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Doomsday Under Debate
msnbc ^ | 6-16-08 | Alan Boyle

Posted on 06/18/2008 7:53:42 AM PDT by 444Flyer

The world's largest particle collider is designed to do its job largely under the surface-and that under-the-surface status also applies to much of the progress in the legal case challenging whether the collider should actually be allowed to do its job.

(Excerpt) Read more at cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com ...


TOPICS: News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: chickenlittle; theendisnigh; theskyisfalling
I'm not a scientist, but even the remotest possibility of creating "...world-gobbling black holes.." is worth a second examination before they flip the "on" switch.
1 posted on 06/18/2008 7:53:42 AM PDT by 444Flyer
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To: 444Flyer

I think the “Steel Curtain” was better than “Doomsday.”

Oh, I thought this was about great 70s NFL defensive units.


2 posted on 06/18/2008 7:58:03 AM PDT by dfwgator ( This tag blank until football season.)
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To: 444Flyer

Well, if the black hole appears, then I won’t have to repay that $100 I owe my bro-in-law.


3 posted on 06/18/2008 7:58:29 AM PDT by theDentist (Qwerty ergo typo : I type, therefore I misspelll.)
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To: 444Flyer

Is it possible, it can open a doorway to another demension?


4 posted on 06/18/2008 8:01:18 AM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (If everyone stays home and no one votes will Congress disappear?)
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To: 444Flyer

Black holes are not the problem. It’s the SIZE of the black hole that is the problem.


5 posted on 06/18/2008 8:03:37 AM PDT by SengirV
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To: 444Flyer

If a black hole opens I should get my ex-wife a job there!


6 posted on 06/18/2008 8:04:43 AM PDT by NCBraveheart (Too bad ignorance isn't painful)
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To: 444Flyer

I’m not a scientist either and maybe it does require some further looks but not in Hawaii. The plaintiffs here are attempting to rope in CERN through a past subcontractor (the U.S. companies) and thereby obtain and enforce some U.S. judgment abroad. Plaintiff has done some forum shopping.


7 posted on 06/18/2008 8:18:43 AM PDT by caseinpoint (Don't get thickly involved in thin things)
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To: SengirV

No danger exists. This story is pure hype. First, the energies expended by the LHC are something like an order of magnitude less than those needed to create a microsingularity (aka a “mini black hole”). Second, once created, a microsingularity would immediately dissipate its mass into energy and vanish due to a quantum-mechanical effect called Hawking radiation. The smaller the ‘hole”, the faster this dissipation takes place. Third, even if a stable microsingularity could be created by the LHC, it would still retain an electrical charge, and could be manipulated and controlled using suitable electrical fields, so no danger to the Earth would exist.


8 posted on 06/18/2008 8:28:33 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: NCBraveheart

If this opens a gateway to another dimension, I say we throw all the Democrats in there!

Let’s be honest, would anybody actually miss them all that much??


9 posted on 06/18/2008 8:36:13 AM PDT by cups
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To: B-Chan

Easy for YOU to say. ;)


10 posted on 06/18/2008 8:46:35 AM PDT by liege
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To: 444Flyer

“I’m not a scientist, but even the remotest possibility of creating ‘...world-gobbling black holes..’ is worth a second examination before they flip the ‘on’ switch.”

Thing is, there is not even a shred of a remote possibility of this happening. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Less than that, even.

Short version: A black whole does not magically have more mass than that from which it formed. It’s that whole “conservation of mass” thing. Collapse a star down into a black hole, and it will have the mass of the star. Collapse a 10kg weight into a black hole, and it will have 10kg of mass, and it will effect everything around it the EXACT same way as that 10kg weight would. With the collider, you MIGHT collapse a couple protons into a micro black hole. That black hole will have the same mass AND THE SAME EFFECT ON EVERYTHING AROUND IT as those couple of protons. In other words, NONE.

Also, black holes “evaporate,” lasting a period of time that is inversely proportional to their mass. A black hole made from a couple protons would lass less than a few nanoseconds.

The problem is that people who don’t know squat about science see the word “black hole” and freak out. They think the term means some huge star gobbling thing like you see in the movies. It doesn’t — it refers to a particular set of physical conditions that can be described mathematically. The big ones are star gobbling monsters, but that’s because they are formed from huge star gobblingly massive stars. The micro ones aren’t anything like that, if they exist at all.

This is simple ignorance coupled with (in many cases) stupidity in that those people are unwilling to be educated to cure their ignorance. (Not directed at you, but rather at the dunces pursuing this case.)


11 posted on 06/18/2008 8:53:42 AM PDT by piytar
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To: 444Flyer

I dunno - I’m not fond of the idea of being sucked into an alternate universe where the U.S. can win a war and everybody in the media just puts their hands over their ears and pretends we lost so they won’t have to say they were wrong...oh, wait a minute...


12 posted on 06/18/2008 8:55:30 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: piytar

“black whole” should be “black hole” PIMF


13 posted on 06/18/2008 8:55:52 AM PDT by piytar
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To: piytar; B-Chan
A black hole does not magically have more mass than that from which it formed.

This story is pure hype

Thank you very much. However, you have to remember that there is a dollar to be made here from exploiting people like me who lack a background in physics.

14 posted on 06/18/2008 9:14:03 AM PDT by JimSEA (Kaffur and proud of it.)
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To: SengirV
It’s the SIZE of the black hole that is the problem.

I disagree. I think it's more about the LOCATION.

15 posted on 06/18/2008 9:21:57 AM PDT by Lou L
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To: piytar
Also, black holes “evaporate,” lasting a period of time that is inversely proportional to their mass. A black hole made from a couple protons would lass less than a few nanoseconds.

Wouldn't that be directly proportional to their mass? Small mass, little time; Large mass, long time?

16 posted on 06/18/2008 9:24:45 AM PDT by Lou L
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To: JimSEA
Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not trying to prove I'm a brain or something here (as if!). I myself lack a background in physics. For Pete's sake, I flunked out of Navy Nuke School! This stuff, though, is high school level physics — the kind of thing they print in Reader's Digest. How can people talk about black holes without understanding at a basic level what a black hole is?
17 posted on 06/18/2008 9:29:41 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Lou L
Exactly. The entropy S of a black hole of diamater a can be computed by use of the Bekenstein-Hawking Formula S= akc3/4Ghbar, where a is the surface area of the event horizon, k is Boltzmann's constant, c is the speed of light, G is the gravitational constant, and hbar is the constant of angular momentum. Since the other values remain constant, entropy S varies according to a, the surface area of the black hole in question.
18 posted on 06/18/2008 9:39:39 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: B-Chan
Don't misunderstand me, I appreciate your posts!!!
19 posted on 06/18/2008 9:59:13 AM PDT by JimSEA (Kaffur and proud of it.)
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To: JimSEA

I appreciate your confidence. Please note, however, that I am uneducated (I don’t even have a college degree) and am all too capable of getting fudged up myself when it comes to physics. Good thing we have some real brains here on FR to straighten the rest of us out!


20 posted on 06/18/2008 10:04:18 AM PDT by B-Chan (Catholic. Monarchist. Texan. Any questions?)
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To: Lou L

NO, it’s the size. The biggest black hole that can be created in this facility would only last a tiny fraction of a second before it evaporated away.


21 posted on 06/18/2008 10:05:55 AM PDT by SengirV
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To: 444Flyer

The Bosenova; that oughta make you kick up your heels...


22 posted on 06/18/2008 10:10:15 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: B-Chan

It ain’t the earth we should be worried about, something of this sort would suck up the sun itself and then where would we be, out freezing to death someplace, I guess.


23 posted on 06/18/2008 10:13:09 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: piytar

I figured you misspelled it, what had me worried was whether you were aiming at the “e” and instead hit two keys at once.


24 posted on 06/18/2008 10:16:24 AM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: SengirV
NO, it’s the size. The biggest black hole that can be created in this facility would only last a tiny fraction of a second before it evaporated away.

I understand what you're saying. I guess I'm just saying that before they start fooling around with this stuff, I'd like my location to be far away from it!

25 posted on 06/18/2008 11:47:40 AM PDT by Lou L
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To: Lou L

Oops, yes, directly proportional. (And that’s not even 100% accurate - its proportional to some power of the mass, I can’t recall what power though).


26 posted on 06/18/2008 11:49:07 AM PDT by piytar
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To: piytar; B-Chan

I originally was going to use the posting comment “Is the thingy mabober and the thingy majigger going to blow up the world real good?”

I love FREEP. Thanks for the info guys!

P.S. If you’re wrong I’ll be looking for you both in that Bosenova, with a flashlight, to give you a piece of my mind.;)


27 posted on 06/18/2008 5:36:42 PM PDT by 444Flyer (Marriage=One man+One woman! Vote to amend the California State Constitution this November.)
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