will put them out of business. They do not discount the possibility of FairTax passage as they have witnessed the rage and anger of the voting public in last year’s comprehensive immigration reform failure. They view the FairTax movement similarly is a war based on populism and they know they must counter using the only means at their disposal, media propaganda as their primary weapon. This is because they cannot win the debate on merits so they must try and twist facts into hysterical extremes if they do not outright lie.

The senior staffers in the tax gaming industry are not only opposed to the FairTax, not only engaged in trying to discredit it with propaganda, they have also been tasked to quash any parallel attempts at repealing the 16th Amendment. They view the 16th as their business license and permit to sell tax favors. If it is repealed, they are out of business permanently.

These tax lobbyists are for a flat tax because they know it will leave the 16th intact and allow them to open new lines of business for tax favors. A flat tax makes tax lobbyists happy and will result in the mess that exists today within two decades.

As for CPAs, the ones I have talked to are basically secure in themselves. they don’t really like tax planning and view it as a waste of their true talents. They say there will always be work for accountants, especially good ones in the field of business planning and forecasting and that is the field they say is the most rewarding. From what I know of the accounting field I believe these remarks are accurate.


29 posted on 05/12/2008 11:07:59 AM PDT by Hostage
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To: Hostage

Thanks for that interesting post, Hostage. I can second what you say about most CPAs preferring to do business planning, forecasting and other work than tax return prep.

As it relates to the President’s Tax Reform Commission, let me add that that panel published two reports. The first, published in around April of 05 was titled “America Needs a Better Tax System”. It was a compilation of the feedback they had gotten from the American public via town hall meetings, e-mails, etc. It was nothing less than a scathing indictment of the current system. Then they issued their final report in about November of that year. It basically recommended some minor “tweaks” to the current system and basically ignored its own earlier report. The evidence is overwhelming that the special interests weighed in between the time of the first report and the second and that the special interests and the lobbying industry won out.

Your comments on the lobbying positions of three of that panel’s members certainly fit into the pattern which is evident from the above sequence of events.


30 posted on 05/12/2008 11:29:56 AM PDT by phil_will1 (My posts are in no way limited or restricted by previously expressed SQL opinions)
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To: phil_will1

Yes indeed it is not difficult to see the hands of special interests and their lobbyists in subverting the latest attempt at tax reform.

I have made an obversation in politics that is easy to make, easy to conceptualize for different purposes but difficult to implement in new settings unless events align to trigger its existence.

The observation I am referring to is that government is most often a boring thing to watch for the bulk of the population, and even if there is interest it is time consuming and frustrating causing many to abandon any idea of participation, leaving only the diehards yelping about errors in judgement, misrepresentation of facts and bemoaning consequences.

This observation is sometimes accompanied by a related pedestrian observation that is often independent of the legislative process on Capitol Hill and which serves to rally the voting public into action. The Left is good at contriving these reactions by planning events, whereas the Right often waits for a lucky break in the form of a natural development.

A lucky break occurred last year in reference to comprehensive immigration reform. There were a series of marches, demostrations and public speaking events where illegal Hispanics attempted to show their numbers and the power in their numbers. This backfired on the organizers of these events as it woke up the American voting public to rally and execute a backlash against the power brokers pushing immigration reform. Needless to say many US Senators were stunned at the rage and anger of the electorate against their reform efforts, which were viewed as business as usual.

But it took hundreds of thousands of illegals marching and the cumulative observations of millions of Americans at witnessing illegals on nearly every street corner to understand that Congress was out of touch with the reality on the ground and seemingly against the will of the people.

There is no question that the American public is now enraged at the tax mess it faces. However, there are no similar observations of street corners or organized events that get in the face of voters and serve to make tax reform an incendiary matter. We wait to see what Congress will propose.

In the next days I am scheduled to present a proposal plan to put the tax mess and its consequences in all of our faces everywhere we go. I will be presenting before some very important FairTax leaders. It will possibly involve the introduction of new legislation. We will see how it goes.

By the way Mike Huckabee is reported to be at the top of the list as VP for the McCain ticket. That is very good news. He has taken a very bad rap from some so-called conservatives here on Free Republic. Many of the current cohort of posters on this forum have shown a tendency to swallow bad information without doing expected due diligence. I call it being lazy. I see it a degradation in the forums here. Whereas there were once many posters that shared deep understanding and insight, there are now more shallow minded hecklers. It has caused me to post on other blogs and then post repetitions here.


31 posted on 05/12/2008 12:58:12 PM PDT by Hostage
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To: Hostage
All your essays, wishful thinking gobbldegoop, pretending to know peoples motives and soothsaying aside the Fairtax is simply a bad idea for the country.

Hopefully your new dream plan won't be laced with double talk, lies, deceptions and downright embarrassing examples of math and statistics. Maybe then you can get somewhere.

New legislation? Just what we need. More go nowhere legislation.

Why isn't the Fairtax plan like any successful state sales tax plan? If a sales tax is such a great idea pick a state sales tax plan and run with it.

32 posted on 05/13/2008 4:12:44 PM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: phil_will1

How about no tax with the replacement of a yearly citizen fee paid annually. Everyone pays the same dollar amount. No tracking my life.


33 posted on 05/13/2008 4:30:37 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: Hostage
The bulk of those that are against the FairTax fall into two categories:

1. Beltway Lobbyists, contractors and their employees dependent on current Tax Code provisions.

2. Persons led astray by anti-FairTax propaganda, often promulgated by those connected with 1. above.

How about renters who don't want to be taxed continuously for renting a property that the landlord gets tax-free?

34 posted on 05/13/2008 4:34:43 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: lewislynn
Why isn't the Fairtax plan like any successful state sales tax plan? If a sales tax is such a great idea pick a state sales tax plan and run with it.

Because the Federal Gov't is a hungrier beast than a state, and would require taxation of food and rent when no state does so.

35 posted on 05/13/2008 4:37:34 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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To: dan1123
... would require taxation of food and rent when no state does so.
No state taxes food and rent? You know that to be a fact?
36 posted on 05/13/2008 5:39:06 PM PDT by lewislynn (What does the global warming movement and the Fairtax movement have in common? Disinformation)
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To: lewislynn
No state taxes food and rent? You know that to be a fact?

Okay, there are a couple of states that charge sales tax on groceries, and a few have income tax that charges landlords for rental income, but generally groceries and rent are not taxed for state sales tax.

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States

37 posted on 05/13/2008 6:08:46 PM PDT by dan1123 (If you want to find a person's true religion, ask them what makes them a "good person".)
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