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Snag in deal to return Texas sect kids to parents
AP Via Yahoo ^ | 5/30/2008 | Michelle Roberts

Posted on 05/30/2008 5:34:10 PM PDT by festus

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To: patton

I think it’s a bit of both, but then INALE. :)

That said, the requirements of using a confidential informant require said informant to be know to LE and known to tell the truth.

I don’t think they had a clue to who this “woman/girl” was, but if they did, as some reports have towards, it makes it all the worse.


161 posted on 05/31/2008 6:51:11 AM PDT by SouthTexas (If you are not living on the edge, you are taking up too much space!)
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To: Flo Nightengale
Amended September 2005.

Thanks for the info Flo.

I find it interesting that this was amended the same time that the age of consent was raised. I wonder what parts were amended.

162 posted on 05/31/2008 7:40:19 AM PDT by HeartlandOfAmerica (Don't blame me - I voted for Fred and am STILL a FredHead!)
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To: Texas_shutterbug
Polygamy sucks for the women and children.

Then the women can decline to participate.

Tell me, how do you think you would feel the day your wife took another husband?

Don't have one, don't intend to have one. Tried that for 3.5 decades or half my life expectancy. Still don't know why.

163 posted on 05/31/2008 11:02:02 AM PDT by elkfersupper
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To: William Tell

Physicians, other health care workers and teachers are some people that have a duty to report *suspected* child abuse in Texas.


164 posted on 05/31/2008 11:48:13 AM PDT by hocndoc (http://www.LifeEthics.org (I have a mustard seed and I'm not afraid to use it.))
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To: William Tell
There was nothing "extra-legal" about any of the measures I listed

Never said there was. I just have a preference for statutory provisions.

Clearly citing the district Judge for contempt is well within the power of the courts above, as would be ordering her arrest on contempt. ('d pay good money for a video of that arrest. :)

Vacating the order directly themselves, I would think would be within their power, but as a procedural matter, I don't *know* that it is. Ditto directly ordering CPS to release the children.

165 posted on 05/31/2008 2:23:25 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: HeartlandOfAmerica; humblegunner
This is the biggest problem with you pro-govt/anti-constitutionalists

Humblegunner pro government and anti constitution? ROTFLMAO!

We disagree on this issue, (I think, it's hard to tell exactly what he thinks on the "due process" issue) but I certainly would never characterize my friend that way. And neither would you if you really knew him.

166 posted on 05/31/2008 2:47:41 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: CAluvdubya
I will grant you that proving anything without the help of the Stepford wives is pretty much impossible....sadly. Texas and the CPS tried.

Not bringing criminal charges is "trying"? Besides criminal charges and such fall outside the purview of CPS. The Texas Rangers, the local Sheriff and other law enforcement, including the local DA and Texas Attorney General. So far, no charges from them.

CPS may have queered that deal by going in based on a fake phone call, which even a little investigation would have shown to be fake, thus poisoning any evidence obtained, either under their warrants or those obtained (on the same information) by the Texas Rangers.

167 posted on 05/31/2008 2:53:59 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: William Tell
I certainly wouldn't expect to have to give up DNA samples of my children without a warrant.

There was a specific court order, from the same Judge of course, to take the DNA. It doesn't appear to be in the form of a warrant though, but I'm not up on the legal differences. At least it doesn't say it's a warrant, as those issued for search and arrest in this case do.

168 posted on 05/31/2008 3:24:32 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: patton
Fingerprints +DNA - silly. If I need to establish that person A is Person A that I tested last week, I can simply test Person A again.

The ostensible purpose of the DNA testing was not to establish the ID of the persons tested, but rather the parental relationship. Now fingerprints might not be required, but you'd need some way to tie a particular sample to a particular person. For which purpose I would think photos would be sufficient.

169 posted on 05/31/2008 4:04:10 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: El Gato
El Gato said: "Vacating the order directly themselves, I would think would be within their power, but as a procedural matter, I don't *know* that it is."

I would think that vacating the order directly would almost have to be among the things they could do, given the possibility that the lower court might do as we have seen; that is, fail to carry out the order of the higher court.

In the infamous Miller Decision, the US Supreme Court "reversed and remanded" the case before it. They could have simply ordered the original court to reverse its own decision.

The way the Texas Appeals Court did it, it gives the original judge an opportunity to explain the legal ruling. Otherwise, the judge would simply announce the ruling, perhaps with no explanation. The Texas Appeals Court, I think, was just doing the polite thing, but Judge Walther didn't realize that she is BOUND by that decision. I find it hard to believe what she is doing and has claimed.

I think Bush v. Gore had an element of this. The US Supreme Court provided guidance to Florida initially, I think, and the Florida Supreme Court didn't take the hint. After the Florida Supreme Court effectively refused to recognize the law, the US Supreme Court made the ruling itself.

Liberals in general seem to be so hung up on being "fair" that they are willing to change or bend the rules whenever those who make the rules decide that fairness argues for the change. But they seem totally blind to the idea that sticking to the rules agreed to initially is the way to be fair.

170 posted on 05/31/2008 4:16:19 PM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: El Gato
El Gato said: "At least it doesn't say it's a warrant, as those issued for search and arrest in this case do."

First the Judge and the CPS unlawfully take custody of all the children. Then, because they did so with no regard to which families are affected, they make the claim that the only way to establish parentage is to demand DNA samples from everyone involved, including those who might be incarcerated and subject to criminal prosecution.

The date on the order is April 18, which was AFTER the taking of the children. Had such an order been lawful prior to the taking of the children, then it would have constituted a blanket order to test everybody on the ranch, with few names associated with the order. That would have been too obviously unjustified by the lack of evidence.

The Appeals Court has ordered the return of the children without the benefit of DNA testing. Once the children are returned, the presumptive rationale for obtaining the DNA disappears, bringing into question whether the CPS can continue to hold the DNA information.

The Judge and the CPS basically bet their all on the idea that the DNA testing would prove that crimes have been committed. If it does not, there is going to be hell to pay.

171 posted on 05/31/2008 4:44:34 PM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: TLI

Does (soon-to-be-ex)judge Barbara Walther know the meaning of CONTEMPT OF COURT?

I believe the next major step will be Ms. Barbara Walther going to jail until she signs the order releasing the children, for contempt of court for failing to follow the ORDER issued to her by TWO higher courts.

I do not believe she is considered a judge with any power whatsoever once she is an inmate in the county jail for CONTEMPT OF COURT.

Burn in HELL MS. “JUDGE” BARBABA WALTHER!

(While I do not support the FLDS in any manner whatsoever, I do find this judge’s actions to be highly illegal and it is warranted that she be jailed for refusing the order of the higher two courts until such times she signs the order and following that, she needs to be suspended while the process to remove her from the bench proceeds forward.)


172 posted on 05/31/2008 9:37:12 PM PDT by sgbradley ("Issue the warrant for the arrest of BARBARA WALTHER for CONTEMPT OF COURT")
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To: elkfersupper
Since when is a thirteen or fourteen or even fifteen year old girl "a woman?"

By the time they are mature enough to realize they made a mistake, they have a couple of kids, a sixth grade education, and no friends in the outside world. :(

173 posted on 06/01/2008 1:43:14 PM PDT by Texas_shutterbug
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To: AndyJackson

What does she not understand about HER RULING IS OVERTURNED, not overturned until but you can still make some tweaks to it...


174 posted on 06/01/2008 3:48:54 PM PDT by Mr. K (Some days even my lucky rocketship underpants don't help)
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