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Military honchos 'suppress' chaplain's Baptist services
WorldNetDaily.com ^ | May 16, 2008 | Bob Unruh

Posted on 05/17/2008 4:16:27 AM PDT by Man50D

An investigation is being sought by a Christian church organization in the United States after the U.S. Army deliberately shut down a service one of its sponsored chaplains was running for U.S. military service personnel at Forward Operating Base Loyalty in Iraq.

The complaint by Associated Gospel Churches, a fellowship of Independent Fundamental Christian churches, has been forwarded to the Army by U.S. Rep. Walter Jones, R-N.C., seeking an Army Inspector General investigation.

Rev. G. William Baugham, the chairman of the AGC's commission on chaplains, told WND that the circumstances are particularly egregious since it appears it was a representative from another Christian denomination that closed down the service that had been operated at FOB Loyalty by Chaplain Stuart Kazarovich, who has been endorsed by the AGC.

The services held by Kazarovich were shut down for five weeks, from July 8-Aug. 12, 2007, the organization's report on the situation confirmed.

"Because this information is now in the public domain, the AGC acknowledges that the Fundamental Baptist service led by Chaplain Stuart Kazarovich, an AGC endorsed chaplain, appears to have been suppressed because it was offensive to the brigade chaplain," Baugham told WND in a prepared statement.

"AGC believes the Army's initial response was slow and ineffective, despite the unprecedented depredation of basic constitutional rights of the fundamental Baptist congregation," he continued. "In short, this calls attention to the suppression of a Fundamental Baptist service and the command's insensitivity to religious hostility."

(Excerpt) Read more at worldnetdaily.com ...


TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: 110th; chaplain; christians; iraq; kazarovich; stuartkazarovich; usarmy; walterjones

1 posted on 05/17/2008 4:16:27 AM PDT by Man50D
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To: Man50D

Amazing but true.


2 posted on 05/17/2008 4:25:26 AM PDT by Bulldawg Fan (Victory is the last thing Murtha and his fellow Defeatists want.)
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To: Man50D

This should be fun to watch as walter b jones is a sheep in pubbie clothing, sides with murtha on the war, this doesn’t appear to have anything to do with his district- and he hasn’t lifted a finger to stand up for Marines accused of murder since Ilario Pantano gave him a sword.


3 posted on 05/17/2008 4:31:15 AM PDT by freema (Proud Marine Niece, Daughter, Wife, Friend, Sister, Cousin, Mom and FRiend)
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To: xzins

ping


4 posted on 05/17/2008 5:03:34 AM PDT by Revelation 911
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To: Man50D
Jesus' own words are .. "Ye must be born again."

If any man rebels aginst that directive, he is de facto, anti Christ. (Not the anti Christ)

Please consider ...

If the way to heaven is denied from those that may more immediately die (they're in Iraq, remember) .. then I conclude the Satanic force to kill America is working on all fronts.

Our warfare may not be flesh and blood, but the flesh is torn and the blood is spilt because of the principalities and powers in high places.

5 posted on 05/17/2008 5:59:39 AM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true ... I have no proof ... but they're true.)
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To: Revelation 911; P-Marlowe; Gamecock; LiteKeeper; LTCJ; Thunder 6; blue-duncan

This article is full of bare-bones information.

It appears that there was some hostility by a brigade chaplain directed at a fundamentalist chaplain regarding a baptist service the battalion chaplain was conducting.

It appears that Ch Kaz was going on leave, and that during that interval his baptist service was suspended.

On his return the service was not reinstated.

Without having all the facts, allow me to offer these observations.

1. Specifically Denominational services NORMALLY are NOT held by chaplains in the field. Whether Catholic, Protestant, or Jewish, the idea in the field is to have an open general service within a broad-denomination framework. Therefore, a priest would expect to minister to Catholics, Orthodox, and maybe even to some liturgical Anglicans and Lutherans.

A “protestant” would expect to minister to baptists, presby’s, methodists, assemblies, etc...any protestant variety at all. This is generally referred to as a “general protestant service.”

2. A General Protestant Service is still a service and any prayers, preaching, or altar calls are entirely at the discretion of the officiating chaplain, and they should not be obstructed in any manner. (That’s not to say that a higher chaplain would not remove any chaplain from preaching responsibilities if that chaplain’s preaching, planning, personality, etc. were weak, resulting in poor attendance/support.)

This, however, should not normally be the case in a field setting.

3. A unit chaplain has responsibility under regulations to provide for the religious worship of all people in his unit, whether of his own denomination or not. In other words, if he’s a baptist and there are catholic soldiers in his unit, then he must arrange for a priest occasionally to drop by to conduct that variety of service.

4. I see no mention of this chaplain’s general responsibilities in this article, and I wonder if they had been neglected in favor of a denominational service that he was finding personal fulfillment in. Mind you, a battalion is probably in the neighborhood of 4-6 hundred soldiers. This fundamentalist service was accomodating approximately 30 people.

5. Having served as a brigade chaplain with a unit widely deployed, it is sometimes difficult to get information other than from battalion personnel.

6. In short, I’d be cautious about this one until more facts come out.

7. In the other Klingenschmitt case, Klingenschmitt was not released from service for praying in Jesus name. He was released for 2 reasons: (1) His denomination refused to continue his appointment to active duty, and (2) He disobeyed an order NOT to be in uniform at a public media event.


6 posted on 05/17/2008 6:05:39 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: xzins; Revelation 911; P-Marlowe; Gamecock; LiteKeeper; LTCJ; Thunder 6; blue-duncan

I remember we had a chaplain once, in garrison, who spoke some utter nonsense. One thing in particular that comes to mind was that women should wash before and after sex.

He was later relieved for all manner of behavior that would have landed junior enlisted in the stockade. He protested that he was being persecuted for his beliefs.


7 posted on 05/17/2008 6:26:07 AM PDT by Gamecock (The question is not, “Am I good enough to be a Christian?” rather “Am I good enough not to be?")
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To: Gamecock

The numerous sex washing passages of the book of Hezekiah clearly were violated.

How could they think to relieve such a bible scholar!

:>)


8 posted on 05/17/2008 6:31:59 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: Gamecock
*** we had a chaplain once, in garrison, who spoke some utter nonsense. One thing in particular that comes to mind was that women should wash before and after sex. ****

Well, that's not a bad idea, especially after.
They have to have something to do while us guys lay back and have a cigarette. ;-)

9 posted on 05/17/2008 6:36:27 AM PDT by Condor51 (I have guns in my nightstand because a Cop won't fit)
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To: xzins; Gamecock
upon CH Kazarovich's return from R&R July 24, 2007, the brigade chaplain told CH Kazarovich there would be no more Fundamental service," Baugham said.

What in the heck is he doing having a denominational service in the field? Army Chaplains are supposed to be somewhat ecumenical. They have to be, because soldiers don't have access to their own denomination. For instance, I'm Presbyterian - not stridently so, but one nonetheless. I might be able to find a Presby chaplain at Benning (where I'm TDY) or Hood (where I'm headed), but in the field you take what you can get.

What is it about these (relatively few) Chaplains who don't get it? They seem to love to cry "persecution" when, in fact, their own actions show them to be unsuited to military discipline.

Put it this way: this chaplain's actions would make it less likely I could approach him for personal or professional guidance.

10 posted on 05/17/2008 6:53:24 AM PDT by jude24 (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: jude24; LiteKeeper; Gamecock; P-Marlowe; LTCJ; Thunder 6

Jude, I worry about a chaplain in the field who has the time to dote over a private denominational service. My son during his year in Iraq said that their chaplain NEVER left the FOB. This is a battalion chaplain. His troops are scattered all over, and he should be on the road providing general services for them.

This raises red flags for me that Ch Kaz is stuck at base camp ministering to his favorite 30 folks while approximately 500 others — stationed someplace — are doing without religious coverage.

I don’t have enough info to make that evaluation, but it certainly is something I’d look at before I nailed this brigade chaplain based on what might be nothing more than whining from a battalion chaplain whose been exposed as a desk jocky.


11 posted on 05/17/2008 7:00:04 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: jude24; Gamecock; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Corin Stormhands

Are you in Jump School?

If so, prayers up, young troop!


12 posted on 05/17/2008 7:05:59 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: jude24; xzins; Gamecock; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Corin Stormhands

Jude,

If you are in jump school don’t forget; New Testament in the right breast pocket; your card and Retainer Agreement in the left, next to your heart. Very important!


13 posted on 05/17/2008 7:12:29 AM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: xzins

You make some good points. At a FOB, one chaplain often has to meet the spiritual needs of everyone - manning doesn’t allow a lot of separate services. If you have time for that, then you should have time to travel to remote sites.

That said, there can be extenuating circumstances for staying on a FOB. Travel can be very haphazard, depending on location. At one place I was at in Afghanistan, it took a week for the Brigade CC to get back to his own FOB. I knew of several ‘day trips’ that turned into a week or more.

My guess is like yours - this chaplain was concentrating on HIS service and not meeting the needs of the remote sites.


14 posted on 05/17/2008 7:19:35 AM PDT by Mr Rogers (No matter who wins the Presidency, it will be an enemy of the Constitution...)
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To: blue-duncan; xzins; Gamecock
If you are in jump school don’t forget; New Testament in the right breast pocket; your card and Retainer Agreement in the left, next to your heart. Very important!

Sounds like the makings of a cadence.

15 posted on 05/17/2008 7:23:41 AM PDT by jude24 (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Mr Rogers

Good thoughts, and the nature of the insurgent conflict in Iraq and Afghan certainly will dictate the timing of trips by a chaplain. However, there are very few convoys that wouldn’t be sufficient security for a battalion chaplain and his assistant. In fact, the Chaplain Assistant is a bodyguard and is not a religious person. He would enhance the security of the convoy.

I’m interested in more facts in this case. It’s too easy to sensationalize some chaplain’s complaint that he’s being picked on. It’s much harder to try to understand the responsibilities and complexities of providing ministry to troops spread over a broad area.


16 posted on 05/17/2008 7:33:40 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: Man50D
It sounds to me like the Brigade is looking for a politically correct Chaplain.
17 posted on 05/17/2008 8:01:37 AM PDT by OldEagle
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To: xzins

I agree with you 100%


18 posted on 05/17/2008 9:42:31 AM PDT by LiteKeeper (Beware the secularization of America; the Islamization of Eurabia)
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To: LiteKeeper

In the area of chaplain field coverage you are one of the experts. I appreciate your agreement.


19 posted on 05/17/2008 10:47:38 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: Man50D

You just can’t make this stuff up...


20 posted on 05/17/2008 12:54:15 PM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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To: xzins; jude24; P-Marlowe; blue-duncan; Dr. Eckleburg; ears_to_hear; Corin Stormhands

***Are you in Jump School?***

Makes me want to break out in song:

He was just a rookie trooper and he surely shook with fright.
He checked off his equipment and made sure his pack was tight.
He had to sit and listen to those awful engines roar.
You ain’t gonna jump no more.

Chorus:
Gory, gory, what a hell of way to die.
Gory, gory, what a hell of way to die.
Gory, gory, what a hell of way to die.
He ain’t gonna jump no more.

“Is everybody happy?” cried the sergeant looking up.
Our hero feebly answered, “Yes”, and then they stood him up.
He jumped into the icy blast, his static line unhooked.
And he ain’t gonna jump no more.

He counted long, he counted loud, he waited for the shock.
He felt the wind, he felt the cold, he felt the awful drop.
The silk from his reserve spilled out and wrapped around his legs.
And he ain’t gonna jump no more.

The risers swung around his neck, connectors cracked his dome.
Suspension lines were tied in knots around his skinny bones.
The canopy became his shroud, he hurtled to the ground.
And he ain’t gonna jump no more.

The days he lived and loved and laughed kept running through his mind.
He thought about the girl back home, the one he left behind.
He thought about the medicos and wondered what they’d find.
And he ain’t gonna jump no more.

The ambulance was on the spot, the jeeps were running wild.
The medics jumped and screamed with glee, rolled up their sleeves and smiled.
For it had been a week or more since last a ‘chute had failed.
And he ain’t gonna jump no more.

He hit the ground, the sound was “Splat,” his blood went spurting high.
His comrades they were heard to say, “A helluva way to die.”
He lay there rolling ‘round in the welter of his gore.
And he ain’t gonna jump no more.

There was blood upon the risers, there were brains upon the ‘chute.
Intestines were a-dangling from his paratrooper suit.
He was a mess, they picked him up and poured him from his boots.
And he ain’t gonna jump no more.


21 posted on 05/17/2008 2:26:07 PM PDT by Gamecock (The question is not, “Am I good enough to be a Christian?” rather “Am I good enough not to be?")
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To: xzins

Thank you for your insight here Chaplain. Having been in command myself as well as a battalion adjutant prior to that, and working closely with chaplains to provide religious coverage for the troops that were my responsibility, I immediately thought something was not quite right with the information provided in this article. We shall see I suppose.

For what it is worth, I always had a great appreciation for the contributions of the chaplaincy to our young men and women in uniform. Most people don’t realize the extent of the workload the average chaplain takes on in performing his or her duties. Just like other men and women who “sign up”, there are much easier ways to live out one’s calling but they choose to serve our troops and our nation.


22 posted on 05/17/2008 2:35:23 PM PDT by big'ol_freeper ("Preach the Gospel always, and when necessary use words". ~ St. Francis of Assisi)
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To: Gamecock

LOL!


23 posted on 05/17/2008 4:20:13 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: big'ol_freeper

Thanks for your service, bof.

Company Commanders had a knack for being where the action was really happening. It’s probably both the best and the hardest job in the military.


24 posted on 05/17/2008 4:25:20 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: blue-duncan

St. Michael protect us.

Regards,


25 posted on 05/17/2008 6:00:40 PM PDT by Thunder 6
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To: xzins

Chaplain,

I’m reminded of the episode of M*A*S*H when Col. Potter arrives, and upon meeting Fr. Mulcahey asks, “do you do Methodist?”

Our Chaplain was out on patrol all the time. It made our CSM worry like a mother-hen, but leaders need to post out front, and a Chaplain is a leader. Our guy, and the other two on the FOB were busy 24 hours a day from counseling a scared trooper, assisting with casualties in the Aid Station, and praying over the dead...in addition to services, and getting to sleep once in a while. Wouldn’t have traded him for the world.

The hardest thing to find in Iraq when we were there was a Catholic Chaplain. There aren’t enough left in the army. They were moved all over the battlefield to meet the demand for Communion.

There has to be more to this story.

Regards,


26 posted on 05/17/2008 6:12:39 PM PDT by Thunder 6
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To: Thunder 6
There has to be more to this story.

I agree. Something's missing.

Grace to you, T6.

27 posted on 05/17/2008 7:26:52 PM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain -- Those denying the War was Necessary Do NOT Support the Troops!)
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To: Man50D; freema; SandRat

Marine Bump!


28 posted on 05/18/2008 5:41:01 AM PDT by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots! Semper Fi!)
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