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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The Church is kind of stuck — having declared Iraq to not be a just war, to vote for either candidate with a chance of winning is to advance one or the other grave sin.


5 posted on 06/03/2008 3:35:23 PM PDT by steve-b (The "intelligent design" hoax is not merely anti-science; it is anti-civilization. --John Derbyshire)
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To: steve-b

There is no equivalence; on the one hand, abortion is an inherent evil, never to be justified in any case. War may or may not be just, but the decision is ultimately in the hand of civil authority, not the Church. While both the current pope and JP-II believed that the Iraq war was unjust, they do not have access to all the intelligence or strategic planning the Bush administration possessed


7 posted on 06/03/2008 3:45:01 PM PDT by I-ambush
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To: steve-b
But Ratzinger did write the following in 2004:

3. Not all moral issues have the same moral weight as abortion and euthanasia. For example, if a Catholic were to be at odds with the Holy Father on the application of capital punishment or on the decision to wage war, he would not for that reason be considered unworthy to present himself to receive Holy Communion. While the Church exhorts civil authorities to seek peace, not war, and to exercise discretion and mercy in imposing punishment on criminals, it may still be permissible to take up arms to repel an aggressor or to have recourse to capital punishment. There may be a legitimate diversity of opinion even among Catholics about waging war and applying the death penalty, but not however with regard to abortion and euthanasia.

9 posted on 06/03/2008 3:57:28 PM PDT by Chesterbelloc
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To: steve-b

B16 doesn’t want us to pull out either, per an article in the Catholic Register. We have a duty to safeguard the innocent there now and make sure things are ok before we leave. Which is what we’re doing.


20 posted on 06/03/2008 5:31:38 PM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: steve-b; wagglebee; Kevmo; narses

The Church is not stuck.

Proportionalism teaches that the loss or damage to souls that is caused by one “issue” causes that issue to take precedent over others if the number of lost/damaged souls from the one issue significantly exceeds the loss produced by the others.

So, if one was to put all the lives lost from, let’s say the Iraq War since its beginning, it does not equal the lives lost via abortion in just a couple of weeks.

Furthermore, the Iraq conflict is not black and white, cut and dry. Some believe justification exists for it, while others do not.

Abortion is intrinsically evil, while war is not intrinsically evil.

If you add fetal stem cell research, euthanasia, homosexual marriage, and scandalized children to the crimes against life, which most proaborts like Obama favor, the lives lost and/or damaged from the crimes against life by far outweigh the harmful effects of all the other injustices/indignities combined.

Proportionalism focuses on souls, not issues.


22 posted on 06/03/2008 6:25:30 PM PDT by fetal heart beats by 21st day (Defending human life is not a federalist issue. It is the business of all of humanity.)
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To: steve-b
Some within the Church have made prudential statements that OIF does not meet the just war criteria. Others in the Church have made prudential statements that OIF does indeed meet the just war criteria. There has been no Ex Cathedra statement condemning OIF as unjust.
27 posted on 06/03/2008 7:40:41 PM PDT by A.A. Cunningham
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