Posted on 05/09/2008 10:46:43 AM PDT by Mad-Margaret
When Chris Fegley and his son, 4-year-old Gavin, venture out for a meal, their restaurant choice depends on the location's smoke level.
"I can appreciate the people that argue for clearly defined and walled-off areas with ventilation, that if they want to smoke in their area, that's fine," the 34-year-old Jackson resident said. "But we avoid restaurants that are smoking for (Gavin's) well-being."
With the Michigan Senate's approval of a bill Thursday prohibiting smoking in all bars, restaurants and workplaces, the Fegleys soon might not have to be picky about where to dine.
The bill, which passed by a 25-12 vote, differs from a bill passed by the House in December by not including exceptions for casinos, bingo halls and other buildings. The House and Gov. Jennifer Granholm, who has said she will sign a smoking ban, must approve the bill for it to become law.
Some fear the government is overstepping its authority.
(Excerpt) Read more at mlive.com ...
That's probably why this story hasn't been posted yet.
Please ping the Michigan and the nanny state lists.
Is this worse than Ohio? They’re even going after the cigar bars!
Big question: How is the Greektown Casino affected? I think it’s 60 percent Indian owned. Does that mean it’ll be exempt?
This may not be a bad idea. I will say that I quit smoking a little while ago. Got tired of being picked out of a crowd to be taxed. Now maybe all the other people will pay the taxes when the cities run out of money because they made everyone quit smoking. If they want people to quit smoking, why don’t they ban the sale of smokes? They won’t do that because the smokes are taxed and they want the money. Just follow the money and you’ll see where their real intentions are. Don’t you just love double standards? And they wonder why people cheat on just about everything they can to save their money from the government.
Florida has lost 30% of their Mom & Pop business’s due to this law. Illinois gambling revenue has dropped 29% due it. And the business’s are feeling the outcome as well and this went into effect only in January. Now I see Michigan, who’s BOOMING business industry and tourist industry is gonna try and hold the wolf from their front door. Each should leave it up to the business’s to decide who pays their bills.....smokers or non smokers.
When Chris Fegley and his son, 4-year-old Gavin, venture out for a meal, their restaurant choice depends on the location's smoke level....which is the way it ought to be....
"But we avoid restaurants that are smoking for (Gavin's) well-being."....which again, is the way it ought to be....
Some fear the government is overstepping its authority....of course it is...
and....which it will until "we the people" get enough and change the "government" by peaceful means....or by extraordinary means if necessary....
I’m actually OK with this. Nasty habit to even be around.
Are you compelled by others to enter an establishment that allows smoking against your will?
If so, could you relate the circumstances?
A Wisconsin (which has not enacted a statewide draconian smoking bann yet) recent anti-smoking TV commercial offered this to viewers presented by a teenager as “fact”. “Last year over 8000 Wisconsinites died from smoking. Check the facts”. I didn’t know an autopsy lists “smoking” as a cause of death unless of course that person died in a fire. Point is its OK to create a pseudo scientific premise to advance a good cause, after all like global warming the end justifies the means.
I think the acid test are smoking clubs. They are set up with the following parameters.
1) They are private, for profit clubs. Members must sign an affidavit and orally state on video that they understand the risks involved with tobacco use, that they must furnish their own tobacco and consumption accessories, that if at any time they believe their individual health is at risk they will stop consuming tobacco and forfeit their club membership, and that they are not now, have never been, or will ever be employed, remitted, or approached by a lawyer, governmental agency or anti-smoking organization.
2) Such clubs do not have employees, only shareholders who volunteer work in exchange for shares in the club. This means that they are not covered by OSHA regulations.
3) Members are prohibited from discussing business, and no one may be excluded from the club because of race, sex, religion, etc., but only by either government, legal, anti-smoking organization, or other anti-smoking interest employment, membership or remittance.
Now, given these things, if anyone objects to clubs of this sort, they are authoritarians. By going to these extremes, the clubs hope to insulate themselves from those who would try and prevent them from engaging in a legal activity.
There is no legitimate argument against such clubs.
Smoking clubs? That sounds good to me. But you know they will find a way to ban those too.
Thanks God I can cook. Going out to restaurants and bars isn’t as much fun as it used to be. I cannot understand why everyone can’t just let the market prevail.
With all the problems in this state, the Lansing people have to go after this?
Nanny State PING!!!!!!!!
I can't answer your question, but I bet GOP Lady can!
They did the same in Delaware with the cigar bars --- heck you can't even smoke in a tobacco shop in Delaware.
Thanks for the ping!
If these legislators had any cajones at all, they would ban tobacco in the state of MI.
But then, they are politicians, so that means they are gutless enemies of private property and individual liberty. Can’t wait to see their supporters posting on FR.
“I’m actually OK with this.”
Glad to see convenient conservatism is alive and well on FR. Did you also support the Kelo decision?
But, but, but.............the proponents of these bans SWORE they are good for business and business would BOOM once they went into effect.
Is it possible the nanny-statist anti-smokers LIED?????
Given the indisputably extensive experience these proponents have in the business world, who wouldn't give enormous weight to their opinions in these matters?
As a business owner I am not OK you with you dictating my clientele. Selfishness is a nasty habit to be around.
The globull warming alarmist learned well from the anti-smoker cartel in the art of pseudo science.
You are correct, however there are laws on the books in many states with smoker bans that prohibit such clubs.
*Now I see Michigan, who’s BOOMING business industry and tourist industry is gonna try and hold the wolf from their front door.*
Seriously, Michigan should actually be legalizing stuff up to and including human sacrifice just to get people to visit and spend some money.
Someone with an above room temperature IQ? ROFL!
I'm giong to be working all weekend (tending bar in a smoker friendly venue) and will be scarce, so let me take this opportunity to wish you a Happy Mothers' Day!!!!
1) It costs $250.00 a year for a membership.
2) It has NO employees (the Minnesota law is expressly to protect employees and "the general public).
3) It requires a "key" card to enter.
4) All members have to sign an affidavit declaring they except the risk of smoking and second hand smoke.
The idea came from a cigar store owner who's store is right next door. You are not allowed to smoke cigarettes in there but that's OK because I am a cigar smoker anyway. He has had some good lawyers look this over and all of them gave the thumbs up to it. Most of them are members. So, it can be done but you have to look carefully at your state laws.
That’s great for you.
Believe me, I looked into plenty of the various state laws. While we were fighting the ban in Delaware we looked into the idea of a private smokers’ club such as you describe because the law exempts private clubs and fraternal and veteran’s organizations. There was no way a bar could be turned into a private club without first giving up its liquor license for a year, even the cigar bars could not, and then there was no guarantee they would be again granted a new license.
In Maryland the private clubs are included in the ban, same in NY, Maine, and a bunch of other states. Some of the proposals they keep floating around here in Virginia also include the private clubs.
As I said good for you, I hope more and more people will do similar in other states that have not yet been over taken by the nanny do-gooders.
Show me a recent ban or restriction that has passed because of a legitimate argument and not scare tactics, false science or reporting. That's the problem.
He doesn’t like the SMMMEEELLLLLL WAHHHHHHHHHHH
Can’t smoke anywhere in OheilO, I was able to light up for a while in my old smoke shack , they had a few tables inside, and you could still get coffee and food. They cook the food in the back, but their primary income comes from booze, cigars, and cigarettes, as well as bulk tobacco, papers, etc. The state had said tobacco stores were exempt, but one day the Health Dept, came around, due to a squealer, and were pissed about the fact people could still set down in comfort and enjoy a smoke with a coffee or a sandwich or a few pieces of chicken. They told the owner he’d have to prove via reciepts his income from the smokes was his primary income (certain percentage). He said to hell with it, and the state banned smoking in there. I stopped going there, because I won’t give my business to someone who has no balls to fight. The OheilO law was actually written AFTER it was voted into law-no, I’m not kidding. I haven’t found a single place in Toledo where it’s legal to smoke, including private clubs or tobacco stores.
The smoking threads, gas prices threads, and operation chaos threads will all tell you this site is about fifty per cent convenient conservatives now, many are active Clinton supporters.
Your daughter's a lucky girl.
I'm signing my house over to him tomorrow because he doesn't like the color.
God forbid his sensibilities should be offended in any way.
After all, HE HAS RIGHTS!!!
That's sweet of you to say, but I think I'm the lucky one. She can infuriate me to no end at times, but I wouldn't trade her for anything - even the repeal of all smoker bans. LOL!!!!
She's the reason I keep fighting this nonsense, not because it is about smoking, because it is about what should be the American way of life........a life free of the damned nanny-state.
His response was that he had no problem with it since "all he read" on the ban in New York was that no bars or restaurants suffered. I then suggested he search the internet because all the info I had was that bars were going out of business.
Michigan's economy is bad enough and bars have always been an outlet for the week's frustrations. If this ban is approved by the House of Representatives then that will be just another nail in the coffin here in Michigan.
When I told the owner of the bar that if there is such a ban, I won't set foot in there again. He didn't acknowledge my comment. What he hasn't given thought to is the fact that about 25% of his patrons smoke...............
He's in for a rude awakening.....
Good for the Fegleys but I don't think they've ever considered going into the bars in Detroit or Hamtramck.............or my local bar for that matter. Who's going to pick up the slack?
You think the bars in the run-down neighborhoods of Detroit or the non-upscale neighborhood bars in its suburbs have the cash to hire attorneys to work these things out?????
Sorry but that ain't going to happen. Joe's Pub on 9 mile rd. and Stan's Beer Stop on 13 mile are now in their end days...........
Are you? So you are in favor of your government forcing your neighborhood bar to comply with a law that bans the consumption of a perfectly legal product?
Are you also in favor of a ban that prohibits the sale of alcohol in any restaurant or bar?
Michigan has purposely gone about engineering a single-state economic depression. Downtown and suburban Beirut looks more prosperous than similar areas in Detroit, and yet this is the priority.
We are finished as a nation.
There really is no organized resistance except from restaurant and tavern associations who know they will soon be broke. It's all part of the playbook. The clueless, witless part time legislators/dry cleaners/retireees/liberal do gooders/real estate agents are no match for the well oiled anti-tobacco machine. They are played like the dumbasses they are.
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We the People Sheeple of the United States Nanny State, in Order to form a more perfect Union Socialist Utopia, establish Justice Socially engineer a country of non smoking, physically fit, teetotalers, insure domestic Tranquility Smoking bans in bars, limits on unhealthy food and social drinking, provide for the common defense Universal Healthcare, promote the general Welfare health of the population whether they like it or not, in order to save above mentioned Universal Healthcare entitlement program from bankruptcy, and secure the Blessings of Liberty Dependency to ourselves progressive liberals and our Posterity Hitler Youth who we brainwash through public school education, do ordain decree and establish this Constitution for the United States of America. Nanny State of Liberals.
I feel your pain. If the Gubmint would intervene and do something about your nasty habit of walking around in a bathing suit in the pool and beach area in my vacation resort, I'm sure I would appreciate it too.
"What most people really object to when they object to a free market is that it is so hard for them to shape it to their own will. The market gives people what the people want instead of what other people think they ought to want. At the bottom of many criticisms of the market economy is really lack of belief in freedom itself. The essence of political freedom is the absence of coercion of one man by his fellow men. The fundamental danger to political freedom is the concentration of power. The existence of a large measure of power in the hands of a relatively few individuals enables them to use it to coerce their fellow men. Preservation of freedom requires either the elimination of power where that is possible, or its dispersal where it cannot be eliminated. It essentially requires a system of checks and balances, like that explicitly incorporated in our Constitution..."
-- Milton Friedman, The New Liberal's Creed: Individual Freedom, Preserving Dissent Are Ultimate Goals," May 18, 1961
When CO banned smoking that is when I stopped going to restaurants, bars, etc. Enjoy the loss of revenue and declining businesses.
The same vilification of gun owners has been going on in the media for years. How will you feel when the scales finally tip and gun owners are seen as being just as vile as tobacco smokers now are?
It is maddening. Large scale social engineering is a heavy lifting job that needs massive brainwashing of the compliant sheeple to change attitudes and behaviors.
Libs are successful in brainwashing soccer moms into hating smokers, buying into a global warming scam and saving the carribou, trees and polar bears.
Minus the MSM it is difficult to accomplish the same incremental social engineering, hearts and mind campaign to save unborn humans.
That’s the thing with libs....they love animals but they hate people.
Nothing left for me to do other than have some fun with the clueless legislators who kicked their hard working neighbors out of bars.
I wish Bill Gates' programs made computers work so smoothly.
Doncha just love our gummints?
Ready to tell everybody exactly what they can or cannot do.
Well, I mean, except for illegal immigrants...
When they came for the drinkers during Prohibition, I did not speak out, as I was not a drinker.
When they came for the employees of the oldest profession in the world, I did not speak out, as I had no interest in purchasing sex.
When they came for the purveyors of what was deemed to be "obscene" or "offensive", I did not speak out, as I was not a fan of entertainers like Lenny Bruce or Howard Stern.
When they came to ban the female mammary gland from TV, I did not speak out, because Brian Boitano told me not to.
When they came for the marijuana smokers, I did not speak out, as I was not a marijuana smoker.
When they came for the steroid users, I did not speak out, as I was not a steroid user.
When they came for the _______ (insert nominally objectionable behavior here), I did not speak out as I was not a _________ (fill in the blank).
When they came for the fireworks buyer, I did not speak out, as I just sat on my lawn chair and watched the State sponsored 4th of July event
When they came for the pornographers, I did not speak out, as I was not a pornographer.
When they came for the people who don't wear seatbelts, I did not speak out, as I always wore my seatbelt.
When they came for the gun owners, I did not speak out, as I was not a gun owner.
When they came for the gamblers, I did not speak out, as I was not a gambler.
When they came for the "polluters", I did not speak out as I was not a polluter.
When they came for the SUV drivers, I did not speak out, as I did not drive an SUV.
When they came for the cigarette smokers, I did not speak out, as I was not a smoker.
When they came for the overweight and the obese, I did not speak out, as I was not overweight or obese.
When they came for the drinkers (again), I did not speak out, as I was not a drinker.
Then they came for me...and there was nobody left to speak out.
Wow, I knew Michigan was a liberal state, but I never knew they had a North Korean-style command economy. Those poor Michigan workers...assigned to a job and never allowed to leave.
Maybe instead of adopting a smoking ban Michigan should instead recognize a worker's right to seek other employment. You know, the way it's done in the rest of the free world.
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