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Noted attorney takes bison case
Rocky Mountain News ^ | May 14, 2008

Posted on 05/15/2008 8:47:48 AM PDT by george76

The man accused in the deaths of 32 bison who strayed off his Park County neighbor's property has hired a prominent Denver defense attorney.

Pamela Mackey is representing Jeffery Scott Hawn, of Austin, Texas, who was charged last week with theft, criminal mischief and cruelty to animals.

Mackey previously represented ... Kobe Bryant...

(Excerpt) Read more at rockymountainnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; News/Current Events; US: Colorado; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: bison; crueltytoanimals; jefferyhawn; jeffreyscotthawn; scotthawn
Now hopefully we won't have a gutless DA that will cave in to a ridiculous plea bargain just because of the attoneys reputation...

ht comments

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1 posted on 05/15/2008 8:47:50 AM PDT by george76
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To: george76

We had bison burgers on the grill last weekend...man were they good.


2 posted on 05/15/2008 8:49:18 AM PDT by Slapshot68
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To: jazusamo; girlangler; XeniaSt; rellimpank; moondoggie; MtnClimber; familyop; NVDave; SunkenCiv

She’s going to use the same defense that she used in Kobe’s case: the bison asked for it.

Additionally, they were dressed provocatively ...

ht comments


3 posted on 05/15/2008 8:50:57 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76

Hopefully, the ba$tard will get some heavy fines and imprisonment.


4 posted on 05/15/2008 8:56:11 AM PDT by JEC ((Pray for ALL our troops))
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To: george76

I am interested in his connection to the reconquista group members that he hired to help do the killing. Any word on this?


5 posted on 05/15/2008 8:58:33 AM PDT by MtnClimber (Obama pledges to give every typical small town white family a possum sandwich)
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To: george76

I suppose he thinks he can buffalo a jury...


6 posted on 05/15/2008 9:06:02 AM PDT by LachlanMinnesota (Si vis pacem, para bellum)
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To: JEC

Not knowing much about the case, it may not be the first time this “neighbor’s” herd were running free on this dude’s ranch plus bison can be pretty mean to other livestock and people.
My second question, is Hanoi Jane’s EX the “neighbor”?


7 posted on 05/15/2008 9:09:44 AM PDT by dusttoyou (FRED 08, heard it here first)
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To: george76
Now me, I want to live where Bison roamed across my property.

Even if they were someone else's, as long as they didn't block my car. I wouldn't even mind Bison flop.

8 posted on 05/15/2008 9:11:33 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: MtnClimber
Warrant issued in deaths of 32 bison
A landowner whose letter, according to officials, urged hunters to "get started" is wanted in the killings.
By Howard Pankratz
The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 05/09/2008 01:55:23 AM MDT

Authorities charged Thursday that an Austin, Texas, businessman, frustrated because a neighbor's bison were wandering onto his land near Hartsel, first threatened and then organized a hunt that led to 32 bison deaths.

According to an arrest warrant, Jeffrey Scott Hawn wrote a letter to the hunters — members of the Aztlan Native Community of Gardner — on Feb. 25 telling them that he wanted them to "get started as quickly as possible."

"You may hunt or remove them or you may remove them live and take them to the location of your choice," Hawn wrote.

The 32 bison found dead in March belonged to longtime South Park rancher Monte Downare. Hawn owns a ranch near, but not adjacent to, the Downare ranch, according to officials.

The warrant said Hawn is wanted on one count of felony theft, one count of felony criminal mischief and 32 counts of aggravated cruelty to animals, a Class 6 felony.

Monte Gore, undersheriff for Park County, said charges might be filed against other individuals.

"We are leaving those options open," he said.

Gore said arrangements are being made for Hawn to turn himself in.

According to the warrant affidavit, three bison were killed on Hawn's ranch; eight on Bureau of Land Management property; four on U.S. Forest Service property; 14 on the property belonging to Catherine L. Primm; and three on the property of Robert Lemm.

Officials claim that Hawn himself was involved in killing some of the animals.

Antonino Salcedo of the Aztlan Native Community, who received the Feb. 25 letter, said that Hawn told him that he had killed two bison prior to Salcedo's arrival at the property.

Salcedo said that when he and his group arrived, they saw nine "wasted carcasses," which no one took responsibility for shooting.

Several witnesses said they saw Hawn on his property with a 30.06 rifle during the last week of February and first week of March.

Officers said that during a search of Hawn's house in South Park, they recovered a 30.06 rifle, seized empty 30.06 ammunition boxes, full boxes of 30.06 ammunition and a box with four cartridges missing.

The bison were shot after Hawn and his Denver attorney, Stephen E. Csajaghy, complained about Downare's bison damaging Hawn's property.

In a letter dated Jan. 28, Csajaghy told Downare that over the previous six weeks, there had been more than 1,000 head of Downare's bison on Hawn's property. Csajaghy said he had photographic proof that "your buffalo" had broken through gates and trespassed on more than 20 occasions over the previous two months.

And in the letter, Csajaghy threatened to kill the bison.

". . . We are considering alternate remedies, such as allowing a hunt of any buffalo that come onto Mr. Hawn's property," Csajaghy wrote. "However, we would certainly prefer to resolve this problem amicably without having to resort to such action."

Howard Pankratz: 303-954-1939 or hpankratz@denverpost.com

9 posted on 05/15/2008 9:17:16 AM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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To: george76

:’)


10 posted on 05/15/2008 9:26:16 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______________________Profile updated Monday, April 28, 2008)
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To: george76

This turkey needs to be slapped down hard for this. With Pamela Mackey representing him he might get off but then maybe not too.

If he does walk it will have still cost him a bundle, Pam doesn’t work cheap.


11 posted on 05/15/2008 9:27:17 AM PDT by jazusamo (DefendOurMarines.org | DefendOurTroops.org)
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To: george76
Wait, let me get this straight . . .

1. The defendant finds that his neighbor's bison are breaking down a gate/fence and entering his property - repeatedly (20 times?).

2. The neighbor doesn't ensure his bison do not continue to destroy/invade the defendant's property even after being warned ("considering alternate remedies, such as allowing a hunt of any buffalo that come onto Mr. Hawn's property").

3. The defendant organizes a hunt of the invading buffalo. Some are killed, some are taken.

4. Now the defendant is being prosecuted for multiple felonies.

Maybe I'm missing something huge here but . . .what exactly is illegal about shooting bison and taking that which is repeatedly deposited on your property (like a gift)?

I know that most states require owners of livestock to control them at all times. I personally knew a man in Arkansas who hit a horse with his car (on a farm road) and the horse owner was responsible for all damages. Though the horse died, the driver wasn't at fault for killing the horse. Is that so different than this case?

12 posted on 05/15/2008 9:34:34 AM PDT by DesertSapper (God, Family, Country . . . . . . . . . . and dead terrorists!!!)
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To: george76

Where is the outrage toward the owner of the bison that didn’t take any measures to keep the bison confined and away from danger? What about the rights of the property owner to protect his property from idiots that don’t take care of their animals? If 32 of my animals were out I would surely know it and be doing something about it to fix the problem immediately. Why didn’t the local authorities look after the rights of the land owner being violated by the animal owner that was too irresponsible to keep his animals confined to his property?


13 posted on 05/15/2008 9:38:33 AM PDT by vetvetdoug
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To: DesertSapper
Sounds like what I should do is gather up a herd of cattle, take them to Colorado to fatten on some one else's land, then reluctantly and belatedly remove them to take them to the slaughter house. Let the land owner pay for the grass consumed and fencing damage, after all, they are “my cattle” and his property rights do not count.
14 posted on 05/15/2008 9:39:41 AM PDT by LOC1
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To: george76

“Home, home on the range, where the deer and the b......d,,d.,m,./.————————————


15 posted on 05/15/2008 9:41:30 AM PDT by BlueStateBlues (Blue State for business, Red State at heart..)
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To: DesertSapper
Colorado law is open range.

This means if you don't want livestock on your land, you must build fences to keep the out.


16 posted on 05/15/2008 9:47:26 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: DesertSapper
Maybe I'm missing something huge here but . . .what exactly is illegal about shooting bison and taking that which is repeatedly deposited on your property (like a gift)?

I'm not a lawyer but it is probably in there somewhere in the section that makes it illegal for me to shoot your dog if he takes a dump on my property.

The proper way to handle it is to call authorities to deal with the animals and the owner and have your recourse through the legal system for the damages your property suffered.

17 posted on 05/15/2008 9:49:34 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: XeniaSt
Interesting. It's just the opposite in most states.

carolyn

18 posted on 05/15/2008 9:54:10 AM PDT by CDHart ("It's too late to work within the system and too early to shoot the b@#$%^&s."--Claire Wolfe)
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To: DesertSapper
Read this Open Range & Fencing in Colorado.

19 posted on 05/15/2008 9:56:23 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: MtnClimber

Nothing lately.

I will search some more. Please let me know if you find anything.


20 posted on 05/15/2008 10:03:53 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: CDHart
Some concerns :

The adult bison weighs between 800 and 2000 pounds.
(An adult bull can weigh up to 2000 pounds and can stand 6.5 feet tall.
An adult cow can weigh more than 1000 pounds and is only a little shorter than a bull.


21 posted on 05/15/2008 10:06:08 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: DesertSapper

Hawn had several options.

He bought a ranch next to other ranches, then got mad at traditional ranching practices and historical laws.

He should have stayed in Austin if he did not like rural living.

That said, Hawn had several options. Shooting another person’s livestock on BLM land and shooting livestock on other private land belonging to others ...are not on the list of his options.

Hawn had civil options if the neighbor did not repair broken fences, etc. Ranchers historically recover escaped livestock and repair any other damages.


22 posted on 05/15/2008 10:18:50 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Polybius; XeniaSt
I'm not a lawyer either but I do know there is a HUGE difference between pets (dogs) and livestock (bison).

They are not treated the same under the law . . . you can raise, kill, and sell bison for food. It is not currently legal to do so with dogs.

I can also have a dog as a pet in most (if not all) cities in the USA and that is not the case for owning a bison.

To lump the dogs and bison together in this scenario doesn't fit in any way. Though I will admit that if 2,000 dogs showed up on my land, I'd be blasting away with all my guns as that "herd" would be far more dangerous!

After reading about Colorado's "open range" rules, I'm glad I don't live there! I believe your property (livestock) is your reponsibility to control - not someone else's to try to control. Let's hope CO doesn't eventually allow elephants or rhinos to be raised in herds. haha

I guess the defendent in this case will lose but he'd have a better chance if I was on the jury.

23 posted on 05/15/2008 10:19:29 AM PDT by DesertSapper (God, Family, Country . . . . . . . . . . and dead terrorists!!!)
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To: george76

Here is something on the group. It sounds like it may be Mexican native ancestry trying to claim rights as Native Americans. Note this statement: “All five-fingered people who are spiritually inclined and especially Xicano immigrants are invited”. I will research “Xicano”, but I suspect it is the same as Chicano.

Here is a link to some festival they are having:

http://www.turtletribe.org/Aztlan%20sundance.htm

“5th annual sundance July 9-16

at the Assembling of Aztlan

Purification & camp days - July 9-12

Tree Day - July 12, 1 p.m.

Sundance - July 13-16

All five-fingered people who are spiritually inclined and especially Xicano immigrants are invited to attend the 5th annual wiwanyag wacipi (Sundance) hosted by Iglesia de Aztlan (the assembling of Aztlan) at the base of Greenhorn Mountain near Gardner, Colorado.

The Sundance is one of the most sacred ceremonies held in Native country. Banned by the U.S. Government in 1893, it has survived underground and is today observed by many Native nations throughout Turtle Island.

It is a time of purification, prayer, healing and building family and community relationships.

First-time attendees are asked to call the Aztlan Native American Cultural Arts Center before coming.

Strict rules apply for those who attend the arbor celebrations.

1. Women must bring a shawl and wear a dress.

2. No jewelry is allowed.

3. Women on their moon may not attend the arbor ceremonies.

4. Men must wear pants and a shirt. Shorts are not allowed.

5. No metal of any kind is allowed under the arbor.”


24 posted on 05/15/2008 10:24:15 AM PDT by MtnClimber (Obama pledges to give every typical small town white family a possum sandwich)
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To: george76

Something I found searching on “Xicano”:

http://xicano.wordpress.com/2007/01/08/revolutionary-ideals-strategics-must-evolve/

“Revolutionary ideals & strategics must evolve

Since we as a people are so dense in population and thus diverse, it is hard to project a message that all of our people will understand and agree with. There are so many aspects to Chicanismo & Mexicanismo, that a message will be hard to reach all of us. There needs to be a common demoninator that all of our people can agree with and really understand. Sometimes there is nothing wrong with the solutions and for the most part they are there, but if you have a good message and only a minority of the people understand and believe in it, then there’s a problem with the messenger or the way the message is conveyed.

The problem with most of the messengers is that they engage in intellectual masturbation and talk about the system from a bird’s eye view. They point fingers and say capitalism is the problem or some other system that habors corruption and exploitation, then provide theories on how to fix the system or even overthrow it. Most of these people are college educated and otherwise intellectuals that use terminology that only their peers understand. Not all of the people will understand the message, only the intellectuals will. I’m not proposing that we dumb down our messages, but provide them in a way that everyone can understand without dozing off.

We also have to accept that protests, marches, boycotts don’t work as they used to anymore. They might be helpful in the way to bring attention to a problem or a plight, but that’s the maximum potency such physical activism delivers. We should not expect to see changes from these things, we need to conserve our energy and money into more strategic moves. “


25 posted on 05/15/2008 10:36:28 AM PDT by MtnClimber (Obama pledges to give every typical small town white family a possum sandwich)
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To: XeniaSt
Good info. Thanks.

I found something interesting on that site - CO ranchers have to submit a request to raise "alternative livestock" and that request must include a drawing that includes the "location of the perimeter fence". Bison are not listed as "alternative livestock" but fallow dear and elk are.

A further search shows that camel, yak, emu, and even reindeer are also 'domestic' animals - not 'alternative'. Hmmm . . . that stupid camel I 'rode' in Kuwait sure didn't ACT domesticated.

26 posted on 05/15/2008 10:40:32 AM PDT by DesertSapper (God, Family, Country . . . . . . . . . . and dead terrorists!!!)
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To: DesertSapper
I guess the defendent in this case will lose but he'd have a better chance if I was on the jury.

Sorry, but I live in the 11th Judicial District.
I might be on the jury.

Hawn had a lawyer and must have been advised of the Law.

He choose to ignore the Law to act like a "carpet-bagger"
snot nosed city slicker from Austin Texas.

Everyone here in Colorado knows that South Park is open rangeland.


27 posted on 05/15/2008 10:45:27 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: XeniaSt

You’re exactly right.

Fortunately for me, the buffalo ranchs near me want to keep their animals IN, and fence accordingly.

I hope that doesn’t change, because I don’t want to have to build big fences.


28 posted on 05/15/2008 10:51:06 AM PDT by Balding_Eagle (OVERPRODUCTION......... one of the top five worries for American farmers.)
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To: DesertSapper
I'm not a lawyer either but I do know there is a HUGE difference between pets (dogs) and livestock (bison).

Depends on whose ox is being gored and where you live.

To some, sheep are more like pets than they are livestock and dogs are more like varmints than they are pets.

Last night Local News Eight covered a story about an Idaho Falls family who is heart broken after their neighbor and cattle owner legally shot their dog to death for coming on his property.......... "They're more like pets than they are livestock, but it's really hard and it's really disheartening when the sheep get killed."

Your legal mileage may vary in your neck of the woods.

29 posted on 05/15/2008 11:14:45 AM PDT by Polybius
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To: XeniaSt

I own land in both El Paso and Park county Colorado. El Paso county, where Colorado Springs rubs up against the eastern pplains, lays it out pretty well for people on their web site with a description of “the Code of the West” See item 5.7 for what this Texas bozo should have realized. P.S. - I hope the judge maxes him out...Code of the West

Based on a code by John Clarke
former Larimer County Commissioner

The Code of the West was first chronicled by the famous western writer, Zane Grey. The men and women who came to this part of the country during the westward expansion of the United States were bound by an unwritten code of conduct. The values of integrity and self reliance guided their decisions, actions and interactions. In keeping with that spirit, we offer this information to help the citizens of El Paso County who wish to follow in the footsteps of those rugged individualists by living outside city limits.
Introduction

It is important for you to know that life in the country is different from life in the city. County governments are not able to provide the same level of service that city governments provide. To that end, we are providing you with the following information to help you make an educated and informed decision to purchase rural land.
Access

The fact that you can drive to your property does not necessarily guarantee that you, your guests and emergency service vehicles can achieve that same level of access at all times. Please consider:

1.1 - Emergency response times (sheriff, fire suppression, medical care, etc.) cannot be guaranteed. Under some extreme conditions, you may find that emergency response is extremely slow and expensive.

1.2 - There can be problems with the legal aspects of access, especially if you gain access across property belonging to others. It is wise to obtain legal advice and understand the easements that may be necessary when these types of questions arise.

1.3 - You can experience problems with the maintenance and cost of maintenance of your road. El Paso County maintains nearly 2,000 miles of roads, but many rural properties are served by private and public roads which are maintained by private road associations. There are even some county roads that are not maintained by the county - no grading or snow plowing. There are even some public roads that are not maintained by anyone! Make sure you know what type of maintenance to expect and who will provide that maintenance.

1.4 - Extreme weather conditions can destroy roads. It is wise to determine whether or not your road was properly engineered and constructed.

1.5 - Many large construction vehicles cannot navigate small, narrow roads. If you plan to build, it is prudent to check out construction access.

1.6 - School buses travel only on maintained county roads that have been designated as school bus routes by the school district. You may need to drive your children to the nearest county road so they can get to school.

1.7 - In extreme weather, even county maintained roads can become impassable. You may need a four wheel drive vehicle with chains for all four wheels to travel during those episodes, which could last for several days.

1.8 - Natural disasters, especially floods, can destroy roads. El Paso County will repair and maintain county roads; however, subdivision roads are the responsibility of the landowners who use those roads. A dry creek bed can become a raging torrent and wash out roads, bridges, and culverts. Residents served by private roads and/or bridges have been hit with large bills for repairs and/or reconstruction after floods.

1.9 - Unpaved roads generate dust. When traffic levels reach specific levels, El Paso County treats county system roads to suppress the dust, but dust is still a fact of life for most rural residents.

1.10 - If your road is unpaved, it is highly unlikely that El Paso County will pave it in the foreseeable future. Check carefully with the County Department of Transportation when any statement is made by the seller of any property that indicates any unpaved roads will be paved!

1.11 - Unpaved roads are not always smooth and are often slippery when they are wet. You will experience an increase in vehicle maintenance costs when you regularly travel on rural county roads.

1.12 - Mail delivery is not available to all areas of the county. Ask the postmaster to describe the system for your area.

1.13 - Newspaper delivery is similarly not always available to rural areas. Check with the newspaper of your choice before assuming you can get delivery.

1.14 - Standard parcel and overnight package delivery can be a problem for those who live in the country. Confirm with the service providers as to your status.

1.15 - It may be more expensive and time consuming to build a rural residence due to delivery fees and the time required for inspectors to reach your site.

1.16 – Because access to your property may be blocked by weather and other factors for extended periods, you should always have on hand adequate food, medicine, and other supplies and be prepared for road closures or other access blockages.

Utility services

Water, sewer, electric, telephone and other services may be unavailable or may not operate at urban standards. Repairs can often take much longer than in towns and cities. Please review your options from the non-exhaustive list below.

2.1 - Telephone communications can be a problem, especially in the mountain areas of El Paso County. From time to time, the only phone service available has been a party line. If you have a private line, it may be difficult to obtain another line for fax or computer modem uses. Even cellular phones will not work in all areas.

2.2 - If sewer service is available to your property, it may be expensive to hook into the system. It also may be expensive to maintain the system you use.

2.3 - If sewer service is not available, you will need to use an approved septic system or other treatment process. The type of soil you have available for a leach field will be very important in determining the cost and function of your system. Have the system checked by a reliable sanitation firm and ask for assistance from the El Paso County Department of Health and Environment.

2.4 - If you have access to a supply of treated domestic water, the tap fees can be expensive. You may also find that your monthly cost of service can be costly when compared to municipal systems.

2.5 - If you do not have access to a supply of treated domestic water, you will have to locate an alternative supply. The most common method is use of a well. Permits for wells are granted by the state engineer and the cost for drilling and pumping can be considerable. The quality and quantity of well water can vary considerably from location to location and from season to season. The water level in a well may change over time, necessitating drilling a deeper or replacement well. It is strongly advised that you research this issue very carefully.

2.6 - Not all wells can be used for watering of landscaping and/or livestock. Permits from the state engineer may restrict water to use to that which is used inside of a home. If you have other needs, make certain that you have the proper approvals before you invest. It may also be difficult to find enough water to provide for your needs even if you can secure the proper permit.

2.7 - Electric service is not available to every area of El Paso County. It is important to determine the proximity of electrical power. It can be very expensive to extend power lines to remote areas.

2.8 - It may be necessary to cross property owned by others in order to extend electric service to your property in the most cost efficient manner. It is important to make sure that the proper easements are in place to allow lines to be built to your property.

2.9 - Electric power may not be available in two phase and three phase service configurations. If you have special power requirements, it is important to know what level of service can be provided to your property.

2.10 - If you are purchasing land with the plan to build at a future date, there is a possibility that electric lines (and other utilities) may not be large enough to accommodate you if others connect during the time you wait to build.

2.11 - The cost of electric service is usually divided into a fee to hook into the system and then a monthly charge for energy consumed. It is important to know both costs before making a decision to purchase a specific piece of property.

2.12 - Power outages can occur in outlying areas with more frequency than in more developed areas. A loss of electric power can also interrupt your supply of water from a well. You may also lose food in freezers or refrigerators and power outages can cause problems with computers as well. It is important to be able to survive for up to a week in severe cold with no utilities if you live in the country.

2.13 - Trash removal can be much more expensive in a rural area than in a city. In some cases, your trash dumpster may be several miles from your home. It is illegal to create your own trash dump, even on your own land. It is good to know the cost for trash removal as you make the decision to move into the country. In some cases, your only option may be to haul your trash to the landfill yourself. Recycling is more difficult because pick-up is not available in most rural areas.

The property

There are many issues that can affect your property. It is important to research these items before purchasing land.

3.1 - Not all lots are buildable. The El Paso County Assessor has many parcels that are separate for the purpose of taxation that are not legal lots in the sense that a building permit will not be issued. You must check with the El Paso County Planning Department to know that a piece of land can be built on.

3.2 - Easements may require you to allow construction of roads, power lines, water lines, sewer lines, etc. across your land. There may be easements that are not of record. Check these issues carefully.

3.3 - Many property owners do not own the mineral rights under their property. Owners of mineral rights have the ability to change the surface characteristics in order to extract their minerals. It is very important to know what minerals may be located under the land and who owns them. Much of the rural land in El Paso County can be used for mining; however a special review by the county commissioners is usually required. Be aware that adjacent mining uses can expand and cause negative impacts.

3.4 - You may be provided with a plat of your property, but unless the land has been surveyed and pins placed by a licensed surveyor, you cannot assume that the plat is accurate.

3.5 - Fences that separate properties are often misaligned with the property lines. A survey of the land is the only way to confirm the location of your property lines.

3.6 - Many subdivisions and planned unit developments have covenants that limit the use of the property. It is important to obtain a copy of the covenants (or confirm that there are none) and make sure that you can live with those rules. Also, a lack of covenants can cause problems between neighbors.

3.7 - Homeowners associations (HOAs) are required to take care of common elements, roads, open space, etc. A dysfunctional homeowners association or poor covenants can cause problems for you and even involve you in expensive litigation.

3.8 - Dues are almost always a requirement for those areas with a HOA. The by-laws of the HOA will tell you how the organization operates and how the dues are set.

3.9 - The surrounding properties will probably not remain as they are indefinitely. You can check with the El Paso County Planning Department to find out how the properties are zoned and to see what future developments may be in the planning stages. The view from your property may change.

3.10 - If you have a ditch running across your property there is a good possibility that the owners of the ditch have the right to come onto your property with heavy equipment to maintain the ditch.

3.11 - Water rights that are sold with the property may not give you the right to use the water from any ditches crossing your land without coordinating with a neighbor who also uses the water. Other users may have senior rights to the water that can limit your use or require you to pay for the over-sizing or other improving of the ditch.

3.12 - It is important to make sure that any water rights you purchase with the land will provide enough water to maintain fruit trees, pastures, gardens or livestock.

3.13 - The water flowing in irrigation ditches belongs to someone. You cannot assume that because the water flows across your property, you can use it.

3.14 - Flowing water can be a hazard, especially to young children. Before you decide to locate your home near an active ditch, consider the possible danger to your family.

Mother Nature

Residents of the country usually experience more problems when the elements and earth turn unfriendly. Here are some thoughts for you to consider.

4.1 - The physical characteristics of your property can be positive and negative. Trees are a wonderful environmental amenity, but can also involve your home in a forest fire. Building at the top of a forested draw should be considered as dangerous as building in a flash flood area. Defensible perimeters are very helpful in protecting buildings from forest fire and inversely can protect the forest from igniting if your house catches on fire. If you start a forest fire, you are responsible for paying for the cost of extinguishing that fire. For further information, you can contact the El Paso County Emergency Services Department.

4.2 - Steep slopes can slide in unusually wet weather. Large rocks can also roll down steep slopes and present a great danger to people and property.

4.3 - Expansive soils, such as Bentonite Clay (which is common in the foothills) can buckle concrete foundations and twist steel I-beams. You can know the soil conditions on your property if you have a soil test performed.

4.4 - North facing slopes or canyons rarely see direct sunlight in the winter. There is a possibility that snow will accumulate and not melt throughout the winter.

4.5 - The topography of the land can tell you where the water will go in the case of heavy precipitation. When property owners fill in ravines, they have found that the water that drained through that ravine now drains through their house.

4.6 - A flash flood can occur, especially during the summer months, and turn a dry gully into a river. It is wise to take this possibility into consideration when building.

4.7 - Spring run-off can cause a very small creek to become a major river. Many residents use sand bags to protect their homes. The county does not provide sand bags, equipment or people to protect private property from flooding.

4.8 - Nature can provide you with some wonderful neighbors. Most, such as deer and eagles are positive additions to the environment. However, even “harmless” animals like deer can cross the road unexpectedly and cause traffic accidents. Rural development encroaches on the traditional habitat of coyotes, bobcats, mountain lions, rattlesnakes, prairie dogs, bears, mosquitoes and other animals that can be dangerous and you need to know how to deal with them. In general, it is best to enjoy wildlife from a distance and know that if you do not handle your pets and trash properly, it could cause problems for you and the wildlife. The Colorado Department of Wildlife and the El Paso County Department of Health and Environment are two good resources for information. They have many free publications to help educate you about living in the wild.

Agriculture

The people who tamed this wild land brought water to the barren, arid east slope of the Rockies through an ingenious system of water diversion. This water has allowed agriculture to become an important part of our environment. Owning rural land means knowing how to care for it. There are a few things you need to know:

5.1 - Farmers often work around the clock, especially during planting and harvest time. Dairy operators sometimes milk without stopping and hay is often swathed or baled at night. It is possible that adjoining agriculture uses can disturb your peace and quiet.

5.2 - Land preparation and other operations can cause dust, especially during windy and dry weather.

5.3 - Farmers occasionally burn their ditches to keep them clean of debris, weeds and other obstructions. This burning creates smoke that you may find objectionable.

5.4 - Chemicals (mainly fertilizers and herbicides) are often used in growing crops. You may be sensitive to these substances and many people actually have severe allergic reactions. Many of these chemicals are applied by airplanes that fly early in the morning.

5.5 - Animals and their manure can cause objectionable odors. What else can we say?

5.6 - Agriculture is an important business in El Paso County. If you choose to live among the farms and ranches of our rural countryside, do not expect county government to intervene in the normal day-to-day operations of your agri-business neighbors. In fact, Colorado has “Right to Farm” legislation that protects farmers and ranchers from nuisance and liability lawsuits. It enables them to continue producing food and fiber.

5.7 - Colorado has an open range law. This means if you do not want cattle, sheep or other livestock on your property, it is your responsibility to fence them out. It is not the responsibility of the rancher to keep his/her livestock off your property.

5.8 - Before buying land you should know if it has noxious weeds that may be expensive to control and you may be required to control. Some plants are poisonous to horses and other livestock.

5.9 - Animals can be dangerous. Bulls, stallions, rams, boars, etc. can attack human beings. Children need to know that it is not safe to enter pens where animals are kept.

5.10 - Much of El Paso County receives less than 15 inches (38 cm) of precipitation per year. As a result, we have a problem with overgrazing, and fugitive dust. Without irrigation, grass does not grow very well. There is a limit to the amount of grazing the land can handle. The Colorado State University Cooperative Extension can help you with these issues.

In conclusion

Even though you pay property taxes to the county, the amount of tax collected does not cover the cost of the services provided to rural residents. In general, those living in the cities and commercial and industrial properties subsidize the lifestyle of those who live in the country by making up the shortfall between the cost of services and the revenues received from rural dwellers.

This information is by no means exhaustive. There are other issues that you may encounter that we have overlooked and we encourage you to be vigilant in your duties to explore and examine those things that could cause your move to be less than you expect.
We have offered these comments in the sincere hope that it can help you enjoy your decision to reside in the country. It is not our intent to dissuade you, only inform you.


30 posted on 05/15/2008 11:19:28 AM PDT by redlegplanner
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To: vetvetdoug
5.7 - Colorado has an open range law. This means if you do not want cattle, sheep or other livestock on your property, it is your responsibility to fence them out. It is not the responsibility of the rancher to keep his/her livestock off your property.
31 posted on 05/15/2008 11:54:09 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: redlegplanner

Great information !

Hawn at first, hired a dufus lawyer.

Now he is lawyered up.

I believe that the best he can hope for is to plea bargain
and not go to jail and then sell his property and go back
to the liberal sanctuary cities like Austin Texas or
Seattle, Washington where they tolerate the criminal
activities of Aztlan and MEChA.


32 posted on 05/15/2008 11:56:55 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: dusttoyou
Not knowing much about the case, it may not be the first time this “neighbor’s” herd were running free on this dude’s ranch plus bison can be pretty mean to other livestock and people

Colorado law says that the guy had no right to kill the buffalo.

33 posted on 05/15/2008 12:02:33 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: DesertSapper
After reading about Colorado's "open range" rules, I'm glad I don't live there!

You and us both....

For one thing, some of us in Colorado still think that laws have fixed meaning, and that if you don't like the law, you change the law.

We Coloradans don't believe that a person gets to decide which laws he will and will not follow.

34 posted on 05/15/2008 12:06:03 PM PDT by r9etb
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To: redlegplanner

Hawn’s new lawyer will also have to justify shooting buffalo on BLM land plus shooting on private land that Hawn did not own.


35 posted on 05/15/2008 4:07:27 PM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: dusttoyou
My second question, is Hanoi Jane’s EX the “neighbor”?

I forget his name, they should have shot that SOB just on principal alone.

36 posted on 05/15/2008 5:10:32 PM PDT by JEC ((Pray for ALL our troops))
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