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We hate to love the US. . . but we do
The Dublin Sunday Tribune ^ | June 8, 2008 | Richard Aldous

Posted on 06/07/2008 6:19:23 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

MONEY can't buy you love.

This week George W Bush flies into Europe to mark the 60th anniversary of the Marshall Plan - the massive reconstruction effort that enabled western Europe to rise to prosperity from the ashes of the second world war.

The president's European tour, which will include a visit to Belfast, comes on the back of a YouGov poll published last week that reveals the extent of European hostility towards the US.

Asked "Do you think the United States is overall a force for good or evil in today's world?", an astonishing 43% of respondents said "force for evil."

Just 27% thought the US a 'force for good'.

The poll surveyed four western European nations - Britain, France, Italy and Germany - along with Russia.

Unsurprisingly, given the talk of a new 'cold war', hostility was greatest in Russia, where only 16% thought the US was a force for good.

At the other end of the spectrum, Italians were most positive about the role of America in the world, with 49%/27% split in favour of the US. Italy still prides itself on its 'special' transatlantic relationship. Almost 16 million Italian emigrants live in the US. Back home, the older generation still tend to be grateful for the role the US played in liberating Italy during the war and for the rebuilding that came afterwards.

In Britain, which has its own 'special relationship' with the US, the figures were a statistical dead heat at 33% and 35%.

Perhaps the most striking statistics of all are those for France and Germany. Despite the efforts of chancellor Angela Merkel and president Nicolas Sarkozy to rebuild their association with the United States in the wake of the war in Iraq, both countries remain deeply suspicious of what the French disparagingly call 'L'Hypuissance'. Of French respondents, only 28% thought America a force for good, In Germany the figure was lower still at 25%.

The unpopularity of the war in Iraq notwithstanding, it is difficult to take the 'forcefor-evil' sentiment in this data seriously. For the simple truth is that Europeans everywhere, including in Ireland, remain as in love with the American way of life as ever.

For months, the media and public alike have soaked up every last detail of the enthralling US primary season. (I bet more people can instantly recall the first name of Barack Obama's wife than that of Mrs Cowen. ) Check out the European music chart this week and you'll find US stars Madonna and Justin Timberlake at No 1. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and Sex and the City are the headline films in European cinemas.

Indiana Jones took a whopping $24.1m in UK box office receipts in its opening four days alone.

Lest we dismiss this as 'mere' popular culture, that dominance also comes in the traffic of serious ideas. As commentators such as Timothy Garton Ash frequently point out, Washington has at its fingertips a range and depth of policy analysis, in government, think tanks, universities and the media, which London has not matched for 50 years and no other European capital, least of all the EU 'capital' of Brussels, can begin to approach.

The energy and enthusiasm of that response to American politics, culture and ideas stands in stark contrast to the apathy with which we greet European affairs.

The referendum on the Lisbon Treaty has put Ireland at the heart of a crucial European debate this month, but you would be hard-pressed to know it.

For all the posters and occasional shouting matches on TV and radio, the public reaction has been one of boredom, bemusement and disinterest. Even Matt Cooper, who has been hosting a series of debates on the treaty, says he may not bother to vote.

Eurocrats such as EU president Jose Manuel Barroso would like to blame us for any lack of interest, but the reality is that Brussels consistently fails to engage the public imagination.

America on the other hand always does. And even those who seem to view the current administration as a 'force for evil' can take comfort from the words of that great 19th-century Americaphile, Alexis de Tocqueville.

"The greatness of America lies not in being more enlightened than any other nation, " he wrote, "but rather in her ability to repair her faults."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; Foreign Affairs; Germany; Politics/Elections; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: 60thanniversary; bush; election; elections; geopolitics; iraq; marshallplan; wwii
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How does Iraq affect Europe? Or is it just one more excuse for BDS and anti-Americanism?
1 posted on 06/07/2008 6:19:23 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

USA is the last best hope and the rest are corrupt and humanistic.


2 posted on 06/07/2008 6:22:19 PM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys--Reagan and Bush)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
How does Iraq affect Europe? Or is it just one more excuse for BDS and anti-Americanism?

I've worked for a large, German-owned and based pharmaceutical company for 15 years. I deal with German visitors from HQ to our Ohio offices. They don't like us. They didn't like us long before Iraq, and they won't like us 15 years after we leave Iraq. I really believe there's still a lot of resentment from WWII, and a ton of jealousy regarding our way of life. You have to see them shop to believe it. Almost like the sacking of Rome.

3 posted on 06/07/2008 6:29:38 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Asked "Do you think the United States is overall a force for good or evil in today's world?", an astonishing 43% of respondents said "force for evil."

Once Europe transitions to Eurabia, the dhimmified remaining non-mulsim population is gonna miss the USA big time!

4 posted on 06/07/2008 6:32:38 PM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We wouldn’t have had to go into Iraq if it wasn’t for Europe selling them all that weaponry and technology to make weapons. And there’s a pretty good chance they cleaned it all out before we came in too.

A little hypocritical I think.


5 posted on 06/07/2008 6:33:43 PM PDT by Free Vulcan (No prisoners. No mercy. Fight back or STFU!!!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
To: The Zeropeans

"view the current administration as a 'force for evil"

If it weren't for W's aggressive actions in the war on terror more than one European city would be smoldering in ruin today.


6 posted on 06/07/2008 6:34:31 PM PDT by I see my hands (_8(|)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

No European is going to admit to American exceptionalism. They are post-national, post-Christian, post-modern. They don’t understand our commitment to guns, to capital punishment (the horror!), to religion, to capitalism. That’s all so bourgeois and passe and provincial. We’re a bunch of rubes, cowboys like President Bush. Frankly, I don’t give a damn what they think.


7 posted on 06/07/2008 6:35:54 PM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

June 6, 1944 will never be repeated.


8 posted on 06/07/2008 6:36:45 PM PDT by Ciexyz
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Their media, and ours, have been on a seven year crusade to denigrate President Bush. If anyone was not in a position to see facts, rather than the constant barrage of propaganda, they would normally accept it. The old story of telling a lie often enough it becomes the truth.

A year ago or maybe longer, I read or heard a report where they gave a percentage of favorable articles versus unfavorable of network TV. CBS and NBC were in the single digits, while ABC had 0% positive stories about the President.

In other words, the negative rants are all the public sees.

Has any President in history been under assault as this one has??? I do believe this has been a deliberate and planned attack of the DNC, which has paid off for them in spades.

9 posted on 06/07/2008 6:37:33 PM PDT by elpadre
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To: 2ndDivisionVet; All

“Quite frankly Scarlett .. I don’t give a damn”

They only hate us until they’re in trouble - then they always expect America to come to the rescue - they should be more grateful that we do. But, thanks to the liberals, children are never taught of the many years America has sacrificed their best and brightest to save their sorry behinds.


10 posted on 06/07/2008 6:40:44 PM PDT by CyberAnt (Yon: "The U.S. military is the most respected institution in Iraq.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Screw Europe. In short fashion they will have ceded their soveriegnty and liberty to Islam. They don't reproduce while the Islamic immigrants do. That writing is on the wall.

And sooner or later they will come begging once again for America to pull their asses out of the embers. I hope my grandsons vote to tell them to get lost.

11 posted on 06/07/2008 6:43:26 PM PDT by jwalsh07 (El Nino is climate, La Nina is weather.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Most European non-gay men (there’s probably still some) are jealous of our guy’s sexual prowess during the last European war. They can vent, but it really doesn’t matter.


12 posted on 06/07/2008 6:48:59 PM PDT by Gothmog (I fight for Xev)
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To: elpadre

I agree; all the ‘self hate” of America that the main stream media pumps out, what it stands for and ANYTHING Republican or Conservative is racist, sexist, homophobic, etc., etc.... All that negativity feeds those who still watch the msm for their news.....<P Who comes to the rescue when one of Eurabias’ cities is attacked bigtime???Let them fend for themselves....


13 posted on 06/07/2008 6:51:18 PM PDT by cfrels
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To: elpadre

“Their media, and ours, have been on a seven year crusade to denigrate President Bush. If anyone was not in a position to see facts, rather than the constant barrage of propaganda, they would normally accept it. The old story of telling a lie often enough it becomes the truth.
A year ago or maybe longer, I read or heard a report where they gave a percentage of favorable articles versus unfavorable of network TV. CBS and NBC were in the single digits, while ABC had 0% positive stories about the President.

In other words, the negative rants are all the public sees.

Has any President in history been under assault as this one has??? I do believe this has been a deliberate and planned attack of the DNC, which has paid off for them in spades.”


Worth repeating. You nailed it.


14 posted on 06/07/2008 6:53:36 PM PDT by marktwain
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The question begs an answer. . .too bad this was not a multiple choice. And sad; that ‘evil’ was even a consideration.


15 posted on 06/07/2008 6:56:08 PM PDT by cricket (Damn Political Correctness; before it irretrievably, damns us all. . .)
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To: buccaneer81

You are right buccaneer, this is nothing new. I remember their contempt for Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter. They called Carter “that peanut farmer.” They hated Reagan and Bush regardless of what they did, and I had at one time thought that it was only confined to academe and their media, but not anymore. I believe these numbers in these polls. They are only confirmed by what I read in their newspapers today.

There was a time when I was learning history and was quite horrified by how long it took the US to join Europe in WWII.
The more I read the more I became convinced that our fathers and grandfathers knew precisely what they were doing. Europe has heaped scorn on the US and the American people since our birth, and then they wanted help? Really? And somehow they after all of the insults and abuse they felt entitled to that help too. Really?

If something were to happen in Europe today, I wouldn’t care a bit, nor demand that our government lift a finger to help them. American lives should never be sacrificed again for any European. The place could burn to the ground for all I would care.


16 posted on 06/07/2008 7:07:14 PM PDT by CremeSaver
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
How does Iraq affect Europe? Or is it just one more excuse for BDS and anti-Americanism?

Eurotrash leaders were getting fat doing business with Hussein, mostly under the table. Remember "Oil for Food?" We blew their little clusterf*ck all to pieces when the Marines and US Army instituted some "Change we can believe in" over there.

The wretched feather merchants have never forgiven us.

17 posted on 06/07/2008 7:09:19 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: I see my hands
If it weren't for W's aggressive actions in the war on terror more than one European city would be smoldering in ruin today.

You nailed it. Prevention is the second-most thankless job in the universe.

18 posted on 06/07/2008 7:11:48 PM PDT by Migraine (Diversity is great...(until it happens to YOU).)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The great emigration from Italy to America ended abruptly with the Immigration act of 1924, 84 years ago. I doubt their are 16 million born in Italy immigrants in the US today. More like a million. The 16 million figure is more likely the number of Americans with Italian ancestry.


19 posted on 06/07/2008 7:12:29 PM PDT by Gaetano
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To: elpadre
Has any President in history been under assault as this one has???

Richard Nixon. Worse.

20 posted on 06/07/2008 7:13:15 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: marktwain
in the late 70’s one of several hats I was wearing was that of professional recruiting for my industrial plant. I ran across a Russian Jew, a talented engineer who had immigrated to the US and whose sponsors were helping him and his gentile wife get located and employed. It took a while for them to learn English enough to be fully qualified and compensated, but eventually he did, and did well.

They told me the story of how the wife's family living in a small town was terribly upset, weeping and trying to get her to stay in Russia. Why?? Because all they knew of the US was violence on the streets, rape, etc. They learned that in school and American movies. They never were able to see the Sound of Music, only movies which painted the US unfavorably. That was a program of the Russian government. I suspect the same thing is widespread. What are we to expect??

21 posted on 06/07/2008 7:16:38 PM PDT by elpadre
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To: Gaetano

The US Census websites states that there are 604,000 foreign born Italian Americans. The rest are US born, about 15 million of those, me included :), you might call us U.S. Italian Americans.


22 posted on 06/07/2008 7:18:07 PM PDT by Gaetano
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Hind sight is 20/20.

In retrospect, Iraq has been a major Charlie Foxtrot for the U.S.

We all agreed that Hans Blix and Scott Ritter were lying about the weapons. Well, unless we can deliver the EVIDNECE that they exist or existed, we look like idiots.

In the eyes of the world, we look like idiots.

23 posted on 06/07/2008 7:19:18 PM PDT by Barnacle (Communists and Jihadists were at odds...Then came Barack.)
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To: buccaneer81

“They didn’t like us long before Iraq, and they won’t like us 15 years after we leave Iraq. I really believe there’s still a lot of resentment from WWII, and a ton of jealousy regarding our way of life.”
****

Exactly! It’s really that simple. JEALOUSY.

We’re the top dogs...they’re not. Their civilizations have peaked, ours hasn’t. Our way of life starts with liberty and freedom...theirs don;t even have a clue of what it means to be free.

besides...those krauts started 2 world wars yet they couldn;t finish...pathetic.


24 posted on 06/07/2008 7:22:23 PM PDT by max americana
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To: CremeSaver
If something were to happen in Europe today, I wouldn’t care a bit, nor demand that our government lift a finger to help them. American lives should never be sacrificed again for any European. The place could burn to the ground for all I would care.

Sadly, I agree. I always was of the mind that we should come to the aid of Britain, regardless of the situation, but I'm not so sure anymore. That's how lost I think they are.

25 posted on 06/07/2008 7:24:56 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: max americana
besides...those krauts started 2 world wars yet they couldn;t finish...pathetic.

Makes you wonder about the frustration level of German women ;-)

26 posted on 06/07/2008 7:32:41 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: devolve; 2ndDivisionVet

[hostility was greatest in Russia]

Drastic change then. My daughter and family were there about 9 years ago and the people loved them, followed them around everywhere, asking questions.

How do they get the results for these story’s and polls? I’ve never been polled. People in some countries may be afraid to speak out. I’m dubious.


27 posted on 06/07/2008 7:33:32 PM PDT by potlatch (MICHELLE OBAMA - The gift that just keeps on giving....!)
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To: Gothmog

***Most European non-gay men (there’s probably still some) are jealous of our guy’s sexual prowess during the last European war.***

Over worked.
Over paid.
Over sexed.
And Over here!


28 posted on 06/07/2008 7:37:51 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

we have to keep people out, not in.


29 posted on 06/07/2008 7:39:27 PM PDT by Waco
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To: buccaneer81

Well, Islam will rule Europe in 10 more years, so what do I care about the Euroweenies...they;re cannon fodder while we re-load.

I actually dated a German chick years ago, nicely built..err, we’re going off topic here.


30 posted on 06/07/2008 7:40:53 PM PDT by max americana
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Asked "Do you think the United States is overall a force for good or evil in today's world?", an astonishing 43% of respondents said "force for evil." >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Yeah, Right!

Then why do millions of them want to holiday, travel and immigrate to the USA?

Miami is full of International travellers and vacationers from Europe. Hang out at the Grand Canyon and Niagara Falls sometime.

More Marxist crap from those who want to cow traditional American men into gurly men and make women into whussy pippers.

It ain't evil to be free.

Jealousy is a biatch, idnit?

31 posted on 06/07/2008 7:43:46 PM PDT by Candor7 (Fascism? All it takes is for good men to say nothing.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I would suggest that this is because the average European has lost his/her moral compass. They don’t know good from evil anymore.


32 posted on 06/07/2008 7:45:06 PM PDT by DB
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To: potlatch

.

Euro tourists still pour into NYC and other cities

I guess that hate the USA so much that they must come here and spend lots of money....

That does not make any sense does it?


33 posted on 06/07/2008 7:46:20 PM PDT by devolve (- Men - I want you all to relax! Let the 101st Airborne try again in 4 years! - Gen. George Patton)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

We should have left Europe in rubble under the Soviets who would have screwed it up even more. Then we would have gotten the respect we deserve.


34 posted on 06/07/2008 7:48:59 PM PDT by Cacique (quos Deus vult perdere, prius dementat ( Islamia Delenda Est ))
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To: devolve

No it doesn’t. They think it’s so bad that they spend a fortune just to come and see, lol

When I went to Disney World a number of years ago, I’d say a fourth of the people there were Japanese. It astounded me! But their money ratio at the time made visiting here cheap for them.


35 posted on 06/07/2008 7:50:29 PM PDT by potlatch (MICHELLE OBAMA - The gift that just keeps on giving....!)
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To: jwalsh07

I expect Europe to have a slow quiet death. The final turning point will be when Europeans in droves start immigrating out of Europe.


36 posted on 06/07/2008 7:51:30 PM PDT by DB
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To: Barnacle
Remember, intelligence services of England, Germany, France and Italy all said the WMDs were there. They had more and better intel than we did. The CIA analysts used their data after sifting it to suit their liberal biases. (Plame)
37 posted on 06/07/2008 7:51:39 PM PDT by elpadre
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To: max americana

” Their civilizations have peaked, ours hasn’t. “

Ours hasn’t ? Duh !


38 posted on 06/07/2008 7:54:39 PM PDT by sushiman
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I speak for the great majority of Americans (and you know I do) when I say I don’t care even remotely what the Europeans think about America, or about anything else for that matter. And when I talk to Europeans and they start in on how hated America is in the world, I’m very happy to explain to them that Americans flat don’t care what they think. They are unimportant except as consumers of our culture. It shocks them, because the seem to actually believe that we should be concerned that they don’t like us. I just laugh at them and say, if we respected them we might care what they think. But we don’t, and we don’t.


39 posted on 06/07/2008 8:03:45 PM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: buccaneer81
In Germany the figure was lower still at 25%.

What do we have to do to make it 100%?

40 posted on 06/07/2008 8:07:53 PM PDT by sig226 (Real power is not the ability to destroy an enemy. It is the willingness to do it.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Pull up the drawbridge. Screw em.


41 posted on 06/07/2008 8:08:22 PM PDT by Travis McGee (--- www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com ---)
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To: Travis McGee

Why give a rats ass what they think?!


42 posted on 06/07/2008 8:36:55 PM PDT by balls
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To: devolve
Euro tourists still pour into NYC

I took my family to NYC last summer. We stayed about six blocks up from Times Square on 7th Ave. You had to see the Europeans on their shopping sprees to believe it. My son and I were in the big Toys R US in Times Square and there was no English to be heard. Just the jabbering of French, German, Italian and Russian buying the place out. PS3s were flying out the door.

43 posted on 06/07/2008 8:41:47 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: DB
The final turning point will be when Europeans in droves start immigrating out of Europe.

Thanks to our immigration laws here, they won't be allowed in unless they face Mecca five times per day.

If I were living in Australia or Canada, I would be bracing for impact.

44 posted on 06/07/2008 8:44:54 PM PDT by buccaneer81 (Bob Taft has soiled the family name for the next century.)
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To: Barnacle

[In the eyes of the world, we look like idiots.]

In the eyes of those who watch the liberal media.


45 posted on 06/07/2008 8:50:24 PM PDT by littlehouse36 (I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him -- Booker T. Washington)
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To: buccaneer81; potlatch; PhilDragoo; ntnychik; MeekOneGOP

.

Yup

It’s amazing

But the media insists on spinning it

Let’s send the media abroad and take in those who love coming here as tourists


46 posted on 06/07/2008 9:11:27 PM PDT by devolve (- Men - I want you all to relax! Let the 101st Airborne try again in 4 years! - Gen. George Patton)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Do they care what we think of them? Why the heck should we care what they think of us?


47 posted on 06/07/2008 9:12:00 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

What is the poll result without Russia?


48 posted on 06/07/2008 9:26:20 PM PDT by weegee (In 1988 Lenora Fulani was the 1st black woman to appear on presidential ballots in all 50 states)
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To: Free Vulcan

France, Germany, and Russia were getting payoffs from Hussein’s Iraq to stiffle support for the war.

They miss the bribes.


49 posted on 06/07/2008 9:27:50 PM PDT by weegee (In 1988 Lenora Fulani was the 1st black woman to appear on presidential ballots in all 50 states)
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To: Rummyfan
We’re a bunch of rubes, cowboys

And some are all hat and no cattle.

50 posted on 06/07/2008 9:31:26 PM PDT by weegee (In 1988 Lenora Fulani was the 1st black woman to appear on presidential ballots in all 50 states)
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