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To: Twinkie
When a pastors no longer teach righteousness, holiness, godliness, and speak truth to a corrupt and deceived generation, we have slipped to the bottom of the slope.

Four years ago, at my former church, two of us tried to get people involved in supporting the Federal Marriage Amendment. The pastor didn't support what we were doing (didn't want to get involved in “politics” even though this was a clear moral issue). At the time I said, “Pastor, if this doesn't pass, one day there will be “gay marriage” in CA and it will be too late. Silence.

Some of it has to do with fear of the IRS, but we are to please God rather then man. We are in dire need of strong Godly leadership in the Church because it is greatly lacking.

37 posted on 06/25/2008 9:28:25 AM PDT by 444Flyer (Marriage=One man+One woman! Vote to amend the California State Constitution this November.)
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To: 444Flyer

This is the kind of post that causes me to despair. It is a terrible mistake to try and demonize Obama on religious grounds with a view to weakening him politically. Obama is a very slick political force, even more clever than Clinton. He does not get drawn into fights he does not want to have.

He already knows he cannot lose the religious debate. If, he loses the fight with Dobson 75% to 25% among evangelicals, he is ahead by 25% from the last election. It was reported on CNN yesterday that Obama may already be polling as high as 35% among evangelicals. More important, he cannot lose this debate among Catholics and especially Jews. By escalating the religious elements of this debate it will allow Obama to further soften (clarify) his position on abortion (which he will). He will take the position that he holds sacred the right of the woman to choose, at the same time, he will affirm the sanctity of all human life and call for specific measures to dramatically reduce the number of abortions among young woman. I would even venture that he might propose funding and call on the faith communities to lead this initiative. It will allow him to appear to be the reasonable man, except for the most militant activist who acutely oppose abortion.

The only way to defeat Obama is on pure policy issues. These religious distractions and the attacks on his character only provide him with more ammunition to ramp up the “change” theme of his campaign.


38 posted on 06/25/2008 10:20:37 AM PDT by spatso
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To: 444Flyer

This is the kind of post that causes me to despair. It is a terrible mistake to try and demonize Obama on religious grounds with a view to weakening him politically. Obama is a very slick political force, even more clever than Clinton. He does not get drawn into fights he does not want to have.

He already knows he cannot lose the religious debate. If, he loses the fight with Dobson 75% to 25% among evangelicals, he is ahead by 25% from the last election. It was reported on CNN yesterday that Obama may already be polling as high as 35% among evangelicals. More important, he cannot lose this debate among Catholics and especially Jews. By escalating the religious elements of this debate it will allow Obama to further soften (clarify) his position on abortion (which he will). He will take the position that he holds sacred the right of the woman to choose, at the same time, he will affirm the sanctity of all human life and call for specific measures to dramatically reduce the number of abortions among young woman. I would even venture that he might propose funding and call on the faith communities to lead this initiative. It will allow him to appear to be the reasonable man, except for the most militant activist who acutely oppose abortion.

The only way to defeat Obama is on pure policy issues. These religious distractions and the attacks on his character only provide him with more ammunition to ramp up the “change” theme of his campaign.


39 posted on 06/25/2008 10:20:50 AM PDT by spatso
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