Posted on 05/13/2008 10:01:17 PM PDT by BlackVeil
Texas authorities no longer believe that a woman who gave birth to a child in state protective custody is a minor herself.
Lawyers for the Texas Department of Family and Protective Services acknowledged in a hearing in San Angelo on Tuesday that the young woman is legally an adult.
"We received information — credible information — and we now believe this woman who was believed to be a minor in question, is in fact, an adult," said Texas Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner.
However, she will still remain in custody alongside her baby boy, who was born in San Marcos on April 29.
A hearing on the issue has been continued until Friday in San Angelo, Texas.
A spokesman for the FLDS Church said the woman in the case, identified as Pamela Jeffs, is 18.
On Monday, a young woman gave birth to a boy in Austin. Louisa Jessop's husband is challenging the decision to keep them in state custody, and a judge held off on ordering them moved to a new shelter in San Antonio. A hearing is scheduled in an Austin court on Thursday.
In the meantime, the child and his mother remain in foster care.
"The mother and 26 others are in the 'disputed minors' category, which applies to YFZ Ranch residents who CPS believes are minors, or who have provided different ages and other conflicting information to CPS at different times," Texas DFPS said in a statement posted on its Web site.
The FLDS insist that Jessop (whom they say is 22) and other young women are adults. Texas CPS believes they are underage. The government agency said it is reviewing information about the women deemed "disputed minors."
"If CPS determines that any are adults, appropriate action will be taken," the agency said.
So why is she in custody?
This is an update.
Because the state can't be wrong. Didn't you read Orwell?
Difficult to see why. In a separate but similar case, a woman who claims to be 22, but is alleged by the authorities to be 17, has filed a writ of habeas corpus, and there will be a hearing on that. The sooner the better.
The belief of all democrats(and many "republicans" too unfortunately)
Is her name Jeffs or Jessop?
Looking more and more like a fishing expedition...
Oh. Two different births.
How in the world do they know how old these girls/women are? What are the records?
If so, it seems the pond was very well stocked.
Because she doesn't want to be separated from her newborn who is in CPS custody.
WOW you can smell the lawsuit all the way out in California.
Habeas Corpus?
Early on an attorney claimed several of them had Utah and Arizona birth certificates, and other documents from Utah and Arizona that proved who they were and how old they were- but that CPS authorities would not accept them as proof. I am assuming the reason Texas CPS wouldn’t accept them as proof is because they thought the documents belonged to other people or were fakes. All I can figure now is CPS has had time to verify their documents- for some at least.
If so, it seems the pond was very well stocked.
I'm still waiting to see a fish.
Probably for food and shelter. Where else could she go? I am guessing if she really wanted to leave she could.
Should be one soon; it looks like it’s spawning season.
fishing expedition...
“If so, it seems the pond was very well stocked.”
Well...so far they had to throw back a few...
Looks like one for sure.
I’m still wondering how in the heck the determine these girl’s ages.
Hadn’t heard that before. Thanks very much for your reply.
“Looks like one for sure.
I’m still wondering how in the heck the determine these girl’s ages.”
Cut off a limb and count the rings?
“WOW you can smell the lawsuit all the way out in California.”
Just one lawsuit? When the lawyers get done with Texas they had better hope the prise of Texas crude is at least 300 dollars a barrel.
Which raises the question, why an adult woman who was not charged with any crime, who has a child while NOT in a compound, has her newborn held in protective custody.
Under the law, the state has 2 weeks to get the infant a lawyer, and to prove the new mother an opportunity in court to hear the evidence against her, and to offer testimony in opposition to the evidence.
It’s been almost two weeks since the birth. Anybody be surprised if the state just skips this requirement, and claims that the hearing held before the baby was born “counts” — since it would cost too much to have another one?
I see on re-reading that there was a hearing “continued”. I thought that was the hearing on her status as a child, but it’s possible it’s a hearing about her baby. So maybe they will have the hearing.
The baby was born on the 29th, and seized on the 30th. It’s the 13th, so 14 days is tomorrow. Friday isn’t within 14 days, but it’s close — and if she gets her own individual hearing, she’ll be much better off than the “hearing” the other 461 kids got.
Very cogent questions. The legalities, in this case, need to be foregrounded.
I find it mildly encouraging that the CPS has gone back over the records, and is willing to admit they were wrong about the supposed younger ages of at least one of the children.
Although it might be that this girl claimed to be under 18 so she could stay with her child.
If you listen to the government mob around here you would have to come to the conclusion that all of the FLDS mothers and mother to be’s are 12 with husbands over the age of 50 who already have 20 wives. Simply none of the government mob line is altogether true albeit there may have been some criminal behavior in regards to polygamy and underage pregnancies in some instances. No right to seize all kids hastily imo, now inoculate them while in protective custody against their will, and then seize any new children. For some, right here on this website, the government can do and never does any wrong, and if you think differently then you obviously are a child rape supporter... All for the children. And for some it is not just that you support child rape but you may in fact be, shudder, a Mormon - which is an even greater offense to some.
what if she is the mother of other children?
There are no good guys in this scenario.
We have teh FLDS which has members lying about who is whose mother/child/father.
We have the child protective services which has their own history of bad deeds.
You have to wonder why she was lying about her age.
Why do some not see the problem with this? What was her crime? What crime was her child accused of?
“You have to wonder why she was lying about her age.”
One, the FLDS teach their children to lie to authorities.
Two, maybe she doesn’t know how old she is?
I have not even heard the issue discussed.
Does anyone know?
“What was her crime? What crime was her child accused of? “
She is not under arrest. The baby is in protective custody, and the mother has decided to stay with the baby.
Because if you get rid of birthdays, remembering how old you are becomes difficult....
AND, marrying a girl when she starts her first period when even she doesn’t know if she’s 13, 15 or 17 makes it less of a sin /snark.
Jeffs is a major pervert who really put a lot of thought into everything he did to blur lines and get maximum control. Plus, I swear he would be working in a NY BDSM club as a Dom if the whole FLDS stuff hadn’t worked out. He has the rules and the mindset down perfect.
This is just too weird.
Then again she lied about her age by TEN YEARS and was able to get away with it. 26 vs 16?
Heck the woman who started this lied about her age by 17 years.
and she was able to pull it off until it was third party verified!
there is going to be an infomercial in there somewhere...
Does anyone know when all the DNA comes back?
Okay so Pamela Jeffs is 18 and gave birth the 4/29. Does she have other children and who is her (alleged) husband and how old is he?
Louisa Jessop gave birth on Monday(?) has a 4 yr and a 2 yr old, is married to Dan Jessop, claims to be 22 but has not yet provided acceptable documentation to CPS yet.
It’s hard to keep track and the journalists are as clear as mud.
Thanks for your reply.
It sounds to me like the issue is one that raises passions on both sides.
And the discussion has become too often flames and insults rather than courteous disagreement and discussion.
“She was one of two pregnant sect members who state officials had said were minors. The other sect member, who gave birth to a son Monday, also may be an adult, state officials have said.
Both mothers are with their babies, who are in state custody. ...
But FLDS spokesman Rod Parker has accused the state of holding on to pregnant women and treating them as minors to ensure the state could take custody of the newborns, who might otherwise be born outside of Texas. A call to Parker was not immediately returned Tuesday.
There are 27 claims of women being misidentified as girls when they were taken into state custody from the Yearning For Zion Ranch in Eldorado. If evidence is provided proving they are not minors, they will be released, Meisner said.”
"However, she will still remain in custody alongside her baby boy"
“”We received information — credible information — and we now believe this woman who was believed to be a minor in question, is in fact, an adult,” said Texas Child Protective Services spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner. “
Oops there goes the budget. The more children they lose in this hostage taking the less they will receive. Gotta get these numbers up folks. Can’t be losing them like this. Now find me some underaged pregnant girls or I’ll fire you all and get a staff in here who can produce.
“However, she will still remain in custody alongside her baby boy”
(which, no matter how you look at it, is the best place for the mother and child, right now)
When the CPS went in to remove the children from the dangerous environment, the mothers were offered the option of going with the children.
The news articles had the same statement then.
The mothers were remaining in custody alongside their children.
The CPS cannot let the mother return to the compound with the baby, but they can (and likely already have) offer to take her to a ‘safe’ house.
What more do you want the state of Texas to do?
Why don’t we just check the birth certificate?
Whoops....
I like your screenname. It reminds me constantly that we all have a long term memory, right at our fingertips.
I am pouring over newly released lists of evidence taken from the compound and its clear Texas authorities felt they needed to cast a wide net in the investigation of alleged child sexual and physical abuse.
Law enforcement officials converge outside the temple walls at the YFZ Ranch in West Texas.
They took personal letters, journals and photographs — anything that seemed to have a name on it.
They took dozens of computers and hard drives.
They took white clothing belonging to almost 70 men and women. Why clothes? Authorities won’t say.
But they also collected medical records of several women named “Sarah.” This appears to be an attempt to find and identify the still missing 16-year-old wife and mother whose phone call started this massive raid.
Some other items that caught my eye:
- A cyanide poisoning document
- School records
- A photograph of a girl named Sarah
- Social Security and W2 forms
- Correspondence with Warren Jeff
- Fire arms training documents
Thought you’d appreciate some facts as well.
This article concerns the ‘fishing expedition’ comments, and the legality of the evidence found.
Searchers have seized hundreds of boxes of documents and computer records. FLDS attorneys asserted some of that material is protected by attorney-client privilege and some of it is sacred writings that have no importance to law enforcement. The attorneys said agents shouldn’t be allowed to rummage around in that material and go on a treasure hunt.
State attorneys agreed to a compromise. They’re going to appoint a special master to work with the lawyers on sorting through those church records and decide what is protected, what isn’t, which elements of those records would be pertinent to the investigation and what ultimately can be used in court.
Source: http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=3042294
The saga continues and will continue to be confusing:
Reclassification of mother creates new complications in YFZ Ranch case
By Paul A. Anthony (Contact)
Wednesday, May 14, 2008
Attorneys for the state’s Child Protective Services agency said they no longer believe a woman from the YFZ Ranch who gave birth April 29 while in state custody is a juvenile.
“The department has determined she is not a child,” CPS attorney Eric Tai told 51st District Judge Barbara Walther. “She is an adult.”
The revelation, made Tuesday during a San Angelo court hearing, is the first time CPS has reclassified as an adult one of roughly two dozen “minors in question” removed in last month’s raid on the Schleicher County compound of a polygamist sect.
CPS attorneys filed a notice of non-suit for Pamela Jeffs Jessop, the mother of 14-day-old Jonathan Jessop, releasing her from state custody after reaching an agreement with her attorneys.
Jessop had told caseworkers in an interview on April 6 at the YFZ Ranch that she was 18, according to documents seeking custody of her son filed in state district court in Tom Green County after his birth.
“As far as we’re concerned, it’s been indisputable that she’s not a minor,” said Natalie Malonis, a Flower Mound attorney appointed to represent Jessop when she was considered a child.
Walther postponed the scheduled 14-day adversarial hearing until Friday at the request of Malonis and co-counsel Andrea Sloan, who said their client had not been served with notice of the hearing until Monday morning.
Jessop, who appeared in court in a pale blue traditional floor-length dress of the type worn by women in the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, also has a 2-year-old boy, according to the court documents. Based on the birthdates she provided to CPS investigators, she was 15 at the time she and her husband, Jackson Jessop, conceived the older boy.
CPS had about 26 young women in custody who say they are adults but whom the agency considers minors. Jessop was one of those, but the agency has not filed any additional non-suit notices, Tom Green County court clerks said Tuesday, leaving the number at 25.
“If we possess credible evidence that other minors in question are over 18,” then CPS will release them, as well, said spokeswoman Marleigh Meisner, declining to discuss what specific evidence led CPS to reverse course in Jessop’s case. “We are still in the midst of an investigation. We cannot just dismiss them without credible evidence.”
Jessop’s new status threw a twist into Tuesday’s proceedings, as Walther told Malonis and Sloan - both representing other children in the case - that they could not represent mothers and children in the same case without having a conflict of interest, even if the clients are not related.
The attorneys have until after Friday’s hearing to tell Walther which clients they will keep and who will need new attorneys appointed.
CPS’ decision drops the number of potential children in state custody back to 464. The number rose briefly with the birth Monday of a boy in Austin whose mother’s age also is in dispute.
Walther on Tuesday afternoon granted CPS’ request to take that boy, identified as Richard Daniel Jessop in court documents, into temporary custody and set an initial hearing in his case for May 23. The documents list the mother, identified as Louisa Bradshaw Jessop, as “15 or 16” and say she gave investigators conflicting birthdates when interviewed at the ranch.
An FLDS spokesman has said that mother is 22.
Meanwhile, attorneys for another set of parents, Joseph and Lori Jessop, have filed emergency requests in district court in San Antonio to prevent CPS from removing their 11-month-old son, Joseph Jessop Jr., from his mother’s care when he turns 1 on Friday.
Meisner said she does not know whether CPS plans to remove the child, but according to a petition filed Tuesday, a social worker told Lori Jessop the agency planned to do so after his first birthday.
The court action across the state comes as attorneys prepare for hundreds of mandated status hearings that will occupy the Tom Green County Courthouse for nearly three weeks, beginning Monday.
Lists and settings in the cases remain in flux as caseworkers and attorneys scramble to confirm identities and ages - with Tuesday’s decision to release Pamela Jessop adding still another wrinkle.
“It is a problem,” Malonis said, “and it’s going to be a problem for other (incorrectly identified) minors in custody.”
“You have to wonder why she was lying about her age.”
Do you have a source that this girl lied, when asked her name or age? Her lawyer, yesterday, said that she had presented CPS with both a DL and BC.
Somebody is lying, anyway.
“Jessop had told caseworkers in an interview on April 6 at the YFZ Ranch that she was 18, according to documents seeking custody of her son filed in state district court in Tom Green County after his birth.”
From the article above.
It doesn’t seem that she lied at all.
Thanks.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.