Posted on 07/02/2008 6:53:00 PM PDT by RedRover
Marine Corps Sergeants Jermaine Nelson and Ryan Weemer will celebrate Independence Day in a Camp Pendleton brig instead of the San Bernardino County Jail, Defend Our Marines has learned.
Sergeants Jermaine Nelson and Ryan Weemer, both veterans of the famous "Hell House" fight at Fallujah, Iraq, are currently being held in the San Bernardino County federal lockup for contempt of court charges. They were locked up after refusing to talk to a Grand Jury seated in Riverside, California.
A spokesman at Camp Pendleton is still trying to determine whether they have already been transferred to the Camp Pendleton brig at the time of this report.
US District Judge Steven Larsen sent them to jail for refusing to tell the Grand Jury what it wants to know about the alleged executions of four enemy combatants captured at Fallujah on November 9, 2004. Weemer was jailed June 12 and Nelson has been jailed twice: once for a week in May and a second time last week.
Larsen yielded to arguments for their return to military custody by Nelson's civilian defense attorney Joseph Low Tuesday afternoon. Low told the court the Marines were facing double jeopardy because their confinement in the civilian jail left them vulnerable to charges of unlawful absence by military authorities.
Defense attorneys have said that the pay of both Marines was halted because their mandated confinement constituted unauthorized absence, a criminal offense in the Marine Corps. So far neither Marine has been charged for being absent despite their pay being stopped.
Court watchers told Defend Our Marines that in open court Tuesday gave prosecutors tips on how to more properly charge the two Marines so the government could still incite their testimony without gaining their cooperation.
One knowledgeable person told Defend Our Marines that Judge Larsen told prosecutors it would be smarter to charge Nelson and Weemer with conspiracy to kill the prisoners than to grant them immunity and force them to testify. Charging the two would enable the prosecution to introduce their written statements to the Grand Jury without any cooperation.
Both men have given lengthy statements to government investigators.
Larsen has also warned Nazario's defense attorney Kevin B. McDermott against revealing any of the Grand Jury testimony obtained last October and during April and May of this year.
Federal rules allow for secrecy in Grand Jury proceedings, where only the prosecution is allowed to makes its case. One defense lawyer called it the closest thing this country has to a "Star Chamber," and said that is why it is said the government can indict a ham sandwich there.
The Naval Criminal Investigative Service claims Nelson, Weemer, and former Sergeant Jose L. Nazario executed four unknown, unclaimed, and unfound enemy combatants captured in the opening hours of the no-quarter, month-long battle.
Marines who were there say there was no way to either secure or transport prisoners to rear areas. Things got so bad during the fight the 3/1 battalion transportation officer was relieved of duty for failing to provide adequate support to frontline Marines.
Official after action reports of the fighting show that every company of the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marines was heavily engaged at the time of the alleged executions. Insurgents had interdicted the battalion's supply lines by back-filling previously searched buildings to ambush passing Marines. The famous "Hell House" fight four days later is the classic example of the situation the Marines were facing.
During the savage battle, the Marines Corps routinely dropped bombs, fired artillery, mortars and missiles, including the Marine Corps' entire complement of about 1,000 SMAW – NE shoulder fired thermobaric rockets to incinerate the entrenched enemy. Insurgent deaths were estimated each day by the growing length of the burial trench the enemy used to dispose of its dead.
Nazario, decorated for heroism at Fallujah, was charged in civilian court because he no longer has any obligation to the Marine Corps. Government prosecutors then granted Weemer and Nelson unsolicited and unwelcome testimonial immunity to testify against their former squad leader, but they refused, their attorneys have said.
Although the Marine Corps had already stopped both Marines' pay and allowances for unauthorized absence, a serious criminal charge in the military, it is still unclear whether it will now punish the Marines in order to justify stopping their pay, one defense attorney said.
Nelson and Weemer are charged by the Marine Corps with unpremeditated murder and dereliction of duty for allegedly shooting two of the prisoners while Nazario killed the other two.
There's more about the Fallujah case HERE or search under keyword Fallujah on Free Republic.
I’m sorry, but even if the government’s case has the facts exactly right, this is horsesh#t.
Bringing criminal charges against those who were engaged in house-to-house close combat, for any reason other than an atrocity against civilians, is asinine.
Another crap case. Safer in the Marine brig than whatever gangbanger heaven they were in, I guess.
Military folks, help me out: how does a civilian court get involved with the actions on a battlefield? I’m not understanding.
We all know that the government only hires the unemployables, so give the morons a cubicle to hibernate in until retirement, but keep them from screwing around with the lives of real men who risk their lives for our country and our freedom...give the Marines liberty and give the worthless scum who are screwing with the lives of those brave Marines the BIG FINGER!
This case is sickening. Untold numbers of insurgents were killed in this battle and they're going after Marines for killing four insurgents they don't have bodies for. PC officers have to drummed out of the service!
Pingoli? Looks like the driver already ate the pingoli. :)
Nazario's two former squadmates had made statements to NCIS and were subpeoned to testify against Nazarion in civilian court. They refused and were jailed--in the county lockup.
Cruelly, in my opinion, the Corps considered the two active Marines AWOL and stopped their pay and benefits.
This all is uncharted waters legally. The MEJA only become law in 2000 and has only been used to charge one other former serviceman, as far as I know.
President Bush... this is just morally wrong and repugnant. If these two are to be tried for “crimes” during battle, it must be in a Military Court under the Military Code of Justice.
Please fix it now, please.
Yes, the pingoli sometimes has the effect. Paulie...You won’t see him no more.
Unfortunately, Congress pass the MEJA (see above) in 2000. It was a Repub Congress then and a Rat Congress won’t change it now.
A paragraph in the story above should have read:
Court watchers told Defend Our Marines that in open court Tuesday Larsen gave prosecutors tips on how to more properly charge the two Marines so the government could still incite their testimony without gaining their cooperation.
Nat gives another clear, concise and truthful report. Look here msm! This is how it’s done!
Ping to not forget our Hamdania boys, too.
This is bleeping awful, that's what it is! For crying out loud, do we want our soldiers defending us (and themselves!) or do we want them texting Miss Manners?
I don't know, but something sounds fishy with it becoming law in 2000. Of course, it did have to pass a Republican Congress. I'll take a look at that.
Again, thanks.
I had always thought he said cannoli... Now I am gonna have to watch that whole movie again, just to listen to that one line!
Wouldn't those actions be unethical??? Telling the prosecutor how to run there case??? This is crazy!!!
Under the circumstances why is not entirely permissible to kill detained enemy combatants? If you can’t guard them and you can’t move them then it stands to reason you have to shoot them.
There is a good book, a novel, on the subject called Easter Sunday, 1941, that through a series of vignettes covers a number of incidents of capture and execution. This is the best book I ever read on what is a pretty obscure point.
A lot of the latest WWII bios include stories of killing prisoners by American soldiers. Easy Company, 506th PIR’s, Bill Guarnere admits to shooting 2 German POW’s in the head, and not with regret. Steven Ambrose documented several incidents including an example where an Airborne unit withdrawing at night in the snow shot a large group of prisoners because they couldn’t risk trying to move them at night under those circumstances.
Wasn’t there a controversy a few years ago over the Israeli’s killing more than 100 prisoners at Mitla pass in 56 who couldn’t be guarded by an Airborne unit?
I think this is more common than is understood by most Americans. I’m amazed that it would even be an issue. Nebraskas one-legged former Senator Bob Kerrey and his team admittedly slaughtered a Viet Cong family including a couple little girls with knives to prevent their alerting the village.
Later, they reportedly shot every body else in the village including babies. Although there was an investigation, and I believe it was true, it ended after all except the accuser (confessor) denied it.
Thats why I’m glad I never served anywhere near the pointy end. In my youth it was inconceivable that any American would ever be asked to do something like that. I think its sometimes horrifying but necessary.
During the 1st Gulf War a British SAS unit was compromised by a child and hunted down and most killed or captured because they could’t bring themselves to kill a little girl.
It happened more recently to a SEAL team in Afghanistan who were discovered by goat herders. They didn’t kill them and as a result they were reported and hunted down. Three of the 4 man team were killed. Would they have been prosecuted for having killed the herders? This is freaking crazy.
I certainly don’t think I’m tough enough to do it. And if I was able to override my feelings on the subject, I think I would have a hard time living with it. I can’t bring myself to criticize the men who have had to face this.
Hiya, Panther. Ole Red has a way with words, doesn’t he? LOL!
Yes he does... I love the new ping graphics!
>> One knowledgeable person told Defend Our Marines that Judge Larsen told prosecutors it would be smarter to charge Nelson and Weemer with ...
The ‘knowledgeable person’ made a poignant assertion. I wonder what the defense has to say.
That apple still isn’t turning into an orange.....
Crap, why not drag back all the marines from WWII and charge them? They hardly had a handful of prisoners after 4 years of war!
I wouldn't be surprised to see Gary Myers - along with every defense attorney to find themselves and their clients in Judge Larsen's court - to demand that the judge recuse himself due to lacking inclination and possibly ability to be impartial.
I wonder what his last job was, paddle weilding vice principal at a junior high school, maybe?
The more I read about all these cases being brought against our Soldiers and Marines just makes me sick.
Like I just responded to Red. The more I read about all these cases being brought against our Soldiers and Marines just makes me sick.
>> to demand that the judge recuse himself due to lacking inclination and possibly ability to be impartial.
The issue will likely be discarded as hearsay. Nonetheless, it wouldn’t surprise me if the report proves to be accurate.
Yeah; I know, picky.
I thought it was a Pizza Cannoli .. .. I'd try a couple!
Well said; thank you for the realistic perspective.
Update!
Black Five had the story first: sergeants Weemer and Nelson were released from federal custody at about 3:30 pm Pacific on Thursday and will not be confined to the Pendleton brig for the weekend.
In an e-mail to us, attorney Kevin McDermott confirmed the news, "They were set free today. No strings attached."
Black Five says: "This is good news! The Marines won't spend the Holiday locked up with "model citizens". THANK YOU TO EVERYONE THAT HAS HELPED!"
Congratulations to sergeants Weemer and Nelson, and our thanks to Black Five for their coverage and activism on this story.
The release of sergeants Weemer and Nelson bring a little extra savor to my own Independence Day Weekend and I wanted to share it with you all.
Happy Fourth!
BTW, the story on Black Five at the link, Judicial Waterboarding of Our Marines is excellent and well worth a read.
That’s great news, Red, thanks for letting us know.
Y’all have a great Independence Day and glad to see ya still got the pinger goin’. ;-)
Excellent! Maybe somebody is finally yanking his head out of his own behind.
Awesome news, Red! Happy Independence Day!!!
Thank you for the great news.
AMERICA
Let me tell you a story. High atop the United States Capitol dome in
Washington stands the statue of the stately Freedom Lady. It is almost 20
feet high. Her face is framed by a crest of stars, and she holds a shield
of stars and stripes in her left hand.
The sculptured Freedom Lady was brought from Rome during a fierce storm.
The captain and the crew were very scared because the waves were three
times as high as the boat. The captain ordered that all cargo, even food,
be thrown overboard. The crew came up to the captain and said, “We need to
throw out the statue of the Freedom Lady for this is the heaviest thing on
the boat.” The captain paced back and forth, and he shouted to the winds,
“No. Never, because if we give up freedom, we give up everything.”
The captain and the crew sat on that deck and they prayed. They saw beyond
appearances and they realized that they had a mission. They had a symbol
of liberty and freedom to deliver to America. They said, later, that they
would have probably never made it through those waves if it were not for
the statue of the Freedom Lady - the idea of going beyond the norm, of
working the sails, of working long beyond what a man could work.
But they got through the storm. And the statue is there, today, on the top
of the capitol dome.
Whenever you are facing anything in life, there has to be a vision beyond
where you are at that time. That is the way you get through.
The Star Spangled Banner talks about vision.
Oh, say can you see
By the dawn’s early light
What so proudly we hailed
At the twilight’s last gleaming.
Whose broad stripes and bright stars
Through the perilous night
O’er the ramparts we watched
Were so gallantly beaming.
And the rocket’s red glare
The bombs bursting in air
Gave proof through the night
That our flag was still there.
The Star Spangled Banner is a thrilling song. It speaks of vision, a very
special vision of seeing something afar that we value, honor, and that can
be ours. It speaks to us of a high reality that still flies above turmoil
and attack. It says that it is possible to go on, to go up, and to become
what we can be: free, brave, indivisible in God.
Francis Scott Key was on a boat in the Baltimore Harbor and he was looking
out at Fort McHenry. It was very, very dark when he wrote those words. The
flag was the sign that the American forces were holding out.
Sometimes we go through dark times. It may be a physical threat in our
bodies; it may be a financial threat in our lives; or it may be a
relationship threat. Whatever it is, we have to see beyond the moment.
That is what makes an American great.
Sometimes our eyes become so accustomed to the dark that we don’t believe
in the existence of light anymore. But Jesus Christ said, “We are
surrounded by the light of God at all times,” but we have to perceive it.
The American Heritage Dictionary says perceive means to seize wholly.
Isn’t that what we did with our American dreams? We perceived something
more than the world had at the moment. Faith is the perceiving power of
the mind. And our thoughts create our world. What point of view do we
perceive from? Christian principles turn the saying “seeing is believing”
around to “believing is seeing.” Jesus Christ says to believe in God for
miracles.
Happy Fourth, jaz! Gonna set the pinger to flipping burgers in a bit (mighty useful little gizmo).
Must have been that thunderous THWOCK sound I heard last night.
Thanks, Dubya. How appropriate that is on this Independence Day.
Happy Fourth of July to all you willing Patriots.
Guess it's a good job I'm not the Marine Commandant, or both the Judge and Prosecutor would have had a battalion of Marines in full gear recovering their men from illegal captivity. This action by the federal court and prosecutor is unlawful with respect to active duty military personnel, and a demand should be made by DoD that any action of this type in future be avoided.
Hey Red, didn't Chuck Berry play your song?
When I was a little biddy boy My grandma bought me a cute little toy Two Silver bells on a string She told me it was my Ping-a-ling-a-ling
My Ping-A-Ling My Ping-A-Ling won't you play with My Ping-A-Ling
My Ping-A-Ling My Ping-A-Ling won't you play with My Ping-A-Ling
When I was little boy In Grammar school Always went by the very best rule But Evertime the bell would ring You'd catch me playing with my Ping-a-ling
Once while climbing the garden wall, Slipped and fell had a very bad fall I fell so hard I heard birds sing, But I held on to My Ping-a-ling
Once while swimming cross turtle creek Man them snappers right at my feet Sure was hard swimming cross that thing with both hands holding my Pingaling
Now this here song it ain't so bad Prettiest little song that you ever had And those of you who will not sing must be playing with your on Ping-a-ling
Party on people!
A federal judge Thursday ordered two Marines released from jail despite their refusal to testify before a grand jury probing the alleged killing of four Iraqi prisoners by Marines during the battle for Fallouja in late 2004.
U.S. District Judge Stephen Larson said that Sgt. Jermaine Nelson and Sgt. Ryan Weemer are still in contempt of court, but that keeping them behind bars was futile. Their lawyers had argued that they would never testify before the grand jury, which in particular is looking at the actions of former Sgt. Jose Nazario.
Nelson and Weemer face charges in military court relating to the alleged killing of prisoners. Both had expressed concern that their testimony could be used by military prosecutors. Nelson also refused to testify because Nazario saved his life in Iraq.
Nazario faces manslaughter charges in federal court. He was no longer on active duty when the Fallouja investigation began. By law, the U.S. attorney has authority to charge ex-military personnel for alleged crimes committed during their service.
Weemer had been in the San Bernardino jail since June 12, Nelson since June 24. Nelson had earlier spent eight days in jail before being released by a judge in Los Angeles.
Joseph Low, Nelson's attorney, said Larson should be praised for taking into account "the service that these Marines have given to their country."
The jailing of the two had infuriated some active-duty and retired Marines.
Hahahahahahahaha!!! Ping on, bighead!
The feds brought a couple of US Attorneys and a handful of agents to a firefight. Never a match for a reinforced Marine squad, ever!
Great updates, Red.
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