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NRA sues to overturn San Francisco gun ban in city housing
Mercury News ^ | 6/27/08 | Howard Mintz

Posted on 06/27/2008 9:17:26 PM PDT by NormsRevenge

The National Rifle Association today filed a lawsuit challenging San Francisco's ban on handguns in public housing, trying to capitalize on the U.S. Supreme Court's historic ruling finding a constitutional right to own guns for self-defense in the home.

In a lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court in San Francisco, lawyers for gun rights advocates are asking a federal judge to invalidate San Francisco's handgun law based on the Supreme Court's decision striking down a broader Washington, D.C. law forbidding residents to own handguns.


(Excerpt) Read more at mercurynews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; Politics/Elections; US: California
KEYWORDS: banglist; cityhousing; gunban; lawsuit; nra; overturn; pinkpistols; publichousing; sanfrancisco; secondamendment; shallnotbeinfringed; sues
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1 posted on 06/27/2008 9:17:26 PM PDT by NormsRevenge
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To: NormsRevenge
It is good strategery to have a plaintiff with an angle the local jurors can understand and relate to .
2 posted on 06/27/2008 9:20:50 PM PDT by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know)
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To: NormsRevenge

9th district? Hmmmmmm?!


3 posted on 06/27/2008 9:20:54 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (If everyone stays home and no one votes will Congress disappear?)
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To: NormsRevenge

Go get ‘em, guys.


4 posted on 06/27/2008 9:23:50 PM PDT by eclecticEel (men who believe deeply in something, even wrong, usually triumph over men who believe in nothing)
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To: NormsRevenge

***who is a gay man living in a San Francisco Housing Authority unit who said in court papers that he keeps a gun in his home to protect himself against hate crimes based on his sexual orientation.***

hmmmm...so if I call him a fudge-packer which to libs is a “hate crime”, then that gives this “gay man” a reason to shoot me??

Wow.(sarc/)


5 posted on 06/27/2008 9:24:24 PM PDT by max americana
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To: max americana
hmmmm...so if I call him a fudge-packer which to libs is a “hate crime”, then that gives this “gay man” a reason to shoot me??

He might have a better case that way . Shouldn't hurt a real man that much , he probably has a .380 or something being a poofter and all .

6 posted on 06/27/2008 9:32:24 PM PDT by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know)
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To: kbennkc

**He might have a better case that way .**

I forgot that it’s San Fran. My bad.


7 posted on 06/27/2008 9:37:45 PM PDT by max americana
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To: NormsRevenge
San Francisco's ban on handguns in public housing

Does the fact the city is paying the freight give them a right to make the rules?

8 posted on 06/27/2008 9:38:40 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: NormsRevenge

From what I can ascertain onthe Internet, all these NRA lawsuits are going to be a terrific strain on their recourses … send them all the loose change you can. ;-)


9 posted on 06/27/2008 9:39:01 PM PDT by doc1019 (I was taught to respect my elders, but it's getting harder to find one.)
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To: Libertarianize the GOP

No. The second ammendment is the rule.


10 posted on 06/27/2008 9:41:32 PM PDT by budwiesest (Brake the law before it breaks you.)
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To: NormsRevenge

The movement is growing.


11 posted on 06/27/2008 9:43:02 PM PDT by wastedyears (Obama is a Texas Post Turtle.)
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To: max americana
> so if I call him a fudge-packer which to libs is a “hate crime”, then that gives this “gay man” a reason to shoot me?

I suggest you get familiar with the "Pink Pistols".

There are no less than 20 FReep threads on PP over the past 5 years, and you'll note that they are generally supportive threads -- supporting guns used in self-defense wins over bashing homosexuality. Search titles on "pink pistols" and select archive rather than quick search.

Search for FR threads on Pink Pistols

If you use the above link be sure "archive" is selected, not "quick".

And, as far as I know, calling a queer a "fudge-packer" does not constitute a hate crime. However, if you beat the sh!t out of him on the street -AND- while you're doing that, you're calling him a "fudge-packer", then the beating becomes a hate crime.

I disagree mightily with the whole hate-crime crap. But if you're going to talk about it, at least get the definitions more accurate. As far as I know, using the epithet is not, in itself, a crime, though it might get you sued.

12 posted on 06/27/2008 9:43:13 PM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: Libertarianize the GOP

Does the fact the city is paying the freight give them a right to make the rules?

No, the fact that the city is paying the freight does not give the city the right to violate the individually-held right to keep and bear arms. Were you serious?


13 posted on 06/27/2008 9:43:52 PM PDT by Jubal Harshaw
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To: doc1019

Yup,, I had to snip a piece that mentions Chicago and its gun ban is also going to be targeted (no pun intended) by the NRA.


14 posted on 06/27/2008 9:45:19 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed ... ICE toll-free tip hotline 1-866-DHS-2-ICE ... 9/11 .. Never FoRget!!!)
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To: Jubal Harshaw

Just look at all the government rules private schools must accept if they take government money.


15 posted on 06/27/2008 9:48:54 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: NormsRevenge

I wonder if the NRA has any plans regarding bans in housing like mine, that is owned by the university, but off campus.


16 posted on 06/27/2008 9:52:33 PM PDT by kc8ukw
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To: NormsRevenge
San Francisco's government doesn't believe the Second Amendment applies to the city's residents. Its time to disabuse them of the fallacy.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

17 posted on 06/27/2008 9:57:49 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Bringbackthedraft
My thoughts exactly.

IIRC the 9th circus declared a few years ago that there was no right individual right in the 2nd.

18 posted on 06/27/2008 9:58:47 PM PDT by TeleStraightShooter (What value does Black Liberation Theology hold in a post racial Republic?)
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To: kc8ukw

might be worth checking their site.. or a local chapter.


19 posted on 06/27/2008 9:59:17 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi ... Godspeed ... ICE toll-free tip hotline 1-866-DHS-2-ICE ... 9/11 .. Never FoRget!!!)
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To: kbennkc

What a joke. Is there even ONE NRA member in San Francisco “Public Housing” ??? I doubt it. These are the people, who when the bother to vote, for for the fools enacting the bans. SF public housing is synonymous with gang banging, drug dealing, hookers and stupidity. I can’t believe my dues are going for this.


20 posted on 06/27/2008 10:00:02 PM PDT by Jack Black
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To: doc1019

Good to hear. An aggressive follow up to the main event is critically important.


21 posted on 06/27/2008 10:02:05 PM PDT by stravinskyrules (Why is it that whenever I hear a piece of music I don't like, it's always by Villa-Lobos?)
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To: Libertarianize the GOP

So I’ll assume you are serious.

Regarding private schools and government money: government cannot legitimately violate the BOR (now including the 2nd amendment). This applies even to schools which receive government money. Don’t Catholic Universities get government grants, and without giving up their religion? Aren’t government searches on private school grounds still restricted by the 4th amendment? (to the extent that the 4th amendment still exists for the rest of us, anyway). Can’t presses operated by religious schools still print whatever they want?

IAMAL, but, while there may be strings attached to government funds, those strings generally don’t involve violation of fundamental civil rights (now including the 2nd amendment).


22 posted on 06/27/2008 10:02:23 PM PDT by Jubal Harshaw
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To: Jubal Harshaw

The free exercise of religion is guaranteed yet no school taking government money could get away with forbidding homosexual behavior by students attending a church run University, nor could they compel student participation in school led prayers. When a church accepts tax exempt status they are no longer allowed to petition the government if part of the appeal to the congregation is to support a particular candidate who is sympathetic.


23 posted on 06/27/2008 10:16:05 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: Jack Black
I can’t believe my dues are going for this.

I think SF is one of the places to take the fight to the enemy . I think the plaintiff and the public housing are not coincidence . I haven't been a life member and purchased all those gift memberships for my grandchildren because I was fearful of losing my rights here in Idaho .

24 posted on 06/27/2008 10:29:02 PM PDT by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know)
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To: NormsRevenge

The really next frontier is to get California’s absolutely insane “assault weapon” ban killed. It is totally useless and is only meant to harass the law-abiding citizen — criminals do not obey laws anyway. This, like the other stupid gun restrictions, which expired and were proven to show that NOTHING WAS ACCOMPLISHED BY THEM -— just served to show that these “laws” serve only the paranoid radical leftists.

Now California is trying to restrict handgun ammo sales. Just more harassment of lawful citizens and GUN STORE OWNERS. Same old liberal socialist crap.

Go NRA!!!!


25 posted on 06/27/2008 10:30:15 PM PDT by EagleUSA
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To: Libertarianize the GOP

Good points, and it’s probably becoming more and more evident that IANAL with every post I write.

I think there’s a reasonable case to be made that your statements are actually examples of how government, and agencies that receive government funds, cannot legitimately interfere with individually held rights. I think that there’s a reasonable case to be made that it’s an individual right to participate in homosexual behavior, and so government, or government-funded organizations, cannot abridge that right. I am even more certain that there’s a very strong case that there’s an individual right to participate, or not participate, in prayers, and so government and government-funded organizations cannot abridge that right.

As for a church accepting tax-exempt status, and then no longer being allowed to petition the government as you described ... I have a real problem with any restriction on being allowed to petition the government, but I’m not so sure that this issue represents an infringement of individual rights, as opposed to the powers of groups.

So, how does this apply to banning guns in public housing? Keeping and bearing arms is an individual right. Therefore, consistent with the examples cited above, I don’t think government can abridge that right just because government “pays the freight.”

Well, that’s my analysis. Make of it what you will.


26 posted on 06/27/2008 10:31:03 PM PDT by Jubal Harshaw
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To: NormsRevenge
A group of typical San Fransicko Democrats discusses the NRA lawsuit:


27 posted on 06/27/2008 10:32:36 PM PDT by Lancey Howard
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To: Lancey Howard
Geez you came up with that awful fast . You could have at least blurred out the Marine trousers on the left .
28 posted on 06/27/2008 10:37:36 PM PDT by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know)
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To: Jubal Harshaw
There was a California case, in a I think 2000, where the Courts ruled that county owned fairgrounds could forbid gunshows. I don't think anything in the Heller ruling would reverse that. Not quite the same as an individual right but generally who ever pays the piper calls the tune and government loves to use the carrot to gain control.
29 posted on 06/27/2008 10:42:20 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: Jubal Harshaw

A blatant Fourth amendment violation but I don’t think the courts have yet made this illegal.

Bill Would Require Some to Pass Drug Test to Get Aid
Supporters Say State Must Curb Abuse, but Critics Think People in Crisis Need Help, Not Punishment

By Chris L. Jenkins
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, February 19, 2008; B05

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/18/AR2008021802128_pf.html


30 posted on 06/27/2008 10:53:31 PM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Make all taxes truly voluntary)
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To: Libertarianize the GOP

Another good point, but, as you mentioned, this is likely a 4th amendment violation, and has not yet been subject to judicial review. According to the headline you posted, the bill hasn’t even been passed yet. Therefore, I’m not certain that the drug-testing bill provides much of a precedent against being allowed to KBA in government housing.


31 posted on 06/27/2008 11:06:57 PM PDT by Jubal Harshaw
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To: Jack Black
Every once in awhile, San Francisco introduces a handgun ban and every time the courts stop it because of California's preemption law. It doesn't stop SF because they just change the wording on the ban and the NRA has to go to court again.

Had any ban won, L.A. and other cities in California would have followed. This lawsuit finally stops that nonsense for good.

32 posted on 06/27/2008 11:10:02 PM PDT by Shooter 2.5 (NRA - Vote against the dem party)
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To: max americana

Since they cater to the gays so much in SF, I saw a gklimmer of hope that maybe they would do the right thing-if only for that “protected class”.


33 posted on 06/27/2008 11:17:12 PM PDT by Califreak (What exactly is a "Do Wacka Do" anyway?)
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
Libertarianize the GOP said: "Does the fact the city is paying the freight give them a right to make the rules? "

Would it be alright for the city to dictate how he votes? What church he attends? Which books or newspapers he reads? Liberals are going to have their hands full trying to imagine the limits of the RIGHT to keep and bear arms. Once there is a clear mandate that it is a RIGHT, many other things start to fall into place.

34 posted on 06/27/2008 11:58:26 PM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: Jack Black
Jack Black said: Is there even ONE NRA member in San Francisco “Public Housing” ???

The recent handgun ban that was overturned in San Francisco due to state pre-emption originally passed by 57% to 43%. That's a lot of people who voted NOT to ban handguns.

35 posted on 06/28/2008 12:04:23 AM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: kbennkc
I'm laughing out loud as I read this as Bravo channel has been running Broke Back Mountain back to back all evening.
36 posted on 06/28/2008 12:41:50 AM PDT by fish hawk
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To: William Tell
Would it be alright for the city to dictate how he votes? What church he attends? Which books or newspapers he reads?

Judges would probably say "No" to your questions, but I'm not so sure. If you want to sponge off of the government and live in public housing, perhaps you do give up your basic rights. If you want to live like a free citizen, don't ask me, as a taxpayer, to provide a home for you and pay the rent. The public housing resident is like a kid living in his parents' house. Can parents dictate what church a kid attends or whether he can read "Playboy" in their home? Darned right, they can.

I oppose gun control, and I oppose Gavin Newsom, but I'm not so sure that the NRA deserves to win this one.
37 posted on 06/28/2008 12:58:50 AM PDT by irishjuggler
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To: Libertarianize the GOP
Does the fact the city is paying the freight give them a right to make the rules?

Uuuuh ............... What part of "... shall not be infringed." is so confusing as to be not understood?

38 posted on 06/28/2008 1:11:42 AM PDT by fella ("...He that followeth after vain persons shall have poverty enough." Pv.28:19)
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To: Jack Black
That's a very short sighted attitude. This is a war not a battle. Sometimes you fight where it will help you and sometimes you fight where it will hurt your opponent. Those two aren't always the same place.

At it's core Gun Control is still a racist policy. It's always been about race. No one on the left cares if a rich, white suburban guy wants to go buy a shotgun, they never did. The people who they want to prevent getting guns are "Black Men". That's why all the gun control comes from areas where white people rule over a large minority population.

And treating it that way and getting liberals to finally admit it (even indirectly as Mayor Newsome just did) will be the thing that restores all of our rights.

39 posted on 06/28/2008 1:35:14 AM PDT by tcostell (MOLON LABE - http://freenj.blogspot.com - RadioFree NJ)
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To: NormsRevenge

As this thread moves along, I don’t think its fair to make fun a gay guy (poof, small gun, etc.) who wants a pistol for personal attention. Its his right, too.


40 posted on 06/28/2008 2:19:26 AM PDT by Lockbar (March toward the sound of the guns.)
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To: doc1019
"NRA lawsuits are going to be a terrific strain on their recourses"

They will have little recourse but to spend their resources.

41 posted on 06/28/2008 2:23:21 AM PDT by Enterprise (Let all Democrats have a half vote. They deserve it!)
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To: NormsRevenge
Using a gay plaintiff is a stroke of genius! Hats off to the NRA on this one!!! Great job Wayne, great job!!!!!!
42 posted on 06/28/2008 4:34:37 AM PDT by jmaroneps37 (Conservatism is truth. Liberalism is lies.)
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To: dayglored

I wonder whether shouting “I love you” while beating the carp out of somebody would make it less of a crime....

Perhaps in SF it would be considered public S&M and condoned if not celebrated along with the rest of the diversity....


43 posted on 06/28/2008 4:50:54 AM PDT by ExGeeEye (I've been waiting since 11/04/79 for us (US) to do something about Iran.)
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To: ExGeeEye
> I wonder whether shouting “I love you” while beating the carp out of somebody would make it less of a crime.... Perhaps in SF it would be considered public S&M and condoned if not celebrated along with the rest of the diversity....

Interesting point.

And for all we know, there are gay folks who arrange (for love or money) to be beat up while their partner screams "Fudge-packer!" at them. But doing it themselves, in private, is their own business.

S&M is different from real assault. Last I knew, actual muggers don't respect "safe words".

44 posted on 06/28/2008 7:22:42 AM PDT by dayglored (Listen, strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government!)
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To: TeleStraightShooter
"IIRC the 9th circus declared a few years ago that there was no right individual right in the 2nd."

Your recollection is correct. However, you have to take what that group of socialists say with a grain of salt. Usually within a few months the Supreme Court overturns their fantasies and the left coast settles down until they sit in judgment over the lessors again.

Remember, it is your right to preserve your life by any means. You decide what to use not them.

Semper Fi
An Old Man

45 posted on 06/28/2008 8:48:28 AM PDT by An Old Man ("The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress." Douglas)
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To: Lockbar
As this thread moves along, I don’t think its fair to make fun a gay guy (poof, small gun, etc.) who wants a pistol for personal attention. Its his right, too.

Yeah. That this thread quickly morphed into "Ooh! Let's make fun of homos!" is a bit unseemly.

46 posted on 06/28/2008 9:18:54 AM PDT by Drew68
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To: irishjuggler
irishjuggler said: "... but I'm not so sure that the NRA deserves to win this one. "

I am. My tax dollars are not to be made available for any infringement whatever.

I had thought that this issue had already been laid to rest, but evidently the case that came up years ago, and was decided in favor of the renters, must have been public housing controlled by the feds. The feds CANNOT disarm people living in public housing. This was even re-addressed when refugess from Katrina were disarmed as a condition of living in emergency housing. The courts said, "No way", I think.

This case is public housing controlled by a state or a city and that makes it a suitable case for "incorporation" under the Fourteenth Amendment, causing the Second Amendment to apply to the states.

This is really good case because it puts the liberals into the position of having to argue that states and cities have the power to disarm poverty-stricken gays.

47 posted on 06/28/2008 9:30:39 AM PDT by William Tell (RKBA for California (rkba.members.sonic.net) - Volunteer by contacting Dave at rkba@sonic.net)
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To: William Tell

See, I guess the problem is that I strongly oppose the idea of public housing. In a free society, I shouldn’t be forced to pay to provide homes for the numerous able-bodied folks who reside in public housing. No one pays to house me, and I don’t ask anyone else to do so. Thus, I say, if someone wishes to be the ward of the taxpayers, that person forfeits the rights of a free citizen. In my mind, it wouldn’t be inappropriate for the public to impose essentially any punitive restrictions (curfews, drug tests, etc.) on public housing residents that the majority deems appropriate.


48 posted on 06/28/2008 10:16:04 AM PDT by irishjuggler
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To: Drew68
As this thread moves along, I don’t think its fair to make fun a gay guy (poof, small gun, etc.) who wants a pistol for personal attention. Its his right, too. Yeah. That this thread quickly morphed into "Ooh! Let's make fun of homos!" is a bit unseemly.

I have been more than supportive of the 2nd Amendment rights of sodomites and abortionists to be armed and shoot back . I have spent time , money and organized to that end . However if my 1st Amendment right to make stupid , stereotypical cliched jokes must be suspended in the interest of "seemlyness" then I guess you got here with the PC police just in time .

49 posted on 06/28/2008 10:59:48 AM PDT by kbennkc (For those who have fought for it , freedom has a flavor the protected will never know)
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To: NormsRevenge

i bet you dollars to donuts the gun crime rate in these city projects are much higher than the rest of the city. these people do not understand that criminals do not care about gun laws!


50 posted on 06/28/2008 11:02:35 AM PDT by thefactor (the innocent shall not suffer nor the guilty go free...)
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