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Veterans Long to Reclaim the Name ‘Swift Boat’ (Megabarf alert)
NY Times ^ | June 30, 2008 | KATE ZERNIKE

Posted on 06/30/2008 9:27:15 PM PDT by neverdem

Correction Appended

Years ago, when William Miller talked about being in the Vietnam War — if he talked about being in the Vietnam War — he would tell people he served on a Swift boat.

At least now they have heard of it. But not in the way he would like.

“I was proud of what I did, and all the guys I was with,” Mr. Miller said. “Now somebody says ‘Swift boat’ and it’s a whole different meaning. They don’t associate it with the guys we lost. That’s a shame.”

“Swift boat” has become the synonym for the nastiest of campaign smears, a shadow that hangs over the presidential race as pundits wait to proclaim that the Swiftboating has begun and candidates declare that they will not be Swiftboated.

Swift boat veterans — especially those who had nothing to do with the group that attacked Senator John Kerry’s military record in the 2004 election — want their good name back, and the good names of the men not lucky enough to come home alive.

“You would not hear the word ‘Swift boat’ and think of people that served their country and fought in Vietnam,” said Jim Newell, who spent a year as an officer in charge on one of the small Navy vessels in An Thoi and Qui Nhon. “You think about someone who was involved in a political attack on a member of a different party. It just comes across as negative. Everyone who is associated with a Swift boat is involved in political chicanery.”

Sure, Watergate will never be just the office complex. And the name Willie Horton will always refer to more than just a criminal. But for Swift boat veterans, the name theft is more personal. When they talk about Swift boats, they recall friends...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: johnkerry; liberals; obama; swiftboat; swiftboating; vietnam; vietnamvets
regular webpage with pics
1 posted on 06/30/2008 9:27:15 PM PDT by neverdem
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To: neverdem

Puke!


2 posted on 06/30/2008 9:30:58 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

Oh for the days of PT 109 and a new Obamalot


3 posted on 06/30/2008 9:32:25 PM PDT by mylife (The Roar Of The Masses Could Be Farts)
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To: neverdem

These Swift Boat guys sound like they think they might have been Borked.


4 posted on 06/30/2008 9:33:04 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (De-Globalize yourself !)
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To: neverdem

I still think it’s funny to hear people calling telling the truth a “smear”. It’s not like the SBVFT tried to obfuscate their position, or hide their identities.


5 posted on 06/30/2008 9:36:56 PM PDT by Little Pig (Is it time for "Cowboys and Muslims" yet?)
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To: neverdem

Good thing Kerry released all of his records to clear his good name.


6 posted on 06/30/2008 9:40:30 PM PDT by neodad (USS Vincennes (CG 49) "Freedom's Fortress")
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To: neodad
Good thing Kerry released all of his records to clear his good name.

Yeah, and that lawsuit against the Swifties for libel and defamation of character was something to behold, wasn't it?

7 posted on 06/30/2008 9:46:37 PM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: neverdem
“Swift boat” has become the synonym for the nastiest of campaign smears,

And it was the lying John Kerrys of the world making up fantastic tales of war crimes witnesses and participated in an fanciful missions to Cambodia on secret assignment by Richard Nixon two months before he was even sworn in that made "Vietnam Veteran" synonymous with "baby killer".

If any veteran who served on a swift boat believes that his service has been sullied, he needs to look to the DNC who turned "swift boat" into a verb and trashed the men who dared speak out against a traitor who lied to Congress and was a part of an organization that plotted to assassinate elected members of Congress.

Truth hurts and Kerry never HAS released his documents for public scrutiny. Sharing them with a friendly journalist at the Boston Glob does not pass the smell test.

8 posted on 06/30/2008 9:47:12 PM PDT by weegee
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To: neverdem

9 posted on 06/30/2008 9:47:39 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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To: neverdem

An Obama guy started to smear the Swiftboats on H and C tonight, and Rich Lowry tore him a new one. It was incredible to hear.

Basically he said the “swiftboater” they were denigrated was a decorated hero and the stuff movies were made of. And the reason it stuck was because Kerry threw his medals over a fence.


10 posted on 06/30/2008 9:49:49 PM PDT by I still care ("Remember... for it is the doom of men that they forget" - Merlin, from Excalibur)
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To: neverdem

More revisionism on behalf of Jon Carry — I would hope that anyone who cares about the reputation of Vietnam War veterans would be appalled by Jon Carry’s vicious assaults on ALL of them when he launched his scurrilous political career:


When testifying before a Senate committee, Kerry said, “ . . . [W]e had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. . . . They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in a fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the country side of South Vietnam . . . “

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/LarryElder/2006/05/04/senator_ted_kennedy_—_peace_criminal


11 posted on 06/30/2008 9:49:57 PM PDT by Enchante (OBAMA: "That's not the Wesley Clark I knew!")
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To: neverdem
I will always be proud to be a Vietnam veteran, Swift Boat, armor, infantry, artillery...whatever.

PROUD!

12 posted on 06/30/2008 9:52:52 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: Enchante

Thanks for the link.


13 posted on 06/30/2008 9:59:05 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: neverdem
Kerry is 100% responsible for any inkling of a negative connotation for the term Swift Boat in all of it's forms.
14 posted on 06/30/2008 9:59:55 PM PDT by Syncro (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
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To: neverdem

15 posted on 06/30/2008 10:00:17 PM PDT by smoothsailing
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Comment #16 Removed by Moderator

To: neverdem

This guy must be a real brain trust not to have figured out that Swift Boat Vets is the name for a reason. It was Swift Boat Vets who were involved. Duh!


17 posted on 06/30/2008 10:02:00 PM PDT by DoughtyOne ( I say no to the Hillary Clinton wing of the Republican party. Not now or ever, John McCain...)
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To: neverdem
“You would not hear the word ‘Swift boat’ and think of people that served their country and fought in Vietnam,” said Jim Newell."

If you had any sense, Mr. Newell, you would realize that it was kerry who smeared you and that it was the Swift Boat Veterans and POWs for Truth that stood up to the charlatan and cleared your name. But, I have a feeling that you already know the truth.

18 posted on 06/30/2008 10:12:37 PM PDT by Eagles6 ( Typical White Guy: Christian, Constitutionalist, Heterosexual, Redneck)
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To: neverdem

Swift Boat only became a vulgarity when the NYT decided that it as unfair to challenge the comic book heroics of John F’ing Kerry (because it might hurt his chances of tricking the electorate).


19 posted on 06/30/2008 10:15:44 PM PDT by bpjam (Drill For Oil or Lose Your Job!! Vote Nov 2008)
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To: neverdem
The left's calculated and specious forced-morph of "swiftboat" into a verb with unsavory connotations will not change my respect and gratitude for the Swifties who would not let Mister Kerry live his many wartime lies.

I'll take this opportunity to introduce a new verb into the lexicon...

Blackopsing means claiming hazardous duty which you were never involved.

Mister Kerry has Blackopsed several times about his alleged service in Vietnam.

20 posted on 06/30/2008 10:16:37 PM PDT by Seaplaner (Never give in. Never give in. Never...except to convictions of honour and good sense. W. Churchill)
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To: neverdem
“Swift boat” has become the synonym for the nastiest of campaign smears

If that's what you think, serve you right..

"Swift Boating" is actually synonymous with having your peers tell the truth about you.

T. Boone Pickens' one million dollars for the first person to disprove the Swiftboaters' claims is STILL on the table unclaimed...

21 posted on 06/30/2008 10:21:55 PM PDT by Wil H
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To: Bernard Marx

“Yeah, and that lawsuit against the Swifties for libel and defamation of character was something to behold, wasn’t it?”

SCOTUS has made it just about impossible to get a judgment for libel or slander if you are a big time political candidate. I think it was Sullivan v. NYT.


22 posted on 06/30/2008 10:36:54 PM PDT by vanishing liberty
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To: neverdem

23 posted on 06/30/2008 10:41:54 PM PDT by Interesting Times (Swiftboating, you say? Check out ToSetTheRecordStraight.com)
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To: wardaddy; Joe Brower; Cannoneer No. 4; Criminal Number 18F; Dan from Michigan; Eaker; Jeff Head; ...
A Nation of Riflemen First Needs Men (MUST READ!)

The Ancient Right

Are Obama Supporters Shutting Down Blogs? (Free Republic mentioned)

Obama groupies eating their own

From time to time, I’ll ping on noteworthy articles about politics, foreign and military affairs. FReepmail me if you want on or off my list.

24 posted on 07/01/2008 12:54:11 AM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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To: FlingWingFlyer

25 posted on 07/01/2008 12:54:41 AM PDT by wastedyears (Obama is a Texas Post Turtle.)
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To: neverdem

Nice, they’re going to “reclaim” it because the Swift Boat group that helped defeat that Frenchie John Kerry formally disbanded a few weeks ago.

How brave of them: now claiming something that has been left behind.


26 posted on 07/01/2008 1:54:31 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (Just say NObama!)
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To: mylife
Swift boat” has become the synonym for the nastiest of campaign smears brave men who took on the media myth that John Kerry was some kind of war hero.

Fixed.

27 posted on 07/01/2008 1:55:50 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat (Just say NObama!)
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To: neverdem
“Swift boat” has become the synonym for the nastiest of campaign smears, a shadow that hangs over the presidential race as pundits wait to proclaim that the Swiftboating has begun and candidates declare that they will not be Swiftboated.

Unfortunately, this statement is true.

What is amazing is that the MSM has made it true without, as far as I know, finding even a single statement made by the Swiftboaters that was proven false. John Kerry has been offered $1,000,000 if he could prove that the Swiftboaters were lying. He has, so far, failed to collect.

It is the an example of how the MSM manipulates our language to further their socialist/marxist agenda. Do not doubt their power to continue to do so. There influence may be declining but it is still a dominant force in American politics.

28 posted on 07/01/2008 4:31:48 AM PDT by InterceptPoint
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To: neverdem
"Everyone who is associated with a Swift boat is involved in political chicanery.”

Everyone?
B.S.
Just one that I know of: John Kerry.

29 posted on 07/01/2008 5:10:49 AM PDT by XR7
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To: mylife

> Oh for the days of PT 109 and a new Obamalot

I read a great book when I was a kid, called something like “They Were Expendable”, about the Patrol Torpedo boats and their crews that were abandoned by McArthur in the Philippines during his retreat from the Japanese, and how these boats courageously fought the Japs and sought refuge and petrol and torpedoes in and amongst the Philippine Islands as they tried to evade capture...

...I couldn’t have been too much older than nine or ten when I last read it. It was a series of interviews, as I recall, with guys named Kelly and Burkelly (sp) and a few others...

Unforgettable. Can’t find the book anywhere. I know John Ford made a movie in 1945 by the same name, haven’t seen it though.

Now THOSE were swift-boats!


30 posted on 07/01/2008 5:42:51 AM PDT by DieHard the Hunter (Is mise an ceann-cinnidh. Cha ghéill mi do dhuine. Fàg am bealach.)
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To: Enchante
Kerry speaks about HIS War Crimes (May 6, 2001 - April 18, 1971)
(Audiotape, April 18, 1971):

MR. CROSBY NOYES (Washington Evening Star): Mr. Kerry, you said at one time or another that you think our policies in Vietnam are tantamount to genocide and that the responsibility lies at all chains of command over there. Do you consider that you personally as a Naval officer committed atrocities in Vietnam or crimes punishable by law in this country?

KERRY: There are all kinds of atrocities, and I would have to say that, yes, yes, I committed the same kind of atrocities as thousands of other soldiers have committed in that I took part in shootings in free fire zones. I conducted harassment and interdiction fire. I used 50 calibre machine guns, which we were granted and ordered to use, which were our only weapon against people. I took part in search and destroy missions, in the burning of villages. All of this is contrary to the laws of warfare, all of this is contrary to the Geneva Conventions and all of this is ordered as a matter of written established policy by the government of the United States from the top down. And I believe that the men who designed these, the men who designed the free fire zone, the men who ordered us, the men who signed off the air raid strike areas, I think these men, by the letter of the law, the same letter of the law that tried Lieutenant Calley, are war criminals.

(End audiotape)

(Russert on May 6, 2001)

MR. RUSSERT: Thirty years later, you stand by that?

SEN. KERRY: I don't stand by the genocide. I think those were the words of an angry young man.

Ergo John Kerry lied in a time of war to lower morale in America among the citizens, government, and troops to sway the support against the war in aid and comfort of the enemy. TRAITOR.

31 posted on 07/01/2008 6:33:41 AM PDT by weegee (CHANGE? A more truthful slogan would be to proclaim Obama the candidate of FLIP FLOP.)
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To: InterceptPoint

Why is it called “Borking” instead of using Kennedyism to slur a nominee?


32 posted on 07/01/2008 6:35:12 AM PDT by weegee (CHANGE? A more truthful slogan would be to proclaim Obama the candidate of FLIP FLOP.)
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To: vanishing liberty
Yes, it's difficult for a public figure to prove libel due to Sullivan's requirement for proof of "actual malice." But if Our Hero (who served in Vietnam, by the way) did what he says he did and has the documents to prove it, the malice requirement should be a breeze IMO.

My earlier response was half joking. But Kerry has done nothing substantive to prove the Swifties wrong. He's used his money and connections to mount an anti-Swifty propaganda campaign in the media instead. Were I in his place, especially with all that Heinz money, and knew the Swifties were making unfounded and malicious accusations, I'd have a battery of lawyers working 24/7 against them.

33 posted on 07/01/2008 6:51:23 AM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: Bernard Marx

If I were in his place, I think I’d move to another country where nobody knows me and go on from there.


34 posted on 07/01/2008 7:13:25 AM PDT by vanishing liberty
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To: InterceptPoint
It is the an example of how the MSM manipulates our language to further their socialist/marxist agenda. Do not doubt their power to continue to do so. There influence may be declining but it is still a dominant force in American politics.

One of the major ways the Left has altered American culture and political life is through the "politically correct" misuse of language. It's an incredibly potent weapon. Small example:

It wasn't that many years ago that the term "illegal alien" was used universally to describe anyone who was in this country illegally. But that sounded negative and judgmental to Marxists in academia and the media, and it hindered their agenda of deconstructing American society. They've deliberately and gradually morphed it into terms like "undocumented immigrant," utterly changing the meaning. Other euphemisms in wide use that alter meaning are "clandestine workers," "out of status," "unauthorized immigrant," "irregular immigrant," etc.

These terms change the way people think and play on their sympathies. Try saying the words "illegal alien" in most social gatherings today and see what response you get.

35 posted on 07/01/2008 7:29:56 AM PDT by Bernard Marx
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To: I still care; singfreedom

Wish I had seen that....


36 posted on 07/01/2008 9:22:33 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach (No Burkas for my Grandaughters!)
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To: Baynative
Donating to the Swift Boat Vets, and later to Steve Gardner (Who lost everything for being a part of the group) was the best money I have ever invested!!!
37 posted on 07/01/2008 11:18:18 AM PDT by JDoutrider (Obama= Not Hope & Change! He brings Hype & Chains!)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; I still care
I wish I had seen it,too. The scumbag Coombs, dumbest man in America, takes every opportunity to smear the Swifties. The worst part is he never bothers to give any evidence of such.
38 posted on 07/01/2008 9:06:36 PM PDT by singfreedom
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To: JDoutrider
Yes, hubby and I “invested” in both the “Vietnam Vets Against John Kerry” and the “Swifties”-—and are more than proud to have done so. I still have a “Vets Against Kerry” bumper sticker on my car and it's going to stay there-—just in case that dummy ever decides to run again!
39 posted on 07/01/2008 9:20:02 PM PDT by singfreedom
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To: neverdem
New information on Kerry's "No Man Left Behind" story is available here.

40 posted on 07/02/2008 2:33:40 PM PDT by Interesting Times (Swiftboating, you say? Check out ToSetTheRecordStraight.com)
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To: Interesting Times

Thanks for the link. IIRC, during the late 1970s or 1980s, the North Vietnamese commies offered the French bones from the battle at Dien Bien Phu in 1954, for money of course.


41 posted on 07/02/2008 2:40:26 PM PDT by neverdem (I'm praying for a Divine Intervention.)
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