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Fresh blow for topless Swedish bathers
www.thelocal.se ^ | 05212008 | David Landes

Posted on 05/21/2008 9:54:10 PM PDT by WesternCulture

Women will continue to be barred from bathing topless at an indoor pool in the central Swedish town of Enköping following a decision by the town council’s recreation committee on Tuesday.

Prior to the decision, committee member Stefan Brandberg cited concerns about the health of young girls in his opposition to the proposed lifting of the ban.

“We believe that it can contribute to anorexia—there is a risk for that,” he said to the newspaper Expressen.

Monica Hällgren, chair of the Enköping recreation committee, confirmed that one of the central arguments for leaving the ban in place was concern over the potential for topless women bathing to create conditions which could lead to a spike in eating disorders.

“We feel that topless bathing contributes to a preoccupation with people’s bodies and that isn’t something to which we felt the municipality wanted to contribute,” she told The Local.

According to Hällgren, the council had taken up the question after receiving an email from a man who complained that banning topless bathing by women while allowing men to swim bare-chested amounted to discrimination.

The issue of women going topless in public pools has received a great deal of attention in Sweden in recent months after two bare-breasted young women were kicked out of swimming pool in Uppsala last autumn.

Outraged by what they considered discrimination, a group of women in southern Sweden established the Bara Bröst network to demonstrate their solidarity with the women.

The network, whose name translates both as 'Bare Breasts' and 'Just Breasts', was mentioned in the discrimination complaint sent to public officials in Enköping.

However, there was little actual debate when the committee decided that the ban should remain in place.

“It was a unanimous decision,” said Hällgren.

She emphasized that the ban only applies to the town’s one indoor pool and that, as of now there is nothing stopping women from going topless at any municipal outdoor pools.

“I understand why people want to go topless outside when they have the sun to consider,” she added.

“But we couldn’t think of any reason why someone would need to be topless at the indoor pool…it’s a place for families, after all.”


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: anorexia; antibikini; bikini; chat; nudity; sbt; scandinavia; sweden; swedishbikiniteam; topless

1 posted on 05/21/2008 9:54:11 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

“We believe that it can contribute to anorexia—there is a risk for that,”

- Being Swedish myself, I can testify our politicians are admirable in the way they are experts of more or less everything.


2 posted on 05/21/2008 9:54:43 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

please don’t post pictures of those two women. if i remember correctly, they were hideous in appearance. :)


3 posted on 05/21/2008 9:59:15 PM PDT by robomatik ((wine plug: renascentvineyards.com cabernet sauvignon, riesling, and merlot))
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To: WesternCulture
“We believe that it can contribute to anorexia—there is a risk for that,”

A novel defense, but how about those who have issues with their bodies simply stop swimming in public. If they insist on swimming in public, I didn't see anything that would prevent them from wearing a suit that covered their breasts.

4 posted on 05/21/2008 9:59:30 PM PDT by econjack (Some people are as dumb as soup.)
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To: WesternCulture
I don't get it. "Allowing" topless does not "require" topless. So if a woman is uncomfortable with her breasts, she can wear a top.

What's the problem here? If the local culture allows topless pretty much every other bathing place, and they want this place to be special, they should get honest and just say that.

Sounds like a hidden agenda at work.

5 posted on 05/21/2008 10:02:05 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: robomatik

“please don’t post pictures of those two women. if i remember correctly, they were hideous in appearance. :)”

- They were indeed. All Swedish women are not beautiful.

There are feminists in all countries.


6 posted on 05/21/2008 10:02:33 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: robomatik
> please don’t post pictures of those two women. if i remember correctly, they were hideous in appearance. :)

I think you're safe. Bare boobies are verboten on FR posts anyway. Even hideous ones.

7 posted on 05/21/2008 10:03:52 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: WesternCulture
"Fresh blow for topless Swedish bathers"

There's so much one could do with that headline, and all of it is wrong, wrong, wrong...

8 posted on 05/21/2008 10:05:50 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: dayglored

“There’s so much one could do with that headline, and all of it is wrong, wrong, wrong...”

- I agree. However, being in the possession of a vivid imagination and creative verbal skills is nothing wrong per se.


9 posted on 05/21/2008 10:08:22 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: dayglored
"Fresh blow for topless Swedish bathers"

LOL!!
10 posted on 05/21/2008 10:09:25 PM PDT by kb2614 (Hell hath no fury than a bureaucrat scorned)
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To: robomatik
Before a woman can bare her breasts in public, she (they) should have to be approved by a board composed of men.

At considerable personal sacrifice, I volunteer to serve on that board.

11 posted on 05/21/2008 10:10:26 PM PDT by Publius (A = A)
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To: WesternCulture
a group of women in southern Sweden established the Bara Bröst network

I wonder if there are any dues? Or maybe, some type of hazing ritual to join? Hmmmmm..

12 posted on 05/21/2008 10:18:11 PM PDT by VeniVidiVici (Ted Kennedy is the finest collection of hops and barley money can buy)
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To: Publius

“At considerable personal sacrifice, I volunteer to serve on that board.”

Enköpings kommun
Kungsgatan 42
745 80 Enköping

Tel: +46171-62 50 00

Tel Info center: +46171-62 54 75

E-mail: information@enkoping.se


13 posted on 05/21/2008 10:20:01 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture
- Being Swedish myself, I can testify our politicians are admirable in the way they are experts of more or less everything.

LOL! Unfortunately, politicians in America suffer from this same expertise.

14 posted on 05/21/2008 10:20:56 PM PDT by timm22 (Think critically)
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To: econjack

I know, why not public nudity all the time? The few of us who find that to be a symptom of insanity can just avoid public pools.


15 posted on 05/21/2008 10:27:39 PM PDT by Marie2 (I used to be disgusted. . .now I try to be amused.)
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To: timm22
“LOL! Unfortunately, politicians in America suffer from this same expertise.”

- Swedish politicians aren't really that unique perhaps..

I wonder where in this world one can find politicians with a bit of a humble approach.

Venezuela?

Zimbabwe?

Not really. Even in Tibet, a part of the world often associated with spiritual maturity, political leaders believe they actually are “experts of more or less everything” - look at Dalai Lama :D

16 posted on 05/21/2008 10:31:54 PM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: Slings and Arrows; martin_fierro

Headline of the Week alert!


17 posted on 05/21/2008 10:35:32 PM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007 (Look at all the candidates. Choose who you think is best. Choose wisely in 2008.)
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To: robomatik

If they were Italian it would not be an issue.


18 posted on 05/21/2008 10:39:42 PM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: WesternCulture
She emphasized that the ban only applies to the town’s one indoor pool and that, as of now there is nothing stopping women from going topless at any municipal outdoor pools.

Hopefully not near any street intersections. Recipe for disaster.

19 posted on 05/21/2008 10:48:44 PM PDT by TheWasteLand
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To: Ultra Sonic 007; MeekOneGOP; Conspiracy Guy; DocRock; King Prout; Darksheare; OSHA; ...
Headline of the Week alert!

Seconded.


20 posted on 05/21/2008 10:58:04 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("Code Pink should guard against creating stereotypes in the Mincing Community." --Titan Magroyne)
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To: WesternCulture

...hahahahaha


21 posted on 05/21/2008 11:48:59 PM PDT by americanophile
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To: WesternCulture
"We feel that topless bathing contributes to a preoccupation with people’s bodies..."

Prove it.

22 posted on 05/21/2008 11:50:53 PM PDT by americanophile
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To: WesternCulture

Sheesh, what’s the big deal. They’re only breasts. There have been a few times when I’ve gone to the beach (when it wasn’t crowded), laid down on my towel, and (discreetly) taken off the bikini top. I’d put it on again before I got up. With my small size, it’s not like I have much to show anyway.


23 posted on 05/22/2008 12:02:18 AM PDT by JillValentine (Being a feminist is all about being a victim. Being an armed woman is all about not being a victim.)
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To: americanophile

“Prove it.”

They don’t have to. They are the town council’s recreation committee of Enköping - that means they are infallible:)


24 posted on 05/22/2008 12:14:27 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

The network, whose name translates both as ‘Bare Breasts’ and ‘Just Breasts’, was mentioned in the discrimination complaint sent to public officials in Enköping.


I guess it would be okay as long as they remembered to shave their chests so bees don’t get trapped in the hair...that hurts.


25 posted on 05/22/2008 12:35:05 AM PDT by crazyhorse691 (With McCain around we can proudly proclaim, WE ARE SO SCREWED)
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To: WesternCulture

Maybe the private market should step in and offer a private club pool these woman can join.


26 posted on 05/22/2008 1:09:10 AM PDT by weegee (We cant keep our homes on 72 at all times & just expect that other countries are going to say OK -BO)
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To: dayglored
A Pair of Bear Bobbies, don't look!


27 posted on 05/22/2008 1:11:51 AM PDT by weegee (We cant keep our homes on 72 at all times & just expect that other countries are going to say OK -BO)
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To: WesternCulture

but how else are they to swim the breaststroke?


28 posted on 05/22/2008 1:13:26 AM PDT by weegee (We cant keep our homes on 72 at all times & just expect that other countries are going to say OK -BO)
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To: JillValentine
> Sheesh, what’s the big deal. They’re only breasts.

You're absolutely right, of course. But there are those folks who, for whatever reason, never got over the (pick one) a) fascination, or b) horror, of seeing bare breasts. The former are mostly (us) males; the latter seem to mostly be females who are themselves uncomfortable with their bodies.

Personally, I like breasts, most are very pleasing to look at (if the bearer doesn't mind), and they are after all, perfectly normal human parts. But as you say, they're only breasts.

> There have been a few times when I’ve gone to the beach (when it wasn’t crowded), laid down on my towel, and (discreetly) taken off the bikini top. I’d put it on again before I got up. With my small size, it’s not like I have much to show anyway.

Don't disparage yourself -- size has nothing to do with beauty, and indeed many of us prefer to look at or be with women who are not top-heavy.

With regard to your tagline ("Being a feminist is all about being a victim. Being an armed woman is all about not being a victim."), I daresay that a good number of the men on this forum might be more likely to notice the make and model of your firearm, before noticing that you didn't have a top on. ;-)

29 posted on 05/22/2008 1:23:29 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: JillValentine
“Sheesh, what’s the big deal. They’re only breasts.”

- Bare breasts are something very common at Swedish beaches (Swedish summers are actually rather warm; especially in June and July southern Sweden is sometimes the hottest part of Europe! - this is mainly because of the Gulf Stream). For some reason, certain people over here who view this as something perfectly ok oppose the phenomena of topless INDOOR bathing.

The explanation might be the special relation we Swedes (and Finns) have to nature. Bathing naked in a small forest lake underneath the never setting midsummer sun is an expression of something typically Nordic to us. In such contexts, nudity is more or less a manifestation of individual freedom.

However, there is a completely different aspect of Nordic culture and that is the deeply rooted Nordic version of Lutheranism which in many ways is a culture of collective, absolute control over the individual. The traditional Swedish definition of democratic rights is more or less “Everything is a political matter”. True individual freedom is something potentially dangerous and must be kept away from public surroundings. It could be allowed at your summerhouse in the countryside, but not in the city.

In Sweden, public indoor swimming pools are not viewed as a part of “nature”, it is an “urban” environment, therefore politicians are expected to launch sound rules for it. To most Swedes, (adult) nudity is incompatible with “family” situations taking place in public surroundings. But on the other hand, bathing is something closely associated with “nature” and many women feel that their “breasts are just breasts”. This conflict gives rise to a raging debate in a country that hasn't experienced war for 200 years, everyone is entitled to a Volvo V70 and no politician would ever dream of questioning the trade unions right to participate in shaping the future of IKEA, Ericsson and SAAB.

30 posted on 05/22/2008 1:28:12 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

Swedish topless bathing leads to an increased incidence of moose bites.

No seriously, my sister was bitten by a moose while she was topless bathing.


31 posted on 05/22/2008 2:53:08 AM PDT by NaughtiusMaximus (Bible toting, bitter and armed with slashing sarcasm.)
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To: WesternCulture
More news in the , "Oh no, kids might see exposed flesh!!!" chicken little style idiocy department. As a side note:

We believe that it can contribute to anorexia—there is a risk for that,” he said to the newspaper Expressen.

What an idiot.
32 posted on 05/22/2008 3:54:06 AM PDT by arderkrag (Libertarian Nutcase (Political Compass Coordinates: 9.00, -2.62 - www.politicalcompass.org))
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To: dayglored

It is a hidden agenda - the nany state agenda. Gotta keep those body parts out of the wandering eyes of the kiddies - after all, it’s not like a little over half will grow up to have those same kind of parts one day.


33 posted on 05/22/2008 3:58:42 AM PDT by arderkrag (Libertarian Nutcase (Political Compass Coordinates: 9.00, -2.62 - www.politicalcompass.org))
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To: dayglored; JillValentine

“... more likely to notice the make and model of your firearm, before noticing that you didn’t have a top on.”

This involves a complex calculus involving several variables:

* Relative motion detection, (Jiggle Factor.)
* Population density psf, (Juggle Factor.)
* Wife Unit proximity, (Leash Factor.)
* Make/model of the weapon itself, (Shiny Thing Factor.)


34 posted on 05/22/2008 4:48:30 AM PDT by Enosh (†)
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To: Publius

“... (they) should have to be approved by a board composed of men.”

Since women are often more critical of each other than men are of women, I suspect that a board composed of women would have higher standards. You would want to have a minimum pass rate, though ...


35 posted on 05/22/2008 7:16:38 AM PDT by riverdawg
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To: WesternCulture
I clicked on the link (purely for research purposes) and came across this other story. Swedish professor: 'Bras cause saggy breasts'. Fair and Balanced reporting even in Sveden?
36 posted on 05/22/2008 7:23:57 AM PDT by McGruff
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To: McGruff

“I clicked on the link (purely for research purposes) and came across this other story. Swedish professor: ‘Bras cause saggy breasts’. Fair and Balanced reporting even in Sveden?”

- Guess so:D


37 posted on 05/22/2008 8:30:43 AM PDT by WesternCulture
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To: WesternCulture

Bare booby:


38 posted on 05/22/2008 8:43:44 AM PDT by Arkancide (www.arkancide.com)
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To: dayglored
I daresay that a good number of the men on this forum might be more likely to notice the make and model of your firearm, before noticing that you didn't have a top on.

I wouldn't be among them; you gotta keep your priorities straight.

39 posted on 05/22/2008 11:48:01 AM PDT by TexasRepublic (When hopelessness replaces hope, it opens the door to evil.)
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To: arderkrag

Yeah, and once the nanny state gets off our backs, we can not only walk around naked, we can have sex in public too. Why not, after all dogs do it. Can’t wait for that great day of freedom.


40 posted on 05/22/2008 12:20:35 PM PDT by Marie2 (I used to be disgusted. . .now I try to be amused.)
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To: WesternCulture

Monica Hällgren, chair of the Enköping recreation committee, confirmed that one of the central arguments for leaving the ban in place was concern over the potential for topless women bathing to create conditions which could lead to a spike in eating disorders.

WTF? Seriously? I’d think it would lead to an increase in breast augmentation surgery at the worst, not anorexia, because eating disorders tend to have a negative effect on girls’ bra sizes.


41 posted on 05/22/2008 3:31:46 PM PDT by Hyzenthlay (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: Enosh; JillValentine; TexasRepublic
>> “... more likely to notice the make and model of your firearm, before noticing that you didn’t have a top on.”

> This involves a complex calculus involving several variables:
* Relative motion detection, (Jiggle Factor.)
* Population density psf, (Juggle Factor.)
* Wife Unit proximity, (Leash Factor.)
* Make/model of the weapon itself, (Shiny Thing Factor.)

Well, let's see... "Jiggling" one's firearm is probably a bad plan in general. Breasts, on the other hand [snort], are intended to jiggle a little. Not a lot, just a little; but some. Thus we see an immediate differentiation based on relative motion. Agreed.

Population density is indeed a factor, mainly (I would imagine) from distraction. For example, if the beach were mainly populated by topless women, then the one with the firearm would stand out all the more for that, whereas if the rest were clothed in, say, burkas, the topless one might draw enough attention to require the use of the firearm. Juggling would be a serious consideration. So, agreed.

Wife Unit proximity... this varies highly with model of Wife Unit. My wife (now a friendly ex) is exceedingly broad-minded and self-assured, and occasionally would draw my attention to a particularly lovely woman, if I appeared to be looking elsewhere. I never really experienced much of a Leash Factor, so I'll defer on that variable.

Make/model of the weapon. While I admit to a strong "Shiny Thing Factor" attraction, and have a small number of guns, I also admit to not being able to positively identify make and model of most at a distance. So probably I am somewhat out-classed by the average gun-toting FReeper.

And as another poster (TexasRepublic) pointed out, the breasts would probably win out over the firearms for most of us -- gotta keep those priorities straight!

42 posted on 05/22/2008 7:11:44 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: WesternCulture

Great article.

Samsioe cites a French study on women ages 18 to 25 which found that the distance between a woman’s nipples and the ground decreased in women who wore bras.

Ah, only the French.


43 posted on 05/22/2008 8:02:59 PM PDT by tet68 ( " We would not die in that man's company, that fears his fellowship to die with us...." Henry V.)
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