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Unstamped certificate suggests Obama may not be "natural born" US citizen
Israel Insider ^ | June 24, 2008 | Reuven Koret

Posted on 06/28/2008 12:20:21 PM PDT by FocusNexus

The "birth certificate" claimed by the Barack Obama campaign is not certified as authentic and appears to be a photoshopped fake.

Embossed seal of the State of Hawaii absent from the purported "birth certificate" of Barack Obama

Janice Okubo, Director of Communications of the State of Hawaii Department of Health, told Israel Insider: "At this time there are no circumstances in which the State of Hawaii Department of Health would issue a birth certification or certification of live birth only electronically." And, she added, "In the State of Hawaii all certified copies of certificates of live birth have the embossed seal and registrar signature on the back of the document."

So if he were registered as being born in Hawaii, Barack Obama -- because only he or another member of his immediate family could by law request a "Certification of Live Birth" -- must have a certified paper copy, with embossed stamp and seal, or he could request one. But what his campaign has put forward as genuine, according to the senior spokesman in the relevant department of the State of Hawaii, is not in fact a certified copy. It is not valid.

The Obama campaign, however, continues to flaunt the unstamped, unsealed, uncertified document -- notably in very low resolution -- on its "Fight the Smears" website, with campaign officials vowing that it's authentic, sending the image around as "proof" to reporters, and inviting supporters to refer to it as they battle against supposed distortions and calumnies against their candidate. However, the campaign refuses to produce an authentic original birth certificate from the year of Obama's birth, or even a paper version with seal and signature of the "Certification of Live Birth." Nor has it even published an electronic copy with the requisite embossed seal and signature.

(Excerpt) Read more at web.israelinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Politics/Elections; US: Hawaii
KEYWORDS: birthcertificate; blankonline; certifigate; obama; obamatruthfile; oldstory; posteddozensoftimes; trysearch; whatisobamahiding; whereisoriginal
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Embossed seal of the State of Hawaii absent from the purported "birth certificate" of Barack Obama

1 posted on 06/28/2008 12:20:21 PM PDT by FocusNexus
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To: FocusNexus

No embossed seal.

2 posted on 06/28/2008 12:21:26 PM PDT by FocusNexus ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: FocusNexus
If Obama wasn't born in Hawaii, then where was he born?

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

3 posted on 06/28/2008 12:21:49 PM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: FocusNexus

His mother’s name is “Stanley”?


4 posted on 06/28/2008 12:24:10 PM PDT by willgolfforfood
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To: FocusNexus

Fake but accurate?


5 posted on 06/28/2008 12:25:53 PM PDT by expatguy ("An American Expat in Southeast Asia" - New & Improved - Now with Search)
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To: FocusNexus

So, why is Obama being allowed to get away with this?


6 posted on 06/28/2008 12:26:18 PM PDT by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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To: goldstategop

time line


7 posted on 06/28/2008 12:26:39 PM PDT by expatguy ("An American Expat in Southeast Asia" - New & Improved - Now with Search)
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To: willgolfforfood
Actually, there are two errors there. They state "maiden Name" but then give a full name. Her actual "maiden name" would only be her surname, before marriage. Thus adding her given name is an error.

Fake but accurate?

8 posted on 06/28/2008 12:28:40 PM PDT by Michael.SF. ("They're not Americans. They're liberals! "-- Ann Coulter, May 15, 2008)
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To: goldstategop
His Mother spent a lot of time abroad — he could have been born outside of the US.

The problem is that given the controversy and the implication, why doesn't Obama show his actual birth certificate, putting all questions to rest, or authorize some journalists to request and obtain a certified copy from Hawaii.

http://hawaii.gov/health/vital-records/vital-records/vital_records.html

“If you are applying for a certificate on behalf of someone else, you must provide an original letter signed by that person authorizing the release of their certificate to you.”

Shades of John Kerry refusing to sign his 180 form.

9 posted on 06/28/2008 12:29:14 PM PDT by FocusNexus ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: FocusNexus

He better show the real certificate, if there is one, and do it soon. It should be demanded by our government by next week.


10 posted on 06/28/2008 12:30:42 PM PDT by RC2
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To: willgolfforfood

According to this, his parents were not married, otherwise the Mother’s last name would also have been listed as Obama.


11 posted on 06/28/2008 12:31:45 PM PDT by FocusNexus ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: FocusNexus

Interesting,... if you look at the bottom of the form there is a faint date stamp of Jun 6 2007; albeit in reverse that the purple ink has bled through from the back side. One would think that any date of original or copy would be on the face and if a replacement copy would be so stated on the face.

Just some interesting observations.


12 posted on 06/28/2008 12:32:16 PM PDT by SandRat (Duty, Honor, Country! What else needs said?)
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To: FocusNexus

Aren’t birth and death certificates public records in Hawaii?


13 posted on 06/28/2008 12:32:43 PM PDT by quadrant
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To: expatguy

Guys, stop. He’s a US citizen. This just makes conservatives look foolish.

It’s a copy of his birth certificate, not the original. Just as if you called today to get a copy of yours it would be sent to you all shiny and new. As for the seal, or lack of it, they generally don’t come through with the newer ones as a counter to forgery.

Move on and attack the guy’s Socialist ideas, not whether he is a legitimate American citizen.


14 posted on 06/28/2008 12:33:24 PM PDT by SideoutFred (Save us from the Looney Left)
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To: FocusNexus

This is why Obama’s people are attacking FR. There’s something about his birth certificate he doesn’t want anyone knowing about.


15 posted on 06/28/2008 12:35:02 PM PDT by Fox_Mulder77
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To: FocusNexus
Watch out Reuven, or the "razor-sharp political theorist" will be on your tail.
16 posted on 06/28/2008 12:37:31 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: SideoutFred
He’s a US citizen.

Nobody is questioning his citizenship.

17 posted on 06/28/2008 12:39:19 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Given such dismal choices, I guess I'll vote for the old guy.)
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To: FocusNexus

I saved this image, and zoomed in on where the fields are filled in, and it is obvious that this document was photoshopped. The fields with text are all pasted in as an overlay, which is obvious from the surrounding pixel distortion.

HOWEVER, there is ONE area in this image that is not photoshopped, and which shows the negative image of the text “JUN 6 2007”. It is at the right of the text showing “Date Filled by Registrar.”

It is hard to read, but if you save the pic, zoom in and trace the pixels, it is the reverse of JUN 6 2007

So, what is going on here, Obama Camp? What’s the TRUTH?


18 posted on 06/28/2008 12:40:01 PM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007 (Look at all the candidates. Choose who you think is best. Choose wisely in 2008.)
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To: SideoutFred
It’s a copy of his birth certificate, not the original. Just as if you called today to get a copy of yours it would be sent to you all shiny and new

Not true - it would have the embossed seal. This one does not. There is something to this story but I do not expect the MSM to pursue it.
19 posted on 06/28/2008 12:40:08 PM PDT by The Lumster (USA - where the innocent have nothing to fear!)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Then what are you questioning


20 posted on 06/28/2008 12:40:14 PM PDT by SideoutFred (Save us from the Looney Left)
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To: FocusNexus

We already know that his parents were not legally married because his father was already married to a woman in Africa. She may have been married in some sort of civil ceremony, though. Obama says that he does not know whether they were ever married.

Wouldn’t he have been considered a citizen even if he was born in another country, if his mother was a citizen. I think that all she would have to do is apply for the citizenship. It would not really be much different than John McCain’s situation, being born in the canal zone.


21 posted on 06/28/2008 12:40:33 PM PDT by Eva (CHANGE- the post modern euphemism for Marxist revolution.)
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To: FocusNexus

Perhaps it’s time to check birth records in Nairobi, Kenya if they keep any.


22 posted on 06/28/2008 12:40:52 PM PDT by 353FMG (What marxism and fascism could not destroy, liberalism did.)
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To: RC2

> He better show the real certificate, if there is one,
> and do it soon.

And his biggest problem may not be ordinary concerned
Americans, but Hillary.

If Messiah II has a little Constitutional problem,
Her Heinous already knows all about it (from his FBI
file, etc.), and may be saving it for Denver.

The undoing of Hussein won’t be traceable to Ms. Marx
of course, but she will selflessly offer herself as
the solution to any “surprise” DNC nomination crisis.

Perhaps this year’s Eagleton will be the POTUS nom
instead of the VP, but the Dems will toss him under
the bus just as fast.


23 posted on 06/28/2008 12:40:53 PM PDT by Boundless (Legacy Media is hazardous to your mental health)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy

If Obama is NOT a citizen, he isn’t allowed to be President

what we need freepers to investigate is whether he registered for the draft.

Heis exactly the right age to register for Carters selective service requirements


24 posted on 06/28/2008 12:40:59 PM PDT by RaceBannon (Innocent until proven guilty; The Pendleton 8: We are not going down without a fight)
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To: FocusNexus

Why is the certificate # blacked out?

African is not a race! In 1961, wouldn't Negro or Negroid have been used to describe his Father's race instead of African?

Where is the indentation of the official seal and the folded marks, the rest of us have on our valid birth certificate copies?

Last but not least: What are the reverse purple lettering past the last entry line on the lower middle right? What do they mean, and why are they there?

Did Dan Blather's liar, Mary Mapes create this bs?

Is this phoney birth certificate just another example of the Real but Fake Hussein ObamaMessiaHamas, the Islamofacist Manchurian Candidate for Changing America?

Compare this doctored and phoney BC copy with a real BC copy shown below:

We probably have as much chance of seeing a real copy of his birth certificate as seeing John Kerry’s full military record. Kerry refused to release his military records, and Hussein ObamaMessiaHamas, the Islamofacist Manchurian Candidate will probably not show his BC. We will be labeled as racists for daring to question his birth.

25 posted on 06/28/2008 12:41:57 PM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Kerry was a Uber Liberal, Hussein ObamaMessiaHamas makes Kerry look like Jesse Helms!)
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To: FocusNexus

Has anyone written to the campaign and asked for an original. If not, shouldn’t they.

If there’s no problem with the thing, they could put any speculation to rest pretty fast.


26 posted on 06/28/2008 12:42:36 PM PDT by Bahbah (Typical white person)
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To: SideoutFred
Then what are you questioning

Me? I'm not questioning anything. I'm reading an article that questions Bo's qualifications for President. After all, Rules is Rules.

27 posted on 06/28/2008 12:43:23 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Given such dismal choices, I guess I'll vote for the old guy.)
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To: SideoutFred

Exactly. I’m a native born US citizen and I don’t have my original birth certificate—only the copy I ordered from the city. Doesn’t mean a thing—I’m sure most Americans are in the same boat. Of course, if Hawaii doesn’t have a record of it, that’s another story....


28 posted on 06/28/2008 12:43:28 PM PDT by rbg81 (DRAIN THE SWAMP!!)
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To: FocusNexus
According to this, his parents were not married, otherwise the Mother’s last name would also have been listed as Obama

Not true - mothers are listed by maiden name even when they are legally married. The certificates for both my children are listed like this even though their mother and I were (and are) married at the time of birth
29 posted on 06/28/2008 12:43:30 PM PDT by The Lumster (USA - where the innocent have nothing to fear!)
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To: FocusNexus
My childrens' birth certificates have a LOT more information on them than is shown on Obama's certificate. Could there be info on his real certificate that he wants to hide perhaps?

Was his name perhaps "Barry" at birth?

Could he have been listed as race "white" due to his mother's race?

Is his father's name perhaps not on the certificate since his parents were not legally married?

Was there perhaps a designation of religion on the certificate, and perhaps his is listed as "Muslim"?

Or how about this one (I am quoting from another source): Barack Obama is not legally a U.S. natural-born citizen according to the law on the books at the time of his birth, which falls between “December 24, 1952 to November 13, 1986″. Presidential office requires a natural-born citizen if the child was not born to two U.S. citizen parents, which of course is what exempts John McCain though he was born in the Panama Canal. US Law very clearly stipulates: “…If only one parent was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, that parent must have resided in the United States for at least ten years, at least five of which had to be after the age of 16.” Barack Obama’s father was not a U.S. citizen and Obama’s mother was only 18 when Obama was born, which means though she had been a U.S. citizen for 10 years, the mother fails the test for being so for at least 5 years **prior to** Barack Obama’s birth, but *after* age 16. It doesn’t matter *after* . In essence, she was not old enough to qualify her son for automatic U.S. citizenship.

30 posted on 06/28/2008 12:45:41 PM PDT by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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To: SideoutFred

“It’s a copy of his birth certificate, “

So why doesn’t it say it’s a certified copy and those are usually signed by the clerk or someone, certifying it to be an exact copy of the original.

It says it’s a certificate, not a copy.


31 posted on 06/28/2008 12:45:45 PM PDT by FocusNexus ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: The Lumster

Lumster, it is absolutely true. We lost my daughter’s birth certificate and I had to request a new one. It arrived, fresh off the printer from the state. Yes it was embossed but I scanned it so I had a digital record of it on my computer and the embossing DOES NOT SHOW UP.

To clarify, I realize people are not questioning his US Citizenry but whether or not he was a natural born US citizen. Guys, let it go. McCain was born in Panama (as was my sister, by the way)....this is the stuff that makes conservatives look like we wear tin foil hats.

If it’s legit, then fine. But this one is nonsense. I have a lot easier time buying into the guy’s Islamic upbringing or tearing into his Socialist ideas then this nonsense.


32 posted on 06/28/2008 12:45:48 PM PDT by SideoutFred (Save us from the Looney Left)
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To: Bahbah

If you go to Obama’s site http://my.barackobama.com/page/invite/birthcert

you’ll find they’re using the same one...

Admittedly there’s some tinfoil scattering throughout some of the speculation- but it’s still rather odd, and has yet to be thoroughly debunked (regardless of WHAT his official site says).


33 posted on 06/28/2008 12:46:26 PM PDT by SE Mom (Proud mom of an Iraq war combat vet)
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To: FocusNexus

no more plz


34 posted on 06/28/2008 12:47:43 PM PDT by nuconvert (Obama - Preferred by 4 out of 5 Dictators & Terrorists)
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To: SideoutFred
Guys, stop. He’s a US citizen. This just makes conservatives look foolish.

The fact that this keeps coming up means the necessary evidence to move on hasn't been presented. It's investigating things like this that make this board worthwhile. Keep searching until this issue is closed -- one way or the other.

35 posted on 06/28/2008 12:49:15 PM PDT by The Truth Will Make You Free
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To: FocusNexus

Jim Geraghty (sp?) at Campaignspot has covered this extensively. He pointed out the unlikelihood of everyone in Obama’s life, including the candidate, consistently lying about his place of birth from the time he came to public notice. Odds are remote. Everyone agrees he was born in Hawaii. There are other aspects of a birth certificate that could be altered, however. I read somewhere—I can’t remember where—that his original name may have been Barack Muhammad Obama. Or that Barry may have been his given name, and he only took Barack later, when he wanted to more fully identify with either his black or Muslim origins. I don’t know. I’m just strongly inclined to believe he was born in Hawaii, but that this birth certificate may not tell the whole story.


36 posted on 06/28/2008 12:50:50 PM PDT by Fantasywriter
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To: SideoutFred

Fred - people ARE questioning his citizenship. If he was born outside the US he is not eligible for the office. McCain is different because he was born on a US military base which is considered US soil.

All candidates for the presidency should be required to prove their eligibility. This is not a technicality but a basic constitutional question.


37 posted on 06/28/2008 12:51:30 PM PDT by The Lumster (USA - where the innocent have nothing to fear!)
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To: Jeff Chandler

Don’t you know HIllary and Bill are hoping and praying that he is not eligible...that is why she still has her delegates...hoping for a miracle..


38 posted on 06/28/2008 12:51:56 PM PDT by JoanneSD (illegals represented without taxation.. Americans taxed without representation)
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To: SE Mom

I dont’ understand why the campaign doesn’t simply provide a credible outfit with an original. Just put one right in someone’s hand with a certificate number on it and maybe an affidavit from the appropriate authority in Hawaii.

Get the thing over with.

If it’s supposed to be some kind of effective distraction, it’s not. Everyone is all over the place looking into all sorts of things and no one is stuck on this to the exclusion of any other information.

So I ask myself, why just let this thing hang out there?


39 posted on 06/28/2008 12:53:08 PM PDT by Bahbah (Typical white person)
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To: SideoutFred
..."As for the seal, or lack of it, they generally don’t come through with the newer ones as a counter to forgery." I was under the impression that all "official" birth certificate copies MUST have the seal to be legal copies. When I got my passport a few years ago, they clearly made a point that I must present a birth certificate copy with the embossed seal to them and that a photo stat of the seal or one without a seal would NOT be acceptable.
40 posted on 06/28/2008 12:53:14 PM PDT by Apple Pan Dowdy (... as American as Apple Pie)
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To: SideoutFred; Beckwith
This is directed at me and so allow me to respond.

Im been investigating this since 2006 at my own expense - I never questioned the school documents when I first saw them with my own eyes - even though he was listed as an Indonesian citizen - maybe I overlooked it - I asked for a certified copy and at the time was politely refused.

No one has been able to dispute what I have posted on Obama so far and no one ever will - I will ensure that when I post them they will be certified by the relevant authorities. Case closed.

From what I understand, several copies have been made and that the "the US government" has copies already which according to my sources they paid for. Yes paid for!!

The two individuals involved claimed to be working for the US government to request the documents and one of the individuals is from what I have been told to be a congressman, the other from the State Department - the full details will be available soon along with the documentation.

41 posted on 06/28/2008 12:53:37 PM PDT by expatguy ("An American Expat in Southeast Asia" - New & Improved - Now with Search)
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To: JoanneSD
Don’t you know HIllary and Bill are hoping and praying that he is not eligible

You bet they are.

42 posted on 06/28/2008 12:54:45 PM PDT by Jeff Chandler (Given such dismal choices, I guess I'll vote for the old guy.)
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To: The Truth Will Make You Free
Look at this analysis: PIXEL distortion and JUN 6 2007 (negative , or reversed...)
43 posted on 06/28/2008 12:55:15 PM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007 (Look at all the candidates. Choose who you think is best. Choose wisely in 2008.)
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To: Eva

“Wouldn’t he have been considered a citizen even if he was born in another country, if his mother was a citizen.”

Yes, it appears so — but it gets a little iffy, since Obama’s Mother was 18 when he was born, so technically she didn’t meet the requirement of residing in the US for 5 years after age 14 — but, as I said, this could be just a technicality.

http://www.pengweber.com/citizenship/citizenbybirth.html

http://www.pengweber.com/citizenship/citizenbybirth.html#Chart%20to%20Determine%20Citizenship%20Rules

“If both parents are U.S. citizens, at least one resided in the U.S. before the child’s birth.

If one parent is a U.S. citizen, the U.S. citizen parent must have resided in the U.S. for 10 years, at least 5 of which were after age 14.”

But his Father was a citizen of Kenya at the time, would that make Obama also a citizen of Kenya with dual citizenship? I read somewhere that he has dual citizenship. Did he ever renounce his Kenyan citizenship?


44 posted on 06/28/2008 12:56:20 PM PDT by FocusNexus ("Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing." -- Vince Lombardi)
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To: Apple Pan Dowdy
Because CNN, NYT, MSNBC and all the other lunatics in the media will not allow Americans to know about it.

Obama's fraudulent documents will never be on the TV or in the newspapers because the MSM wants him in the White House.

But why? I suspect part of the reason is they know he will attempt to shut down Talk Radio and online forums like Free Republic and Little Green Footballs.

That way, the media's distortions can continue unabated (The Reuters-Beirut false photo scandal immediately comes to mind).

In short, Obama will eliminate/bankrupt/imprison the folks who expose the MSM b@stards for what they truly are: Liars, manipulators, cheaters and deceivers.

45 posted on 06/28/2008 12:56:35 PM PDT by Prole (Pray for the families of Chris and Channon.)
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To: SideoutFred

Did you not read what the issuing department in Hawaii said? It is NOT what you would get if you got a copy of yours. We cannot know WHY his campaign is distributing a fake, but I think we can at this point reasonably conclude that is is indeed a fake.

As I’ve seen mentioned only briefly in other analyses of the image, take a close look at the sloppy way in which the borders line up in the bottom corners. Now take a look at any government-issued certificate you can find (especially from a long-established state-level agency) and tell me if you see a difference. In addition to the missing emboss and differences in font, etc., this is a fluorescent red flag with a spotlight shining on it.

Certificates like this are purchased blank from a printing company, and almost surely printed on an offset press; then the data is printed by the agency. It is unimaginable to me that any offset print vendor would turn out work like this to a customer as important as a U.S. state. Bottom line, it looks like Photoshop-101-level fakery.

Can we automatically infer that if his campaign is distributing a fake birth certificate, then he is not a natural-born citizen? Of course not. But it is most DEFINITELY a legitimate question that should be answered post-haste, especially in light of Obama’s demonstrated willingness to fudge the truth.

MM


46 posted on 06/28/2008 12:57:01 PM PDT by MississippiMan
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To: SideoutFred
What is so freekin difficult about finding your original birth certificate? Sheesh, he's running for POTUS. I have two birth certificates. The original with a gold embossed seal and a second smaller one with an embossed seal. If I were running for President of the United States of America, I'd make at least one of them available for inspection.

Ah, but demanding a simple birth certificate from a contender in the race to be President of the United States of America is stupid and foolish and undemocratic. We deserve the leaders we get. We set the standards. It is obvious that our standards are low.

47 posted on 06/28/2008 12:58:08 PM PDT by Chgogal (When you vote Democrat, you vote Al Qaeda! Ari Emanuel, Rahm's brother was agent to Moore's F9/11.)
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To: FocusNexus
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President" Just so we apply the right standard. Since he's not 219 years old, he must have been born here to be eligible. I know that actually following the Constitution is passe these days in Washington, but he should be required to prove this beyond any doubt.
48 posted on 06/28/2008 12:58:27 PM PDT by americanophile
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To: SideoutFred
That's exactly the way we lost to Clinton.

Draft dodger? Just move on? Womanizer? Just move on. Shady land deals? Just move on.

Except now you're asking us to “just move on” concerning a Constitutional mandate!

49 posted on 06/28/2008 12:58:36 PM PDT by Cedric
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To: willgolfforfood

...and he’s Barack Jr.?


50 posted on 06/28/2008 12:59:25 PM PDT by americanophile
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