Posted on 07/02/2008 6:45:42 AM PDT by Red Badger
Austin (Texas) – BMW’s Hydrogen 7 sedan may still be a few years away, but if you just can’t wait and have the necessary cash on hand, you may be able to buy a hydrogen car later this year. Ronn Motors has begun accepting orders for its Scorpion sports car, which, according to its manufacturer, will be able produce hydrogen on-demand from an on-board water tank.
If the Tesla Roadster and the Fisker Karma are too generic for you, there may be another choice this fall: Texas startup Ronn Motors unveiled its Scorpion yesterday.
The sports car does not follow the current hybrid/electric trend, but will use hydrogen as a fuel source. According to its manufacturer, the Scorpion is powered by a gasoline/hydrogen fuel blend, with 30-40% of the mix consisting of hydrogen. What makes this car especially interesting is the fact that you don’t need to fin hydrogen on the side of the road, water is enough.
Ronn Motors said that the Scorpion can produce hydrogen on demand by fracturing water molecules drawn from a small on board water tank. As a result, the car will not need a high pressure, on board hydrogen storage tank. The manufacturer promises that the car will hit about 40 mpg.
The engine used in the Scorpion is based on the unit used by Acura in its 2008 Acura TL-S sedan, rated at 289 hp in the Scorpion. Ronn Motors will offer a twin-turbo option of the powerplant offering about 450 hp. The 2100-pound car is expected toa ccelerate from 0-60 mph in 3.2 - 3.5 seconds while the quarter mile test is promised to come in in the mid 10s at 130 mph. The car will be initially available with a 6-speed manual, with a 6-speed automatic following in 2009, the company said.
Since it is described as an exotic sports car, yes it has a limited production run (no numbers mentioned yet) and it comes with a hefty price tag: $150,000.
Ping!............
seen this one for a while. found it on the internet a couple of years ago.
Any ideas how?...............
they are taking orders....
I used to work with one of the cofounders of this company, when I was at Dell. He is a real car-guy.
Sweet,
Leave it to the free market to fix problems. Keep the government out and you get beauties like this.
my son has a model sports car that has a water tank converting it to hydrogen. I think he bought it at sharper image? not sure how it works other than separation of hydrogen from oxygen and releasing the O into the air?
well, the govt will figure out how to heavily tax our water supply so they don’t lose out on that fuel tax..
Platinum electrodes and DC current.
I wonder what will happen to the oxygen fraction?
I hope his hydrogen cars are better than his computers..........
If the hydrogen + gasoline mixture burns better and provides more usable energy than the amount you’re losing by the electrolysis of water to get the hydrogen, then you are coming out ahead. If it doesn’t, then you are spending a lot of money and extra fuel to be able to tack a “hydrogen powered” label on the car.
“they are taking orders....”
They are taking money. Whether or not the car actually materializes in your driveway as promised is another matter.
It can be funneled into the air intake or vented to the air..................I suppose.......
Those were from the ‘Mission Impossible’ special order batch that incorrectly was shipped to Dell-Japan.
Since oxygen is another “clean fuel” additive, I would have expected something in the release regarding its use. Many high-performance engines use “oxygenated” fuel to increase the available energy.
I’m not quite certain how it would affect the mileage, tho.
Pump it in the motor as well, more O means more power.
So is water vapor!.................worse than CO2!...........
“Too much” Oxygen can raise NOx emissions............
This is the company that makes the hydrogen generator for them.
http://www.hydrorunner.com/products.html
It’s in the article. I think it’s the typical electric split on the water molecules...
I’m guessing they have a catalyst that speeds up the process of electrolysis and reduces the energy consumption. Just a guess.
Wow a couple of threads ago I read that Texans are a bunch of knuckle draggers
nice...but.....anything available in an SUV line?
Big oil, needs to become big energy and increase their R&D budgets to help pave the way for cost effectiveness in the area of hydrogen tech.
Think about it for a moment, water h2o, hydrogen and oxygen.
Once the hydrogen is extracted your left with oxygen. Clean burning fuel, and the world has plenty of water.
So why have we been dragging our feet on this technology? People haven’t figured out a way to profit from it as they do from oil.
It's all about the bottom line folks. Hydrogen technology has been around for years.
http://www.hydrorunner.com/products.html
Please note the banner at the bottom of their page with the quote from Henry David...WHO?
That swirling sound is their credibility.
LoL, good catch.. I guess they forgot to do a little spellchecking.. :->
So, now they are fast clean knuckle draggers............
I would think that the oxygen would just be vented. When you burn the hydrogen, it turns back to water anyway, so you end up where you started.
On the other hand, you’d think that the oxygen byproduct would be useful for something. Maybe you could feed it back into the combustion chamber and eliminate some of the weight of the engine which is devoted to the air intake.
Thinking about this, I wonder what the usefulness of this process is. Separate the hydrogen from the oxygen and then recombine it... Doesn’t seem like that would produce additional net energy. Maybe it’s just a marketing gimmick to make junk science liberals think that they are buying something new and useful when they plop down their $150,000.
Well it is built low and easy to jump into:’)
Again we have the silly claim of unused power from the alternator... Crackpots...
“Hydrorunner’s hydrogen on demand retro-fit system is designed for any ICE internal combustion or Diesel Engine. We create Hydrogen(H2 Gas) through the process known as electrolysis or “cracking water” as it also known with no catalyst. This is important to note because many catalysts that are used can cause internal breakdown overtime of key engine components. The electrical current is generated from the OEM’s unused power in the alternator. Note: no special alternator is necessary to create HH gas. The HH gas is then pulled in by the throttle plate vacuum into the intake manifold via the HYFSL (Hydrogen Fuel Supply Line). The HH gas assists the combustion process with the onboard fuel in a more efficient burn. This is achieved with the assistance of the secondary computer which controls the flow of the Hydrogen that has been specifically preprogrammed for that make and model.
The benefits to the introduction of Hydrogen gas in a controlled way cause less viscosity breakdown, which in turn means extended engine life. Another added benefit is less frequent oil changes. See test data for Amsoil. There is also a significant increase of 10% in horsepower and 8% increase in torque as tested on the Forerunner. See test results A. We also are seeing a dramatic reduction of harmful greenhouse gases up to 90%.
Safety and Durability was the major priority in designing the G3 Hydrorunner system. We have designed a Multi-level safety system (MLSS) that requires no on board storage of Hydrogen gas. It also has safety features such as a manual override inside the cabin that if for whatever reason the driver may choose to shut off the system with a press of a button without shutting off the original fuel supply. If there is too much pressure that has built up in the HFYSL line, the system will automatically shut off. The system also has a built in inertia/tip sensor that can be pre set for any vehicle. If the G3 system happens to get too much hea,t it will automatically shut off. All of the components that went into the design of the system are complied in such a way that makes it easy to maintain, interchange and service. We use non-corrosive materials with minimal moving parts so that a recommended service check to tap off the water tank and flush out the generator would be all the service that is required. We also offer a 24/7 tech support line in case any issues arise.
All of the Hydrorunner equipment and parts are warranty for 2 years and unlimited miles.”
...according to its manufacturer, will be able produce hydrogen on-demand from an on-board water tank.
Any ideas how?...............
From the gasoline powered engine. Any power derived from the hydrogen being burned along with the gasoline will be more than offset by the energy required to split it from the water. Further, hydrogen introduced together with the fuel/air mixture will cause power loss because hydrogen gas is a low energy density medium.
How hard is it to get 40mpg out of a 2100lb car? It would get better economy without the hydrogen apparatus.
Gasoline contains 60% more hydrogen than liquid hydrogen.
It’s just nonsense.
I e-mailed them about the QUOTE and the MISSPELLING ...........Both were wrong..........
Yes.
I could quote you chapter and verse from our Title V permit...sigh.
People are writing these "Burn Water" sites so fast they do not have time.
I thought 1973 to 1979 were bad for these things, but I was wrong. They seem to teach less Science these days, and with the Web, the proliferation is fast and cheap.
In the opinions of many debunkers, they are all scams or bullshit. A quick search shows many debunking sites, but they are drowned out by sheer numbers, including You-Tube spams, EBay ads, etc.etc.
...Don't laugh, In the Ohio State legislature debate is going on with regards to exactly what the state can claim is its water. Meaning ponds streams etc., even though those bodies might be on private property.
Some FR posters have said in Denver Co. it is illegal to collect rain water off of your own roof. I don't know how true that is, but anymore I don't doubt anything when it comes our government.
Not a selling point. No one is seriously planning a high pressure hydrogen tank.
Sorta like Michell obama
My brother, who is an auto tech, works with a guy who fitted a hydrogen generator on his Jeep Cherokee and the guy now gets 36 MPG. The key parameter in gettting it work as advertised is knowing how to adjust your onboard computer, according to my bro.
Once the hydrogen is extracted your left with oxygen. Clean burning fuel, and the world has plenty of water.
So why have we been dragging our feet on this technology? People haven’t figured out a way to profit from it as they do from oil.
It's all about the bottom line folks. Hydrogen technology has been around for years.
People haven't "figured out" how to make hydrogen profitible, because it takes more energy to make from water than you get from the using it a Hydrogen fuel cell, which is way more efficient that burning it.
Cars like this need a extra fuel tank to store the snake oil in.
Hydrogen "can" come from water, but most commerical hydrogen doesn't. Most comes from Fossil fuels.
Gee, I wonder why if large scale hydrogen mfgs can't efficiently make hydrogen from water, how could I do it with my cars alternator? Oh, I can't?
But, that's not what some fly by night web site is telling me....
Unless, this thing makes gasoline for the average user to sell as well as provide 100% fuel needed, the typical driver isn't going pay for the unit is less than a year.
Driving 15,000 miles per year at 20 mpg and $4 gasoline, the entire year gasoline bill is $3,000.
From a reactant/product standpoint, you MUST put all of the dissociated O atoms back into the intake so that the remaining oxygen can still combust with the gasoline. Otherwise, you make the mixture too fuel-rich, with poor combustion (less power and efficiency) as a result.
The whole idea is bogus anyway. You can not get more energy out of combining H2 and O2 than you put into splitting the H2O, no matter how hard you wish you could.
This thread needs the “Aw no, not this $#it again” dude.
Shhh. People who can do Math could RUIN EVERYTHING.
Heck, release that O2 into the cabin - will keep you alert!
Gasoline (or diesel fuel) contains a MUCH greater amount of hydrogen than water, and the hydrogen can be extracted exothermically, which means that after the reformer is warmed up it does not require energy to function. If hydrogen works that well as an additive, the best source would be a catalytic reformer for part of the gasoline.
The reason this nonsense keeps coming back is that it “uses” WATER, which is such a magical illusion. Unfortunately, water is just fully oxidized hydrogen.
Hydrogenated Oxygen..............
There's the scam. A high-priced, high-tech scam. It takes more energy to decompose water to hydrogen and oxygen than you get back burning the hydrogen. And what do you suppose is supplying the energy for electrolysis in the first place? The gasoline! Duh!
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