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A matter of life: In almost every way, McCain, Obama on opposite sides of America's abortion divide
WORLD ^ | June 28, 2008 | Jamie Dean

Posted on 06/20/2008 9:45:56 AM PDT by Caleb1411

Long before Sen. Barack Obama secured the Democratic presidential nomination, the candidate mused about the first thing he would do as president.

At a Planned Parenthood gathering in Washington, D.C., last July, Obama told supporters of America's largest abortion network: "The first thing I'd do as president is sign the Freedom of Choice Act."

The purpose of the pro-abortion legislation—first introduced in the Senate in 1989—is clear: "To prohibit, consistent with Roe v. Wade, the interference by the government with a woman's right to choose to bear a child or terminate a pregnancy." The bill has never passed Congress, but its intention is sweeping: Nullify most abortion restrictions already in place, and cut off attempts at further restrictions.

Obama's support for the bill doesn't come up much on the campaign trail. The candidate rarely mentions abortion outside of pro-abortion gatherings, and downplays the volatile issue to mixed crowds.

On the other side of the stump, Sen. John McCain is talking about abortion more than he has in the past. The presumptive Republican nominee is taking pains to point out his pro-life voting record, especially to some skeptical pro-life supporters.

In a campaign season dominated by the economy, the war, and the price of gasoline, pro-abortion and pro-life groups agree on one thing: The stakes in the abortion debate remain high, and the two presidential candidates largely represent opposite ends of the spectrum.

Obama spelled out those stakes on the 35th anniversary of Roe v. Wade: "With one more vacancy on the Supreme Court, we could be looking at a majority hostile to a woman's fundamental right to choose for the first time since Roe v. Wade."

The National Abortion Rights Action League (NARAL) agrees and recently endorsed Obama, calling him "a fully pro-choice candidate." The group gave Obama a 100 percent rating for supporting pro-abortion legislation in Congress.

NARAL gives McCain a zero percent rating for his "extreme anti-choice record," and asks for donations to help defeat his campaign.

One mile south of NARAL's Washington, D.C., headquarters, National Right to Life (NRTL) is adamant as well. The pro-life group—which endorsed Fred Thompson last year—now supports McCain, citing his voting record in Congress. Not surprisingly, it vigorously opposes Obama, also citing his voting record. NRTL president David O'Steen told WORLD: "I don't see how one could take a more pro-abortion position than Obama."

Examining the candidates' voting records reveals the kinds of policies each would likely support as president. Obama in the U.S. Senate has supported funding for overseas groups that promote or perform abortions and has opposed parental notification laws.

When he was an Illinois state senator, Obama instead of voting "yes" or "no" on abortion bills often voted "present." In 1997 Obama voted "present" on two bills banning partial-birth abortion. In 2001 he voted "present" on two parental notification bills. He voted "present" three times on bills aimed at protecting infants who survive abortions.

Pam Sutherland, president of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, said her group worked with Obama and a handful of other Democratic senators on the voting strategy. Sutherland said the tactic allowed senators to withhold support for pro-life bills without creating a record that could hurt them with voters. "A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole, which is exactly what Obama wanted," she told ABC News.

Despite voting "present" on the pro-life bills, Obama expressed strong opposition to them, saying they didn't include exceptions for the health of the mother, and that they would hold doctors criminally responsible for performing such abortions. Obama condemned the Supreme Court's decision last year to uphold the federal ban on partial-birth abortions, calling it an attempt to "steadily roll back the hard-won rights of American women."

In presidential debates, Obama has said he believes that states could legitimately put restrictions on some late-term abortions, but added, "The broader issue here is: Do women have the right to make these profoundly difficult decisions? And I trust them to do it."

McCain in the U.S. Senate voted for the partial-birth abortion ban, parental notification laws, banning abortions in military medical facilities, the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, and dozens of other pro-life measures. NRTL's O'Steen told WORLD: "McCain has an absolutely solid and consistent pro-life voting record."

But the record isn't flawless. Some pro-life groups—including NRTL—have ardently disagreed with McCain-sponsored campaign finance laws that curtail attempts by nonprofit groups to influence voters toward particular candidates 60 days before an election.

A bigger problem for McCain among pro-life voters is his support for federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. Pro-life groups oppose the research that requires destroying frozen embryos, and they express consternation over McCain's support of allocating tax dollars toward the work.

Late last year, McCain told WORLD that he believes life begins at conception, but "the Bible also tells us to heal the sick," and he remains firmly committed to funding the research. O'Steen said NRTL disagrees with McCain on the embryonic stem cell issue, but that his overall voting record remained strong enough for McCain to win its support.

One other bump McCain might face: In 2000 the senator strongly argued for a change to the pro-life GOP platform, which calls for a human life amendment to the Constitution. McCain said it should include exceptions for rape, incest, and the life of the mother.

Republicans have resisted the change, and McCain hasn't indicated he'll push for it this year. But the issue could put the candidate in an awkward position this summer.

If the candidates' voting records reveal what they might do as president, so do their public statements. McCain says Roe v. Wade should be overturned, and has indicated he would nominate judges sympathetic to that view.

Obama has made abortion-related promises as well: In addition to supporting the Freedom of Choice Act, the senator opposes any constitutional amendment to ban abortion. He says he would defend Roe v. Wade and nominate justices who would do the same. He would also promote federal funding for sex education for teens, as well as funds for a public information campaign about "emergency contraception."

It's unclear how much Obama's abortion views will surface during the campaign, but it's clear that he doesn't plan to change those views: "On this issue," he told the Planned Parenthood gathering, " I will not yield."

On the record Comparing candidates' life-related votes

1. Codify state health care option for unborn children.

Amendment to codify states' option to cover unborn children in SCHIP program, and define an unborn child as any phase of development in the womb

McCain: Yes; Obama: No

2. Stem Cell Research Enhancement Act of 2007

Mandated federal funding for embryonic stem cell research

McCain: Yes; Obama: Yes

3. Child Interstate Abortion Notification Act

Bill requiring abortionists to notify at least one parent before performing an abortion on a minor from another state

McCain: Yes; Obama: No

4. Funding for overseas pro-abortion groups

Amendment to nullify federal policy prohibiting federal funds for overseas groups that perform or promote abortions

McCain: No; Obama: Yes

5. Partial-birth abortion ban

Bill to ban partial-birth abortions, in which a baby is partially delivered before killed

McCain: Yes; Obama: * Not yet in U.S. Senate —


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2008; abortion; babykillers; issues; mccain; notpunishment; nrlc; obama; prolife; prolifevote

1 posted on 06/20/2008 9:45:56 AM PDT by Caleb1411
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To: Caleb1411

Obama=Infanticide


2 posted on 06/20/2008 9:47:19 AM PDT by massgopguy (I owe everything to George Bailey)
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To: rhema; cpforlife.org; MHGinTN; Salvation

Ping


3 posted on 06/20/2008 9:50:32 AM PDT by Caleb1411 ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." G. K. C)
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To: wagglebee

Ping


4 posted on 06/20/2008 9:51:09 AM PDT by Caleb1411 ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." G. K. C)
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To: Caleb1411

This is just such an important issue to most of us....it’s one of the reasons that we need to vote MCCain.

I sure know mcCain’s not perfect but Obama has no morals at all.
Dispicable human being


5 posted on 06/20/2008 9:57:27 AM PDT by HappyinAZ
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To: Caleb1411
McCain has been on both sides of the abortion issue. He will say whatever he figures to get votes. One exception: amnesty and illegal aliens. Those he loves.

What McCain will do if he becomes president is another matter. Who can trust anything he says? Some people feel it does not matter since he will lose in Nov.

6 posted on 06/20/2008 10:00:10 AM PDT by Jane Austen (Boycott the Bahamas!)
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To: Jane Austen
Check out his voting record, 115 of 119 pro-life Senate votes, according to hysterical NARAL and other pro-choice organizations who are manning (-er, womaning) the ramparts to fight him tooth and nail.
7 posted on 06/20/2008 10:06:15 AM PDT by Caleb1411 ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." G. K. C)
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To: Caleb1411

He switches positions all time from breaking his marriage vows to declaring himself a conservative. He flip flops and lies too much to be trusted. Amnesty is the one consistent position.


8 posted on 06/20/2008 10:11:57 AM PDT by Jane Austen (Boycott the Bahamas!)
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To: Jane Austen
On this issue, anyway, I'll take a decades-long record of 115 of 119 pro-life votes against Obama's sworn vows to undo every pro-life statute -- partial-birth abortion on down -- he can.
9 posted on 06/20/2008 10:15:32 AM PDT by Caleb1411 ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." G. K. C)
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To: Caleb1411
On this issue, anyway, I'll take a decades-long record of 115 of 119 pro-life votes against Obama's sworn vows to undo every pro-life statute -- partial-birth abortion on down -- he can.

Still aren't seeing the light, are you? It's those 4 votes, as some FReepers have repeatedly pointed out out to you, that disqualify McCain as a pro-lifer. A .997 batting average just doesn't cut it in their league.

10 posted on 06/20/2008 10:21:00 AM PDT by rhema ("Break the conventions; keep the commandments." -- G. K. Chesterton)
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To: rhema

McCain’s actually batting .966, even worse in the FR all-or-nothing league.


11 posted on 06/20/2008 10:25:12 AM PDT by Caleb1411 ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." G. K. C)
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To: Caleb1411
He (Obama) voted "present" three times on bills aimed at protecting infants who survive abortions. Perhaps the empty suit is taking advice from the Barbarian Boxer who stated on the Senate floor ,in effect, that a child is not 'viable' (allowed by the mother to live) until she takes that thing home.
12 posted on 06/20/2008 10:29:18 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN
From a Human Events article in 2006: Jill Stanek, a registered delivery-ward nurse who was the prime mover behind the legislation after she witnessed aborted babies’ being born alive and left to die, testified twice before Obama in support of the Induced Infant Liability Act bills. She also testified before the U.S. Congress in support of the Born Alive Infant Protection Act.

Stanek told me her testimony “did not faze” Obama.

In the second hearing, Stanek said, “I brought pictures in and presented them to the committee of very premature babies from my neonatal resuscitation book from the American Pediatric Association, trying to show them unwanted babies were being cast aside. Babies the same age were being treated if they were wanted!”

“And those pictures didn’t faze him [Obama] at all,” she said.

At the end of the hearing, according to the official records of the Illinois State senate, Obama thanked Stanek for being “very clear and forthright,” but said his concern was that Stanek had suggested “doctors really don’t care about children who are being born with a reasonable prospect of life because they are so locked into their pro-abortion views that they would watch an infant that is viable die.” He told her, “That may be your assessment, and I don’t see any evidence of that. What we are doing here is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that.”

And we're supposed to believe there's insufficient evidence to favor McCain over Obama on this issue?

13 posted on 06/20/2008 10:39:03 AM PDT by Caleb1411 ("These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." G. K. C)
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To: Caleb1411
John McCain's Whimsical World of Conservatism
Food for thought for the Hillary Clinton Wing of the GOP

1982/00/00 McCain enters Congress, with his family accepts first of nine trips some aboard Keating's leer jet, three of which include stayovers at Keating's Caribbean resort (goes unreported for up to 7 years)
1983/09/28 McCain joins 26 other Republicans to vote with the Majority Party Congressional Democrats to demand U.S. Troops exit Lebanon, winds up on the losing side
1986/04/00 Cindy McCain and her father invest $359,100 in a Charles Keating strip mall
1987/00/00 McCain has received $112,000 by this time for Congressional and Senate campaigns, from Charles Keating, his relatives, and his employees, the largest amount to any Keating 5 member
1987/04/02 McCain joins four Democrats to intercede on behalf of his S&L Owner friend Keating with
Ed Gray, chairman of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board and also banking regulators (2 meetings)
1988/02/11 McCain votes to affirm Anthony Kennedy as a justice for the SCOTUS
1989/00/00 McCain discloses Keating trips as his involvement in the S&L scandal breaks, reimbursing $13,433.00 with no repercussions as late as seven years after the fact
1990/10/02 McCain votes to Confirm Justice David H. Souter from New Hampshire to be an Associate Justice on the SCOTUS Court
1993/10/10 McCain co-sponsors an unsuccessful bill to cut off funding of United States troops in Somalia
1993/08/10 McCain joins the Democrats and most Republicans voting to confirm Ruth Bader Ginsberg, the worst justice on the court today.  Three Republicans vote Nay.
1993/01/13 McCain and Kerry release the Select Committee report urging the MIA issue be put to rest so that Vietnam could be granted normalized relations with the U.S., over objections by MIA family and veterans groups.  Video1  Video2  ( I do not endorse all of the information presented in video1 here.  The video does touch on a number of topics, and I think most are germane )  If I could have found video that contained most of this information without touching on McCain's POW experience I would have posted it instead.  Still, there are parts of McCain's POW experience that are troubling.  I'd just rather not go there.  Video2 shows how one MIA family rep is treated, confirming some of the reports in Video1.
1994/07/24 McCain joins with the Democrats to confirm nominee Stephen Breyer to be an Associate Justice on the SCOTUS.  Nine Senators voted Nay...
1997/00/00 McCain leads the opposition to the Coats Amendment, preventing government funded fetal tissue research ( derived from "a legal act" [abortion] )  Amendment defeated!
1999/08/19 McCain stated, ""Certainly in the short term, or even the long term, I would not support repeal of Roe vs. Wade,"
2000/00/00 McCain joins Democrat Russ Feingold to introduce Campaign Finance Reform, an effort funded by George Soros  Article
2000/00/00 McCain was the keynote speaker at the ultra-liberal Philadelphia convention sponsored by George Soros while John F. Kerry keynoted at another Soros event on the same day...
2000/11/20 McCain participates in the production of a gun control spot for Oregon's Proposition Five.  (Circa this date, prior to the November election.)  Article
2001/00/00 McCain founded the Reform Institute funded by George Soros
2001/05/15 McCain introduces the Gun Show Loophole bill S890, with Carper, Lieberman, DeWine, Clinton, and Schumer co/sponsoring. Analysis
2003/03/19 McCain joins Democrats to vote against drilling in ANWR
2003/10/30 McCain joins Lieberman again, this time to introduce the Climate Stewardship Act (Gorebal worming et al)  Thomas  Bill S139
2004/06/04 McCain signs letter with 58 Senators, "We write to urge you to expand the current federal policy concerning embryonic stem cell research."
2004/08/05 McCain announces he deplores the Swift Boat adds against Senator John Kerry, and asks the White House to refute them
2005/00/00 McCain resigns from the Reform Institute he founded with George Soros
2005/01/28 McCain declares, "I want us in the ICC (International Criminal Court)", but I would like to see more safeguards first
2005/05/12 McCain joins Ted Kennedy to introduce McCain/Kennedy immigration legislation that would wind up making illegal immigrants citizens
2006/09/06 McCain joins Dole to write op-ed for the Washington Post, states in part, "We should publicly remind Khartoum that the International Criminal Court has jurisdiction to prosecute war crimes..."
2007/02/17 McCain states he will close Guantanamo Bay terrorist detainment center on his first day in office  Video  (same as date link on the left)
2007/03/22 McCain gets the pledged support of Chuck and Sue Cobb, Jeb Bush's Florida Director of the Free Trade of the Americas Agreement effort
2007/06/00 McCain joins Baldwin, Shays and Meehan to file an amicus brief against the Wisconsin Right to Life organization  brief  The wrong side of a pro-life issue, helping pro-abort Feingold
2007/06/18 McCains Gitmo problem, close the base, grant Geneva Convention status, stop water boarding...
2008/03/00 McCain makes his first attempt to tell a state (North Carolina) Republican Party what to do.  The RNC joins him.
2008/03/24 McCain hires Meg Whiteman to cochair his Presidential campaign.  Whiteman is another wishy washy at best Independent, who has donated to leftist candidates and still doesn't have a clue what side to come down on with regard to illegal immigration.  She is leaning toward running for Governor in California and being courted by it's Republican leadership.  Links to CalCowGirl's comments regardint Whiteman's donations.  Article above.
2008/03/26 McCains speech to the World Affairs Council, Europe may get veto power over some of our foreign policy...
2008/05/09 McCains interview with O'Reilly... I won't drill in ANWR... it's pretty... I'm an environmentalist.  (note: there's a good chance he may have an environMental disorder)
2008/05/12 McCain Joins the Goreball Worming Cult, sounding more like Al Gore every day...  McCain's Oregon add Video
2008/05/13 McCain takes an Environmental walk, with the leader of the Cascade Land Conservancy... (another series of fruit loop moments)
2008/05/15 McCain states he will appoint Democrats to his administration, during a Republican teleconference and during a Columbus stump speech
2008/05/27 McCain announces support for severe cutbacks on our nuclear weapons, withdrawing battlefield nukes from Europe and giving our nuclear waste to an international body
2008/06/14 McCain tells Clinton supporters they should back him because he voted for Ginsberg and Breyer  Said this to Conservatives on 2008/05/07

14 posted on 06/20/2008 10:45:26 AM PDT by DoughtyOne ( I say no to the Hillary Clinton wing of the Republican party. Not now or ever, John McCain...)
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To: DoughtyOne

Now that you’ve revealed your anti-McCain agenda, why not explain it further?... On a pro-life thread. Do you think Romney would be more pro-life than John McCain? The Mittster is not the nominee running against Obama. Do you see some way to get Ron Paul into the nominee seat and remove McCain? Sorry, that won’t happen either. Do you actually entertain as possible that Bob ‘I worked for the ACLU’ Barr could become president rather than get Obama elected? Do you think American conservatives need the Libertarian punishment, to herd us into line? [You have a posting history one may consult, BTW.]


15 posted on 06/20/2008 11:05:03 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

I have stated quite clearly that I think installing a leftist like McCain as the titular leader of the Conservative movement would be suicidal. I hope this saves you the time of having to research my thoughts on McCain.

McCain is not pristine on the Right to Life movement. He even intercedes on behalf of Congressmen that are consumate abortion supporters against organizations trying to end abortions in this nation.

So while John votes one way, he joins Demcrats to sign letters, files amicus briefs, and whatever else moves him at any given moment to defeat right to life.

Is he better than Obama on the subject? Sure. Is he worth voting for? No.

No federal government entity will be pushing Conservative agenda under McCain. Instead the Republican Party will spend it’s time backing his plays, giving him all their votes to pass many of the same things Obama would.

This man has soiled himself on every issue.


16 posted on 06/20/2008 11:16:32 AM PDT by DoughtyOne ( I say no to the Hillary Clinton wing of the Republican party. Not now or ever, John McCain...)
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To: DoughtyOne

Saved me?... Don’t vote for McCain and help elect the socialist empty suit, Barry Obama. Your ilk saves no one and yet you hold yourself in such high regard. The facyt that McCain can change his positions and is showing some signs of that makes zero impression on the self-righteous such as yourself. Got a perfect candidate to beat Obama? ... I didn’t think so. Marginalize yourself some more for us ... it is instructive.


17 posted on 06/20/2008 11:47:02 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN

Here it is:

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/pba/notansweringboxersantorum.html


18 posted on 06/20/2008 11:49:38 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: Caleb1411

Wow, what a barbaric A-Hole!

The baby is OUT, lying there on the table, and saving its life is

“creat[ing] one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that”


19 posted on 06/20/2008 11:51:33 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: MrB

Thank you so much! I had lost that link when I changed laptops. How revealing that exchange is, eh? And she claims to be a ‘fiathful’ Catholic. She’s an embarrassment to my ‘true Catholic’ friends.


20 posted on 06/20/2008 11:52:49 AM PDT by MHGinTN (Believing they cannot be deceived, they cannot be convinced when they are deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN
Saved me?...  I didn't say I saved you.  I said I hope I have saved you from having to wade through my posts.  I'm quite willing to be frank about my beliefs.  You don't have to go looking to find them.

Don’t vote for McCain and help elect the socialist empty suit, Barry Obama.  That empty suit will have about 275 votes in the House and about 56 in the Senate.  The empty suit you want to vote for will have 375 votes in the House and about 90 in the Senate when he wants to pass leftist legislation.  When it comes to leftist legislation, you're setting up one party rule by trying to elect a man that will have no opposition, and Democrat and Republican support for the leftist stuff he wants to do.  I'd prefer the empty suit that will have some opposition.

Your ilk saves no one and yet you hold yourself in such high regard.  I have offered my opinion.  How does that reflect me holding myself in higher regard than you hold yourself when you offer up an opinion?  Good grief.  Get a grip.

The facyt that McCain can change his positions and is showing some signs of that makes zero impression on the self-righteous such as yourself.   Oh changing his mind is what John does best.   Name a topic John hasn't been on both sides of.  Seriously.

Got a perfect candidate to beat Obama? ... I didn’t think so.  No I don't.  But I will congratulate you on picking the perfect candidate to pass leftist aganda.  Democrats will vote for John's leftist nonsense because they want it.  Republicans will vote for it because they want quid pro quo and a political future.

Marginalize yourself some more for us ... it is instructive.  I hoped that it would be.  You many disagree with my final decison, but you can't deny what I am saying here is true if you'll give it some thought.

21 posted on 06/20/2008 12:19:39 PM PDT by DoughtyOne ( I say no to the Hillary Clinton wing of the Republican party. Not now or ever, John McCain...)
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To: DoughtyOne

Good points!


22 posted on 06/20/2008 12:22:21 PM PDT by apocalypto
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To: apocalypto

Thank you. I appreciate it.


23 posted on 06/20/2008 12:25:01 PM PDT by DoughtyOne ( I say no to the Hillary Clinton wing of the Republican party. Not now or ever, John McCain...)
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To: DoughtyOne
He even intercedes on behalf of Congressmen that are consumate abortion supporters against organizations trying to end abortions in this nation.

I disagree with McCain-Feingold, but that was what this was about, NOT about abortion rights. His principle about free speech was wrong, but to abandon it because of a specific issue would also be wrong.

Anyway, your list is impressive, although I'm not sure why we are supposed to fault John McCain for voting for a supreme court nominee that was nominated by Ronald Reagan, unless you think RR was some RINO.

24 posted on 06/20/2008 1:25:40 PM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: CharlesWayneCT

Charles, the best of Presidents have staff members that aren’t up to par. Perhaps Reagan should have known better with regard to Kennedy, but that’s where the Senate comes in.

They are given the review process for a reason. I will admit to Kennedy being somewhat of a gray area, because I haven’t studied his history. The fact of the matter is, John McCain voted to affirm four of the five worst sitting SCOTUS justices today.

If Kennedy were the only one John had voted for, I grant your arguement makes a lot of sense. Him voting for Ginsberg, Breyer, and Souter on top of Kennedy opens him up to ridicule for voting for all of them.

As for John remaining faithful to McCain/Feingold, he had no stake in the court battle where he filed an amicus brief.

His bill had passed, as I understand it, and he had no call to enter into this case at all.

Just because a person passes some legislation, they aren’t obligated to file an amicus brief for any case that involves it. And John choice of this case to interject his opinion on is disturbing.

Why would he chose to file an arguement against a Right to Life anti abortion organizion? What was the impetus? He could have looked the other way. There was no call for him to be involved that I know if.

If you can provide a reason, perhaps I’ll revise my opinion on it.


25 posted on 06/20/2008 5:36:54 PM PDT by DoughtyOne ( I say no to the Hillary Clinton wing of the Republican party. Not now or ever, John McCain...)
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