Posted on 06/02/2008 12:57:45 PM PDT by Free ThinkerNY
Sen. John McCain was wrong to reject the endorsement of Texas evangelist Rev. John Hagee.
Several years ago the Rev. Hagee delivered a sermon that was caught on tape in which he preached, "Then God sent a hunter. A hunter is someone with a gun, and he forces you. Hitler was a hunter. How did it happen? Because God allowed it to happen. Why did it happen? Because God said, 'My top priority for the Jewish people is to get them to come back to the land of Israel."
Anyone hearing the tape would conclude that Hagee is hostile to the Jews, but nothing could be further from the truth. He and his congregants are among Israel's strongest supporters. For religious reasons, they want Israel to rule supreme over all of the lands that made up the ancient Jewish kingdoms of Israel and Judea.
Evangelicals believe that the Messiah — Jesus Christ — cannot return to the earth until the Jews return to the land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael), they having been expelled by the Romans in 70 AD after the Second Temple, the one built by Herod, was destroyed.
Christian fundamentalists believe that every word of the Old and New Testaments represents the will of God. Other Christians believe that the words were inspired by God, but written by humans, and therefore are fallible.
Still others believe that the Bible, while sacred, is comprised of ancient myths and allegories and is intended to teach.
Hagee, being a fundamentalist, believes that each word is the word of God, and that everything that occurs on Earth happens as a result of God's direction. Events caused by people like Hitler, for some fundamentalists, are explained as a punishment visited by God on Jews who had fallen away from the faith...
(Excerpt) Read more at newsmax.com ...
I, for one, like the Reverend.
Psychotic.
A Nazi in a field leans forward slightly as he aims a Mauser into the back of a woman’s head standing about 10 feet away. Her terrified little child runs into her arms a split second before the bullet is fired. The most chilling photo I have ever seen. Hagee says that this was God’s plan. Interesting.
Me too. Although, “If I knew God I’d be Him”.
That's painting with a broad brush. Only some Evangelicals believe this and not necessarily the majority. Primarily the dispensationalists. This whole article makes other similar incorrect overbroad assertions.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son.
The Problem of Evil is a vexing one.
However, as a Christian, I believe that God uses unspeakable evil to create ETERNAL good. We are taught that life is not a dot, it is a line that stretches into infinity. Whatever bad happens in the “dot” is outweighed by the perfection of the future events awaiting His children. That’s how I can somewhat grasp what happens on this earth and how it relates to God’s character and will. I don’t know if I agree completely with Hagee but I know he is NOT an anti-Semite, for certain.
This is called the doctrine of Providence and it's only 4000 years old, going back to Noah. While I don't agree with the way Hagee uses the doctrine it's not like he pulled it out of thin air. I'm also not sure how the author classifys Hagee as a fundamentalist. I've yet to meet a fundamentalist who believes in dual covenant theology.
Isn't this tv preacher one who wants Israel to be in place, for some end times shenanigans?
Not this evangelical.
It is tragic to realize that so many people have not yet seen the Light.
Turn off the TV for one entire day. Write an essay on what life means to you, and what, in your heart of hearts, you want it to be.
Whether you know it or not, there have been numerous miracles in your life.
Listen carefully to that still small Voice which Satan constantly dreams up ways to muffle.
If you can hear that Voice, you may be surprised to find that you are so completely loved by our wondrous Triune God!
And you will be thrilled to learn that He has unbelievably wonderful plans for you, if you will turn from sinful ways and invite Him into your hearts.
All of a sudden he is middle of the road , 'Mr. In Between"
Thats why Mccain is having trouble finding a message! LOL.
Maybe his running mate will have one.
“I, for one, like the Reverend.” ~ TexasCajan
Why - because he has a nice personality? :)
http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2007/10/18/jesus-did-not-come-to-be-the-messiah/
Exactly.
You think that wonderful plan includes killing six million Jews to prod the survivors into moving to the middle east?
Psychotic.
I have wondered why an omnipotent, omniscient God could allow such suffering and evil to exist or even thrive, but there is no way I could ever comprehend God and God’s plan. If I truly believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient, then I believe that there is nothing that happens that God doesn’t know about nor allow, whatever God’s purpose or plan might be. Free will means choices, actions and consequences. Christianity promises forgiveness.
Didn’t God consign millions of his people into slavery as part of his redemptive plan? Didn’t God have Joseph’s brothers sell him into slavery and didn’t Joseph specifically say God used this evil to accomplish good. While I don’t think God is giving Pastor Hagee any personal special revelation as to what his intentions were, the concept of God using evil to accomplish good is very Biblical.
There are likely no words that would really satisfy our minds with the reason evil exists. The radical atheists conclude its very existence is proof God doesn’t exist. We somehow know different.
However, the Bible clearly sets out that He is the creator of everything ex nihilo, including evil. Either that or someone else brought something out of nothing and has creative powers equal to His. I don’t find that in the Book.
And, your perception that nothing happens in history that He does not manage, is also true according to the Scriptures. So, (get set to beat me sensless) free will as we think of it, is even managed according to the Scriputres. Trot out the proof-texts to prove otherwise if you wish, but there are ten thousand episodes of God managing all of man’s affairs (and Scriptural statements stating this unequivocally). I would include in this those who are granted faith and those who are reserved for destruction.
If anyone would like to conduct a rational discussion of this matter, I would be willing. But, put the flame throwers down, first.
I don’t know if I agree completely with Hagee but I know he is NOT an anti-Semite, for certain.”
______________________________________
Ditto here.
His reasoning falls short in that Scripture does not mandate or command the return of the Jews, but that the end time will follow their return. The problem with the above statement is that God’s time is not our time and that we are to be ready at any time for the return - also, the matter of free choice being a divine gift means He takes our actions, good and bad, and uses them for His purposes.
Illustration of magnifying God's glory:
John 9 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]
John 9
Jesus Heals a Man Born Blind
1As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth. 2His disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?”
3”Neither this man nor his parents sinned,” said Jesus, “but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life. 4As long as it is day, we must do the work of him who sent me. Night is coming, when no one can work. 5While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”
6Having said this, he spit on the ground, made some mud with the saliva, and put it on the man's eyes. 7”Go,” he told him, “wash in the Pool of Siloam” (this word means Sent). So the man went and washed, and came home seeing.
8His neighbors and those who had formerly seen him begging asked, “Isn't this the same man who used to sit and beg?” 9Some claimed that he was.
Others said, “No, he only looks like him.”
But he himself insisted, “I am the man.”
10”How then were your eyes opened?” they demanded.
11He replied, “The man they call Jesus made some mud and put it on my eyes. He told me to go to Siloam and wash. So I went and washed, and then I could see.”
12”Where is this man?” they asked him.
“I don't know,” he said.
Emphasis added.
Me too. I'd take Hagee over McCain anytime and twice on Sunday.
High Volume. Articles on Israel can also be found by clicking on the Topic or Keyword Israel. or WOT [War on Terror]
----------------------------
********************
Anyone who claims to know the Mind of God is arrogant beyond belief.
Hagge’s statement was portrayed by the ‘media for Obama’ as anti-Jewish. That’s funny since it is a quote from the OT and it is what many religious Jews believe.
>You think that wonderful plan includes killing six million Jews to prod the survivors into moving to the middle east?
Psychotic.<
It is psychotic to twist the words to mean what you want them to mean, NOT what Pastor Hagee meant.
>I have wondered why an omnipotent, omniscient God could allow such suffering and evil to exist or even thrive.<
Satan wields much power on this planet. Unfortunately, he has many followers.
Men have been created with free will. God has nothing to do with evil. Thank Him for the will of America and her allies in defeating the inhumane Nazi monsters.
See post #31.
I'm not following how this post relates to what I've previously posted. Are you saying God does not use evil to accomplish good?
I trust most of the evangelicals about as much as I trust the political parties, and that’s basically not at all. When a church is more interested in telling me why I’m going to hell for not living the way they say, than in love, and tolerance, and service, then they don’t get any trust or attention from me.
Any evangelical who can say Hitler was God’s plan, or God’s punishment on anyone, in my opinion is the same kind of monster that Ahmadinejad and other Muslims are. They all preach the same kind of hate, and wish for the same kind of control over people.
No, no, no. God allows free will, and mankind can fall into the deepest evil, like the Holocaust. But it is written that God can make all things work together for those that love God.
The Holocaust was not ordained, it was the work of evil men, but out of the slaughter houses, the state of Israel arose. Don't ever think the Holocaust was God's will, that was man's free will run wild.
I am saying that I do not believe that God creates evil. He may inspire goodness to come out of evil, but I do not think He causes evil.
I would be inclined to agree but Rev 17:17 causes problems.
So do you believe in God or not? If you do, then is God powerless to stop this event? If you don't, perhaps you need to open your mind a bit more. If Evil exists, does God allow it to exist or is evil part of God's will? When God directed Satan to put Job through pain and trial, why did God do this? Meanness? Vanity?
What’s the difference between God causing something vs. allowing it to occur even though he had the power to prevent it? God’s will can be both passive or active.
Read the book of Job. God did not direct that punishment on Job and his family, he allowed satan to do what he did with the exception of not killing Job.
Job remained faithful, and was rewarded with much more than he had lost during satan's testing time.
What about God specifically making the 10 end times kings give their power to the Beast. This resulted in substantial evil, but ultimately to a greater purpose. Rev 17:17
It goes like this, God can have us all behave and do right, but then He has a race of robots. IOW, we all say we love Him, but we have to because we don't have any choice.
Instead, we have a choice, and it's broken His heart many times (read about Noah, for instance).
Hagee’s a semi literate old fool. He’s a Catholic hating bigot and this Catholic is sick and tired of being nice to his ilk. He and his brethren can all go straight to h@ll for all I care. McCain and every other serious political contender should distance themselves from fanatical fools like him.
Remember, we talking about God who created the sun, the moon, the earth, and all the stars in every galaxy. If you don't believe God is that powerful then the discussion is over. If you do believe that God is that powerful, then why do you question him?
I haven't questioned him at all. Again why does he specifically make the 10 end times kings increase the power of the Beast?
Do you even understand logic? Allowed? Directed? If I allow my Dog to bite you, you sue me. Right. Gees.
In the end times it is written that sin will be approaching that of the days of Noah, which should tell you a lot about how bad those days were compared with our present times. In the end times, man's depravity will be such that God's holiness can't put up with anything more.
Do you understand logic? If something terrible happens to me, then I sue God? Right? Not possible, of course, but I'll blame God anyway if a tornado hits my house. He sent the tornado and He ought to pay for it.
God isn't responsible for your dog biting someone, it's your fault that the dog bit me. But we aren't dogs, and God expects us to live responsible lives. It doesn't guarantee that misfortune won't happen, it just means that we are expected to do our best in spite of it.
I understand that. But that doesn’t explain why God chooses to use his power to increase the Beast’s capacity for evil. Further, God allows Satan to exist in this world as the Prince of the air. He could destroy Satan right now without affecting our capacity for free will. I’m not questioning it, the clay doesn’t question the potter. But I will always seek to better understaned God’s actions so I can better serve him.
Again, it's like wanting to see who really loves you. If there were no tempter, Adam and Eve would still be in the garden. We were created to love God, but a race of untempted robots would be a farce. God wants your heart, soul and body, but only your choosing Him in the face of a sinful, very tempting world means anything.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.