Posted on 06/30/2008 12:35:57 PM PDT by MplsSteve
A woolen flag with cotton stars flew the night Gen. Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson caught a bullet in the arm -- a quiet witness to one of history's great accidents.
You can see it inside a case on the third floor of the N.C. Museum of History, hanging over a Confederate ammunition chest recovered from a Johnston County farm: the flag carried by the regiment that inadvertently shot the man who was arguably the South's No. 2 general.
The museum just bought the flag for a price Curator of Military History Tom Belton would describe only as a bargain.
Any price would be puny for such a find, he said, calling the flag one of the greatest acquisitions in his 30-year career. No matter what you feel for the rebel soldiers who carried it -- pride, disdain, boredom -- the flag can light the imagination.
"It's the flag that was flying over the regiment that mortally wounded Stonewall Jackson," said Tom Walsh, the New Jersey professor who sold it. "It opens up all sorts of what-ifs."
(Excerpt) Read more at newsobserver.com ...
Comments or opinions - anyone?
The 45th North Carolina had a flag until one of my ancestors took it.
No one can look at the marker at Gettysburg that marks the farthest point of the advance of the North Carolinians on July 3, 1863 during Pickett’s Charge, and ever doubt the bravery of the Tarheel men.
“Sharpsburg” on the battle flag refers to “Antietam”, which is what the North calls that battle.
ping
Ping
So give it back.
Why was it that the Confederates named battles after the nearest town, but the Union forces named battles after the nearest river?
I know it's available on YouTube if you search for it....
Dixie Ping
The 1st Minnesota Infantry was at Pickett’s Charge on July 3rd and captured the flag of the 28th Virginia Infantry.
We never returned it and now it’s on occasional display at the Minnesota State History Center.
I’ve seen it before. It’s quite stirring and never fails to turn heads when it’s on display.
I don;t really know why they named the battles differently. I guess both sides don’t meet beforehand and say “let’s call it this!”
It probably has something to do with how each side remembered the place, naming it for a geographic feature or town to disintiguish it from other sites in a series of running battles.
Interestingly enough, both sides referred to Gettysburg as “Gettysburg”.
The “Mannassas Junction” on the NC-18th battle flag refers to Bull Run, another incidence of the battle naming process you mentioned.
Excellent question!
I’m not sure either. Maybe some other Freeper knows the answer to that one.
I recall that. It was probably one of the few decent scenes in the movie.
For some reason, “Gods & Generals” bored me. Not because it was four hours long. Not because of a lack of battle scenes.
It just bored me.
Although the actor who played Stonewall Jackson should have gotten an Oscar nomination for it. He was good.
How about respect?
This from the great grandson of a German immigrant who served in Union regiments from drummer boy a Pea Ridge to rifleman at Petersburg.
ping
I agree that Stonewall Jackson was the South’s second best general. I would argue that the first was Nathan Bedford Forrest.
Had Jackson survived, I have little doubt that Gettysburg would have been a Confederate victory and the South would have won the war.
‘nother Dixie ping!
Excellent Post!
I do believe that Gettysburg would have been a Southern victory - provided that Jackson didn’t die at Chancellorsville.
But whether that would have translated into the South winning the war, that’s a little more of a stretch.
The North would have fought on. Lincoln probably couldn’t have contemplated surrendering to Jefferson Davis. Vicksburg has fallen, eliminating a source of re-supply for the Confederate armies. The naval blockade was starting to kick in about that time.
There is the million dollar question of whether the South could have continued to win victories leading up the Presidential election in 1864. Part of me thinks they couldn’t have.
Lee would have been pushed into confronting the Union Army again somewhere in the North or one of the border states like Maryland. There’s no guarantee that (even if Jackson were still alive) that he would have won another large-scale battle that decisively turned the tide towards a surrender of the North.
But then again, who knows...?!
The Confederate Army was comprised primarily of rural boys, so any town would necessarily be the geographical highlight of the area for them.
Another example of this practice is what the Confederates termed the Battle of Mansfield (La.), which the Federals referred to as the Battle of Sabine Crossroads, the Sabine being a nearby river.
If Jackson had survived, and J.E.B. Stuart would have shown up sooner, Gettysburg would have certainly gone to the Confederates.
Unless of course Martin Sheen had been playing Lee ;-).
I generally agree for the most part that the two *best* generals of the war were Forrest and Sherman...although *best* can be defined in many ways.
I submit that any Top 5 list of Confederate generals should include Richard Taylor, son of Zachary Taylor, who is, in my opinion, the most underrated (or at least overlooked) of the Southern commanders.
He mentored under Stonewall in the Valley Campaign, then took what he learned to the Trans-Mississippi theater. With 8,000 troops he routed a Federal army of 23,000 at the Battle of Mansfield, La.
ping
LOL, we’re gonna disagree again!
Robert Duvall did a good job in “Gods & Generals” but I thought Martin Sheen was top-notch in “Gettysburg”. I would have loved to seen Sheen repeat as Robert E Lee in “Gods & Generals”.
Yes, there are a lot of “what ifs.” I believe Jackson would have taken Little Round Top on the first day of battle. I believe that Meade would have reluctantly been forced to take the offensive and would have been soundly defeated. The magnitude of victory would be key. If the South won a resounding victory, it could have easily taken Washington DC and perhaps captured Lincoln which I believe would have ended the war. Alternatively, the South could have raided several ammunition and supply forts, to replenish dwindling supplies. However, the Confederates would be in unknown and hostile and unfamiliar territory. Unless they could adequately live off the land, supply lines would be problematic. If the South suffered considerable casualties, even in victory, it might have been forced to retreat.
I have my doubts about Sherman’s military acumen.
I cite his actions at Missionary Ridge (specifically the Railroad Tunnel) and Stones River. In the former, he badly directed his troops into battle and in the latter, he downplayed the possibility of a Confederate flank attack and ridiculed those beneath him who warned of it.
If I recall correctly, he was caught off-guard at Shiloh too - but then again, the entire Union army was caught off-guard.
It just bored me.
Not enough focus or drama. "This happened and then that happened" isn't enough to make an entertaining movie.
Although the actor who played Stonewall Jackson should have gotten an Oscar nomination for it. He was good.
Really? Like Oscar Wilde said about the death of Little Nell in that Dickens novel. "It would have taken a heart of stone not to laugh out loud."
Thanks for the ping SB.
Just what I'd expect from somebody who like Martin Sheen as Robert Lee ;-)
Given Sherman's rapid rise through the senior ranks, he made a number of mistakes early on, which he readily acknowledged in his Memoirs, which I can highly recommend. On the other hand, he rapidly assimilated, and employed the lessons of a new type of warfare, and I would suggest that at the the end of the war, there was not another military force on the planet that could have defeated him and the soldiers under his command.
He did a darned good job as Ike Clanton in Tombstone, IMO.
Agree. Similar to the US 3rd Army at the end of WWII.
Patton and Sherman had very similar leadership styles...I suppose in modern language you might call them, "results oriented."
One thing that Sherman had going for him (during the march thru Georgia) was the lack of any viable opposition. Occasional hit and run attacks by cavalry and the Georgia Home Guard amounted to well, not a whole lot for him to worry about. On his march thru the Carolinas, the Confederate army he was facing was decimated and piece-meal and again, not a whole lot for him to worry about.
I looked at Sherman when he was facing the Confederate Army of Tennessee in its prime and they easily handled him, not matter whether it was on offense or defense.
I do agree with you that his march thru Georgia was a new standard in warfare - although there are a number of southern Freepers who’d argue that it was a form of terror inflicted on the civilian population.
I need to read up on Sherman’s March but I do wonder about one thing. Other than the eventual capture of Savannah (a strategic port) was there any military purpose to it? Or was it just a means of taking out their aggressions/getting revenge on the Southern population for their backing of the wrong side?
Let Sherman answer that for himself:
"It will be a physical impossibility to protect the roads, now that Hood, Forrest, Wheeler, and the whole batch of devils are turned loose without home or habitation. I think that Hood's movements indicate a diversion to the end of the Selma & Talledega road, at Blue Mountain, about 60 miles southwest of Rome, where he will threaten Kingston, Bridgeport, and Decatur,Alabama, I propose that we break up the railroad from Chattanooga forward, and that we strike out with our wagons for Midgeville, Millen, and Savannah. Until we can repopulate Georgia, it is useless for us to occupy it, but the utter destruction of its roads, houses, and people, will cripple their military resources. By attempting to hold the roads, we will lose a thousand men each month, and we will gain no result. I can make this march, and make Georgia howl! We have on hand over 8 thousand head of cattle and three million rations of bread, but no corn. We can find plenty of forage in the interior of the state." -- William T. Sherman, October 1864.
““Sharpsburg” on the battle flag refers to “Antietam”, which is what the North calls that battle.”
.....I would strongly recommend a visit to Antietum Battlefield to any WBTS fan...for years that part of Maryland remained little changed....mainstreet of Sharpsburg was as quiet as it was then....all that is changing now as development marches on in Frederick County....ten years ago Antietum and the Wilderness were considered to be the least changed battlefields in the National Park System....the battlefield HQs maintains an Order of Battle roster so you can give the ranger your ancestor’s unit and then he can show you where they were positioned....then you can spend the day walking in your g-grandfather’s footsteps....afterwards, head over to Sharpstown [featured in Gods & Generals]and eat at the Black Forest Inn....you’ll be glad you did.
Stonewalls...descendant of a Company I/23rd S.C.Inf. veteran
PS...many of the Confederate dead are buried in Frederick MD at Mt. Olivet Cemetary....nobody ever goes there.
There was a very large psychological component to it, and Sherman became quite emphatic about getting to Savannah on time to present it to Mr. Lincoln as a Christmas Gift. The larger strategy was to get to the coast and bring direct pressure northward to put the squeeze on Lee, using the coast cities to enhance logistics. Additionally, Georgia had in some ways become the "bread basket" of the Confederacy by that point, and this was to be part of the coup de grace. There was also a psychological element to this, with an express desire to punish S. Carolina, where secession had begun.
Contrary to some who would decry Sherman's atrocities against civilians, I would recommend reading his correspondence back and forth with Hood before moving on Atlanta. In a nut shell, Hood (preemptively) accuses him of being about to attack civilians in their homes, and churches. Sherman points out to him that he has put soldiers and cannons in the homes and churches...it's really kind of a verbal b!tch slap in the wording used and mildly humorous. Likewise, Sherman and his staff are in the Raleigh area when they receive word of Lincoln's assassination. Great pains are taken in how the word is released to the troops because of Sherman's fear that his soldiers would take vengeance on the local populace.
“head over to Sharpstown”....sorry, that should be SHEPARDSTOWN
...this flag is an item of great value....the last one of these I saw come up at auction went for cool $750,000.
Of course Albert Sydney Johnston was a superb general, although often times overlooked, some called him the “Lee of the west”. The western theater might have gone differently had he not died amidst the chaos of Shiloh.
When these men were captured by a patrol as a small group of troops left behind to fight a long range rearguard action. This column then was ordered to split up and try to make it back across the flooded Potomac River after Gettysburg.
The rifle's former owner said that his rifle was a terrible weapon that was covered in blood from both north and south; in his written comments found with the rifle in the basement of our old county courthouse this stand of arms were destined for the new Presidential Lincoln Library in Springfield Illinois. The confederate soldier called his rifle a "cursed weapon" that the almost uncanny ability as an effective long range weapon for killing northern officers, artillerists and other union snipers.
This rifle was sold to Confederate weapons buyers in a special batch of trial weapons numbered from 1 to 100 in total. Unfortunately the buyers didn't appreciate what these special weapons could do for the army. They bought as many Enfields as their economy and this British company could produce.
Eventually over 18,000 Enfield Model 1861 rifles would be made in Sheffield England for use by southern troops, but as the war continued and the Anaconda strategy of naval brokade grew, fewer and fewer of these weapons reached the southern soldiers battlefield. But these are not the same weapon as those that made up that special initial lot.
Those especially prized one of a kind weapons that made up that first initial shipment of highly accurate trial Enfield rifles, were quickly snatched up for local Carolina soldiers that were already deadly hunters.
Initially these expert shootists were spread out and their special skills wasted as regular soldiers standing upright and trading volleys like the rest of the world's armies had fought each other for hundreds of years. In each Regimental formation; where this group of prized men and their "great long yellow guns" were placed among the other ineffective foot soldiers.
That was until General Jackson himself saw a demonstration of these guns long range shooting capabilities at a festive Turkey Shoot set up to entertain the troops. He witnessed these special shootists with almost mythical skills for himself. After confering with General Lee, Jackson formed small squads of "special pickets" that were typically employed just before or during the last part of most battles, to either enrage the enemy and get them to commit and attack on ground of poor tactical status, or to destroy the enemies will to continue the fight by targeting especially valuable or effective enemy leaders. They also were used to form special rearguard actions where their special skills could buy the southern armies precious time to retreat and take along their supplies and equipment.
The captured confederate soldier diary also claims that his English made rifle's barrel was cut special with almost twice the number of grooves typically appearing inside of the long barrel. Those extra barrel cuts can be plainly seen by looking carefully down the barrel. This private's notes claim dozens of long distance kill shots, that include many noted Generals, artillery commanders, quartermasters, locomotive engineers and even politicians who came to watch the specical of modern warfare. He claims that he had made more than seventy five six hundred yard kills with this special rifle, including the death of Gen Winfield Scott Hancock at the outset of The fighting in Gettysburg.
This story along with the long yellow British Enfield all came back home to rest in Illinois along with other war throphies like huge naval rifles that fired 32 pound shaped projectiles, huge fat semi-circular short range seige mortors and mobile cannons pulled by teams of houses called "Napoleons" and much more civil war booty. For the sake of morale on the homefront these captured weapons came along with any groups of new fallen soldiers. Eventually the remains of some three hundred dead were buried from this small county alone.
The north was losing this war with an election year coming up for Lincoln. Something had to be done to stop the Army of Northern Virginia, so quietly a premium and a financial bounty was placed upon eliminating high value targets of opportunity; especially artillery gun crew officers, cavalry and officers on horseback.
When the confederates learned of this new Yankee policy, Jackson already had his group of special pickets. Our confederate sharpshooter claimed that his individual rifle had a blood lust of its very own. He makes a claim that it was his rifle that had fired the shot that had wounded General Jackson in the near darkness and powder shrouded woods where he and several members of the generals staff was riding to establish where the Union army had fled. Two officers of Jackson's party were killed outright in perhaps the most unfortunate friendly fire episode in American history.
Out of the original 100 presentation Enfield rifles, eighteen are known to survive today mostly in public museums and a few are still in private collections.
These rifle are noteworthy and easy to spot due to the extra fancy engraving and the use of extensive yellow brass on the barrel rings and the hardware. We will probably never know who was responsible for the generals wounds, but for one enemy soldier who apparently believes that it was his rifle that this soldier carried for more than two years as a member of Jackson's skirmishers and "special pickets" who thought that his "cursed rifle" fired the round that wounded General Jackson, who would later expire many days later from both pneumonia, wound infection, weakness and malnutrition.
How's that for a real life Civil War story of my very own? If you collect any WW One or earlier Regimental hat pins and or ribbons or metals kindly consider selling your bobbles to me. I'll even tell you where they are from and what they were for, thank you! I take some of them to area schools for special events extolling our rich historical national legacy to youngsters of different ages.
I was hoping someone would bring up A.S. Johnston.
As many people have asked the question “What if Johnston wasn’t mortally wounded at Shiloh” as have asked “What if Jackson wasn’t mortally wounded at Chancellorsville?”
I am convinced that Johnston would have kept his troops moving on the first day of Shiloh. He would literally and figuratively have forced the Union army into the Tennessee River.
I like to think that he would have promptly dealt with the Union resistance in the Hornet’s Nest or at the mimimum, have bypassed them so he could keep pushing forward. Johnston knew that as long as the Union army was kept off balance that we could win the battle.
I would have enjoyed reading about how Johnston would have handled the battles of Stones River, Corinth or Shiloh.
A very commonly overlooked and underrated general imo. He gave Grant a very serious run for his money up until he was killed. I have heard it may have been a confederate soldier that delivered the mortal wound by accident, although that just may be rumor...
I loved Antietam. I spent damned near a whole day there back in ‘94. A fantastic battlefield. I was especially drawn to the Sunken Road. What an absolutely ghastly mess that must have been.
There’s a definite “what if” component to Antietam as well. What if George McClellan had actually believed that the “Lost Order” was real? He could have decimated the Army of Northern Virginia so badly that it would never go on the offensive again and badly hinder its ability to mount a good defense either.
The war might have ended a good year to two years early if McClellan has taken charge at Antietam. Instead he sat by with a whole army corps that wasn’t even put into battle while Lee and Jackson were able to fedd their troops in all day.
Excellent posts by both of you as to the reasons behind the march thru Georgia!
So, I’ve a friend in South Carolina that has a Rhode Island regimental flag, at least what is left of it. He said it was taken at 1st Manassas by one of his relatives.
Thank you—great info.
I have spent a day at Antietam. My favorite memories are of sitting alone in the Dunkers Church imagining the carnage in and around this humble structure(about 1/3 of it is the original timbers) as it became a field hospital for wounded soldiers of both sides that Sept. morning.
Another memory is walking along the Sunken Road. A last memory is walking over the “Burnside Bridge” and imagining the hellish fire coming from the rifle pits on the opposite bank. And wondering why the troops just didn’t rush across the shallow streambed instead of dying by the hundreds on the narrow bridge.
Antietam is a disarmingly beautiful battlefield that takes only a day to see. Start in the beginning of the battle in the early morning and follow the battle geographically throughout the corresponding time of the day of the battle.
Another fascinating fact—President William McKinley fought here as an Ohio sergeant.
According to the lore available, Winfield Scott Hancock was seriously wounded at Gettysburg but not killed.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.