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Veterans Rebut ‘Swift Boat’ Charges Against Kerry in Answer to Challenge
NY Times ^ | June 22, 2008 | KATE ZERNIKE

Posted on 06/22/2008 11:27:28 AM PDT by neverdem

For most people, “Swift boat” has become a political verb, a synonym for the kind of attack that helped destroy the presidential campaign of Senator John Kerry in 2004.

But for a group of Vietnam veterans at the center of the attacks, it is still a fresh fight.

On Friday, the group, who served with Mr. Kerry in Vietnam, sent a letter to T. Boone Pickens, the billionaire Texas oilman who helped finance the 2004 attack advertisements, taking him up on a challenge he issued last November: that he would give $1 million to anyone who could disprove a single charge the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth made against Mr. Kerry.

The letter-writers served alongside Mr. Kerry during the events that the Swift boat group insisted he had embellished or made up to win his military decorations.

Identifying themselves as “patriotic, concerned veterans” they say the accusations of the Swift boat group damaged their reputations and deeply affected their families, “tarnished the sacrifices we made, called into question the medals we were awarded and challenged the very authenticity of our service.”

The group is working with Mr. Kerry, who himself seized on the challenge soon after Mr. Pickens made it at an American Spectator dinner. In a letter, he offered to meet with Mr. Pickens to rebut the charges. Mr. Pickens wrote back to say that he was good for his money, but that Mr. Kerry would have to provide his military record, the journal he kept in Vietnam and movies and tapes made in his tours there.

Mr. Pickens also qualified his challenge, saying he meant that someone would have to prove false things in the group’s television advertisements — putting aside a best-selling book and extensive news media interviews that attracted the bulk of the attention. He challenged...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; kerry; nothingnew; pickens; propagandawingofdnc; sbvft; swiftboat; swiftboatveterans; vietnam; vietnamvets
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Did anyone see Kerry's SF 180? His claims of heroism were small potatoes compared to how he slandered Vietnam Veterans in general, how he slandered the U.S.A.'s efforts against communism and how he ignored the horrors that ensued after the U.S.A.'s withdrawal of promised aid and assistance that he enabled. John Kerry is truly a POS. Don't forget his claim to a mission into Cambodia, while Nixon supposedly was President, when Nixon wasn't inaugurated yet.
1 posted on 06/22/2008 11:27:28 AM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Kerry broke the law when he went to Paris violating the Logan act which prohibits private citizens attempting to effect political change in conversations with representative of foreign governments. I bet his discharge was either a BCD or worse.


2 posted on 06/22/2008 11:33:07 AM PDT by spookie (SPOOKIE)
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To: neverdem

...how long has it been? Four years, and Kerry has still yet to set the record straight?


3 posted on 06/22/2008 11:34:40 AM PDT by ghost of nixon
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To: neverdem

4 posted on 06/22/2008 11:34:40 AM PDT by ConorMacNessa (HM/2 USN, 3/5 Marines, RVN 1969. St. Peregrine, patron saint of cancer patients, pray for us.)
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To: neverdem
Big Kerry rewrite of history going on at all the DBM papers. Maybe the socialist scribes think Kerry's gonna' be Obama's VP pick.

LOL... I'd love to see it... but I think Soros will insist on Webb.

5 posted on 06/22/2008 11:34:55 AM PDT by johnny7 ("Duck I says... ")
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To: neverdem
Don't forget his claim to a mission into Cambodia, while Nixon supposedly was President, when Nixon wasn't inaugurated yet.

When this was exposed it should have been huge news but the media glossed it over.

Kerry had been demonizing Nixon for years using the "Cambodia" reference, using this demonization to win office.

When it was revealed it wasn't true he should have been voted out immediately.

6 posted on 06/22/2008 11:35:31 AM PDT by what's up
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To: neverdem

Is Kerry still harping on this BS?

What an idiot.

“Kin I git me a huntin license here?”


7 posted on 06/22/2008 11:38:28 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

It appears Hanoi Boi has joined Algore as a bitter member of the Rejected “next President of the United States” Club.


8 posted on 06/22/2008 11:38:41 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (De-Globalize yourself !)
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To: neverdem

Give it up, Kerry. Face it. You’re a schmuck!


9 posted on 06/22/2008 11:40:43 AM PDT by CWWren (Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress....but I repeat myself.)
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To: neverdem

Give it up, Kerry. Face it. You’re a schmuck!


10 posted on 06/22/2008 11:40:56 AM PDT by CWWren (Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress....but I repeat myself.)
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To: what's up; All

11 posted on 06/22/2008 11:41:21 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

The Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have already been denounced by the Republican nominee , why is this an issue ?


12 posted on 06/22/2008 11:42:12 AM PDT by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know)
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To: neverdem

I’m surprised Kerry can even function with his head so far up Ted Kennedy’s butt..


13 posted on 06/22/2008 11:43:03 AM PDT by vietvet67
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To: neverdem
For most people, “Swift boat” has become a political verb, a synonym for the kind of attack that helped destroy the presidential campaign of Senator John Kerry in 2004.

As defined by the NYT, "most people" means "most liberal democrats living in New York City."

See, e.g., Pauline Kael, when reacting to Nixon's landslide election in 1972, "How can that be? No one I know voted for Nixon."

14 posted on 06/22/2008 11:43:04 AM PDT by Bubba_Leroy ("What's up with Whitey?" - Michelle Obama)
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To: neverdem

Why would they pursue this now? Does Kerry think he might be Obama’s VP choice, or is he really worried about being dumped from the Senate in the fall? The article says a “group” of vets who served with Kerry; it doesn’t give a specific number or their names. I can’t imagine there are too many of them if they’re thinking of sharing a million dollars.


15 posted on 06/22/2008 11:43:25 AM PDT by mass55th
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To: CWWren

Ya got yer petzle, a petzela and the putz...
Then there is the scmuckala...Thats when your such a big prick they need a truck to haul you around...


16 posted on 06/22/2008 11:45:23 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: vietvet67
"I’m surprised Kerry can even function with his head so far up Ted Kennedy’s butt.."

So that's the source of Ted Kennedy's brain tumor! I'll explain for those of you in Rio Linda:

Butt=brain

Kerry=tumor

17 posted on 06/22/2008 11:47:06 AM PDT by mass55th
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To: neverdem
"Identifying themselves as “patriotic, concerned veterans” they say the accusations of the Swift boat group damaged their reputations and deeply affected their families, “tarnished the sacrifices we made, called into question the medals we were awarded and challenged the very authenticity of our service.

Only the New York Slimes would be insane enough to turn the world backward!!!

It was KERRY's lies that did damage to Veterans...
It was the SBVFT who set the record straight and and put the truth against Kerry's lies.

In the New York Time - we are witnessing a dark force, with dark motives operating in the dark.....

Damn their asses!

All this attention to the SBVFT, gives me hope that there must be some VERY damaging truth about to be revealed about Obama -- which they are now attempting to prepare for by castings new charges against the SBVFT.....

18 posted on 06/22/2008 11:47:15 AM PDT by river rat (Semper Fi - You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: river rat

interesting theory


19 posted on 06/22/2008 11:49:15 AM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: mass55th
Why would they pursue this now?

Senatorial landscape in MA is changing with Kennedy's illness.

Kerry needs to find a controversial, ripe target fast for demonization; that is how he wins elections anyway.

Swift Boats is his choice.

20 posted on 06/22/2008 11:50:07 AM PDT by what's up
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To: spookie

A BCD results from sentence of court martial. Only a General Court Martial has jurisdiction over commissioned officers. The record of trial would be public, it is not a part of the service record. Kerry is hiding something else in his file.


21 posted on 06/22/2008 11:50:22 AM PDT by jimfree (Freep and Ye shall find.)
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To: river rat

Interesting that this is happening now given that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth formally stopped all operations on May 31, 2008.

http://www.swiftvets.com/

Now the anti-swifts can spread their lies without effective rebuttal.....or so it seems....we will see.


22 posted on 06/22/2008 11:52:44 AM PDT by HerrBlucher (Drill drill drill for oil offshore and on land merrily merrily merrily merrily environuts be damned)
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To: neverdem

It is his original DD-214 we’d like to see. The unrestricted .SF-180 is the means to that end


23 posted on 06/22/2008 11:52:51 AM PDT by NonValueAdded (If it is going to take 10 years, shouldn't we get started? Drill here, drill now, pay less.)
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To: neverdem

I am proud of the money I contributed to the swift boat vets.
I am proud of them. They shouldn’t have had to do what they did after giving so much already. Nobody wants to come under that kind attention from the MSM, and put themselves directly in front of the democrat sleaze machine.

But they did.

And they certainly helped save us from a President Kerry.
He certainly would have handed over Iraq to the terrorists long ago by now, and taxed our economy into shambles.


24 posted on 06/22/2008 11:53:10 AM PDT by Names Ash Housewares
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To: neverdem
A spokesman for Mr. Pickens, Jay Rosser, said the package had not arrived late Friday. Mr. Pickens — who has said he will not participate in partisan politics this presidential cycle — was traveling and could not be reached for comment.

So, no one has reviewed this "evidence" yet - this article is just a one-sided press release.

25 posted on 06/22/2008 11:54:22 AM PDT by Fido969 ("The hardest thing in the world to understand is income tax." - Albert Einstein)
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To: neverdem

“Identifying themselves as “patriotic, concerned veterans” they say the accusations of the Swift boat group damaged their reputations and deeply affected their families, “tarnished the sacrifices we made, called into question the medals we were awarded and challenged the very authenticity of our service.”

Give me a break, you spineless whiners!! What about what the Swift Vets went through for telling the truth? Death threats, calls in the middle of the night, excoriations in their hometown papers, etc. etc. They are the true heroes. The only medals called into question were the ones Kerry threw over the fence.


26 posted on 06/22/2008 11:54:52 AM PDT by Melinda
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To: neverdem

This is all about trying to deflect any 527’s going after Obama in the future. If Kerry can come out of this challenge with any modicum of success, even if he has to lie as before to do it, it will throw the pace off for other groups to go after Barry.


27 posted on 06/22/2008 11:59:01 AM PDT by Melinda
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To: ghost of nixon

“...how long has it been? Four years, and Kerry has still yet to set the record straight?”

STILL waiting for Kerry to release his military records as he promised.............


28 posted on 06/22/2008 11:59:55 AM PDT by Sun (Pray that God sends us good leaders. Please say a prayer now.)
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To: neverdem
Let's see, when an under which administration did the HERO get awarded his "Silver Star"?

And who wrote up his applications for his Purple Hearts?

And who stated that his fellow service members were dope crazed murders in the mold of "Jengas (his pronunciation) Kan"?

And who cut tail and ran when others stayed to fight?

I don't want to have a coronary incident here so I better quit.

The POS is and always will be a most heinous traitor in my educated opinion!!!!!

29 posted on 06/22/2008 12:00:11 PM PDT by ImpBill ("America, where are you now?")
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To: neverdem
damaged their reputations and deeply affected their families

Supporting a traitor can tend to have that affect.

30 posted on 06/22/2008 12:01:17 PM PDT by South40
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To: ImpBill

And Juan MacInsane supports Kerry and vilified the Swift Boat Vets!


31 posted on 06/22/2008 12:03:50 PM PDT by ImpBill ("America, where are you now?")
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To: neverdem
booo...


Yooo Hooo... I'm over HERE!!!
32 posted on 06/22/2008 12:04:46 PM PDT by Chode (American Hedonist ©® - CTHULHU/SHOGGOTH '08 = Nothing LESS!!!)
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To: neverdem
Am I the only one who finds it odd that this "group of Veterans" waited until after the Swift Boat Veterans and POWs for Truth formally disbanded to come forward?

Have they offered anything new? Has Kerry opened his full and complete record to the public? Will they produce the records and documentation Pickens requested from Kerry that were never supplied?

One has to ask, why has Kerry been so obtuse about allowing the public access to his records, when he demanded Bush and others to make full release of theirs?

Last year when Pickens issued the challenge, Kerry said, "It's beyond me; it's important for all the vets who served with me, who cared about it, whose own records were lied about. The problem is, it's the way they operate on the other side, and we have to end swift-boating forever. The way to do that is to have this public accounting."

Kerry lied about 2.5 million Veterans and we still wait for his "public accounting." Instead, we see concern over what, maybe 10 guys?

33 posted on 06/22/2008 12:10:02 PM PDT by DakotaRed (Complacent Americans and Spineless RINO's have allowed this to happen.)
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To: ghost of nixon
It has been four years. Communists like Kerry never reveal their true colors. Keeping the public ignorant and dependent is their business. I almost think that those who are induced to feed out of public trough like pigs, want politicians who are like them: pigs.
34 posted on 06/22/2008 12:10:32 PM PDT by jonrick46
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To: ImpBill

BS


35 posted on 06/22/2008 12:11:08 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

2004

• August 20 — “The Times Attacks the Swift Vets”
The Times finally devotes a front-page story to the Swift Boat veterans challenging John Kerry’s Vietnam war record—but it follows a pattern reminiscent of the Clinton scandal days in focusing on the subjects making the attack instead of the actual anti-Democratic charges raised, an angle clear from the headline, “Friendly Fire: The Birth of an Attack on Kerry.”

August 24 — More Anti-Swift Bias from a Paper “Calling Itself” Objective

Elisabeth Bumiller and Kate Zernike’s front-page story on Bush denouncing outside political ads includes a dismissive description of the Swift Boat Vets. Also: What about the “web of ties” between the left-wing Moveon.org and the Kerry campaign?

• September 7 — Reviving an Anti-Bush Sr. Urban Legend
Kate Zernike revives an anti-Bush Sr. urban legend, the myth that during the 1992 campaign, George H.W. Bush marveled at a grocery-store scanner as if he’d never seen one before.

http://tinyurl.com/6xapjg

******

2003

The Times’ white alleged reporter who dramatically botched a story, was Kate Zernike; the story was on the reaction, or lack thereof, to the June, 2000 U.S. Supreme Court decision upholding the Boys Scouts of America’s ban on gay scout leaders. Kate Zernike’s August 29, 2000 front page story, reported that “corporate and governmental support for the organization had slipped markedly,” citing the withdrawal of monetary support by Chase Manhattan, Merill Lynch and Textron. As William McGowan chronicles in Coloring the News, Zernike was found to have written one falsehood after another, including her suggestion that many parents of boy scouts were opposed to the policy, and that, as McGowan put it, “a grassroots rebellion … could be in the offing.”

“Not a week later, though, the Times was forced to run a mortifying, five-paragraph correction undercutting almost every one of Zernike’s contentions.”

Was Kate Zernike fired? Not at all. Was she reprimanded? Of course not. On the contrary, if anything, in supporting the campaign against Boy Scouts of America led by the mainstream media’s “gay mafia,” Zernike’s lies enhanced her standing at the Times.

http://tinyurl.com/6escuz

******

January 24, 2007

Kate Zernike’s front-page profile of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (featuring a large picture of Pelosi shaking Bush’s hand at last night’s State of the Union address) opened with a celebration of Pelosi’s femaleness and ends with “poignant commentary” by the left’s new favorite Bush fighter, Democrat Sen. James Webb of Virginia.

******

May 29, 2006

Kate Zernike Reporting For Duty

The New York Times’ reporter of things John Kerry saluted Kerry’s latest version of his service in Vietnam in her lengthy, uncritical and uninformed recitation of Kerry’s “evidence” that he was wronged by the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth.

Ms. Zernike’s crack, or should I say cracked, reporting skills apparently do not include even including the few facts she does know.

Her latest piece of puffery begins:

John Kerry starts by showing the entry in a log he kept from 1969: “Feb 12: 0800 run to Cambodia.”

He moves on to the photographs: his boat leaving the base at Ha Tien, Vietnam; the harbor; the mountains fading frame by frame as the boat heads north; the special operations team the boat was ferrying across the border; the men reading maps and setting off flares.
“They gave me a hat,” Mr. Kerry says. “I have the hat to this day,” he declares, rising to pull it from his briefcase. “I have the hat.”

http://tinyurl.com/6ahx92

Omitted from Ms. Zernike’s story is any mention of what she said when interviewed by CNN’s Aaron Brown on August 23, 2004:

BROWN: …The one issue the Senator has some problems on I think is this Cambodia, fair?
ZERNIKE: Right. Right.
BROWN: He says he was there on Christmas and the record doesn’t seem to support that.
ZERNIKE: No, in fact, if you look in “Tour of Duty” by Douglas Brinkley, which is his biography, or a biography of the Senator, he’s somewhere else on December 25th, on Christmas Eve and on Christmas Day. Brinkley himself says there’s some question Kerry may have been in Cambodia later.

So, now, Kerry reveals one line from his journal – which he refuses to share with the public — to say he was, according even to the New York Times’ display of the supposed evidence, “35 miles from the border.” No mention by Zernike of Kerry’s previous false claims to have been in Cambodia on Christmas Eve or Christmas Day.

The expose in Unfit For Command of Kerry’s exaggerations and lies in his staged Brinkley bio relied upon Kerry’s own words and the differing eyewitness and knowledgeable accounts of those who also served in the same unit.

Sorry, Ms. Zernike, your salute to John Kerry rings as hollow as his at his nomination.


36 posted on 06/22/2008 12:14:33 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: Melinda
This is all about trying to deflect any 527’s going after Obama in the future. If Kerry can come out of this challenge with any modicum of success, even if he has to lie as before to do it, it will throw the pace off for other groups to go after Barry.

GIVE THE LADY A KEWPIE DOLL!!! This is EXACTLY what is at play here! I read this editorial a couple of days ago.....

It’s just political smut

You’ve probably heard a few of these claims and perhaps even forwarded an e-mail or two.

Barack Obama uses illicit drugs.

He’s a closet Muslim who was sworn in to the U.S. Senate on a Quran.

He doesn’t say the Pledge of Allegiance.

His wife uttered a racially charged epithet from a church pulpit.

Never mind that none of this is true, or that we’ve missed a slander or two. Shhhh, his children are black and so is his wife. Pass it on.

Dirty tricks aren’t new to American politics — 19th-century campaigns were laced with accusations of infidelity, substance abuse, cross-dressing and treason. But that doesn’t justify the vile cyber-assaults on Obama. These attacks are more than political mischief, or even legitimate hardball opposition research to detect flip-flops. These outrageous and disgusting fabrications exploit the worst instincts about race and religion in America at a time when this nation is trying hard to transcend those differences. To his credit, Obama, who is perhaps the most Internet-savvy presidential candidate ever, has started Fight the Smears, a Web site to directly confront the rumors and whispers.

Today, a single button on a computer can propel a lie worldwide. Unchallenged accusations can quickly be accepted as fact because information passed from friend to friend carries an imprimatur of truth.That makes a distortion politically damaging even if it is blatantly untrue. Remember the Swift Boat allegations against Sen. John Kerry four years ago and racial whispers during the 2000 South Carolina primary suggesting that Sen. John McCain had fathered a black child?

Some of this filth now passes for legitimate discussion. Fox News recently apologized for inadvertently portraying Michelle Obama’s onstage greeting with her husband as one half of a “terrorist fist jab,” a characterization that originated on the Web. Later, Fox News labeled her “Obama’s baby mama” in a graphic, a tacky reference suggesting she’s an unwed mother. And yes, another apology.

We live in the Information Age. Unfortunately, information isn’t the same as truth.

— The Dallas Morning News.

37 posted on 06/22/2008 12:16:48 PM PDT by digger48 (http://prorev.com/legacy.htm)
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To: Melinda
This is all about trying to deflect any 527’s going after Obama in the future.

Really? I thought it was about returning 'Vietnam' and 'heroism' to center stage so that people will be reminded what a metrosexual weenie Obama is compared to McCain. I don't understand why any Democrat would want to do this, and I certainly don't understand why The New York Times would want to help. But hey, it's their money. Go Times!


38 posted on 06/22/2008 12:18:55 PM PDT by Nick Danger (Ding dong the witch is dead!)
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To: kcvl

Remember when that asshat jaunted around the bay with 2 or 3 of his swift boat buddys posing as heros and then the salute at convention and the “REPORTING FOR DOODEY”?

LoL! L0L!

what a jerk


39 posted on 06/22/2008 12:19:39 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

KATE ZERNIKE

June 05, 2006
Someone else noticed Kate Zernike's failure to report

At Real Clear Politics, Thomas Lipscomb complains that New York Times reporter Kate Zernike showed no journalistic curiosity at all in her May 28 report on Sen. John Kerry's long-delayed "response" to some of the questions about his Vietnam War experience.

Lipscomb reminds us that The Times did its best during the 2004 presidential campaign not to report on the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth," who alleged that Kerry did not earn his Purple Hearts and Bronze Star in the manner he claimed, was not in Cambodia on Christmas 1968 as he claimed, and unfairly smeared all U.S. troops in Vietnam as Genghis Khan-like barbarians.

With no effort or investigation, The Times repeatedly referred to the claims of Kerry's Swift Boat antagonists as "unsubstantiated." Lipscomb says:

http://tinyurl.com/635uck

40 posted on 06/22/2008 12:21:27 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: digger48

DMN is a liberal rag


41 posted on 06/22/2008 12:21:38 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: kcvl

YARK!


42 posted on 06/22/2008 12:22:34 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem
This article is as biased as they come. It is slanted and full of lies. The Swift Boat Vets are heroes.

Now if the media did their job, they would have pressured Kerry to sign the Form 180 and release his military records. But Kerry did not because he has a LESS THAN HONORABLE DISCHARGE on his record.

43 posted on 06/22/2008 12:23:29 PM PDT by KC_Conspirator
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To: kcvl

bttt


44 posted on 06/22/2008 12:25:18 PM PDT by Matchett-PI (Driving a Phase Two Operation Chaos Hybrid that burns both gas AND rubber.)
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To: KC_Conspirator

Dear KATE ZERNIKE,

Provide Kerry’s signed 180! End of discussion!

Sincerely,

“The American People”


45 posted on 06/22/2008 12:26:10 PM PDT by kcvl
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To: HerrBlucher

I was actually sorry to hear the SBVT’s were going to stop at ending Kerry’s presidential run. Why not keep going & get his sorry a** thrown out of the Senate? Maybe this will be a call for them to come back & finish the job!


46 posted on 06/22/2008 12:26:36 PM PDT by Twotone
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To: mylife
DMN is a liberal rag

It was the lead editorial in my local central Indiana newspaper. Also very left-leaning, but it certainly reveals the Lefts preferred tactics.

47 posted on 06/22/2008 12:26:57 PM PDT by digger48 (http://prorev.com/legacy.htm)
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To: digger48

I cant stand the DMN.

I hate to even glance at the front page


48 posted on 06/22/2008 12:30:26 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem
How interesting. An article in the NY Times that says that "not one, but several" of the charges were rebutted. But it doesn't give a single example of a charge that was rebutted. That strikes me as bad reporting. How about you?

Congressman Billybob

Latest article, "Barack (Rorschach) Obama"

49 posted on 06/22/2008 12:32:47 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob ( www.ArmorforCongress.com)
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To: neverdem

I get really tired of the media using the phrase ‘swift boating’ in the context they do.

As though it was unfounded smears.

It was truth revealed ...


50 posted on 06/22/2008 12:39:16 PM PDT by altura (McCain for President - or, as I call it, NOBama.)
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