Skip to comments.Unstamped certificate suggests Obama may not be "natural born" US citizen (Updated 6/26)
Posted on 06/27/2008 2:51:17 PM PDT by Red Steel
Janice Okubo, in response to an Israeli Insider question on Tuesday, would not confirm nor deny whether she had told a St. Petersburg Times reporter whether she had said the birth certificate was "real", citing the statutory stipulation that "Hawaii state law (HRS §338-18) prevents disclosure of information contained in vital statistics records except to those people who have a direct and tangible interest in the record as defined by statute." This would, however, seem to negate the propriety of any disclosure by her of confidential information.
Jim Geraghty of The National Review Online, following up on this Israel Insider report, said he had contacted Okubo:
"I spoke to Ms. Okubo late Wednesday afternoon, and she said she had seen the version of Obama's certificate of live birth posted on the sites. While her office cannot verify the information on a form without the permission of the certificate holder (Obama), she said "the form is exactly the same" and it has 'all the components of a birth certificate' record issued by the state. In other words, she sees no reason to think the version posted on Obama's web site and Daily Kos is not genuine."
"The 'embossed seal' in question is, she said, probably on the back of the document provided to Daily Kos, but not visible (as in another certificate posted on Israel Insider for contrast). She thinks the difference in visibility can be attributed to the pressure used when applying the seal."
Geraghty's interpretation of Okubo's comments is inexact and tendentious. First, her observation that "the form is the same" is not contested, here or elsewhere. No one is doubting that the form that appears on the various websites (including this one) is a replica of that used for valid certificates. Therefore Geraght's interpretation that follows "In other words" is clearly his own conclusion, not hers.
Indeed, Okubo confirms to Geraghty that the image is lacking the "embossed seal" (and the official signature) that are required for the certificate to be valid. While "she thinks" that the difference in visibility might be attributed to varying "pressure," she admits that she does not know and has not seen the original.
Contrasting the purported Obama image with the DeCosta sample, it is hard to imagine the embossed seal and signature being of such light pressure that they would become completely invisible. An inked date of June 6, 2007, in reverse, does come through. But in any event, Okubo's confirmation that the premsumptive birth certificate is lacking the required stamps makes it all the more imperative for Obama to release the original paper certification, the only valid kind, and not an easy-to-photoshop electronic facsimile thereof. It should not be hard to produce, since Hawaii provides for family members to request them.
Even though Geraghy notes that Obama "initially refused to provide his birth certificate," he has suggested that it is "rather unlikely" that Obama was born in Kenya, since it would require that the candidate and his family do a lot of lying. In fact, there were reports of Kenyati relatives claiming he was born there, and there is the mysterious disappearance of his grandmother, who may indeed know something about this subject.
After all, being born in Hawaii is part of the "family legend" and it would be unreasonable to expect this to vary from interview to interview, especially when a non-Hawaiian birth would invalidate Obama's run for the presidency.
It is indeed hard to believe that Obama could have gone through his life without having to prove that he was an American citizen. But the credulity with which the mainstream media has automatically accepted as valid the image that appears on the radical left Daily Kos blog and on the Obama campaign's polemical "Fight the Smears" website makes it clear that many have been unwilling, now and in the past, to demand proof of an authentic document. They prefer to accept on faith that the candidate or his campaign would not lie about such a thing, assuming he has nothing to hide and no motive to lie.
But until the certified paper birth document is produced -- either by media pressure or a legal challenge in any state -- the fact remains that Obama has not proven that he is a "natural born citizen" eligible to be President according to the Constitution.
Hawaii state law (HRS §338-18) prevents disclosure of information contained in vital statistics records except to those people who have a direct and tangible interest in the record as defined by statute.”
In any court of law he would be deemed to have waived that already.
The story that won’t go away.
I assume they are kidding. Honest OOOBBBAAAMMMAAA? BS
Somebody with deep pockets is going to have to go to court and demand prood of Obama’s eligibility to run for office...
I’m sure all kinds of back-ground checks have been run already, even colleges often demand sometype of birth proof...for loans and what have you. I had to produce mine when I went to college and I am the same age as Obama!
This is good and others are reporting this across the country. Furthermore, the Democrats have no morals, no scruples, and they hate our Constitution.
How dare they try to place someone in the Oval Office who is not a Natural Born Citizen? The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, and Article II Sections 2, 4 are very self-explanatory.
The Marxists must be stopped!
Consider this possibility:
...meanwhile, people are building more and more of a case for Obama to play the victim of unfair treatment, when he finally releases the real McCoy...which shows he was born in Hawaii.
Then Obama will be charged with deceptive tactics by misleading the public for political gain.
In the case of Obama campaigning for the highest office in the land:
(1) Why won’t he produce a valid certificate for proof; and,
(2) Why would he attempt to run for President knowing the requirement was a necessity - which he could have clarified years ago when he ran for Senate.
This is a matter for the people of the United States to have the RIGHT TO INSIST this man is a credible candidate.
Yep...me thinks Obama knows the Br’er Rabbit stories well!
A Free Press insists that there is a very tangible interest to out a presidential candidate who may be INELLIGIBLE for the job.
Take this matter to the courts. Let more eyes get to see the original certification.
I don't recall Dan Rather or the cohorts within the DNC being charged under any such statutes when they presented forged documents as an October Surprise to sway an election.
I don't recall anyone being charged with a criminal act for forging the letters.
I think someone will take this to court sometime before November.
Democrats don't use banks. They have backers who co-sign for their homes.
Remember the Clintons? Remember this guy who is on trial now?
I should have said ‘accuse’ his campaign instead of ‘charge’.
O.K., it’s time for an FBI background check on Obambi. If he’s not a natural-born citizen he can’t be POTUS.
“The story that wont go away.”
Drive-by media reporters successfully sued to get access to SEALED court orders on the PRIVATE custody battle between Obama Senate opponent Jack Ryan and his wife — and nobody in power gave a damn about protecting the child, which is why the documents were sealed. The “public interest” was the excuse given by the court.
Why doesn’t someone sue to get a real, certified copy of the ORIGINAL Obama birth certificate from Hawaii — if there is one? Much more than the Ryan records, it should be a public document and people should have a right to see it — whether the state wants to release it or not!
The hypocrisy from the left knows no bounds.
1) had sealed divorce records of his Democrat primary opponent Blair Hull exposed, revealing accusations of wife-beating and forcing Hull out of the primary, and
2) had sealed divorce records of his Republican opponent Jack Ryan exposed, revealing accusations of wanting to perform public sex acts and forcing Ryan out of the general election.
It seems that Obama can't win without destroying his opponent by exposing sealed private records. So now, people want Obama's records exposed, and there aren't any, anwhere?
This would require an affirmative ruling by the court and could create situation where a special master could be the “controller” of the documentation and rule one way or the other.
I heard from the MSM (CBS?) that in his first primary, Obama forced out a candidate by ruling her inelligible (did not have every i dotted and every t crossed).
What’s good for the goose...
McCain’s dad was serving in the military. A US base is not US territory? Our embassies are US territory too.
Obama’s dad was not a citizen. And he was already married. And he was gone by age 2.
I agree with you. But don’t forget that we were just one justice’s opinion away from having the Second Amendment declared unconstitutional. Liberals will do anything to attain power.
Let’s make this a non-issue by insuring he is defeated at the polls.
He does not care about the fools in his camp.
He does not care about the multiple deceptions that he presents.
He does not care about the taxpayer dollars that he takes.
He does not care about anyone or anything except himself.
He is an extortionist, a thug and a racist.
I hope that is all he will ever be.
You gotta love the hypocricy. Obama:
1) Challenged qualifying signatures on all his Illinois State Senate Democrat primary opponents' applications (see Alice Palmer), running unopposed,
2) had sealed divorce records of his Democrat primary opponent Blair Hull exposed, revealing accusations of wife-beating and forcing Hull out of the primary,
1) had sealed divorce records of his Republican opponent Jack Ryan exposed, revealing accusations of wanting to perform public sex acts and forcing Ryan out of the general election.
It seems that Obama can't win without legal technicalities or by destroying his opponent by exposing sealed private records. So now, people want Obama's records exposed, and there aren't any, anwhere?
Or “What goes around comes around...”
Either way, a test case in US court would quickly end this issue once and for all.
Why is the certificate # blacked out?
African is not a race! In 1961, wouldn't Negro or Negroid have been used to describe his Father's race instead of African?
Where is the indentation of the official seal and the folded marks, the rest of us have on our valid birth certificate copies?
Last but not least: What are the reverse purple lettering past the last entry line on the lower middle right? What do they mean, and why are they there?
Did Dan Blather's former liar/inept forgier, Mary Mapes create this bs?
Is this phoney birth certificate just another example of the Real but Fake Hussein ObamaMessiaHamas, the Islamofacist Manchurian Candidate for Changing America?
Compare this doctored and phoney BC with a real one shown below:
We probably have as much chance of seeing a real copy of his birth certificate as seeing John Kerrys full military record. Kerry refused to release his military records, and Hussein ObamaMessiaHamas, the Islamofacist Manchurian Candidate will probably not show his BC. We will be labeled as racists for daring to question his birth.
Oh without a doubt, and the good thing, Senator McCain was very pleased with the ruling.
But, I haven’t found Senator McCain’s remarks on the Supreme Court Ruling where the Justices struck down part of Campaign Finance Reform. Senator McCain will run from any comments on the CFR ruling in order to keep from having foot in mouth disease after he helped to orchestrate the horrible piece of legislation.
“Somebody with deep pockets is going to have to go to court and demand proof of Obamas eligibility to run for office...”
It will be dangerous and costly. And it would likely take a Democrat for reasons of standing. Just being a citizen probably won’t cut it.
And still it could go either way. There is enough stare decisis out there to decide against disclosure first and find case law later.
Because he's a lawyer?
How? Because some people doubt that the image of the form he released is valid?
The Hawaii Department of Health receives about a dozen e-mail inquiries a day about Obamas birth certificate, spokesman Okubo said.
I guess the big issue thats being raised is the lack of an embossed seal and a signature, Okubo said, pointing out that in Hawaii, both those things are on the back of the document. Because they scanned the front you wouldnt see those things.
Okubo says she got a copy of her own birth certificate last year and it is identical to the Obama one we received.
And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.
I've come to the conclusion that Okubo is covering the best she can for Obama.
Okubo: Because they scanned the front you wouldnt see those things.
BS. Patricia Decosta's Birth Certificate shows the certifying markings from a scan of the front.
Okubo: And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.
More BS. The dude must have super xray vision. But Ms. Okubo, you just told us that "you wouldn't see those things" from a front side scan of a Hawaiian birth certificate.
Ms. Okubo, why don't the Obama people rescan the document using a higher resolution scanning, the front and back, and republish it back online? I'm waiting miss Okubo...it wouldn't take the Obama people more than 2 minutes to do the job. Are they incompetent or do they have something to hide?
The black box that redacts the birth certificate was done by a computer.
Who did that? Obama or the state of Hawaii?
Doesn't that statute say that a relative qualifies? I still say we should get cousin Dick Cheney to request a copy of Obama's birth certificate!
Hell, don’t we *all* have a direct and tangible interest??
Last time I look, Hussein threw her under the bus in his "race" speech. Perhaps they ought to look there.
My question to them, the Obama campaign, is why didn't they do that in the first place? Why did they take soooo long? Are you guys incompetent or are you guys using deceptive tactics? It sure appears you guys are being deceptive. I know they knew about the controversy that is simmering on the web about the birth certificate, which brings me back to the first question, why did they take so long?
You think you can make that stick...? Or will it be, “we released a scan of the legitimate document...but look at the paranoia in these people, that they hounded me to go out of my way to submit to their ridiculous demands, in their hopes to distract me from my campaign of change...”?
Funny...if they went to the trouble to get a fake Hawaii certificate, do you think they wouldn’t just fake embossing?!?
Once I went to get a certified copy of a death certificate and the clerk prepared it in front of me. They had the paper under lock and key at the vital records office. I remarked that I thought that was odd, and she responded that the plain paper goes for hundreds on the street.
I am wondering if just a bit of plain vital records paper somehow escaped Honolulu. It is just too strange. No signature. No certification.
paranoia in these people
Paranoia? On the contrary, the questions about the irregularities that appear in your birth certificate that your campaign published online are reasonable, especially since you are running for president.
A 1,000 dollar question.
She appears here ... for a whole 4 seconds.