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Battle of Midway, June 4-7 1942
6-4-2008 | eekitsagreek

Posted on 06/04/2008 10:33:01 PM PDT by eekitsagreek

On this date back in 1942, one of the most decisive engagements in the history of naval warfare took place. The outnumbered and outgunned US Pacific Fleet took on the mighty Imperial Japanese Navy and came away with--as author Walter Lord would describe--an incredible victory.

Although the US was outnumbered, they had the advantage of reading the Japanese code traffic and knew that Midway was the target. On the morning of June 4, Japanese aircraft inflicted great damage on the island but luckily no American aircraft were caught on the ground. Many American fighters (Wildcats and Buffaloes) defending the island were lost. Midway-based strike aircraft made valiant attempts to attack the Kido Butai (Japan's main carrier task force) but failed to register a hit. Devastator torpedo bombers from the carriers Yorktown, Enterprise, and Hornet took very heavy losses but also failed to score.

At this point, despite the bravery and sacrifice of the American pilots, the US is losing the battle.

Then incredibly, as Zero fighters were flying at wavetop height, hunting the remaining torpedo bomber, US Navy Dauntless dive bombers from the Yorktown and Enterprise bore down undetected and scored hits on Kaga, Akagi, and Soryu.

With three flattops burning, the Hiryu was all that was left. Her planes managed to find the Yorktown and scored with three bombs. Her pilots thought for sure that Yorktown would sink as she went dead in the water. But Yorktown's crew thought otherwise as they were able to patch her up and get her moving again. Hiryu launched another strike and her planes found what looked like an undamaged carrier (Yorktown) and attacked, scoring two torpedo hits. Yorktown began to list and, fearing that she may capsize, was ordered abandoned. She would struggle to live (and take a torpedo from a Japanese sub) before finally sinking on June 7.

Meanwhile, Hiryu's pilots believe now that two US carriers are out of action. While preparing to laucnh a third strike, Dauntlesses from Enterprise and Yorktown (the latter having taken refuge aboard the former) found her and set her ablaze.

The loss of the four carriers of the Kido Butai would end Japan's Pacific ambitions and turned the tide in favor of the US.

From Walter Lord's book "Incredible Victory"....

“By any ordinary standard they were hopelessly outclassed. “They had no battleships, the enemy eleven. They had eight cruisers, the enemy twenty-three. They had three carriers (one of them crippled); the enemy had eight. Their shore defenses included guns from the turn of the century. “They knew little of war. None of the Navy pilots on one of their carriers had ever been in combat. Nor had any of the Army fliers. Of the Marines, 17 of 21 new pilots were just out of flight school - some with less than four hours’ flight time since then. Their enemy was brilliant, experienced and all-conquering. “They were tired, dead tired. The patrol plane crews, for instance, had been flying 15 hours a day, servicing their own planes, getting perhaps three hours’ sleep at night. “They had equipment problems. Some of their dive bombers couldn’t dive - the fabric came off the wings. Their torpedoes were slow and unreliable; the torpedo planes even worse. Yet they were up against the finest fighting plane in the world. “They took crushing losses - 15 out of 15 in one torpedo squadron … 21 out of 27 in a group of fighters … many, many more. “They had no right to win. Yet they did, and in doing so they changed the course of a war. More than that, they added a new name - Midway - to that small list that inspires men by shining example. Like Marathon, the Armada, the Marne, a few others, Midway showed that every once in a while ‘what must be’ need not be at all. Even against the greatest of odds, there is something in the human spirit - a magic blend of skill, faith and valor - that can lift men from certain defeat to incredible victory."


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: navair; navy
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1 posted on 06/04/2008 10:33:01 PM PDT by eekitsagreek
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To: eekitsagreek
Dauntless dive bombers during the battle.
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A pre-war view of USS Yorktown.
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2 posted on 06/04/2008 10:39:04 PM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: eekitsagreek


“God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.”

3 posted on 06/04/2008 10:41:31 PM PDT by BIGLOOK
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To: eekitsagreek
"the enemy had eight?"
4 posted on 06/04/2008 10:42:15 PM PDT by R W Reactionairy ("Everyone is entitled to their own opinion ... but not to their own facts" Daniel Patrick Moynihan)
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To: eekitsagreek

God Bless the United States Navy, for many have perished on the sea. Honor, Courage, Commitment… Rest in peace my long lost ship-mates.


5 posted on 06/04/2008 10:43:55 PM PDT by ArchAngel1983 (Arch Angel- on guard)
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To: ArchAngel1983

I pray with you! Duty’s call was well answered by those great sailors and aviators.


6 posted on 06/04/2008 10:57:24 PM PDT by Loud Mime (Fight Racism - Vote McCain! - sticker asking for a new paint job and windows)
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To: R W Reactionairy
"the enemy had eight?"

I wonder if Walter Lord used that number when taking into account not just the Kido Butai at Midway, but all Japanese carriers that were involved with the Midway operation in one way or another. Let' see: For the Midway attack:
Akagi
Kaga
Hiryu
Soryu

For the diversionary raid in the Aleutians at Dutch Harbor:
Junyo
Ryujo

OK...that gives us six flattops. There was one carrier Hosho that was with the group of battleships well west of the flattops. That gives us seven. With that group was a seaplane carrier Chiyoda that was used to transport midget subs. Perhaps that was what Walter was thinking?

7 posted on 06/04/2008 10:57:56 PM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: eekitsagreek
Here is a photo of a Wildcat that I took at an airshow many years ago. Great plane!
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8 posted on 06/04/2008 11:00:35 PM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: eekitsagreek
Also at this airshow was a Japanese A6M Zero fighter.
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9 posted on 06/04/2008 11:03:02 PM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: BIGLOOK
“God grant me the courage not to give up what I think is right even though I think it is hopeless.”

Amen.

10 posted on 06/04/2008 11:03:18 PM PDT by EternalVigilance (The new John McCain Whig Party - Because the ash heap still has room on it.)
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To: eekitsagreek
The film 'Midway' starring Charlton Heston is a must-see.

11 posted on 06/04/2008 11:08:31 PM PDT by Bobalu (What do I know, I'm a Typical White Guy)
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To: eekitsagreek
Photobucket
12 posted on 06/04/2008 11:13:41 PM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: R W Reactionairy
They had three carriers (one of them crippled); the enemy had eight.

Yes, all of them were not present. Some were in the Indian ocean and some were damaged at the battle of Coral Sea.

13 posted on 06/04/2008 11:17:12 PM PDT by verklaring (Pyrite is not gold)
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To: eekitsagreek

You are correct. I forgot the Aleutian campaign


14 posted on 06/04/2008 11:20:47 PM PDT by verklaring (Pyrite is not gold)
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To: eekitsagreek; BIGLOOK; EternalVigilance
The sun begin to set on the IJN at Midway.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}

15 posted on 06/04/2008 11:23:17 PM PDT by alfa6 (One mans magic is another mans engineering... L.L.)
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To: eekitsagreek
That looks correct: 4 of the 6 Pearl Harbor carriers: Akagi, Kaga, Hiryu, Soryu

2 in the Aleutians

Chiyoda

1 with the Main Fleet

Shokaku and Zuikaku (the other 2 Pearl Harbor strikers) were elsewhere. One was in the yard after taking some bomb hits at Coral Sea, the other had taken heavy airgroup losses at Coral Sea.

16 posted on 06/04/2008 11:25:29 PM PDT by mavfin
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To: BIGLOOK

Nimitz was a great overall commander of the Pacific fleet but what I have read is that it was Admiral Fletcher who was the true conqueror at the Battle of Midway. In naval history he is compared to Nelson of Battle of Trafalgar fame.


17 posted on 06/04/2008 11:28:46 PM PDT by 353FMG (What marxism and fascism could not destroy, liberalism did.)
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To: alfa6
The sun begin to set on the IJN at Midway.

I'm not so sure the sun ever really shone on the IJN. Maybe for an hour or two at most. Check out

http://www.combinedfleet.com/economic.htm

for a good write-up about what Japan was getting into even starting a war with the US, and what might have happened *even if Japan had won at Midway*. Regardless, it was a great victory, especially for the codebreakers, without whose help, our carriers would not have been lying in wait at Midway for the Japanese fleet.

18 posted on 06/04/2008 11:30:20 PM PDT by mavfin
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To: 353FMG
Admiral Fletcher You mean Spruance perhaps? Fletcher was basically taken out of fleet command functions after leaving the transports uncovered at Guadalcanal, and at Midway, he basically left it up to Spruance.
19 posted on 06/04/2008 11:32:29 PM PDT by mavfin
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To: eekitsagreek
Japan had six heavy carriers, all of which attacked Pearl Harbor. The 2 newest, Shokaku and Zuikaku, were damaged at Coral Sea in May 1942 and thus missed Midway.

http://www.friesian.com/pearl.htm
The Strike Force -- Kido Butai, -- would consist of the largest number of aircraft carriers ever to operate together. The Akagi and Kaga, a reconstructed battlecruiser and battleship, were the Japanese equivalent of the American Lexington and Saratoga. The Hiryu and Sôryu were the Japanese equivalent of the American Enterprise, Yorktown, and Hornet. The newest Japanese carriers, Shokaku and Zuikaku, were roughly the equivalent of the American Essex class. It was originally thought that the latter would not be ready for the operation.

20 posted on 06/04/2008 11:33:29 PM PDT by iowamark
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To: mavfin
Shokaku and Zuikaku (the other 2 Pearl Harbor strikers) were elsewhere. One was in the yard after taking some bomb hits at Coral Sea, the other had taken heavy airgroup losses at Coral Sea.

Shokaku was indeed damaged during the Coral Sea battle while Zuikaku's airgroup took quite a beating. Interesting how a new airgroup was not used so that Zuikaku could have been used at Midway. This in contrast to US Navy practice of switching airgroups aboard carriers. At Midway, several squadrons operating from Yorktown were from the Saratoga.

21 posted on 06/04/2008 11:39:17 PM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: mavfin
Fletcher was technically in charge. He was on the Yorktown and separated, from the other two carriers under Spruance. Yorktown had to be hastily repaired at and joined just before the battle.

Yorktown's aircraft took longer to return from recon patrols. Yorktown's was the carrier hit. Functionally, Spruance who commanded the other two in the place of Halsey, commanded the attack

22 posted on 06/04/2008 11:44:46 PM PDT by verklaring (Pyrite is not gold)
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To: mavfin

Ah yes I am very familar with Combined Fleet.com :-)

One point regards Japan and US production capablity. IIRC Grumman Aircraft Company by itself produced almost as many aircraft as all of Japan during WW-II!!!

The IJN was a tough foe and very well trained. The IJN aircraft, fleet and men were superior in most cases to the US Navy at the START of WW-II. Midway was a very near thing for the U.S. even with the codebreaking work of CMD Rochefort and the code gang at Pearl.

What must be considered is what would have happened had the US lost at Midway. Had the IJN vanquished the American Fleet and occupied Midway that would have left the US Navy with only two carriers, Saratoga and Ranger, with Ranger being a stretch. The first of the Essex class carriers were roughly 6 months out from being in service. .

The loss of Midway would have hampered the submarine campaign against Japan as the fleet subs used Midway as a topping off point for fuel and provisions both coming and going.

Without the use of Hornet and Enterprise the Guadalcanal campaign would probably not have been fought. With the Japanese occuping the Solomons the supply line to Australia is subject to interdiction. To prevent this is why Nimitz and the US launched the Guadalcanal Campaign.

Yes I do believe the the US Navy would have prevailed against the IJN eventually but it would have been a lot longer and bloodier campaign.

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


23 posted on 06/04/2008 11:46:56 PM PDT by alfa6 (One mans magic is another mans engineering... L.L.)
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To: eekitsagreek
Although the US was outnumbered, they had the advantage of reading the Japanese code traffic and knew that Midway was the target.

The decisive factor in the battle.

24 posted on 06/04/2008 11:50:40 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: mavfin
The sun begin to set on the IJN at Midway.

Glad we beat them back then, glad they are on our side nowadays as China continues to grow.

Coming in 2009, the new "Helicopter Carrying Destroyer" Hyuga.
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Hmmmm.....looks like she could carry more than just a few choppers. A few JSF's perhaps?

25 posted on 06/04/2008 11:51:28 PM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: eekitsagreek
They had three carriers (one of them crippled); the enemy had eight.

The maintainers at Pearl did a monumental job at getting the battle damaged Yorktown back into battle.

Oh, and the Japanese had 5 carriers at the battle of Midway.

26 posted on 06/04/2008 11:55:48 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel

Ok, stand corrected make that 4 carriers.


27 posted on 06/04/2008 11:59:08 PM PDT by Red Steel
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To: mavfin
Fletcher was basically taken out of fleet command functions after leaving the transports uncovered at Guadalcanal, and at Midway, he basically left it up to Spruance.

When you think of US admirals, Nimitz, King, Spruance and Halsey come to mind, but never Fletcher. Fletcher has received criticism for his actions, whether justified or not. There is a very good book on Fletcher that is worth reading.

28 posted on 06/05/2008 12:00:33 AM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: eekitsagreek

They thought of Fletcher enough to name a destroyer class after him.


29 posted on 06/05/2008 12:03:58 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: Red Steel
Yorktown undergoing repairs at Pearl Harbor just prior to Midway.
Photobucket

The men did one heck of a job patching her up, though she was not 100% at Midway.

30 posted on 06/05/2008 12:05:44 AM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: eekitsagreek

Frank Jack Fletcher, for whatever reason, suffered an incredible run of, for lack of a better phrase, bad luck.

IIRC, from Edwin Hoyt’s book on Nimitz, Adm King recalled Fletcher back to the States after Guadalcanal for a “chat”
It was after this evaluation that Fletcher eneded up on the beach more or less.

I will have to look up the name of the book when I get home from work in the am

Regards

alfa6 ;>}


31 posted on 06/05/2008 12:09:42 AM PDT by alfa6 (One mans magic is another mans engineering... L.L.)
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To: Red Steel
They thought of Fletcher enough to name a destroyer class after him.

The WWII Fletcher class destroyers were actually named after his uncle, Admiral Frank Friday Fletcher. As for Admiral Frank Jack Fletcher, a Spruance class destroyer is named in his honor.

32 posted on 06/05/2008 12:09:59 AM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: eekitsagreek

Learn something new everyday. ;-)


33 posted on 06/05/2008 12:26:03 AM PDT by Red Steel
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To: verklaring; eekitsagreek
The other advantage we gained from the Midway/Aleutian campaign was finding the "Akutan Zero" five weeks after the battle. The Akutan Zero had crashed more or less intact and was repaired. It was then flown against all of the american aircraft used in the Pacific.
34 posted on 06/05/2008 12:41:40 AM PDT by eeman
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To: eekitsagreek
Thank you for starting this thread. For some additional Midway comments and pictures here is a link to a Midway thread from few years ago. Self disclosure (and self vanity): It was my thread.
35 posted on 06/05/2008 1:08:01 AM PDT by eeman
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To: eekitsagreek

Shattered sword is awesome book on the battle of midway.


36 posted on 06/05/2008 1:34:43 AM PDT by StoneWall Brigade
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To: eekitsagreek

http://www.shatteredswordbook.com

http://www.combinedfleet.com

Some great web sites!


37 posted on 06/05/2008 1:37:54 AM PDT by StoneWall Brigade
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To: eekitsagreek
One more link: This is a Video of Torpedo Squadron 8 posted on Youtube. All members of Torpedo Squadron 8 who flew from the Hornet on that day perished, except for Ensign George Gay. The movie was orginally a memorial for their families. At about the three minute mark shows the Douglas TBD Devastators taking off from the Hornet on June 4, 1942 and was the last time the planes were seen
38 posted on 06/05/2008 1:58:17 AM PDT by eeman
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To: eekitsagreek; All
I've read about the Battle of midway from several souces / accounts and have seen the movie several times, not to mention the theater when it first came out.

All I can say is we were dang lucky then, extremely lucky, almost like, if not, Divine Intervention.

May God Bless those who fought and died in WWII....the World's Greatest Generation.

39 posted on 06/05/2008 2:12:31 AM PDT by RSmithOpt (Liberalism: Highway to Hell)
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To: mavfin
The battle of the Coral Sea also contributed to the victory at Midway. It put those two Japanese carriers (Shokaku and Zuikaku) out of action. The Japanese had planned to use those at Midway, and thought the Yorktown was too damaged to fight, leaving the US with only two carriers. The Japanese losses at Coral Sea coupled with the heroic efforts by the shipyard workers at Pearl Harbor on the Yorktown made the odds more even. Also, the Yorktown's sailing later than the Enterprise and Hornet caused confusion to the Japanese who expected all US carriers to be in one group.
40 posted on 06/05/2008 3:43:42 AM PDT by fredhead (4-cylinder, air cooled, horizontally opposed......THE REAL VW!!!)
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To: Bobalu
“The film ‘Midway’ starring Charlton Heston is a must-see.”

Two things about that film bug the heck out of me. First — the love story. Come on, does any man like that crap in a war movie? Ugh.

Second — the stock footage of the aircraft show Hellcats, Avengers, Helldivers — all of those were not in use in June 1942.

I always loved reading about what was done by the heroes of Midway, ever since I was a little kid. Those sailors and aviators were brave men and we all owe them.

41 posted on 06/05/2008 4:12:01 AM PDT by Londo Molari
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To: Vroomfondel; SC Swamp Fox; Fred Hayek; NY Attitude; P3_Acoustic; Bean Counter; investigateworld; ...
SONOBUOY PING!

Click on pic for past Navair pings.

Post or FReepmail me if you wish to be enlisted in or discharged from the Navair Pinglist.
This is a medium to low volume pinglist.

42 posted on 06/05/2008 4:35:37 AM PDT by magslinger (cranky right-winger)
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To: Londo Molari
Two things about that film bug the heck out of me. First — the love story. Come on, does any man like that crap in a war movie? Ugh.

The ladies' money is just as green, and the producers will alway try to pull anyone they can into the movie. Deal with it.
43 posted on 06/05/2008 5:26:19 AM PDT by Cheburashka (Liberalism: a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.)
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To: eekitsagreek
Just finished writing a novel about Midway, a counter-factual where the Japanese win and Halsey (not Spruance) barely escapes with a single carrier. Then the real action begins!

Still trying to sell it to a publisher. If I don't get a bite soon, I'll self publish under the title, "Halsey's Bluff."

44 posted on 06/05/2008 6:08:56 AM PDT by LS (CNN is the Amtrak of News)
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To: eekitsagreek

Oldie but goodie


If Midway had been reported by today's media.

Midway Island Demolished. Yorktown, destroyer sunk.

Many US planes lost

June 7, 1942

The United States Navy suffered another blow in its attempt to stem the Japanese juggernaut ravaging the Pacific Ocean. Midway Island, perhaps the most vital U.S. outpost, was pummeled by Japanese Naval aviators. The defending U.S. forces, consisting primarily of antique Buffalo fighters, were competely wiped out while the Japanese attackers suffered few, if any, losses.

In a nearby naval confrontation, the Japanese successfully attacked the Yorktown which was later sunk by a Japanese submarine. A destroyer lashed to the Yorktown was also sunk.

American forces claim to have sunk four Japanese carriers and the cruiser Mikuma but those claims were vehemently denied by the Emporer's spokeman.

The American carriers lost an entire squadron of torpedo planes when they failed to link up with fighter escorts. The dive bombers had fighter escort even though they weren't engaged by enemy fighters. The War Dept. refused to answer when asked why the fighters were assigned to the wrong attack groups. The Hornet lost a large number of planes when they couldn't locate the enemy task force. Despite this cavalcade of errors, Admirals Fletcher and Spruance have not been removed.

Code Broken

The failure at Midway is even more disheartening because the U.S. Navy knew the Japanese were coming. Secret documents provided to the NY Times showed that "Magic" intercepts showed the Japanese planned to attack Midway, which they called "AF".

Obsolete Equipment

Some critics blamed the failure at Midway on the use of obsolete aircraft. The inappropriately named Devastator torpedo planes proved no match for the Japanese fighters. Even the Avengers, its schedule replacements, were riddled with bullets and rendered unflyable. Secretary of War Stimson dodged the question saying simply: "You go to war with the Navy you have, not the Navy you want or would like to have". Critics immediately called for his resignation.

45 posted on 06/05/2008 6:11:27 AM PDT by Dilbert56 (Harry Reid, D-Nev.: "We're going to pick up Senate seats as a result of this war.")
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To: mavfin

Yep, you’re so right.


46 posted on 06/05/2008 8:35:26 AM PDT by 353FMG (What marxism and fascism could not destroy, liberalism did.)
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To: Dilbert56
If Midway had been reported by today's media.

This is so right on target.
47 posted on 06/05/2008 8:41:06 AM PDT by Antoninus (John 6:54)
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To: StoneWall Brigade
Shattered sword is awesome book on the battle of midway.

Hey there SWB! Glad to see you here. You are right, "Shattered Sword" is a great book. Another recent book on Midway that I recommend is "Midway Inquest". There is also another recent book that I have yet to read called "Midway, Dauntless Victory: Fresh Perspectives on America's Seminal Naval Victory of World War II". I have heard good reviews on this book.

Other titles:
"That Gallant Ship: USS Yorktown"
"A Glorious Page in our History"

Hey SWB, I won't be able to participate in a TSN thread the next few days, so please pass along my regards to TSN Queen for me please. Thanks!

Well...the Red Wings are chumps...er, champs once again. Oh well...their run is now over. It's time for the Hawks to dominate!! Take care my friend and I will chat with you soon again.

48 posted on 06/05/2008 11:12:14 AM PDT by eekitsagreek (Give me a Stanley Cup (or Amy Grant) PLEASE!)
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To: Londo Molari
Two things about that film bug the heck out of me. First — the love story. Come on, does any man like that crap in a war movie? Ugh.

Second — the stock footage of the aircraft show Hellcats, Avengers, Helldivers — all of those were not in use in June 1942.

Third - the battle scenes use stock overhead shots of 1950s-era angle-decked American carriers, which are supposed to be the straight-decked Japanese carriers. Technically, the picture is a complete mess.

A modern remake of "Midway" would be nice - if it could ever be done without re-inserting your first objection. ;)

49 posted on 06/05/2008 11:29:53 AM PDT by Mr. Jeeves ("One man's 'magic' is another man's engineering. 'Supernatural' is a null word." -- Robert Heinlein)
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To: eekitsagreek

The first turning point and a lot sooner than anybody thought. Stalingrad was the other main turning point.


50 posted on 06/05/2008 11:34:03 AM PDT by RightWhale (We see the polygons)
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