Skip to comments.Forget the Birth Certificate. There Are More Relevant Records. (Obama)
Posted on 06/26/2008 12:22:15 PM PDT by Shermy
More than a few readers have asked me what I think of this article from a publication called the Israel Insider, particularly a section which suggests a Hawaiian state official has doubts about the birth certificate posted on Daily Kos and Obamas StopTheSmears site:
Janice Okubo, Director of Communications of the State of Hawaii Department of Health, told Israel Insider: "At this time there are no circumstances in which the State of Hawaii Department of Health would issue a birth certification or certification of live birth only electronically." And, she added, "In the State of Hawaii all certified copies of certificates of live birth have the embossed seal and registrar signature on the back of the document."
I spoke to Ms. Okubo late Wednesday afternoon, and she said she had seen the version of Obamas certificate of live birth posted on the sites. While her office cannot verify the information on a form without the permission of the certificate holder (Obama), she said "the form is exactly the same" and it has "all the components of a birth certificate" record issued by the state. In other words, she sees no reason to think the version posted on Obama's web site and Daily Kos is not genuine.
The embossed seal in question is, she said, probably on the back of the document provided to Daily Kos, but not visible (as in another certificate posted on Israel Insider for contrast). She thinks the difference in visibility can be attributed to the pressure used when applying the seal.
I know I was one of the guys who wondered if there was something there when Obama initially refused to provide his birth certificate to PolitiFact. It seems many people continue to think that they will uncover something that will prove Obama was born in Kenya and is therefore ineligible for office of the presidency. As I wrote in the initial post, this scenario is rather unlikely, as it would require everyone in his family to lie about this in every interview and discussion with those outside the family since young Obama appeared on the scene. I would add this would require Obama to lie about his birthplace in every interview going back to Harvard Law.
There are, however, other documents in the past of the Democratic nominee that would be worth a close examination. For example, they may not even exist anymore a convenient destruction but Obamas office records from his service in the state legislature, particularly the correspondence, would be an interesting resource in learning more about his efforts in state government.
The Illinois State Archives told Judicial Watch that they never received any request from Senator Obama to archive any records in his possession. Similarly, in 2007, Obama said to Tim Russert that his records were not kept.
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So you say, making a claim that is extremely dubious, probably irrelevent to any real issue of qualification (Obama is certainly an natural born citizen of the US), and certainly unproven to even this die-hard opponent of Obama.
http://no-bama.blogspot.com/ - NObama, stop the Hype and Chains candidate
Ink from signature block + date stampping clearly visible.
Amazing, ain’t it?
The claim is not dubious. It is amply demonstrated.
3) Used legal tricks to keep Alice Palmer off the ballot in 1996 so he could win his first race.
4) ... who knows, maybe he will get the North Vietnamese commies to release the POW records on McCain to prove he was broken by the torture.
What do you expect her to do?
HI is a Democrat stronghold.
Most likely all the people at the DOH are Democrats.
In Illinois....we elect our public officals to take care of our birth certificates in our county.
If she knew the truth...the guys with black bow ties will be at her door.
This green form is what is issued today. BUT, my official birth certificate from the Territory of Hawaii (1957) and I beleive also into the 60s looks absolutely nothing like this. Thsi form simply takes information on file and puts it on a new form then “certifies” it by the registrar. The original is something completely different. I have both my adopted birth certificate and later filed one for live birth. Totally different from teh modern form and also has a lot more information like place of birth, doctor, etc.
I thought the rub here was he did not want to highlight his middle name Hussein?!?
She doesn't know?
She's a knucklehead.
She could do a two-second document search through Hawaii's data base to find Obama's birth records. Obama could speed that up by given her the BC document number that is blacked out if he really knows what it is.
...worth a thousand words.
Not to me. We have no reason to believe its not real. I’ve read the commentary on why its not. Its simply not convincing and not relevant even if it might be true.
Of you want to prove Obama a liar, it’s a lot easier to point to his brazen broken promise on campaign financing. Obama is starting to tell lies with great rapidity. Just not about where he was born.
“Ans also Ms. Okubo, where is the official signature from your office on Obama’s Birth Certificate sport?”
The author didn’t ask that question. Probably thought because it was on the back side it wouldn’t be visible.
Simple solution: pressure the Obama camp to allow others to personally examine it.
Another scenario: the document is “not regulation”, he obtained it illegally with an insider in the Dept. of Health in 2007 in order to test the waters—see what it would look like. Satisfied, in June 2008 he ordered one on the up and up, but one of his minions posted the wrong document.
Unfortunately there is no way to guarantee that copies of the front and back are from the same document. He could present the back ANY copied Hawaii birth certificate and claim it was his.
I find too much overemphasis on trivial points about Obama and Michelle while important issues are ignored. I would like to have his questioned, among many other issues, on
*Kosovo - Does he agree with Clinton/Bush/McCain?
*his position on amnesty and an explanation for his vote against the Cronyn amendment
Hey, why not? It seems to have worked for Jerry Rivera.
Affirmative action is another issues he should clarify.
“We have no reason to believe....”
You may have no reason to believe it is a forgery, I have multiple reasons why I know it is.
1) the FACT that the Obama website document and the KOS version have different alignments on the borders. They are supposed to be the same document, but they are not.....meaning that one or both had this electronically and altered it.
2) Multiple experts in graphic programs have declared it to be a fraud due to the critical info (names, dates) having been photoshopped into the document. All of the analyzes have been posted on FR.
3) The blackout of the cert number is computer generated. So OBVIOUSLY someone doctored the document. It did not come that way from Hawaii.
4) The border hatch grid is at odds with all of the other samples of HAwaii certifications of live birth that have been produced. How could that be?
5) The document is a computer generated jpg, without a doubt. Meaning that it was not a hard copy that was scanned. Hawaii does not release these electronically, according to their own spokeswoman, so how could it have been a jpg created directly from the computer?
And since it is a forgery, and Obama is posting it caliming it as legit, there better damn well be a heavy price to pay for this fraudulence, even if the info contained in it is accurate.
Simple solution: pressure the Obama camp to allow others to personally examine it.
Simple, apparently not for Obama.
The Kos clowns or Obama clowns can scan the back side and publish it online if the signature is there.
Another scenario: the document is not regulation, he obtained it illegally with an insider in the Dept. of Health in 2007 in order to test the waterssee what it would look like. Satisfied, in June 2008 he ordered one on the up and up, but one of his minions posted the wrong document.
Yes, many government docs are online, on CDs. Now Gov forms and documents are an open electronic file cabinet, but without official signatures and other certifying marks they are not valid. So you are saying that the Obama people are either incompetent or deceptive. I'd say they are both incompetent and deceptive.
Well, speak for yourself ... we do have reasons and we've given them.
Could you do me a favor, could you post in your own words the reasons you've heard that we have to claim the cert is a forgery?
Especially since Kenya didn't even exist in 1961. From 1856 until 1963 it was British East Africa and included the present countries of Kenya, Uganda and Tanganyika.
A lot of people keep squawking about Obama showing documentation. I suggest these same people show documentation that he was born elsewhere. BTW, blog & forum entries no matter how well reasoned are NOT documentation. A birth certificate from another country would be documentation. A passenger manifest with his mother's name on it would be documentation. A copy of his naturalization records to become a U.S. citizen would be documentation.
The Obama campaign has been extraordinarily intelligent to get him to where he is today. To think that they would present a document to the public with this many points of interest on it is ridiculous. They saw what happened to Dan Rather & I can guarantee that a perfect document can be produced with the money his campaign has available to spend.
Asking 'why doesn't he do so and so' isn't proof of squat. "Where's the bleed through from the back?" Isn't proof of anything either. One would have to evaluate thousands of Hawai'ian birth certificates to even get to a point of statistical significance. How does one prove that what is believed to be 'bleed through' isn't in fact 'cast off' from another document.
"the certificate, after all, has some serial number! That is part of her official duty, imo. Has she not performed her duty? Has she not performed her duty?" ... someone writes. Get serious! Show me in her job description where it says she is to respond to bloggers and phone calls about a subject she is sworn NOT to discuss with anyone without a need to know. BTW Jim Geraghty is not on a need to know basis.
These threads are nuttier than tilting at windmills.