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Hawn turns self in on bison slaying charges ( Atzlan Native Community mentioned )
The Park County Republican & Fairplay Flume ^ | 5/15/2008 | Mike Potter

Posted on 05/16/2008 6:15:16 AM PDT by george76

Texas businessman Jeff Hawn was charged May 8 in the March slaying of 32 bison near Hartsel and faces one count of class 3 felony theft, one count of class 3 felony criminal mischief and 32 counts of aggravated cruelty to animals, each a class 6 felony.

Hawn turned himself in to the Park County Jail on May 12 and bonded out...

Kobe Bryant's attorney

The arrest warrant affidavit indicates that the bison had been killed over the course of a number of weeks.

For instance, it states that on April 1 officers "retrieved a spent bullet from one of the wasted bison carcasses that had been shot weeks prior to the first contact with hunters at the Hawn property."

The Colorado Bureau of Investigation also matched a bullet cartridge case found on Forest Service land near the scene of dead bison to a 30.06 rifle found in Hawn's home.

In a Feb. 25 letter addressed to Antonino Salcedo, Hawn gave permission to Salcedo and his "Atzlan Native Community" colleagues, based in Gardner, Colo., to "remove the buffalo from my ranch."

(Excerpt) Read more at theflume.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Extended News; News/Current Events; US: Colorado; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: ar; atzlan; austin; aztlan; banglist; bison; corruption; crueltytoanimals; downare; hawn; hunting; jefferyhawn; jeffhawn; jeffreyscotthawn; montedownare; propertyrights; scotthawn; vaughndownare; wateredge
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Atzlan Native Community...?

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1 posted on 05/16/2008 6:15:16 AM PDT by george76
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To: george76

someone should have kept the Buffler offin his land. Sounds like he was just protecting his interests on his land.


2 posted on 05/16/2008 6:20:01 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: george76
--sure does put this incident in a different light than anything I've seen in the Denver Pest or Rocky Mountain News--
3 posted on 05/16/2008 6:22:23 AM PDT by rellimpank (--don't believe anything the MSM tells you about firearms or explosives--NRA Benefactor)
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To: Vaquero

Probably just providing meat for the railroad that they’re trying to build. Wait, that was Buffalo Bill.


4 posted on 05/16/2008 6:23:49 AM PDT by NavVet ( If you don't defend Conservatism in the Primaries, you won't have it to defend in November)
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To: Vaquero; XeniaSt; jazusamo

Colorado is a “fence out” state, meaning property owners are charged with the task of fencing their property to keep livestock out.

The rancher isn’t required to fence his or her livestock in.


5 posted on 05/16/2008 6:27:39 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Vaquero
someone should have kept the Buffler offin his land

Absolutely, & damn right someone should have!

In Colorado, the law clearly spells out that it was his responsibility to keep the bison off of his land; not someone elses to keep them on their land.

This POS was way out of line shooting them down.

6 posted on 05/16/2008 6:27:46 AM PDT by laotzu
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To: laotzu

All the same, law or no law, if I owned valuable livestock, I’d be doing everything I could to keep them on my property.


7 posted on 05/16/2008 6:30:01 AM PDT by knittnmom (...surrounded by reality!)
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To: laotzu

oh...never heard of that. Free range I suppose. I guess I have been living back east all my life where if you want to keep it, you fence it in.


8 posted on 05/16/2008 6:30:49 AM PDT by Vaquero (" an armed society is a polite society" Heinlein "MOLON LABE!" Leonidas of Sparta)
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To: george76; girlangler

ping to follow up on buffalo killing creep.


9 posted on 05/16/2008 6:32:10 AM PDT by Grammy
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To: 80 Square Miles

To “fence in” buffalo, you’d need more than traditional stock fence...


10 posted on 05/16/2008 6:34:04 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: redlegplanner; MtnClimber; r9etb; rellimpank; beaversmom; moondoggie; GSWarrior

On March 19, three bison gut piles were found on the Hawn property, eight dead bison were found on Bureau of Land Management property, four dead bison were found on U.S. Forest Service property, 14 dead bison were found on property owned by Catherine Pimm, and three bison gut piles were found on property owned by Robert Lemm.


11 posted on 05/16/2008 6:34:52 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

Actually, no. Bison are pretty easily confined by an electric fence, or 3-strand barb wire. I lived in Montana for 5 years and used to drive by ranches all the time with peacefully grazing buffalo behind such fences.


12 posted on 05/16/2008 6:39:00 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (You like Samurai swords? I like baseball!)
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To: george76
Open range laws are interesting when it comes to livestock but with the buffalo the situation may be different. Buffalo are generally considered a wild animal and if they are harassing domestic livestock the owner (state?) has the responsibility to control them. This rancher may well have been within his rights if he was killing to protect his stock or himself. Buffalo are dangerous and carry Brucellosis.
13 posted on 05/16/2008 6:39:21 AM PDT by Lion Den Dan
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To: Vaquero

Florida had the same laws on fencing until 1947, believe it or not!


14 posted on 05/16/2008 6:41:03 AM PDT by Lucius Cornelius Sulla (All of this has happened before, and will happen again!)
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To: Lion Den Dan

If the goal is to prevent disease, would leaving gut piles and rotting buffalo carcasses be effective? (Just asking, not trying to be inflammatory.)


15 posted on 05/16/2008 6:41:11 AM PDT by knittnmom (...surrounded by reality!)
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To: CholeraJoe

Someone said bison would push over a normal fence that would keep in cattle...


16 posted on 05/16/2008 6:44:04 AM PDT by Eric in the Ozarks
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To: Lion Den Dan

eight dead bison were found on Bureau of Land Management property,

four dead bison were found on U.S. Forest Service property,

14 dead bison were found on property owned by Catherine Pimm,

and three bison gut piles were found on property owned by Robert Lemm.


17 posted on 05/16/2008 6:45:31 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76
Great article in the Flume

18 posted on 05/16/2008 6:46:34 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks

I wonder if there was inadequate grazing available for the number of buffalo being kept. If they had adequate grazing, I would think buffalo would keep grazing at home. I don’t have any personal experience with that, though.


19 posted on 05/16/2008 6:50:39 AM PDT by knittnmom (...surrounded by reality!)
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To: 80 Square Miles; editor-surveyor; Carry_Okie; Myrddin; Troublemaker; familyop; Calpernia; ...

Of the 16 bison shot weeks prior, it was confirmed that seven cow bisons had unborn calves in utero, it said.

“Monte Downare has stated that all of the 20 cow bison killed on the property were bred and would have calved in 15 to 20 days.”


20 posted on 05/16/2008 6:51:33 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Eric in the Ozarks
If that were the case, I'm certain the Montana Highway department would have had heartburn with the big ranch over by Drummond that was less than 100 ft from Interstate 90 and fenced with 3 strand barbed wire on metal posts.


21 posted on 05/16/2008 6:51:58 AM PDT by CholeraJoe (You like Samurai swords? I like baseball!)
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To: XeniaSt

Mike Potter did a good report.


22 posted on 05/16/2008 6:53:23 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: laotzu

read the article....they broke down his fence, and the bison owner refused to fix or pay for it.....


23 posted on 05/16/2008 6:54:32 AM PDT by joe fonebone (The Second Amendment is the Contitutions reset button)
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To: george76

All the more reason to take care of one’s livestock. I don’t know who’s “right” in this case, but it seems there’s plenty that was left undone on both sides of the fence.


24 posted on 05/16/2008 6:54:37 AM PDT by knittnmom (...surrounded by reality!)
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To: george76
From the Article...The guy had up a legal fence and the Bison kept knocking it down and doing other damage. The Bison kept intruding so he authorized people to come shoot them. I don't see a problem here unless he killed them on other people's land.

In a civil lawsuit filed in early March, Hawn claimed the Downare's bison walked all over his property.

"On numerous separate occasions, herds of buffalo have broken through the fence and stampeded onto the Property to graze on the grass. The damage that the defendants' buffalo have caused to the Property is staggering. The fences are damaged and/or destroyed in more than fifty locations. The bent poles and broken wire has compromised the integrity of the entire fence. Additionally, the Defendants' buffalo have killed hundreds of trees on the property, including many trees near to the home that Mr. Hawn had professionally installed within the past year."

The lawsuit also states that the bison "knocked the TV and satellite Internet dishes off line" and caused additional damage to solar panels.

The lawsuit states that Hawn had a legal fence around his property at the time of the trespasses.

25 posted on 05/16/2008 6:58:48 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: 80 Square Miles; NVDave; MAINE-IAC

The owner of the live stock was responsible to recover the escaped animals and repair any damages.

The option for Hawn was to file a civil lawsuit if Monte Downare refused to repair the damages...

Hawn did not have the option to shoot on BLM, USFS...lands nor shoot on other people’s private property without their prior permission.


26 posted on 05/16/2008 7:01:36 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: Malsua

eight dead bison were found on Bureau of Land Management property,

four dead bison were found on U.S. Forest Service property,

14 dead bison were found on property owned by Catherine Pimm,

and three bison gut piles were found on property owned by Robert Lemm.


27 posted on 05/16/2008 7:04:47 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76
eight dead bison were found on Bureau of Land Management property, four dead bison were found on U.S. Forest Service property, 14 dead bison were found on property owned by Catherine Pimm, and three bison gut piles were found on property owned by Robert Lemm.

Isn't it amazing that some people can read an article and still not understand it!
28 posted on 05/16/2008 7:20:06 AM PDT by TexanByBirth (You can't fix stupid!... comedian Ron White)
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To: NavVet

When this guys gets HIS Buffalo Bill, it’s going to be a doozy!


29 posted on 05/16/2008 7:31:15 AM PDT by Still Thinking (Typical white person)
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To: Still Thinking
When this guys gets HIS Buffalo Bill, it’s going to be a doozy

;-)

30 posted on 05/16/2008 7:35:34 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: george76

This guy has a major problem, becasue only 3 of the 32 dead buffaloes were found on his property. I realize some may have wander off his land after being shot, but all 29? I hope he is punished to the full extent of the law, this city-slicker, who apparently thinks the laws do not apply to him.


31 posted on 05/16/2008 8:06:22 AM PDT by rawhide
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To: TexanByBirth
There are many other dimensions to this situation.
  • Downare is a local rancher with very deep roots in the community
  • Downare is a rancher raising Buffalo as livestock for use as consumer food.
  • Colorado has "open range" Law
  • Hawn is not a rancher, but from Austin Texas
  • Hawn is President and CEO of Attachmate a privately owned computer corporation from Seattle Washington
  • Hawn did not respect the law after advice from his first counsel
  • Hawn did not act in a reasonable manner, instead attempted to bully his neighbor
  • Hawn hired a anti-American illegal alien activist group to slaughter his neighbor's livestock
  • Hawn personally slaughtered his neighbor's livestock
  • Hawn had his lawyer draft a notarized letter authorizing the slaughter of his neighbor's livestock
  • The former owner of Hawn's property put him in contact with the Illegal Alien activist group
Hawn being the President and CEO of AttachMate computer corporation,
I can assume that he was not ignorant of the Law

I can only assume that Hawn is a city-slicker carpet-bagging bully
who thought that Colorado law did not apply to him,
as he is from Austin Texas and a big-time CEO.

or he is an unstable sociopath.

I'll bet he voted for either Barak Hussein Obama or Hillary Clinton


32 posted on 05/16/2008 8:16:34 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: george76

It seems this Atzlan Native Community in Gardner, Colorado calls itsself the Turtle Tribe. On their website they state that they especially welcome the “Xicano tribe” which is a way some militant Chicanos spell it. So it seems they may be more La Raza, reconquista types than a real native american indian tribe. I wonder what the association was between Hawn and this suspicious sounding group?


33 posted on 05/16/2008 8:25:00 AM PDT by MtnClimber (Obama pledges to give every typical small town white family a possum sandwich)
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To: XeniaSt

Good summary!


34 posted on 05/16/2008 8:26:49 AM PDT by MtnClimber (Obama pledges to give every typical small town white family a possum sandwich)
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To: MtnClimber
Good summary!

Thanks

There seems to be a lot of confusion and misunderstanding in this case.


35 posted on 05/16/2008 8:32:14 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: george76
Atzlan Native Community...?

aka the Advanced Guard to the Main Body (AGMB) in cold war military speak...

36 posted on 05/16/2008 8:36:26 AM PDT by TADSLOS (The GOP death march to the gravesite is underway.)
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To: TexanByBirth
Isn't it amazing that some people can read an article and still not understand it!

Isn't it amazing that some people can read what I wrote and not understand it. I was referring to HIM. If _he_ shot them on other folk's land, not the band of Aztlaners he "authorized" to shoot them.

37 posted on 05/16/2008 8:36:45 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: george76

I guess in Texas it’s the rancher’s job to maintain fences for his animals, and in Colorado it’s the neighbors job. Ok, I can understand why the guy who moved there from Texas was frustrated by that, but you have to follow the law in the state where you live even if you don’t like it, and shooting a man’s cows is pretty low.

He must’ve known shooting them was totally illegal too, since he got a bunch of Mexican immigrants to do it instead of himself.


38 posted on 05/16/2008 8:38:36 AM PDT by CatherinePPP
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To: XeniaSt
I can only assume that Hawn is a city-slicker carpet-bagging bully who thought that Colorado law did not apply to him, as he is from Austin Texas and a big-time CEO.

Your probably safe in assuming that!

But let's call this what it really is: a guy with more money than brains! Just because someone may be smart in business, does not mean they have a lick of common sense. Austin is full of such "new rich" people!

And you residents of Colorado, please don't assume anything done by folk in Austin represents the rest of the people in the State of Texas. Austin is like Boulder. It leaves the rest of us scratching our heads and going "WTF".

And living in Austin, it would be a safe bet that Hawn voted for either Barry or Hillary.
39 posted on 05/16/2008 8:40:40 AM PDT by TexanByBirth (You can't fix stupid!... comedian Ron White)
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To: TexanByBirth
Austin is like Boulder.

Amen to that !

40 posted on 05/16/2008 8:44:27 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: Malsua
Isn't it amazing that some people can read what I wrote and not understand it.

Did I refer to you at all?

No! So I guess you are just responding because you are feeling guilty?

Give it a rest!
41 posted on 05/16/2008 8:45:11 AM PDT by TexanByBirth (You can't fix stupid!... comedian Ron White)
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To: TexanByBirth

Got some toe jam in the teeth do ya?


42 posted on 05/16/2008 8:46:26 AM PDT by Malsua
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To: XeniaSt

Excellent summary.


43 posted on 05/16/2008 8:51:12 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: george76
Excellent summary.

There's been a lot of confusion and subtle points missed by
those out of state, who do not understand MEChA and AZTLAN

44 posted on 05/16/2008 9:01:03 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: XeniaSt

AZTLAN ==> ATZLAN


45 posted on 05/16/2008 9:02:14 AM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: george76
Having read the entire Flume article, I construct in my own mind the following chain of events that appears to be logical from the article.

1) Jeff Hawn has had a problem with Buffalo intruding upon and damaging his property.
2) He has a fence on his property that is in dispute as to legal status, but was incapable of keeping the buffalo out.
3) Hawn had filed civil lawsuit against the principal owners of the buffalo and has received a countersuit.
4) Based upon his ownership of the land and his view of his rights, he invited an organized group to hunt / capture buffalo on his land and provided maps to show boundaries of same.
5) Law Enforcement investigators have found matching characteristics between rifle slug, cartridge casing and a personal rifle of Jeff Hawn.
6) The cartridge was found off of the landowner's property in Forest Service Land.
7) Buffalo carcasses have been found in many locations with majority off his property with death estimates scattered over an indefinite but several week period.
8) At the time of the actual hunt in question Mr Hawn was not at the property, however some of the earlier buffalo kills were clearly visible from his residence.

From this it looks to me that Jeff Hawn became impatient with the course of the lawsuit as his property continued to suffer damage and the buffalo owners could not or would not stop these incursions. He had killed at least 2 buffalo himself and there may be evidence pointing to suspicion of one kill off of his property.
He then opens his property to a non-professional group of hunters to remove the intruding buffalo by death or capture, providing same with property maps. When informed by [telephone?] that more money would be needed by this non-professional group, he responds with a single week timeline before he would hire others to remove the buffalo for a fee.

From the facts presented, it looks like these amateur hunters went 'off reservation' and killed outside the property line. This would probably make Mr Hawn civilly responsible for damages there but I don't see the criminal case for the hunter's actions especially since he was not present for the hunt. If he can be positively tied to making a personal kill off of his property, then under Colorado's 'free range' provisions he may be both civilly and criminally responsible.

In any case this appears to end up being a rather foolish and very expensive exercise on Mr Hawn's part. He will now be facing both criminal and civil proceedings as a 'foreigner' (Texan) in a Colorado Court with local adversaries. It would probably have been cheaper to maintain the document trail of damages for his civil suit already filed.

46 posted on 05/16/2008 9:02:58 AM PDT by SES1066 (Cycling to conserve, Conservative to save, Saving to Retire, will Retire to Cycle.)
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To: MtnClimber

Of the 32 bison killed, only eight were shot on the Hawn property.

The rest were killed on property not owned or controlled by Hawn and his Wateredge Properties.

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/16291287/detail.html?rss=den&psp=news


47 posted on 05/16/2008 9:04:37 AM PDT by george76 (Ward Churchill : Fake Indian, Fake Scholarship, and Fake Art)
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To: TexanByBirth
Austin is like Boulder.

LOL! Yep. Sister cities in every respect.

48 posted on 05/16/2008 9:05:30 AM PDT by TADSLOS (The GOP death march to the gravesite is underway.)
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To: XeniaSt
There are many other dimensions to this situation.

Obviously I wrote mine before I saw yours. It appears that we are in no significant disagreement although I was trying to be dispassionate and not read anything beyond the obvious. I perhaps could / should have waited but it was an interesting exercise in logic.

49 posted on 05/16/2008 9:11:23 AM PDT by SES1066 (Cycling to conserve, Conservative to save, Saving to Retire, will Retire to Cycle.)
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To: Malsua
Got some toe jam in the teeth do ya?

No, my teeth are clean. I had them cleaned at the dentist about a month ago!

Give it a rest! You have already pulled down your pants and shown those of us in "flyover" country your butt once! We don't need to be reminded of it again!
50 posted on 05/16/2008 9:13:38 AM PDT by TexanByBirth (You can't fix stupid!... comedian Ron White)
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