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Joe Galloway: An indictment of our Army's competence
Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 5/2/08 | Joseph L. Galloway

Posted on 05/11/2008 9:48:29 PM PDT by Dawnsblood

The latest outrage is a father's video of a U.S. Army barracks at Fort Bragg, N.C., the home of the 82nd Airborne Division.

It shows the quarters where his soldier son and other soldier sons were sent to live upon their return from combat. Mold and mildew and peeling paint are bad enough, but what about a big barracks bathroom ankle-deep in raw sewage?

Scandals like this latest one and an earlier eruption of public outrage over the miserably maintained quarters where wounded soldiers were warehoused at Walter Reed Army Hospital are an indictment of the core competency of our Army.

If the Army cannot afford to maintain minimally decent standards of housing and feeding our soldiers - and treat them with the best medical care and all the loving attention they deserve when they're wounded in combat - then, by God, the Army doesn't deserve to have ANY soldiers at all.

There's only one real demand we place on the Army: That the institution turn out a well trained, well-armed, highly motivated American soldier to protect our nation and defeat our enemies.

If this job is beyond the grasp of those who run the U.S. Army, then the Army needs new leadership that understands this demand and can get the job done every day, not just on those days when the hot light of scandal is shining in one dark corner or another.

(Excerpt) Read more at sltrib.com ...


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; US: North Carolina
KEYWORDS: army; barracks; bragg; galloway
Cpt Jason looks at it here.
1 posted on 05/11/2008 9:48:29 PM PDT by Dawnsblood
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To: Dawnsblood
It's a reflection of our culture. A good many Americans barely realize we have an Army.

I am ashamed of this as an American, and it needs to get fixed.

2 posted on 05/11/2008 9:53:11 PM PDT by lawnguy (The function of wisdom is to discriminate between good and evil-Cicero)
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To: Dawnsblood

This could simply be a severe budget constraint problem, but I strongly suspect that it’s actually full blown CYA - don’t make waves, don’t stick your neck out, don’t draw attention to yourself by complaining or requesting things that don’t interest the top brass.


3 posted on 05/11/2008 10:00:40 PM PDT by Dumpster Baby (Eschew obfuscation)
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To: Dawnsblood
"Mold and mildew and peeling paint are bad enough, but what about a big barracks bathroom ankle-deep in raw sewage?...Scandals like this latest one and an earlier eruption of public outrage over the miserably maintained quarters where wounded soldiers were warehoused at Walter Reed Army Hospital are an indictment of the core competency of our Army."

It is not just the Army, though. The condition of the housing for the soldiers at the Navy Weapons Deopt in Colts Neck, NJ is poor as well. I spoke to a Marine who works at the base, who told me that he lives off-base and receives a stipend for off-base housing.

He asserted that although the billets were brand new, the floors had already started to buckle. So it is present everywhere in the Armed Forces, not just the Army

4 posted on 05/11/2008 10:12:58 PM PDT by BloodOrFreedom
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To: Dawnsblood

> The best military leaders I’ve known never ate or slept until they’d first seen to the needs of their soldiers. Never. Got that? NEVER.

The list of “the best military leaders” Joe Galloway would know is impressive indeed: it includes Gen. Hal Moore, S-Maj Basil Plumley and the late Rick Rescorla (all heroes of Ia Drang). Galloway therefore writes with some considerable authority, and the Army should take immediate steps to pay careful attention.


5 posted on 05/11/2008 10:17:09 PM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Dawnsblood
....but what about a big barracks bathroom ankle-deep in raw sewage?

Anybody who has gone their entire lives living in houses where a sewer pipe has NEVER backed up or plugged up, raise your hand.

Anybody?

6 posted on 05/11/2008 11:21:07 PM PDT by Polybius
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To: Dawnsblood

All I ever hear from liberals is how much Bush has spent on the military and how it’s so terrible that he’s spending money on the military. Well, we haven’t spent enough if you ask me.


7 posted on 05/11/2008 11:26:05 PM PDT by LifeOrGoods? (Liberalism=stupidity=Obama=false 'hope'=true defeat)
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To: lawnguy
Before placing blame one needs to get the true facts, My son who is stationed at FT. Bragg told us on our 2 week ago visit that the barracks in question were and still are getting torn down, many of the barracks being torn down are in the same neighborhood as the actual living quarters it is very easy to walk into a run down barrack because they all look alike, I and our son believe the solder and the father did just that and the father is making a big deal about nothing.
8 posted on 05/12/2008 3:59:04 AM PDT by bikerman (_ _ . /_ _ _ /_ . . / / . . . . / . / . _ . . / . _ _ . / / . . _ / . . . //)
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To: bikerman
I back up your statement. I live near Fort Bragg, past 4 years. Been on and all over the base. It's an old base, and some of the original structures are there, meanwhile newer ones are being built regularly. You won't find litter anywhere on the base. Grasses and landscaping are always in tip-top shape, barracks are cleaned more regularly, more rigorously than most homes throughout America.

And here's the freakin' clincher: Barracks and Building INSPECTIONS are done so regularly, no one was NOT noticing a "plumbing issue".

What are disasters and messes to the military are usually considered "normal" in the civilian life world.

Getting Dems to approve ANY MONEY for military has always been difficult.

Fort Bragg is undergoing a HUGE change - with closing out Pope AFB, and expansion in other ways -- the areas surrounding Fort Bragg are looking at incoming of 10,000 newer people to the area.

I have nothing to say about this "complaining dad's" input on the "situation" at Fort Bragg except to wonder what the hell he was thinking when he went public with his complaint, and in a time of war.

9 posted on 05/12/2008 4:42:10 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Dawnsblood

There’s verbiage and word choices selected for by this author which have my hackles raised.


10 posted on 05/12/2008 4:45:20 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Alia

You know what he was thinking, he wanted his son transfered to some where like Adak Alaska for his commentary instead of returning to Iraq.

Or mustered out to shut the old man up.


11 posted on 05/12/2008 4:49:44 AM PDT by usmcobra (I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese)
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To: Dawnsblood
Sorry my thoughts are no surprise here. After working with the army (directly) and the leadership in the Army is non-existent (you can't have 2-3 stellar leaders that can impact the Army directly)

(1976 - 1996) Worked with Army forces in my capacity as a Marine and as a Navy Corpsman.

(2005 - 2008) Scumbag contractor (their words) Iraq, Afghanistan

CRCX2

Buffoons = Army Leadership (Maj & above and the fools that the same leadership promote in the enlisted ranks SFC-SGTMAJ) Sorry to be so brutal but when you see the troops suffer like this it is a inbred problem with the Army leadership.

12 posted on 05/12/2008 5:00:11 AM PDT by SERE_DOC (Todays politicians living proof why we need have a second amendment to the constitution.)
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To: usmcobra
grin! You most certainly read my mind, USMCobra -- that's exactly how I read the "dad's" complaint. And in now reading Joe Galloway's full article, I'm thinking bigger, more globally anti-America......

Joe Galloway's screed does not read as a "realistic" experience of one touting such military experience. Anyone with any *real* experience in military life knows -- an overflowing "sewage" pipe could just as readily been caused by a "joke" behavior by a recruit(s). Yep, there are times when a barracks, especially an all male barracks does and can resemble an Animal House Frat.

Galloway's screed has a certain lack of something.

13 posted on 05/12/2008 5:01:19 AM PDT by Alia
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To: SERE_DOC
Indicting the entire leadership within the military structure is hooey, too. My daughter, for example, was under the wing of an elitist but who had all the "right connections" and it made her life fairly miserable. So what? She's mostly had some regular decent people as her command and in her commanding chain.

In civilian life, the "great boss" tends to be more the exception than the norm. The great "team" work experience is usually more the exception than the norm.

And through Iraq and Afghanistan, I got to hear the rumbles from various wings and divisions in active duty about 3 incompetent boobs out of hundreds of excellent leaders.

It happens.

Sure, she hated the duration she was under this incompetent, but danged if she didn't learn a TON about reality and life. A side benefit was the entire group under this leader were fairly united in their dislike of him, and so, despite his lack of skills, they all pulled together and ran the unit like a top. Definitely, the Peter Principle in play.

The worst part of any job (be it civilian or military)? Having to work with other (flawed) people.

14 posted on 05/12/2008 5:12:10 AM PDT by Alia
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To: BloodOrFreedom
Scandals like this latest one and an earlier eruption of public outrage over the miserably maintained quarters where wounded soldiers were warehoused at Walter Reed Army Hospital are an indictment of the core competency of our Army."

A major indictment of the core competency of our Army? Who is kidding whom here.

When "core competency of our Army" is equated to the level of property managers??? The "core competency of our Army" is equated to inner city Section 8 housing facilitators?

Let's go a step further then. You wouldn't believe the squalid conditions our TROOPS endure at medical facilities in Iraq and Afghanistan. There's DUST everywhere! INDICT THE MILITARY for core incompetency!

15 posted on 05/12/2008 5:20:18 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Dawnsblood
And OMG! Those poor enlisted get splinters from doing training exercises! And the famous "gas mask" testing! Core incompetency, certainly. Doesn't anyone realize the realize our military guys might vomit from such an exercise?

Hell, our poor guys and gals also have to live in "shared tents" when they go to war (tents, if they are among the lucky ones)! OMG. And the raw sewage from the countries they go to definitely exhibit incompetency in our military leadership - subjecting our troops to stuff like that. Oh dear.

16 posted on 05/12/2008 5:24:59 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Alia

I got blocked and my comments removed by the dad’s you tube video because I told him that his son couldn’t take care of himself or the barracks he lived in and listed how to fix each problem he found.

if the barracks was trashed it is because none of those living there are cleaning after themselves or cleaning it themselves.

Perhaps dad expect a bevy of Mexican maids to square it away while his son sips mint juleps on the parade grounds.


17 posted on 05/12/2008 5:30:04 AM PDT by usmcobra (I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese)
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To: Alia

I really do not have a problem with flawed people (being the chief flawed biological unit that I am) what I do have a problem with is incompetent, self absorbed pompous ass’s that excel in a vacuum. Afghanistan is a prime example Bagram AFB (run by the Army) is an example of incompetence, if it was left to me I would recall every commander of that base except the 1st and charge all them with fraud. the conditions are primeval. Not the troops ever but the leadership.


18 posted on 05/12/2008 5:40:39 AM PDT by SERE_DOC (Todays politicians living proof why we need have a second amendment to the constitution.)
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To: lawnguy

You’re right. As long as there aren’t muzzies setting IEDs in suburbia, most Americans could care less for the military. This is Clinton’s legacy at its worst.


19 posted on 05/12/2008 5:45:14 AM PDT by CholeraJoe ("He wasn't scared of the Shogun, but the Shogun was scared of him.")
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To: SERE_DOC

IIRC, the folks at Bagram have it pretty nice.


20 posted on 05/12/2008 5:45:46 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (Win Congress! The Presidency is lost already...)
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To: usmcobra
Kudos to you. You do know. You DO know the military experience from the ground up.

I was in the San Francisco Bay Area when my daughter was in Afghanistan Spring 2002. It was mostly the WWI and WWII generationers who had my back. But this younger generation of Americans? The biggest comment I got from them was: "I'd never let my kid be in the military because I love my child so much". Meaning, I didn't.

Their comments didn't bother me per se, considering the source, but I saw and knew their children to be first-class, full roaming Class-5 vapor, spoiled brats. Their parents couldn't see it. Everyone else around them saw it, including me. That's what bothered me -- the elitist "on the ground" so-called adult raising dysfunctional offspring.

Anyone with a love/hate attitude having served in military, I consider to be someone who's really been there. Anyone who indicts the entire military on a snapshot imaging, is not to be taken for real.

It would be in keeping form for Democrats to use the military budget for arms, vests, etc., to be diverted into "housing" issues.

Treating our military like "homeless".

Thank you for your attempts to raise clarity on the issue of the Dad and his sewage "issues".

21 posted on 05/12/2008 5:48:13 AM PDT by Alia
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To: DieHard the Hunter
"The best military leaders I’ve known never ate or slept until they’d first seen to the needs of their soldiers. Never. Got that? NEVER."

Somewhere along the line, an inversion occurred amongst the top brass's outlook that, IMHO is the root of these types of problems. At one time, "leadership," was the foremost quality sought amongst the officer class. Pre-commissionees, whether Academy, OCS or ROTC were all inculcated with the desire to lead effectively...with "management" being but one of many qualities necessary to lead. It seems that during my 10 years of active commissioned service, "Management" became the primary sought after trait, with, "leadership" being just another quality in the long list of traits of a "manager."

When viewed in this context, it's not really hard to see how the barracks of America's premier combat division can fall into such disrepair. I'm sure at some point, cleaning them up was not considered, "cost-effective."

22 posted on 05/12/2008 5:56:37 AM PDT by Joe 6-pack (Que me amat, amet et canem meum)
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To: BloodOrFreedom
Most military receiving a stipend to live "off base" are not doing so because "housing on base" is so bad - most are going for the stipend because they like having a personal life. Many would actually prefer to live on base -- reducing their drive-time and wake-up calls for PT. My daughter moved off base at a time when she was not qualified for ANY stipend for housing and because she slept better.

Most kids going to college really like the "dorm" idea until after multiple semesters when they are really serious about getting sleep, getting to study and not being disturbed by parties and late night events at the dorm.

It's the same with military.

23 posted on 05/12/2008 5:59:48 AM PDT by Alia
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To: SERE_DOC

lol! Re Bagram. My daughter and others would probably agree with your assessment, and would also kick sand in your face for writing publically this sentiment.


24 posted on 05/12/2008 6:01:18 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Mr Rogers
IRC, the folks at Bagram have it pretty nice.

lol! That's what most the troops in the field in them there parts have to say about those at Bagram too.

25 posted on 05/12/2008 6:03:18 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Alia

I’ve holy stoned decks in a wooden barracks. Nothing this dad whined about would have stopped me from living there or from fixing the problems I saw in his video.

Mildew in the ceiling tiles take them out spray them with mildew cleaner and put them in the sun for a few hours, paint as needed.

Broken toilet seat, go midnight requisition one from an empty room or a nearby barracks.

Sewer gases from the drains of removed water fountains? The army has millions of rolls of this olive drab tape they use for anything and everything and no one could plug a pipe with it? A Marine would find a new scuttlebutt and install it.

I did all of the above and more in my barracks and when we were done our CO inspected them and ran his bare hands underneath the rim of the facilities to ensure there was no foreign matter inside the bowls.


26 posted on 05/12/2008 6:09:48 AM PDT by usmcobra (I sing Karaoke the way it was meant to be sung, drunk, badly and in Japanese)
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To: usmcobra
You are talking about the men and women in the military that I know, too. Just like you. Women's barracks had a plumbing problem. Amazing how they got it fixed. They didn't whine. They didn't post YouTubes. They didn't write Hot-Lip Hoolihan letters of "core military problems". They got it done.

The tools, the experts, the materials are all right there, on base, working alongside each other. The rules are the rules, in military life, and then there are the "rules".

The higher up one goes in military, as well as civilian life, one seems to carry with them this ability to remember how they had to "struggle" on their own, and each vows to ensure to make it better for those "below" them, when the simple fact of the matter is -- it is what it is.

Here we have an author, Joe Galloway, who's well connected with higher ups, writing about how awful it is to be a grunt. And accusing military top brass of incompetency.

lol

Bring Back "Catch 22"! lol

27 posted on 05/12/2008 6:19:10 AM PDT by Alia
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To: Alia
The biggest comment I got from them was: "I'd never let my kid be in the military because I love my child so much". Meaning, I didn't.

Their comments didn't bother me per se, considering the source, but I saw and knew their children to be first-class, full roaming Class-5 vapor, spoiled brats. Their parents couldn't see it. Everyone else around them saw it, including me. That's what bothered me -- the elitist "on the ground" so-called adult raising dysfunctional offspring.

These offspring often, and at an amazingly early age, express uninhibited loathing of their ostensibly loving parents - who, if they truly loved their children, would give them proper upbringing including behavior parameters.

Children need behavior parameters for a sense of security in the universe.

A good and loving parent cannot always be a friend to one's son or daughter.

28 posted on 05/12/2008 8:14:38 AM PDT by mtntop3
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To: mtntop3
Children need behavior parameters for a sense of security in the universe.

True. Absolutely true.

29 posted on 05/12/2008 12:55:36 PM PDT by Alia
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