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Deal Hudson: Obama and Infanticide?
Catholic online ^ | 7/2/08 | Deal W. Hudson

Posted on 07/01/2008 4:13:21 PM PDT by tcg

Infanticide is becoming a touchy subject for Barack Obama.

So much so that his supporters either deny that their candidate ever voted against the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, or they describe his votes as "procedural," as if Obama never really opposed providing medical treatment for infants who survived an abortion.

The facts show otherwise.

The Born Alive Infant Protection Act was first introduced in the Illinois legislature in 2001 after nurse Jill Stanek revealed that babies born alive in Christ Hospital in botched abortion procedures were left to die, unattended by medical personnel.

That same year Stanek testified before the Judiciary Committee, where Obama asked whether the bill would subvert a woman's right to abortion. Obama voted against the bill in committee but "present" on the Senate floor.

When the bill was reintroduced in 2002, Obama again voted against it in committee and was the only state senator to speak against it on the Senate floor. Again the bill was defeated with Obama voting "no" and leading the opposition...

(Excerpt) Read more at catholic.org ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: abortion; catholics; infanticide; obama
The Roman Catholics for Obama Web site has no mention of his opposition to the Born Alive Infant's Protection Act.
1 posted on 07/01/2008 4:13:25 PM PDT by tcg
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To: tcg

Strange they don’t mention the ‘born alive protection bill.’ That is the most important thing about this whole thing..that he would refuse help to a baby that survived and leave them ‘shelved’ to die. This COLD and it gives a real incite into this man.


2 posted on 07/01/2008 4:17:03 PM PDT by patriot08
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To: tcg

Do they give the prenatal life pain killers before they start to abort it?


3 posted on 07/01/2008 4:17:29 PM PDT by Gene Eric
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To: tcg

“The Roman Catholics for Obama Web site has no mention of his opposition to the Born Alive Infant’s Protection Act.”

Email this to them.


4 posted on 07/01/2008 4:17:56 PM PDT by Forgiven_Sinner (For God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son that whosoever believes in Him should not die)
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To: tcg

1 minute satirical Obama video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR6b-kWncI4

Hurry before some diversity loving (RIGHT!) Obamaniac at YouTube pulls it.


5 posted on 07/01/2008 4:24:23 PM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: tcg
"Obama's record on abortion is extreme. He opposed the ban on partial-birth abortion -- a practice a fellow Democrat, the late Daniel Patrick Moynihan, once called 'too close to infanticide.' Obama strongly criticized the Supreme Court decision upholding the partial-birth ban. In the Illinois state Senate, he opposed a bill similar to the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, which prevents the killing of infants mistakenly left alive by abortion. And now Obama has oddly claimed he would not want his daughters to be 'punished with a baby' because of a crisis pregnancy -- hardly a welcoming attitude toward new life."
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/04/caseys_endorsement_lacks_fathe.html


From OnTheIssues.org: Obama on Abortion

* Ok for state to restrict late-term partial birth abortion. (Apr 2008)
* We can find common ground between pro-choice and pro-life. (Apr 2008)
* Undecided on whether life begins at conception. (Apr 2008)
* Teach teens about abstinence and also about contraception. (Apr 2008)
* GovWatch: Obama's "present" votes were a requested strategy. (Feb 2008)
* Expand access to contraception; reduce unintended pregnancy. (Feb 2008)
* Rated 100% by NARAL on pro-choice votes in 2005, 2006 & 2007. (Jan 2008)
* Voted against banning partial birth abortion. (Oct 2007)
* Stem cells hold promise to cure 70 major diseases. (Aug 2007)
* Trust women to make own decisions on partial-birth abortion. (Apr 2007)
* Extend presumption of good faith to abortion protesters. (Oct 2006)
* Constitution is a living document; no strict constructionism. (Oct 2006)
* Moral accusations from pro-lifers are counterproductive. (Oct 2004)
* Pass the Stem Cell Research Bill. (Jun 2004)
* Protect a woman's right to choose. (May 2004)
* Supports Roe v. Wade. (Jul 1998)
* Voted NO on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
* Voted NO on prohibiting minors crossing state lines for abortion. (Mar 2008)
* Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
* Voted NO on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
* Voted YES on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
* Sponsored bill providing contraceptives for low-income women. (May 2006)
* Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)
* Ensure access to and funding for contraception. (Feb 2007)

http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm#Abortion


From OnTheIssues.org: John McCain on Abortion:

* Pro-life and an advocate for the Rights of Man everywhere. (Feb 2008)
* GovWatch: 1999: Don't force women to have illegal operations. (Feb 2008)
* Abortion issue shows what kind of country we are. (Aug 2007)
* Concerned if women undergo illegal dangerous operations. (May 2007)
* Supports federal funding of embryonic stem cell research. (May 2007)
* Prosecute abortion doctors, not women who get them. (Jan 2000)
* “Family Conference” if daughter wanted an abortion. (Jan 2000)
* Abortion OK if raped; and no testing for rape. (Jan 2000)
* Supports fetal tissue research; against over-intensity. (Jan 2000)
* Overturn Roe v. Wade, but keep incest & rape exceptions. (Jan 2000)
* Support adoption & foster care; work together on abortion. (Oct 1999)
* Wants Roe vs. Wade made irrelevant, but would not repeal it. (Aug 1999)
* Opposes partial-birth abortions & public financing. (Aug 1999)
* Nominate justices based on experience, and values. (Jun 1999)
* Restrict abortions; no partial-birth; no public funding. (Jul 1998)

Voting Record
* Supports repealing Roe v. Wade. (May 2007)
* Voted YES on defining unborn child as eligible for SCHIP. (Mar 2008)
* Voted YES on barring HHS grants to organizations that perform abortions. (Oct 2007)
* Voted YES on expanding research to more embryonic stem cell lines. (Apr 2007)
* Voted YES on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions. (Jul 2006)
* Voted NO on $100M to reduce teen pregnancy by education & contraceptives. (Mar 2005)
* Voted YES on criminal penalty for harming unborn fetus during other crime. (Mar 2004)
* Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions except for maternal life. (Mar 2003)
* Voted YES on maintaining ban on Military Base Abortions. (Jun 2000)
* Voted YES on banning partial birth abortions. (Oct 1999)
* Voted YES on banning human cloning. (Feb 1998)
* Rated 0% by NARAL, indicating a pro-life voting record. (Dec 2003)
* Expand embryonic stem cell research. (Jun 2004)
* Rated 75% by the NRLC, indicating a mixed record on abortion. (Dec 2006)

http://www.ontheissues.org/John_McCain.htm

6 posted on 07/01/2008 4:27:58 PM PDT by ETL (Plenty of REAL smoking-gun evidence on the demonRats at my FR home page)
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To: tcg
I think Obama has consistently shown he is indifferent to the downside of abortion, lives of innocents who have NO choice or to please his constituency. How anybody with two beautiful daughters like he has and seems to care deeply about, I will never comprehend his thinking with OTHER people's daughters and sons sacrified usually for convenience. A lot of people, even catholics, don't care or care more about other "social" issues. Abortion IS a social issue. I just don't understand, and once I was kind of pro abortion but something changed my mind right quick years ago, thank heaven and may have at least saved a couple of my grandchildrens' lives and my ex's grandchild who turned around and in gratitude for his life that had been spared, was nasty to my daughter (it was my other daughter who I taught abortion was wrong who hid her for a week when she ran away and the school counsellor intervened, but I don't think he knew his grandfather (my ex) wanted to have him aborted and forced her to have another one I didn't know about. His wife did have an abortion for medical reasons, she nearly died having the child before that.

I did mention to a nurse (not in a combative way, she wanted to know what I had against Obama so I told her). She happens to be catholic, gung ho for Obama or Hillary, either one, doesn't like Republicans, that was one of my main objections to him (there are others), despite his charisma. She said they did that in nursing school with babies born without brains or seriously defective, so I didn't argue about it, but think a lot of it is just plain infanticide though I am no professional.

Other people I've mentioned it to just don't seem to care or understand what it truly means. It's frustrating trying to understand that mindset.

My sister is far more educated than I, but I did get her to rethink her stance on pro choice, not necessarily convert her entirely. She said partial birth abortions were for babies who didn't feel anything because some are Down's or have no brains. That is simply not true with all of them and doesn't excuse it anyway AFAIC.

I've lived this in my own life, and keeping a baby and giving it life or putting it up for adoption is a lot harder than just getting rid of a problem. Of course, you never tell children that if you know how close they came and why. I try not to be too hard on them, know personally one who is a mess partly because of that. Her mother, who died a catholic in good standing, paid for an abortion for her sister. I wonder if she ever confessed it, not my business really.

I really don't know many who have had abortions who openly admit it, but some of the ones who have regret it later when it is too late. One girl I met in a mental health program years and years ago whose boyfriend convinced her to get one, was sterile after that. She was very remorseful and bitter. They always remember how old their child would have been. Some just don't seemed bothered by it.

7 posted on 07/01/2008 5:09:00 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Coleus; nickcarraway; narses; Mr. Silverback; Canticle_of_Deborah; TenthAmendmentChampion; ...
Pro-Life PING

Please FreepMail me if you want on or off my Pro-Life Ping List.

8 posted on 07/01/2008 8:00:02 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: tcg
Deal Hudson: Obama and Infanticide?

Ad asks Obama: ‘If fatherhood begins at conception, when does life begin?’

Embryonic stem-cell research immoral, unnecessary, bishops say

Catholics should not vote for Obama

Catholic Caucus: It is a sin to vote/support Obama/DNC [abortion]

More Catholics leaning towards Democrats, poll reports (really not Catholics)

The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)

Obama's Abortion Bombshell: Unrestricted Abortion....

NARAL Catholics Line Up for Obama

Editorial: Disagreeing with Doug Kmiec One More Time

State-Funded Embryo Research "Makes Taxpayers Complicit in Killing", say Bishops

McCain Meets Privately with Fr. Pavone - Says Constitutional Right to Life Applies to Unborn

Faithful Citizenship: “Catholic Vote” is very sought after

Has Obama dissolved his Catholic advisory council?

Commentary: Faithful Citizenship and the Formed Conscience

Catholic League: Where's Obama's 'Catholic Advisory Council'? [Not to be found!]

Right-wing Christians beginning to lean left (Misleading headline)

Catholics Debate Obama Vote

US Bishops Urge Voters to Give Priority to Life [Ecumenical]

Corralling the Catholic vote: Political necessity or pipe dream?

DOUG KMIEC: Catholic Reasons for Hope in the General Election

EDITORIAL: Why This Catholic Dreads the Campaign

The Catholic-Obama Problem (Pope Benedict XVI instructs Catholics about pro-abortion candidates)

Thoughts On ‘Roman Catholics For Obama’

How Obama's Catholics Will Dodge the Infanticide Question

Catholic Pro-Life Leader Feuds With Barack Obama's "Catholic" Backers

McCain and the Pope: McCain cannot win in November without the Catholic vote (Reagan re-visited?)

Catholics Cannot Vote for Pols Who Support Abortion, Except for Morally Grave Reasons: KY Bishops

9 posted on 07/01/2008 8:32:23 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: ETL

Thanks for posting these.


10 posted on 07/01/2008 8:33:14 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: cpforlife.org
Catholicis who vote for Obama basically will excommunicate themselves.

enter the Table of Contents of the Catechism of the Catholic Church here

1: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2271  (618 bytes )  preview document matches
1 Since the first century the Church has affirmed the moral evil of every procured abortion. This teaching has not changed and remains unchangeable. Direct abortion,
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2271.htm
97%**********

2: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2272  (580 bytes )  preview document matches
2 Formal cooperation in an abortion constitutes a grave offense. The Church attaches the canonical penalty of excommunication to this crime against human life. "A
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2272.htm
96%**********

3: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2322  (290 bytes )  preview document matches
2 From its conception, the child has the right to life. Direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, is a "criminal" practice (GS 27 § 3),
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2322.htm
96%**********

4: CCC Search Result - Paragraph # 2274  (554 bytes )  preview document matches
gravely opposed to the moral law when this is done with the thought of possibly inducing an abortion, depending upon the results: a diagnosis must not be the equivalent
URL: http://www.scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2274.htm

11 posted on 07/01/2008 8:34:52 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: tcg; antonius

12 posted on 07/01/2008 8:35:23 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Salvation

You’re welcome. Thanks for posting your info. That “OnTheIssues.org” site seems pretty good. It covers nearly everything on every politician, at least the major ones anyway.


13 posted on 07/01/2008 8:41:45 PM PDT by ETL (Plenty of REAL smoking-gun evidence on the demonRats at my FR home page)
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To: Salvation
Yes. And that's what so disgusting about Fr. Pfleger with those in his camp and Cardinal George's handling of that disgraceful situation.

The stage was set for the Cardinal to hit a grand slam historic teaching and correcting series on the preeminence of the life issue.

The fact that this "priest" is heavily supporting this most pro-abort pol was not even mentioned for being removed for a whole whopping week.

14 posted on 07/01/2008 9:03:27 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (A Catholic Respect Life Curriculum is available FREE at KnightsForLife.org)
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To: Aliska

It must be true that his own mother, if permitted at the time, may have very well had an abortion. She was single, her boyfriend was black and the year was I guess in the early 60s. According to Obama, his own life should have ended in abortion. I’m not saying it should have, I’m just saying it could have according his own beliefs.


15 posted on 07/01/2008 10:33:27 PM PDT by Raquel (Abortion ruins lives.)
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To: tcg; informavoracious; larose; RJR_fan; Prospero; Conservative Vermont Vet; V V Camp Enari 67-68; ..
+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

16 posted on 07/02/2008 4:20:22 AM PDT by narses (...the spirit of Trent is abroad once more.)
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To: Raquel
I think by the 60's, it was legal in NY state, and some women did get back alley abortions or possibly left the country and got them. It was never even talked about where I grew up, but I read about it in the paper which is how I found out what abortions were.

But using back alley abortions as an excuse for legalizing it doesn't wash either. That is a "choice", too, to have one of those. If they're so pro choice, why do they care what a woman does (other than vote for them)?

That is new to me that his mother may have had one, probably conjecture. It's possible. It got me wondering about a lot of things I probably didn't know about that happened in the 20's and 30's even before I was born.

17 posted on 07/02/2008 7:45:04 AM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska
The number of “back-alley abortions” was severely exaggerated and the truth is, that it was more often than not, doctors performing illegal abortions.

The abortion movement originated with the eugenics society, who believe that some individuals shouldn't be allowed to be born at all, blacks, the poor and the stupid.

Abortion is a big hoax that's killing innocent lives, and destroying families.

My feeling is that abortion has probably killed future scientists, lawyers, doctors, and yes presidents. For a black “Christian” man, he should know that it is blacks that are targeted the most, and by percentage are being killed through abortion at a higher rate than any other race. It's a damn shame.

18 posted on 07/02/2008 2:48:30 PM PDT by Raquel (Abortion ruins lives.)
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To: Raquel
I figured they were exaggerated for propaganda purposes; who could refute them and with what evidence? My neighbor said her aunt in St. Louis had 6 way back when, probably some woman who knew how to do it. But it was probably many doctors like you say performing illegal abortions mixed in whatever figures they pulled out of a hat.

I try to keep up on it, and blacks seem the #1 race considering percentage of population that are getting them. I wish they'd wise up. Our town fought them coming here and won, then the darn city next to us which is really a middle-class and wealthy town, not many poor, not many blacks, their city council approved it, about 3 miles or less from me. That was probably over 10 years ago now. Some people go there just for birth control though, so not everybody going there is for an abortion.

So go figure. Our city is going downhill fast with scumbags coming in, drugs, shootings, and ghettoized for the poor of all races.

So we had a guy come from Michigan and drive his car through the womens' health clinic in my town, thought it was an abortion clinic. At least they got them out of the local hospitals as far as I know.

I think all sorts of people use the services. Too bad we have to have one so close in a really nice area. Some really fought hard against it, just not enough.

19 posted on 07/02/2008 6:17:20 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

“She said partial birth abortions were for babies who didn’t feel anything because some are Down’s or have no brains. “

This. Abortion is still eugenics. Close to 90% (if not more) parents who get a prenatal diagnosis of downs syndrome abort their babies, and it’s a legal reason in the third trimester.

It makes me want to scream. It has made me cry. To kill your child just because he or she is disabled. To have it written into our laws that these children can be killed when others can’t because of their condition. I was unaware that Downs babies were incapable of feeling pain and I’m still skeptical, I’m pretty sure they can just as much as any baby at that late a stage. But really, it doesn’t matter. If I anesthetize you and cut off your arm against your will, it doesn’t make it any better that I cut off your arm against you will just because it was painless. It is still wrong, wrong, wrong.


20 posted on 07/03/2008 4:58:06 AM PDT by lymelady
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To: lymelady
No, I didn't mean all of them don't feel pain. I'm positive many do. Plus sometimes those diagnoses are wrong or the baby isn't that disabled. More than one confronted set of parents decided to carry the baby to term anyway, and it was perfectly normal.

I don't know why I stuck pain in there. When talking to the nurse, that word didn't come up. I think it was my friend, haven't seen him for years who blasted me for something I wouldn't do because of conscience, and for some odd reason it shot in my head to retort: "Did you ever cause a girl to have an abortion?" He answered, "I helped pay for one once." Can't remember how the rest of it went, but he said "They don't feel anything." Yes, he probably was talking about earlier terminations, but it doesn't make any difference to me if they feel pain or not or when the pain sensing mechanism kicks in.

It was his child and would have been his parents' only grandchild. No remorse, happened to be a liberal Jew who said/led prayers every Saturday night (for awhile) at the synagogue. This was years ago.

All right. I'll say it. I got to thinking about my daughter's wedding which she planned and was in super catholic mode but even without that, he was catholic and divorced and didn't get an annulment. He also had a very serious cocaine habit which was hell for us while it lasted. Finally they broke up. I think my daughter was doing drugs, too, but functioned better than he did. He set their apt on fire when she was in rehab so they took off for CA. Out there, he got crazy again, she had to drive up to Oregon on mountainous roads when he tried to commit suicide by jumping in front of a car on a city street. Then one kidney shut down, and it was nip and tuck. Last I heard, years later, he had gone clean. I'm pretty sure my daughter got off all drugs, too, but still drinks too much beer, didn't think you could die of alcoholism on beer. I think you can in the quantities she sometimes drinks but could be wrong.

A few days before the wedding, the words of the ceremony kept going through my head, "If anyone objects . . .let them speak now or forever hold their peace." I don't think they read those words any more, but I would have sat there objecting even though it was a Methodist minister and he didn't care about the divorce (or the other or didn't know).

So I decided in good conscience I shouldn't go, and it was hard because people judged me for it, others may just have wondered a little. Wasn't the first time I couldn't do something (that was because I was totally emotionally exhausted and couldn't make another trip, anywhere) normally people do, and got criticized for that, too.

21 posted on 07/03/2008 7:53:27 AM PDT by Aliska
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To: Aliska

You’re right there, the tests aren’t always right, it doesn’t really matter even if they’re wrong because that’s still a human child, and it doesn’t matter if the baby feels pain or not because again that is still a human child and killing that baby is wrong regardless of how much pain can be felt.

I would’ve made the same choice. I would not want my child to go down a destructive road, and I would not want to seem like I was condoning it. It would be too hard to watch, too. She’s in my prayers.


22 posted on 07/03/2008 9:04:50 AM PDT by lymelady (I have too much respect for women to ever be a feminazi.)
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To: lymelady
I agree with you about their being human. People used to accept their misfortunates and just learn to cope with it before we came up with all these tests and have to have a perfect baby. There ain't no such thing.

When I think over my positions and stances, I consider what if it were me, and I had a very disabled child? So it's not that I don't emphasize with what some people go through. But I had healthy children, the usual childhood stuff, a few bad times, it's life, and if I had a child that was so bad off I couldn't cope with it, I might institutionalize it, but now we know what happens to some of those poor, defenseless children. There is a lot of help out there for people with disabled children. Sometimes they even seem to get more preferential treatment in some ways than normal children, if they manage to be born. Only if they live. The social agencies, schools and services move heaven and earth for these children. Some they mainstream when they shouldn't imo. Many turn out to be great blessings to their families.

Thank you for your prayers for my daughter and in support of my decision. I think I would do it all over again except if it were just the divorce issue, most people think I am too picky about that, and indeed, maybe I am. I tried to raise them right with good values and morals, but I guess my mind was on my generation, and I was simply unprepared to cope with some of the things that I was confronted with in their generation. I was a single, divorced mom, never had a live-in boyfriend, never married again. But there comes a time when you cannot control the choices your children make.

My daughter has some some new devices inserted into her fallopian tubes (I wonder how safe they are over the long haul). She should NOT have any more children. My advice was to quit screwing around. But she decided to do it. I told her there was enough catholic left in me that I couldn't help her in her decision, even though I know she should not have any more children. With this last one, she at first wanted an abortion, couldn't be an enabler for that either, knowing full well then the problems that lay ahead. Trying to do the right thing is very hard sometimes, and I am by no means any saint. Funny, it was their father with the drinking problem, I drank socially but wanted to set an example, so don't drink at all for years and years now. A lot of good it did. All three of my kids have had serious drinking problems, each one different. I had to get to the point where I quit blaming myself. That one daughter, my son and I went down and got her committed once. Then I didn't want her to feel I betrayed so I told her and asked her if she was going to wait for the police to come pick her up or would she get in the car and I take her there. She got in the car.

A lot of good it did. She went for a hearing a week or so later, her friends all showed up, I was there all by myself, was so nervous didn't present my case very well, and the liberal judge let her go, problem (a serious health issue that need immediate attention as well, bad pap smear) unresolved. How those girls cheered and laughed at me. Then she took off for CA again. But eventually the chickens come home to roost. Then I have to watch that.

That's enough. I talk too much.

23 posted on 07/03/2008 10:17:53 AM PDT by Aliska
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