Posted on 05/30/2008 5:57:49 PM PDT by daniel1212
BAGHDAD — A U.S. Marine handed out coins promoting Christianity to Muslims in the former insurgent stronghold of Fallujah, outraged Sunni officials said Friday. The U.S. military responded quickly, removing a trooper from duty pending an investigation.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I actually think the AP is more upset than many Muslims.
After WW2 general McArthur wanted 1,000 missionaries as soon as possible in Japan.
I used to suggest that maybe giving out "Chick" type tract showing where suicide bombers really go after the die - and how to really live thru Jesus instead - would both be a deterrent and means of salvation to many.
Inappropriate conduct? I have to say, it took guts.
No he isn't. From the article: "Sunni officials and residents said a Marine distributed about 10 coins at a checkpoint controlling access to the city, the scene of one of the fiercest battles of the war."
Among other things he is violating a direct order and in deriliction of his duties at the checkpoint. He is endangering the lives of his fellow soldiers, and stirring up local resentment when the strategy in place is to work with the local populace to ensure peace, stability and transition to Iraqi control [and hopefully, when appropriate American withdrawal].
Ill considered acts like these undermine the work and sacrifice of everyone who is serving, everyone who has given life and limb, and the American public who are paying for this.
A warrior preaching the teachings of Jesus to conquered people.
There is some irony obvious here. Can’t quite pinpoint it yet..
All our Marines should give out Christian coins and BIBLES AND CROSSES.
islam is the problem
This Marine earned the right to hand out christian anything, the problem is we have a President who sits down with the enemy and celebrates their ramadingdong dinners instead of standing with his Marines.
Despite my commendation of the Marine, it cannot work like that (State supported much less enforced evangelism). But as far as physical war is concerned, there is no country that is viably Biblically Christian that is or would be a military threat to the U.S.
What you are saying doesn’t make sense.
Here’s this marine, at a checkpoint, with a gun, ready to fire, or to restrict access to these people’s own neighborhood.
He is handing out coins that preach a religion of love, turning the other cheek, peace and non-violence.
Do you see something wrong here?
I sympathize with him, and I wish we would do more to encourage conversions in Iraq, instead of sitting on our hands while the Muslims there kill and drive out the remaining Christians in their country.
But I also agree that when you are in the military, you have to obey orders.
Maybe it could be justified when he was off duty, but I’m not sure if you can really be off duty in what amounts to a war zone.
Charlemagne conquered the Saxons and gave them the choice of conversion to Christianity or death. Later, at what is called the ‘Massacre of Verden,’ he executed thousands of Saxons who reverted to their old religion.
It worked. Today almost all Saxons are Christians.
Yes, why aren't the rest of the troops doing the same?
Are you suggesting that one way or the other, we should do this to Iraqis?
Sounds like your Christianity and my Christianity don’t share the same motives and values.
The moment Iraqi's perceive that our mission is proselytizing at gunpoint rather than suppressing disruptive forces from Al Qaeda and other insurgents is the day we become the target. Again. We already tried being the enemy there. That did not work out to well for us.
This kind of nonsense just plays into the hands of our detractors, undermines our mission and will get folks killed.
You're deluded.
A Marine, perhaps, but not an obedient Christian. The Gospel must come first in all situations. Anything else is a victory for the prince of this world.
No.
Because they’re part of the military and a secular governmental organization. They’re not missionaries.
Definately. Yours sounds like Peter's denial of Christ at the trial.
Evangelism is the peace time job of the preacher.
A warrior, in the midst of a violent environment, is not really a good representative of Jesus.
Alienating the population is not what they're there for.
This Marine earned the right to hand out christian anything, the problem is we have a President who sits down with the enemy and celebrates their ramadingdong dinners instead of standing with his Marines.
What if the local population pressed Korans and the like on the Marines? What would you suggest their reaction should be?
I disagree with you.
A man with a gun, possibly moments from shooing another human (a brother! as Jesus would say -”Love your enemy”) isn’t the right person to be an evangelist.
That's undeniable...
"They’re not missionaries."
Then they're not real Christians either. The spread of the Gospel cannot be allowed to yield to anything. That relm is not ceaser's
Ffranco wrote:
Charlemagne conquered the Saxons and gave them the choice of conversion to Christianity or death. Later, at what is called the ‘Massacre of Verden,’ he executed thousands of Saxons who reverted to their old religion.
It worked. Today almost all Saxons are Christians.
...........................
One of the problems around here is that few people know what actual conversion is. You cannot force someone convert. You cannt argue someone into conversion. Only the Holy Spirit can convert someone. A Christian is only called to preach the gospel.
Spend more time with the word.
I agree. I do not think many people today who call themselves Christians would choose the same conversion method as Charlemagne. Though, some might come close.
Evangelism is the 24-7 job of every Christian.
I agree with you. What this marine did was wrong and dumb.
No, I agree, and perhaps should not have put it that way. Islam does often spread its creed at gun point, and even today is telling people in various parts of the world to convert or die; but Christianity can’t work that way.
Spent enough with the Word (eastern orthodoxy) to know that the sword and professing love don’t mingle. I’m sorry your Word allows you to feel differently.
Maybe not real Christians in your eyes. I don’t see how being tactful about approaching religion (to an already turblent populace wary of foreigners) is a betrayal to Christianity if it prevents enflaming hostility towards it.
Half my people were forced into conversions to Islam in the 16th century-19th century.
I was thinking of the man’s courage, but you are right that to do so could endanger others, esp. if the military sanctioned it. Any sharing would have to be informal and discreet and non threatening to the safety of others.
Absolutely correct IMHO. If you want to be a missionary, be a missionary. If you want to go to Iraq as a missionary and get yourself killed or your fellow missionaries killed, that goes with the great commission. However, to go there as a Marine and then endanger your fellow Marines or their mission on the assumption that any or all of them might want to convert those Iraqi pagan babies and Mesopotamian heathen bozos is very peculiar reasoning.
Agreed completely. It shows disregard and arrogance. And lack of understanding of “evangelist marketing strategies” (you know...religion at gunpoint...blood on one’s hands...that whole invading the country thing)
Here is the Free Republic Thread about it when she first said it
I’m confident that the vast majority of the Iraqui people are cognizant of the fact that the soldier is carrying the gun because it is his job, and do not make the strained connection that you seem to make.
Sorry to disagree. While I don’t know the guy, and give him all the credit in the world for serving, what he did is just stupid.
In an area where people kill over stuff like that, I can’t imagine his fellow Marines thought that was a good idea.
If he wants to do that, let him serve his tour of duty, get out, and go back over as a missionary. That would take guts.
What he did was paint a target on himself and his buddies.
Read the article. They Iraqis present seemed to be making this strained connection not I.
While the Gov. cannot even seem to be evangelizing in Iraq, nor would that work or be Biblical, the sad thing is that even if Iraq becomes an “strategic US partner,” then like Afghanistan, it will still require the death penalty for those who convert to Christ for Islam.
“Photographs of the coins, which were inscribed with phrases in Arabic, were widely distributed via cell phones in Fallujah.”
Yet i pray such may work toward the salvation of some.
“and were seen by an Associated Press employee.” This is the news agency that equated the Bible to toilet paper, and likened Pentecostals who burned some Harry Potter books to Nazi’s.
I cannot believe some of the responses I see on this thread approving of this. This is appalling.
Do I read you correctly that you see all of them as hopeless Serpent Seed?
Especially if you are a heathen AP reporter....
When peace time comes, let the evangelists try to save some Iraqi souls.
Might work for a few, even if they risk death. Now is not the time.
The article gives us the outrageously biased view of an AP reporter, not the Iraquis.
I see your point of view, and I am not sure I would have a problem with someone who was working with people he had a personal relationship over there, guiding them, etc.
But to stand out there in crowds doing this is irresponsible to your mates. They want to do their duty and get back home with a minimum of fuss and in one piece regardless of if they are practicing Christians or anything else.
I could seriously see some of his fellow Marines laying into him for that. Any Marines on this thread want to give an opinion?
When was the time for the thief on the cross?
Some folks still think Abu Ghraib was nothing more than panties on the head, too ... when in fact it was a powerful recruiting tool for the bad guys, and helped to fuel an insurgency that left a lot of Americans dead.
The fact is that things like this matter: I have to think that the partnership between Americans and the Sunnis is pretty tenuous -- and this is just the sort of thing that would make it more tense.
Yeah, I’m sure it went over well with the Iraqis.
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