Posted on 06/30/2008 6:54:22 PM PDT by mondoreb
Joe Horn, the infamous neighbor in Pasadena TX who shot two suspected burglars in the back in broad daylight last November, has been cleared by a Texas Grand Jury.
According to the Houston Chronicle, Horn "confronted" two men who had allegedly broken into a neighbor's house. Horn had called 911 where his conversation with the operator had been taped:
“Move,” Horn can be heard saying on the tape. “You’re dead.”Boom.
Click.
Boom.
Click.
Boom.
Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he’d done.
“I had no choice,” he said, his voice shaking. “They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick.”[1]
The two men were here in the country illegally, one of them had spent time in an American prison for dealing coke and then was deported back to Columbia in 1999.
(Excerpt) Read more at deathby1000papercuts.com ...
Sweet.
I agree with the no-bill decision, and I also agree with your statement about “80 years ago.” But I’ll bet that a couple of “poverty pimps,” Jackson and Sharpton, are weighing whether to go down there and join their little brother Quannell Xcrement in his quest to stoke up the wards.
Ping.
It’s a shame the liberal idiots insisted that this had to go to a grand jury.
In Texas Grand Jury testimony is supposed to be kept secret, but I wonder if the undercover detective who witnessed the whole thing (and did nada) while sitting in his car was called to testify before the Grand Jury.
>>>the only debate would have been: why Horn’s case was even considered by the Grand Jury.
The same thing would have happened 80 years ago by way of Grand Jury or Coroner’s Inquest. Even the Gunfight at the OK Corral led to such an inquiry. It was essential the law consider and resolve the issue whether a crime occurred. The No-True Bill will help protect Horn from civil liability.
An undercover guy was there? Watching? Doing nothing? What was his story? (I love Texas).
I haven’t seen this addressed, so I thought I’d bring it up for discussion. I’m 66 and I recall being told as a young child, that it was perfectly okay and legal for someone to put a “citizen’s arrest” on someone who was breaking the law. Not that I remember much about the concept, except that there could be times when the police were not at the scene, and an ordinary citizen could act as law enforcement and arrest someone.
The last 50 years, I haven’t heard much about this. In fact, the trend seems to be going in the other direction — that is, the ordinary citizen should be unarmed, silent, and look the other way when someone breaks the law.
50 years of this backward thinking has, perhaps, got us to where we are today. Hearing the 911 dispatcher telling Joe Horn NOT to take any action — tells me that the right of a citizen making a citizen’s arrest is a thing of the past.
All that this Harris County citizen was doing was trying to put a citizen’s arrest on these two burglars, and they resisted arrest. Resisting arrest can get one shot.
Any comments on this right to perform a citizen’s arrest? Is it still viable? Does it apply in this case in Pasadena, Texas?
Brilliant:
It’s a shame the liberal idiots insisted that this had to go to a grand jury.
Because homicide and murder have no statute of limitations. Under Texas law if a grand jury returns a "no-bill" (no indictment) a future district attorney would be prohibited from reopening the case unless there were new evidence. This protects people from being indicted by any politically ambitious but uncscrupulous prosecutor like a Spitzer reopening a case for no reason other than noteriety and self promotion. Also, the "no-bill" will protect Mr. Horn from civil suits along with the new "castle doctrine" law that became effective last year.
Good for Mr.Horn and the fine people of Texas.
If it truly went down as described, where a theft was taking
place and Mr Horn was not in danger of his life, a GJ is
quite appropriate, even in Texas. In most states Mr Horn
would be facing an indictment for manslaughter, and even
Texas has rules of criminal procedure. I would not have wanted to had been shot for traipsing next door to borrow the neighbors harrow or let him know his back pasture is on “faar”. Even criminals deaths should have the circumstances of their deaths ascertained and the legality
of the killing established. Mr Horn could have gone inside
and avoided being involved. Since he did not, he chose to
be a party to the incident. Its right that the law inquire
into the facts and I’m happy that Mr Horn will not lose his
freedom. But no one gets a license to kill except maybe
the sheriff himself. Oops - this is Harris Co? Maybe not.
All that is necessary for evil to prevail . . . . I think you are on target with the idea that a GJ is appropriate, esp. to establish the facts, clear Horn, and to send a message.
I guess the legality of Horn confronting the criminals depends on his relationship with his neighbor -- if I read the statute at the link below correctly, his neighbor needed to have requested Horn's action on his behalf; that could have been as simple as, "Hey, would you watch the place while I'm gone?"
It sounded from the transcript that yes, Horn did fear for his safety. I would think the issue would be his authority to be where he was when he shot the men.
http://tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/docs/PE/content/htm/pe.002.00.000009.00.htm
Looks like all is not lost in our society, so long as we have a few people left willing to look on and do something... Cheers to all.
You said:
If it truly went down as described, where a theft was taking
place and Mr Horn was not in danger of his life. . .
Dear Sir or Madam, as the case may be:
You are a part of the problem. If we look the other way when we (or our neighbors) are robbed — cannot you see that the criminal element will use this as their license to steal with immunity? That is exactly where we are today.
There must be a risk when one steals, and that risk must be THEIR life. The time has long past when theft, robbery, burgulary happens infrequently. And these days, it is not necessary to steal to buy food, because we have various charities which provide food for the indigent. Theft today is to feed drug addiction.
Wake up and smell the coffee. When we look the other way, crime doesn’t dimish. Rather like a ripple in a pond, the scope of crime gets larger — to include rape, kidnapping, torture, murder. It is all around us.
Thanks!
I’m in Houston.
I got all of this from what was reported in the news.
Apparently, while the burglary was going on, an unmarked police car was parked across the street and the police (plainclothes or investigater — whoever) witnessed the whole thing — sad that he didn’t help.
Mr. Horn lives in an upscale neighborhood in Pasadena Texas, and this happened at a time when most people were at work. Mr. Horn being retired, is known as being watchful over the neighborhood and considered himself to have been given authority to keep an eye out on behalf of his neighbors.
Mr. Horn observed two men carrying out belongings of his neighbor. He was armed, and he called 9-1-1 to report it, and he asked if he should try to stop them. And the dispatcher told him not to — to stay in his own house.
Mr. Horn didn’t want to do that. It is heard on the 9-1-1 tape of Mr. Horn loudly calling out “stop”, I think, 3 times. And then you hear the shots. Mr. Horn is quoted as saying they turned and come onto his property toward him, and he was afraid and he shot. The 2 men were shot in the back, so they must have decided he meant business and turned to leave, thus getting hit in the back — if what Mr. HOrn said was true.
They were illegals and had been arrested for house burgularies in the past.
It is not clear if the Grand Jury heard the testimony of the witness or not — G.J. proceedings are supposed to be secret. The G.J. did hear testimony from Mr. Horn, who said he regretted his actions.
Excellent points!
I’m going to forward your comment to LBG for follow up. Thanx!
The concept of citizen’s arrest is still valid—at least everywhere I checked.
However, I suspect that lawsuit-happy attorneys have dampened many people’s desire. Also, most law enforcement people I am acquainted with feel that a citizens arrest is “amateur hour”.
All regrettable.
*You are a part of the problem. If we look the other way *when we (or our neighbors) are robbed — cannot you see *that the criminal element will use this as their license *to steal with immunity? That is exactly where we are today.
Am I part of the problem? Because I question somebody’s
judgement in shooting and killing two people? I heard the
911 operator tell him that he needed to go inside and that
officers were on the way, and that he was not to confront
the thieves. He chose to disregard the 911 operators instructions, and offed two people. I’d say thats cause
for a GJ hearing.
*Wake up and smell the coffee. When we look the other way, *crime doesn’t dimish. Rather like a ripple in a pond, the *scope of crime gets larger
What makes you you think I advocted ignoring the crime?
People like you worry me if your only reaction is to off someone.
I know lots of people in this forum like the idea
of gunning down all manner of bad actors in the abstract, but in real life we are a society of laws. You aren’t the judge, jury, and executioner. We have freedom, but we also have responsibility.
I salute Mr Horn, I am happy he chose to confront crime,
and am relieved that in hindsight the guys he killed were
felons and that no others were hurt. I’m also glad that
Texas law looked at the incident as it does all homicides
and determines whether they occurred lawfully or not.
When seconds count, cops are minutes away.
You said:
Am I part of the problem? Because I question somebody’s
judgement in shooting and killing two people?
Excuse me, but you are not questioning his judgement. You think that he should have done nothing. That’s not questioning. That is endorsing doing nothing.
Yes, I repeat, you are part of the problem.
Mr. Horn had no idea how the situation was going to end. He didn’t intend to shot. He asked them to stop and not move — until the police arrive. If they would have dropped the stolen goods, put their hands up, and waiting — he would not have shot them.
No I did not say he should have done nothing.
If you think I said that please point it out.
He called 911, and confronted them. As I said
that is good and praiseworthy.
You must have a comprehension problem since
you are clearly unable to understand my points.
There are a lot of options that don’t include
ignoring the situation on the one hand and shooting
the suspects out of hand on the other. But then,
jumping to radical conclusions is a tradition in
this forum.
I'll bet he was helping already, before Horn got involved. From what I've seen on this story, those two thugs did not have a getaway car. They were shot heading in the general direction of this "unmarked" car as it was parked in front of Horn's house. I'm sure we all would like to know the whole story behind mr. "plainsclothesman" but since it ain't going to trial, I guess we won't.
Thank you for all the details. I did hear some of the tape on the show, but it was the part where the police were telling him not to shoot.
I appreciate all your time in helping me understand this.
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