To: **Flashlight**

“At the quantum level, given a set of exact starting conditions we can’t say what will happen next - but we do know that if the exact same starting conditions are repeated a large number of times the set of results can be predicted with great accuracy.

So, that’s the same as if God is throwing dice or flipping a coin to determine what happens next at the quantum level.”

The “dice” or “coin flip” analogy is probably correct, though most physicists do not think about it. The behavior of dice and coins is not random, but quite distinctly physically determined. The presumed “randomness” has entirely to do with our ignorance of what is going to happen.

Hank

To: **Hank Kerchief**

Hank Kerchief said: **"The behavior of dice and coins is not random, but quite distinctly physically determined. The presumed “randomness” has entirely to do with our ignorance of what is going to happen."**

You mean if we knew exactly what every atom in a die was going to do, we could predict the behavior of the die?

You seem to be stating that classical physics applies to very large systems without stating that such an outcome is predicted by quantum physics due to the very large number of independent random events.

25 posted on **05/19/2008 11:14:05 AM PDT** by William Tell
(RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)

To: **Hank Kerchief**

true. the apparent random behavior of dice and coins can be explained totally by "hidden variables."

that is why physicists would simply expect "hidden variables" to also explain quantum behavior. the trouble is (thanks to Bell's theorem) any possible hidden-variable explanation would also have to somehow explain "instantaneous" communication across light-year distances.

Does anyone else remember the Bell's Theorum Blues? (I have no idea where I heard this, but I always remember it.) Let's all sing:

"Dr. Bell says we're connected,

I called him on the phone.

Dr. Bell says we're connected,

I called him on the phone.

Yeah, but if we're all connected...

Why do I feel so alone??"

To: **Hank Kerchief**

The entire set of probabilities is not random but the timing of any given event is random.The “dice” or “coin flip” analogy is probably correct, though most physicists do not think about it. The behavior of dice and coins is not random, but quite distinctly physically determined. The presumed “randomness” has entirely to do with our ignorance of what is going to happen.

You know with a non-random certainty that you're going to see more poker hands with just a single pair than you are with a full house, but it IS completely random (if the cards are shuffled) whether or not YOU will get a full house on the next deal.

I've heard professional poker players say: "There's only one poker game, and it's going on all the time, and it never changes."

Meaning that all concepts such as "good streak" or "bad streak" or "getting bad cards today" are illusions and that every single deal has the exact same set of probabilities.

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