Posted on 06/02/2008 7:31:32 PM PDT by Flavius
Lithium-ion batteries are both a blessing and a curse when it comes to mobile electronics
The topic of exploding lithium-ion batteries has been debated to death in the wake of massive battery recalls over the last couple of years. Amidst the deft public relations maneuvering and finger-pointing, however, the question as to why they explode in the first place is still shrouded in mystery for many.
The most important thing to understand here is that lithium-ion technology is considerably more volatile compared to other forms of rechargeable battery technologies. Defects in the insulating membrane can result in a mini-explosion that rips a battery open to release steam in excess of 600 degrees Fahrenheit.
BlackBerry Curve battery: Cells made in Japan, but assembled where? (Source: Paul Mah)
The trick? The Tesla Roadster is powered by 6,831 rechargeable lithium-ion batteries – the same cells that run a laptop computer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWq6rWzChw
I’ve raised this issue many a time.
Bad enough when a laptop battery explodes, at least you can jump up and run away. You may not be able to do that in a car.
"In case of fire where lithium ion batteries are present, flood the area with water. If any batteries are burning, water may not extinguish them, but will cool the adjacent batteries and control the spread of fire. CO2, dry chemical, and foam extinguishers are preferred for small fires, but also may not extinguish burning lithium ion batteries. Burning batteries will burn themselves out. Virtually all fires involving lithium ion batteries can be controlled with water. When water is used, however, hydrogen gas may be evolved which can form an explosive mixture with air. LITH-X (powdered graphite) or copper powder fire extinguishers, sand, dry ground dolomite or soda ash may also be used. These materials act as smothering agents.
"Fire fighters should wear self-contained breathing apparatus. Burning lithium ion batteries can produce toxic fumes including HF, oxides of carbon, aluminum, lithium, copper, and cobalt. Volatile phosphorus pentafluoride may form at a temperature above 230° F."
whos going to be carrying that in their green car
Lemme guess: the Li-Ion batteries would be made in China...
Lithium Ion batteries burn when they are crushed. A bad crash between a Tesla and a gas-powered vehicle is a recipe for an ugly fire.
China BAK to supply Li-ion batteries for HP notebooks
Posted : 15 Aug 2007 Add to Favorites Print Version Email Send inquiry
Intersil Corporation
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Lithium-based battery maker China BAK Battery Inc. has signed a non-binding letter of intent with Hewlett-Packard Co., under which both parties will partner to reach a definitive agreement for BAK to supply Li-ion battery cells to HP.
http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800475813_765245_NT_799a043b.HTM
And how much does each of these batteries weigh?
What kind of batteries dose the Prius use?
. The Prius they ran around still uses the Prius’s current nickel-metal hydride battery packs—a pair, actually, with the charging system jimmied in between them—though Toyota hopes to switch to lithium ion,
I'm still waiting for the horror stories of the hazmat clean ups, and thermal runaways, that are bound to happen with these hybrids sooner or later.
Pretty hard to do also when the gas in a fuel tank explodes. Looks like its a risk, no matter what you drive.
( of course if we wish to be totally risk averse, we can always let big brother take care of it for us (-sickly grin-)
you have a gasoline powered cellphone in your pocket
LOL
Ever see a BA5598 after it got wet?
Batteries of all kinds can be dangerous....
No, I’m just happy to see you.
August 6, 2009: "A test run of Tesla's new offshore racing hydroplane goes horribly wrong"
Could be worse, though:
It is BS for the industry to steal Nikola Tesla’s name this way.
If he had his way, there would be no battery in the car, you’d be using wireless current.
Those are some stupid kids.
well that whole free energy in capitalist society did not fly to well
So whadaya get with two gas powered vehicles? Ugly fire times 2.
Lithium cells are prone to outgassing, bursting and catching fire when the CHARGER malfunctions. (They do not emit steam, however.) This bursting hazard is a serious problem for Li-Ion and Li-Polymer cells. We model airplane builders use Li-Polymer cells a lot, because they are very light and have a high energy density. But we have to use great care - many cars and garages have been set alight by the little widgets.
They are NOT suitable for a car, and not because of the fire hazard. The fact is, their performance is drastically reduced by low temperatures, so unless you live in the South, you would not like them. They also require a very slow charge cycle - fast charging is a fiery no-no.
Prius uses Nickel-Hydride cells. Heavier, but a very reliable technology. Disposal is a problem - they are considered Haz-Mat when spent, so must be collected and recycled.
Latest tech is Lithium Iron (A123) and Lithium Manganese, (Saphion) cells, both of which are proving VERY capable, have little or no fire hazard, and can be recharged very fast. You can already buy them in battery packs for portable power tools. A little heavier per unit of power than Li-Polymer, but safe. THESE you may find in cars pretty soon.
Does anyone know what kind of battery is in the 2007 or 2008
Saturn Vue Hybrid? Are Saturns really made completely of fiberglass with no metal on the body?
Interesting to know. What is their half-life for energy output assuming a daily recharge?
Where I work has a contract with Dell for laptops. The batteries in the laptops are similar, I would guess, to these. They have an expected lifetime of 1-2 years of use. It would suck to have to replace all 6,000 batteries (at about $100 each from Dell) after a year...
http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?article_id=218392803
What was the yield of that sucker?
Nice knowin’ ya!
;-)
Have you made your peace with God?
Each is about the size of a AA penlight battery.
The entire pack weighs slightly less than 1,000 lbs.
The Tesla Roadster Battery System
http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf
Not exactly the same.
The cells used in the Tesla Roadster all have an internal positive temperature coefficient (PTC) current limiting device. The primary role of this PTC is to limit short circuit current on an individual cell level. It is important to note that this device is completely passive and functions without any inputs from the rest of the battery pack systems.
A second level of protection is provided by the Current Interrupt Device (CID). Each battery cell used in the Tesla Roadster has an internal CID. These devices serve to protect the cell from excessive internal pressure. In such a case the CID will break and electrically disconnect the cell.
Cells used in the Tesla Roadster battery pack are all packaged in steel cans.
The battery pack is controlled internally by several embedded microprocessors that operate both when the battery pack is installed in the car, and when the pack is being transported. An example of a passive safety feature is the selection of Aluminum for our battery enclosure instead of plastic as in all laptop packs. The Aluminum provides greater structural strength in case of mechanical abuse tolerance and does not easily melt or burn.
In the Tesla Roadster battery pack, each of the thousands of cells has two fuses (one each for the cell’s anode and cathode). This results in tremendous safety benefits since a cell becomes electrically separated from the rest of the pack if either of its fuses blow (generally by a short circuit). In addition to cell fuses, each of the 11 battery modules has its own main fuse that guards against a short circuit across the complete module.
The Tesla Roadster Battery System
http://www.teslamotors.com/display_data/TeslaRoadsterBatterySystem.pdf
Edison conspired against Tesla’s Alternating Current as well. But today we use AC instead of DC in our homes.
BUMP!
Let me guess...
You drive a pickup which gets 8 mpg and are feeling miserable.
Am I close?
You drive a pickup which gets 8 mpg and are feeling miserable.
Am I close?
Better give your magic 8 ball another shake.
My HD XL1200C Sportster gets 40 mpg and can blow the doors of a Prius, and my Nissan Sentra SE-R Spec V gets 28 mpg and can do the same.
And all know that gasoline tanks are perfectly safe and never explode. /sarcasm.
Exactly. This article would make great material for John Stossel's "Are we Scaring Ourselves to Death?"
Well, the difference is that usually there is an outside factor in the gasoline explosion, a collision for example.
Not so for the battery. At least not a noticable outside force.
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