Posted on 06/02/2008 1:55:29 PM PDT by Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus
Unfortunately for the most part the teachers didn't seem to see what was going on or at least not to care (they may have just written it all off as "boys will be boys").
One of the scariest things about Stephen King's It (1990) was the way the adults just stood around and let terrible things happen. I think that's one reason that movie scared me so much--it hit too close to home. (It certainly wasn't the giant wolf spider! Who doesn't love wolf spiders?)
That said, have these folks confronted the bishop? Have they attended the school board meetings? Have they made a noise? Have YOU and other board members called this embarassing situation to the attention of the parish, or the bishop? I would think that by child six or seven, the actual number of families with that many children would be negligible and the diocese could afford to take up the slack.
It is sort of a vicious cycle, because without the large families and consequent vocations most dioceses have had to start hiring lay teachers and that has increased their expenses a great deal - not only salaries at market but benefits for the teachers AND their families.
I would think that with nine, they could homeschool efficiently. And a wife's income, if it's a third job, is generally mostly eaten up with the additional taxes, the transportation, and the clothing and materials required.
My point is that families who are really stuck in a situation where they absolutely MUST use the public school system are few and far between. And if I were, I would seriously consider MOVING. We got the heck out of the city of Atlanta for precisely that reason.
My own small town jr. and sr. high school experience was that it didn't make any difference. To quote "The Twilight Zone," "people are alike all over."
I don't imagine people are different at rural schools either.
ComputerWorld had a recent article on "Aspie's in IT". They referred to it as the "dark secret". Apparently it is pretty common. Some of the brightest, most productive people in IT are "Aspies". Many of them have no social life...and don't give a rat's ass about social standing.
They, (we, since I'm one too), usually have no social life because the social stuff "we just don't get" because it is another language which we don't see or hear, let alone understand. I've come to understand that it is genetic and built in to our brains. We try to cope, we try to work at it to make up for what comes naturally to others. But what is social recreation for others is work for us.
If there are only a hundred kids per grade and the culture is that bad, then it’s time for you and your neighbors to vote the school board out and get some folks in there who are willing to do their job.
As Z.C. wrote -- it is like that all over. And we've tried to replace the school board members but finding people to run for the board who are not either insiders or clueless is very hard, and having them win is harder. Last fall we had such a candidate -- she lost to an insider who denied the seriousness of the problems. The voters don't like messengers who bring bad news.
Our precinct, with only a few hundred voters, was able to throw out Billy McKinney (yes, THAT Billy McKinney) from a district with 4 or 5 thousand active voters. And we ran a carpetbagger from Tennesee because he was the only one who was willing to try.
This was what I went through in elementary school. But by high school, I had discovered that what kids really love is snide humor. They wanted a Lenny Bruce (yes, this was that long ago) and I was their man.
High school is when the jocks, except for the tiny minority who will go pro, are at the peak of their lifetime popularity. By the 20-year reunion, they will be selling used cars while you will be in the corner with the other nerds, talking about mutual funds.
I just lov your Nat!!!!!!!!
It's more a matter of back then, our sports didn't exist. Nobody hiked back then, and there was no skiing in Los Angeles.
No, you're a geek if you compose the map in Photoshop on your Apple laptop.
I was a member of a group of four guys. All four of us were very good athletes. I was probably the best of the bunch, played all sports and went to college on an athletic scholarship. Two of us were very popular, one was not popular but was a great guy. He wasn't real smart but we all liked him and still do. I was not at all popular.
I scored a perfect score on all sections of the Florida Senior Placement Test except for verbal ability which I think was at the 83rd percentile. Despite this, my grades were only average.
I think I had poorly developed social skills. I could and did hang out with the most popular guys but was painfully shy around the most popular girls. Despite this, I eventually married one of the real beauties. She had a near perfect record in College, often being named outstanding student in her department. She was also a high school queen. Years later I eventually got over my shyness.
I think I would have been a nerd, despite hanging out with the "A" types.
I wrote you a big long reply, but somehow, it was consigned to data hell. I'm too lazy to reproduce it.
Oh, well.
In any event - real quick:
“But such parents are in a distinct minority, and you and I both know that.”
I really don't know that. I only know the folks I know.
“That said, have these folks confronted the bishop?”
Two problems - our archbishop is more of a Democrat than a Catholic; it costs a lot to run a school in an area where the median home price is around a half-million bucks. Add in the loss of nuns and priests as teachers for good measure.
“I would think that with nine, they could homeschool efficiently.”
Yup.
“And a wife's income, if it's a third job, is generally mostly eaten up with the additional taxes, the transportation, and the clothing and materials required.”
Not so yup. I know more than a few couples where the wife makes upper five figures. Tough to give up that additional $60,000 - $80,000 per year.
“My point is that families who are really stuck in a situation where they absolutely MUST use the public school system are few and far between.”
Maybe in the suburbs of Atlanta, that's clearer. Not as clear here in the suburbs of Washington, DC.
“And if I were, I would seriously consider MOVING. We got the heck out of the city of Atlanta for precisely that reason.”
That has consequences, too. I know a family who moved to York, PA. Big house at 1/3 the price. Catholic schools - 1/2 the price. Wife doesn't even need to work. Commute - 2 hrs each way to his job in DC area.
Ouch.
sitetest
We are centrally located, and have folks from all over the state stationed here.
The folks from the far corners of GA (and it's the largest state east of the Mississippi - longest commute to Atlanta is about 6 hours) generally rent an efficiency apartment in town (Atlanta rentals are way overbuilt and very cheap), and set up a long-weekend schedule. If you telecommute two days a week, you have Thurs-Sun (or Fri-Mon) at home and Mon-Wed (or Tues-Fri)at work. Most folks work long hours at the office to compensate.
Just an example of thinking outside the box. And before you say "his employer won't allow that!" -- our employer didn't used to allow that. Now it does. A bunch of folks got together and sold the idea to management.
It's my experience that most folks whine without moving heaven and earth to DO something (and sometimes you need to move heaven and earth). The first thing I would explore with 5 or 6 kids is teaching at the parochial school in exchange for reduced or no tuition. A mom with that many kids can manage a classroom on her head. Forget the bennys - have the husband pick those up. School gets a free teacher, the kids get an education. I'd do my best to sell that one to the bishop, democrat or not!
This part really struck me: A woman I know says that in high school she liked nerds, but was afraid to be seen talking to them because the other girls would make fun of her.
I had a huge crush on a nerd my junior and senior year of high school. We went to school all 12 years together. I never told anyone. I wasn't part of the popular rowdy crowd, but the popular preppy, yuppie, semi-arty crowd (I think they let me hang out with them because I was funny).
Anyway, Brian (my crush) wasn't particularly attractive in the classic sense, but he seemed so mature and even though he was probably just as insecure as the rest of us, he had a quiet confidence about him that I thought was so cool. While the other boys were making fart jokes, he and his friends talked about physics and things way over my head, but was I fascinated! I flirted with him so subtly that I don't even think he knew. I prayed he would ask me to prom, but he didn't. He was so smart that I'm sure he's doing something benefiting mankind while I am sitting on my couch watching hockey.
Telecommuting is very popular in the Washington area. As are 4/5 day work weeks - work 9 hours per day, get to take Friday off every other week. A few folks do 4 10-hr days per week, but many employers don't like missing one day per week of professional staff. As an employer, I wouldn't go for it - it would make it very difficult to get all our work covered - which by necessity happens over the course of five days each week - without hiring more staff.
But most folks still have to go to the office most days most weeks.
“The first thing I would explore with 5 or 6 kids is teaching at the parochial school in exchange for reduced or no tuition.”
Catholic school teachers do receive reduced tuition here. But not everyone can be a teacher. Not saying they can't do it. But in a school of 300 kids, they don't need 50 - 75 teachers. And the schools can't hire all parents of their students.
Even if they could, though, my son's high school has a faculty of about 60, but has 1,000 students representing in the range of about 800 families.
I can assure that tuition represents a burden for more than 15% of those families.
“It's my experience that most folks whine without moving heaven and earth to DO something (and sometimes you need to move heaven and earth).”
Well, I've seen enough folks make enough effort that I'm not so willing to assume that most are in some way derelict. Remember, too, not everyone has the same amount of: intelligence; courage; heart; will; strength; energy.
Some folks are blessed with an overabundance of all of these. Most aren't.
sitetest
What about baseball, soccer, tennis,....?
Of course, not everyone can teach, but in the lower grades anybody who can manage children efficiently and keep them amused can do so -- and a mother of 6 or 9 is eminently qualified! I'm not a good child manager, but I have a strong theatrical background and as a substitute I kept them off balance and entertained . . . . Private school loved me, when I was between jobs I applied to the public school to work as a sub, but they didn't want me, no edumakashun degree. Idiots.
And tuition is ALWAYS a burden, especially with paying all the inflated public school taxes too. That's why we moved to a county with lower school tax millage rates (and a very favorable sliding scale on taxes for older citizens, a category we are approaching more rapidly than we like).
If your employees showed you how they could have the work covered and have the necessary staff on call without hiring more folks (or maybe with having the ladies with children at home job-share) you might go for it. We are all professionals, too, and we get our work done. In fact, our department is leading the pack in meeting our goals (and we have absolute deadlines that cannot be fudged) although ALL of us telecommute two days a week.
“I would think that the qualified parents with the most kids (more little Catholics!) would get first crack at the teaching positions that come open.”
As I pointed out, even if EVERY teaching position were given to a parent of a student, typically, that would only take care of perhaps 6% of the families in a school. There are more families than that with more than three or four children.
However, the strength of many of the Catholic schools in this area is that a significant percentage of their faculty have been there for a long time. Thus, for a school to maintain this strength, even fewer families could be accommodated by hiring one of the parents. Perhaps 2% - 3%. The rest are out of luck.
“And tuition is ALWAYS a burden, especially with paying all the inflated public school taxes too. That's why we moved to a county with lower school tax millage rates (and a very favorable sliding scale on taxes for older citizens, a category we are approaching more rapidly than we like).”
That's nice. My county is a “low-tax” county in Maryland, comparatively speaking. I still pay $5,000 in property taxes (if I owned a house of similar value one county over, my property taxes would be $10,000 - $16,000), and the top income tax rate is over 8%. And, of course, we also now have a 6% sales tax. And our real estate recordation fees and transfer taxes are among the highest in the nation.
Until you get out to the far exurbs of Pennsylania or West Virginia, or southern Virginia, Washington, DC is a very expensive place to live.
“If your employees showed you how they could have the work covered and have the necessary staff on call without hiring more folks (or maybe with having the ladies with children at home job-share) you might go for it.”
If they could square a circle, I'd go for that, too. The difficulty for us is that we see clients every day and do work on their sites, and clients like to be seen between 9 am (8 am at the earliest) and 5 pm. Many of our clients won't have us in before 8 am or 9 am, and many won't let us stay after 5 pm or 6 pm.
Thus, it's really tough to get 10-billable-hour days out of our work.
As well, it's a lot tougher to respond to emergency calls when we have fewer staff available each day of the week.
Although no one formally "telecommutes," many tasks can be done remotely, and thus, staff members are free to work from home when they can. But it is tough to schedule an entire day at home, and it's even tougher to create schedules and routines around remotely-performed tasks.
sitetest
It definitely isn't the "real world". I had a sophomore year followed by a senior year. All that required was some petitioning of the school board to define a "senior" by the number of credits completed vs the number of semesters attended. The same standard applied at the college level. That change enabled 30 people to graduate a year early. I was able to attend UCSD instead of another year at a public high school.
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