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Was the Holocaust Inevitable? ( Patrick J. Buchanan )
townhall.com ^ | June 20, 2008 | Patrick J. Buchanan

Posted on 06/20/2008 8:12:50 AM PDT by kellynla

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To: Zionist Conspirator
That being said, it must be stressed that because the Jewish People are different from all other nations, because there is a difference between the Jewish and non-Jewish soul,

Would you be offended if someone said that same thing, only replacing the words with Aryan, European, or white?

201 posted on 06/20/2008 10:47:55 AM PDT by Ron Jeremy (sonic)
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To: Petronski

Yep. Like the Demaniuk defense.


202 posted on 06/20/2008 10:48:26 AM PDT by sobieski
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To: sobieski
I repeat: Part of the indictment is Demaniuk. And he was right on that front.

Yes, he was. What's that saying? Oh yeah, "Even a blind sow will occasionally find an acorn"

Hitler wasn't all bad either. He liked dogs.

203 posted on 06/20/2008 10:48:56 AM PDT by null and void (every Muslim, the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate of Americans, Jews & Christians)
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To: null and void

LoL! Two cliches in one post! Genius.

He was right on Demaniuk. Come on, you can say it.


204 posted on 06/20/2008 10:49:52 AM PDT by sobieski
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To: Ron Jeremy

There is no significant oil in the conquests of the Third Reich except in Romania, which was an ally (and in the North Sea, which hadn’t been discovered yet). The blitzkreig was running out of gas. Hitler preferred the idea of making for the Caucusus to the idea of attempting to get to Iraq.


205 posted on 06/20/2008 10:50:01 AM PDT by buck jarret
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To: Past Your Eyes

And had Lee taken that offer, he’d have been a traitor to his home state and the South.


206 posted on 06/20/2008 10:50:49 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: Carry_Okie
Oh, and do me a favor, the very word, "holocaust" was derived from the Greek root, "holokaustos," meaning, "a holy and accepted burnt offering."

"A holy and accepted burnt offering" might be a usage of the word, but "holokaustos" comes from "holo" meaning whole and "kaustos" meaning burned.

The word's literal meaning is "complete destruction by fire."

Greek semantics aside, whatever meaning "holokaustos" has, The Holocaust does NOT mean "a holy and accepted burnt offering." It refers to the Nazi German effort to destroy the Jewish people through complete destruction by fire.

207 posted on 06/20/2008 10:51:50 AM PDT by Petronski (Scripture & Tradition must be accepted & honored w/equal sentiments of devotion & reverence. CCC 82)
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To: buck jarret

Isn’t it Holocaust Denial to ignore what happened to the Slavs? More Slavic non-combatants than Jews were exterminated by the Germans, after all.


208 posted on 06/20/2008 10:52:36 AM PDT by sobieski
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To: Clemenza

Ya learn something new everyday. It’s hard to believe we took this asshat seriously at one point...


209 posted on 06/20/2008 10:52:51 AM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~"This is what happens when you find a stranger in the Alps !"~~)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
Supreme Rabbinic Court of America

I am familiar with many Rabbinic associations, but I do not know of any "supreme" rabbinic authority in the U.S. Unlike Israel and Britain, the U.S. does not have a Chief Rabbinate.

210 posted on 06/20/2008 10:53:57 AM PDT by Alouette (Vicious Babushka)
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To: Grampa Dave
If Pat had been a lying writer during WWII, he probably would have been rounded by Israel as a Nazi supporter or worse.

I have the greatest respect for Israeli intelligence, but I don't think that their assets include time machines. ;^)

[The state of Israel was founded in 1948.]

211 posted on 06/20/2008 10:54:48 AM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("Code Pink should guard against creating stereotypes in the Mincing Community." --Titan Magroyne)
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To: kellynla
Interesting in a sort of dark way - what Pat is really attempting here is the construction of an alternative narrative off which to hang certain facts - those that seem to fit - while ignoring or explaining away certain others that do not. It isn't that uncommon in historical circles, - one sees it a lot in the alternate histories proposed by certain postmodernists attempting to work selected facts into a narrative of oppression of one group or another.

History has two parts - a recording of factual events and the construction of a narrative to tie them together. One is, as the saying goes, entitled to one's own narrative but not to one's own facts.

Whether an alternate set of events might have avoided WWII is academic (in several senses). The real ones did not. Whether that alternate set of events would have led ineluctably to another alternate set of events - no Holocaust - is still more derivative and still more academic. In fact they did not.

The real difficulty with the "would have, could have, should have" treatment to such narratives as Buchanan's is that they depend entirely on events that didn't happen. Was WWII "necessary"? Was the Holocaust? Well, the discussion of such things as "necessary" in this regard is one of narrative, not of fact. These are questions only an academic could love. Both happened.

The real danger here is that clinging to any one narrative can lead one to deny facts that do not support it. One may be so enamored of the Jew As Enemy narrative that one blames both WWII and the Holocaust on Jewish perfidy, or worse, needs to deny the reality of the latter and at some point even the former. Certain radical Muslim narratives of the period do that. It is an astounding and frustrating thing for those who lived through such factual events to see their very reality denied by those who prefer to believe narratives to which they are inconvenient.

Without going into any particularly detailed analysis, I have in mind a few facts that might be regarded as inconvenient for this particular narrative - Hitler's clear intentions toward the Jews as expressed far earlier even than Mein Kampf but easiest to locate in that rather dull volume, the acts of organized anti-Semitism that preceded the events of the war, the detailed planning of population movements that happened quite to the detriment of the war effort. There are more, too many in my opinion to allow for Buchanan's narrative to carry much more weight than the purely hypothetical.

212 posted on 06/20/2008 10:55:12 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: fieldmarshaldj

So if one supports a moderate foreign policy of defending America only (ending Nato, bringing troops home from Korea, Bosnia, etc) he’s an anti-semite b/c David Frum says so?


213 posted on 06/20/2008 10:55:48 AM PDT by sobieski
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To: sobieski

Eastern Europe is majority Slav. Jews were a small minority. Naturally more Slavs than Jews were killed in absolute numbers. But the Nazis were not trying to exterminate Slavs, who were to be the slaves of the future. They were trying to completely exterminate Jews. Look at it in percentages.

One should also remember that the Holocaust was largely carried out by Eastern Europeans, with only a thin layer of German staff.


214 posted on 06/20/2008 10:56:45 AM PDT by buck jarret
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To: sobieski
Two cliches in one post! Genius.

*blush* Thank yew. You should see me when I really get rolling...

He was right on Demaniuk. Come on, you can say it.

Yes I can and I did. What were my first words in that post? I said "Yes, he was."

215 posted on 06/20/2008 10:58:39 AM PDT by null and void (every Muslim, the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate of Americans, Jews & Christians)
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To: sobieski

Yeah. Thank God my ancestor emigrated in 1914.


216 posted on 06/20/2008 11:00:23 AM PDT by null and void (every Muslim, the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate of Americans, Jews & Christians)
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To: Billthedrill

Beats the hell out of ‘Pukeannon’s nuts’. Thanks.


217 posted on 06/20/2008 11:01:29 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: Slings and Arrows; Grampa Dave

I think he meant after the war, the way the State of Israel pursued (is still pursuing?) Nazi war criminals.


218 posted on 06/20/2008 11:03:19 AM PDT by null and void (every Muslim, the minute he can start differentiating, carries hate of Americans, Jews & Christians)
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To: SJackson; Salem; Alouette; SunkenCiv

If Churchill had not taken over in 1940, we might all be speaking German and Japanese. He was not perfect, but he showed great spine and courage despite the apparent odds in 1940. If Britain had given in in 1940, Hitler might well have been able to force Stalin to surrender and had the vast resources of much of Russia at his disposal. That would have been even worse for the USA, Britain, and civlization. Note: Stalin was just as wicked and evil as Hitler; as a mass murderer, Stalin killed far more people than even Hitler - he had more time to do so. Hitler and his demonic compatriots planned from way before WW2 to get rid of the Jewish people in Europe one way or another, and have their muzzie allies (the mufti if Jersualem - may he be forever blotted out) in the middle east take care of the Jewish people there. Pat’s dreamworld seems to be one that has no Jewish people. If he’d been alive in 1939, he’d likely have been a super isolationist apologist for that lowlife Hitler. Pat can kindly go stuff a potato in his mouth, go sit on an air hose, and turn it on full blast!


219 posted on 06/20/2008 11:03:42 AM PDT by Convert from ECUSA ("When I was a boy, America was a better place" - Dennis Prager)
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To: buck jarret

That is pure Holocaust Denial. Hitler intended to liquidate the Slavs, and 9 million souls weigh no less than six million. And some Slavs collaborated. As Hans Frank said, we will make mincemeat of the Poles and Ukranians. It’s a shame you can make such statements, which would be condemned if said about the Jews


220 posted on 06/20/2008 11:03:53 AM PDT by sobieski
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