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Texas 'Self Defense' Shooting - Was It Worth Two Lives?
Blackvoices.com ^ | 2 July, 2008 | Madison J. Gray

Posted on 07/03/2008 5:15:19 AM PDT by marktwain

Not even a week after the Supreme Court decided that gun bans are unconstitutional, a man accused of shooting to death two burglars who were robbing his neighbor's home has been set free despite the viciousness of his act.

If you'll remember the story, Joe Horn, a 61-year-old Pasadena, Tex., resident spotted two burglars breaking into his neighbor's home in Nov. 2007. He dialed 911, but despite being warned to stay in his home, he declared that he has a right to use deadly force to defend his neighbor's property and that he was going to confront the robbers.

He does just that and then shoots them in their backs, killing them. A huge controversy ensued over whether he should stand trial in the deaths of do RiascosDiego Ortiz, 30, and Hernan Torres, 38, both Columbian immigrants.

Yesterday, a grand jury cleared him of all wrongdoing. Score another one for the gun nuts.

On Tuesday, family and activists called the killing "premeditated murder." ...

I'm not defending the two men who robbed the neighbor's home of about $2,000 in jewelry and cash. But was this worth their lives? These men were not armed, and they posed no threat to Horn, although he claims that they came into his yard.

But if you hear the 911 tapes, Horn was warned to stay in his home and let the police handle the issue. He ignored the dispatcher's orders and if you listen to the tapes you'll see that he had every intention of killing those men.

Even though Horn has expressed regret over the incident, there are supporters who swear Horn should have sawed the men's heads off and impaled them on a lamppost at the edge of his driveway. These are the people who I lose sleep over.

These are the people who love guns far more than they love anything else and are waiting for their chance to kill someone, and far too often they are looking for a nonwhite in order to get their chance. For example, the 1992 killing of Yoshihiro Hattori, a 16-year-old Japanese exchange student in Baton Rouge, La., who simply rang the wrong doorbell when looking for a Halloween party. The homeowner, Rodney Peairs, opened fire on Hattori, mortally wounding him. Peairs was later acquitted under a Louisiana law, similar to one in Texas that allows people to shoot burglars if they feel threatened.

Here's my question: If people like Horn and Peairs -- who are white -- can shoot people they feel threatened by, why is it that John White, a Long Island, N.Y., man -- who is black -- gets a jail term for defending his home when he thought a mob was coming to harm his son, which also resulted in a death.

None of the losses of life are right. The deaths are senseless, and could have been avoided if cooler heads had prevailed. But in Horn's case, he had no intention of calming down. He took the law into his own hands and now, with a Supreme Court gun decision having just passed, every firearm freak in the country will feel emboldened.

Well, here's what I have to say to them: a person who would shoot someone because they feel a gun empowers them is a sociopath with a murderous mentality. It has nothing to do with self defense, it is the mark of a weak person who would feel castrated without having a gun somewhere in their vicinity.

Point blank: If you actually love your gun, you're a punk. It takes a man to preserve life. It takes a weakling to snuff it out.

Horn, by his own admission, is an eternal victim of his weak moment.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; News/Current Events; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: banglist; barfalert; horn; shooting; texas
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Dispite the anti-gun, anti-property, and anti-white remarks in the article, many of the comments at the end make the point that people are sick of being victimized by criminals, and that the laws of New York and Texas are quite different.
1 posted on 07/03/2008 5:15:19 AM PDT by marktwain
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To: marktwain

The criminals are responsible for their own deaths.


2 posted on 07/03/2008 5:18:13 AM PDT by agere_contra
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To: marktwain

in a word YES it was, and just maybe criminals will think twice about their chosen profession.


3 posted on 07/03/2008 5:19:29 AM PDT by eyeamok
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To: marktwain
“None of the losses of life are right”

Pertinent advice: DON'T DO THE CRIME!

4 posted on 07/03/2008 5:19:56 AM PDT by wolfcreek (I see miles and miles of Texas....let's keep it that way.)
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To: marktwain
If people like Horn and Peairs -- who are white -- can shoot people they feel threatened by, why is it that John White, a Long Island, N.Y., man -- who is black -- gets a jail term for defending his home when he thought a mob was coming to harm his son,

Let's throw in a racism charge and ignore the fact that the NY law is very different from the TX law.

5 posted on 07/03/2008 5:21:19 AM PDT by Izzy Dunne (Hello, I'm a TAGLINE virus. Please help me spread by copying me into YOUR tag line.)
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To: marktwain
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing -- New York is NOT Texas, or Louisiana.

That being said, I wouldn't shoot someone running away.

6 posted on 07/03/2008 5:21:30 AM PDT by Tuscaloosa Goldfinch (My new favorite quote "You can't organize clutter.")
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To: marktwain
I'm not defending the two men who robbed the neighbor's home of about $2,000 in jewelry and cash. But was this worth their lives?

That's the question the two criminals should have been asking themselves. They alone bear the responsibility for the loss of their lives. I'm sure Mr. Horn's remorse is real, and I think any compassionate human being would feel similarly to him. But the reality is that two criminals are gone and will never again engage in criminal activity, and the world is better off for it.

7 posted on 07/03/2008 5:21:33 AM PDT by The_Victor (If all I want is a warm feeling, I should just wet my pants.)
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To: marktwain
Texas 'Self Defense' Shooting - Was It Worth Two Lives?

Yes.

8 posted on 07/03/2008 5:21:34 AM PDT by an amused spectator (corruptissima republica, plurimae leges)
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To: marktwain
Was It Worth Two Lives?

The two thieves certainly should have asked themselves this question. And I guess they thought it was worth it to risk their lives. Dumb decision.
9 posted on 07/03/2008 5:21:37 AM PDT by ZX12R
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To: marktwain

The author is OK with the 20,000 Americans murdered every year, but 2 criminal deaths is more then he can stand.


10 posted on 07/03/2008 5:21:38 AM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: marktwain
"I'm not defending the two men who robbed the neighbor's home of about $2,000 in jewelry and cash. But was this worth their lives?"

Yes....you can't 'do the time', or in this case accept the consequences for your actions, don't do the crime.

Now defending your property is RACIST??? LIEberals will only get a clue after they've been victimized, but even then I have my doubts.

11 posted on 07/03/2008 5:21:53 AM PDT by RasterMaster (Rudy McRomneyson = KENNEDY wing of the Republican Party)
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To: marktwain

“These are the people who love guns far more than they love anything else and are waiting for their chance to kill someone, and far too often they are looking for a nonwhite in order to get their chance.”

Sounds like the definition of young black male.

Whites dont have to go looking for a non white to shoot, usually the non white shows up on his own and puts himself in that position. And you dont have to go back to 1992 to find an example of a black male shooting a white person.


12 posted on 07/03/2008 5:23:05 AM PDT by Bulldawg Fan (Victory is the last thing Murtha and his fellow Defeatists want.)
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To: marktwain
I support the Supreme Court decision.
I support Joe Horn's actions.

But I do not see these as linked. If the Constitution allows me to own a gun, that says nothing about me being able to shoot people. Two different things. This Liberal writer is trying to equate gun ownership with killing people. That's BS.

13 posted on 07/03/2008 5:23:20 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy (Et si omnes ego non)
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To: marktwain
Here's my question: If people like Horn and Peairs -- who are white -- can shoot people they feel threatened by, why is it that John White, a Long Island, N.Y., man -- who is black -- gets a jail term for defending his home when he thought a mob was coming to harm his son, which also resulted in a death.

Here's the author's answer, plain and simple: Had John White been white, he would have been given the same punishment. It's the idiotic legislation/legislators in the area, not skin color that is the determining factor in his case.

14 posted on 07/03/2008 5:23:53 AM PDT by edpc (Tagline Currently Under Construction)
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To: marktwain
My stuff is not worth my life. But my stuff is certainly worth the life of any sleazebag that wants to take it.

/johnny

15 posted on 07/03/2008 5:24:28 AM PDT by JRandomFreeper (Bless us all, each, and every one.)
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To: marktwain

Had the thieves stumbled in when the homeowner was home, killed the homeowner, and took the 2000 in jewelry we wouldn’t hear a peep from these liberals.


16 posted on 07/03/2008 5:24:42 AM PDT by commonguymd (Freedom and individual liberty is for everyone, including the odd and weird people like you.)
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To: marktwain

Comparing this to the tragic death of Hattori is sick.


17 posted on 07/03/2008 5:25:06 AM PDT by antiRepublicrat
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To: marktwain
I'm not defending the two men who robbed the neighbor's home of about $2,000 in jewelry and cash. But was this worth their lives?

Yes.

18 posted on 07/03/2008 5:25:47 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a Conservative. But I can vote for John McCain. If I have to. I guess.)
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To: marktwain

This dim twit needs to do some introspection on the black community and comment on what happened to Channon Christian and Christopher Newsom.


19 posted on 07/03/2008 5:26:24 AM PDT by rjsimmon
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To: marktwain
No mention if these two dirt nappers were here LEGALLY. Guess that question wouldn't be politically correct.

I have one of these in each ground floor window here.

If my 100# American Bulldog doesn't get 'em, Mr. Ruger will!

Feel free to copy and print these for YOUR "castle." Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket

20 posted on 07/03/2008 5:27:04 AM PDT by Dick Bachert
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To: marktwain
...if you listen to the tapes you'll see that he had every intention of killing those men.

If you read this person's opinion on Joe Horn, you'll see that it has every intention of selling us all out to socialist mass-murderers like Uncle Joe Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot.

21 posted on 07/03/2008 5:27:37 AM PDT by an amused spectator (corruptissima republica, plurimae leges)
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To: marktwain
I'm not defending the two men who robbed the neighbor's home of about $2,000 in jewelry and cash. But was this worth their lives?

That's something you would have had to ask the two burglers, isn't it?

22 posted on 07/03/2008 5:27:58 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Izzy Dunne
I remember that case and nobody on FR thought that White should have gone to jail. Most us though he deserved some major “Attaboys!”
Sending him to jail for defending his home and his children was a travesty typical of the liberal gun control laws of New York City.
23 posted on 07/03/2008 5:28:31 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a Conservative. But I can vote for John McCain. If I have to. I guess.)
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To: marktwain
Another liberal idiot trying to justify crime! If you're stupid enough to be doing something illegal, be warned about it on the spot and not stop what your doing in Texas, you are a complete idiot and not only deserve what you get, but me made an example of!

Thank heavens some people in this country are anti-crime!

24 posted on 07/03/2008 5:28:33 AM PDT by sirchtruth (Vote Conservative Repuplican!!)
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To: marktwain
The article title asked the wrong question. Should a homeowner have the right to the safety of his life and property from people who would invade their property to kill, harm and steal the property.

Answer to that question is “YES”. In Texas the law is called the Castle Doctrine.

25 posted on 07/03/2008 5:29:33 AM PDT by Chief901 (Where in the Hell is the Country Going, and Why is it in a Handbasket)
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To: Bulldawg Fan
Whites dont have to go looking for a non white to shoot, usually the non white shows up on his own and puts himself in that position.

Spot on!

26 posted on 07/03/2008 5:29:46 AM PDT by Disturbin (Liberals: buying votes with your tax dollars)
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To: antiRepublicrat

“Comparing this to the tragic death of Hattori is sick.”

I think there was more to Hattori’s death than innocently ringing the wrong doorbell, mostly personal stupidity.


27 posted on 07/03/2008 5:30:32 AM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: marktwain

Burglary is not an economic plan. Get a job or start a business.


28 posted on 07/03/2008 5:30:47 AM PDT by yldstrk (My heros have always been cowboys--Reagan and Bush)
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To: commonguymd
Oh, yes we would... Liberals would STILL object to criminals being killed.
For example, you wouldn't believe some of the responses to the Israeli killing the Pali terrorist who was running over people and vehicles with the front-end loader... They think he used excessive force or “liquidated” him.
29 posted on 07/03/2008 5:32:50 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a Conservative. But I can vote for John McCain. If I have to. I guess.)
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To: eyeamok

The unknown and hidden costs of NOT having a castle doctrine are the lives of tens of thousands of crime victims.

Leftists LOVE hidden costs of their ideology. It lets them get away with feeling good about themselves, even superior, for having an “enlightened” viewpoint.


30 posted on 07/03/2008 5:33:45 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: marktwain

“Was it worth their lives?” Yup... freedom’s worth fighting for.


31 posted on 07/03/2008 5:33:47 AM PDT by Snow Eagle
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To: Little Ray

I should have been more clear though. I left off the assumption that the only murder was the homeowner and not the thieves. It happens all the time and we don’t get crap like this written. You know, stories where an elderly person gets beaten to death by a couple of home invaders looking for crack money.


32 posted on 07/03/2008 5:36:00 AM PDT by commonguymd (Freedom and individual liberty is for everyone, including the odd and weird people like you.)
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To: Little Ray

I really wish our society had BALLS like the Israelis do.

But... we’re soft. If the Israelis weren’t as matter of fact gutsy as they are, brooking no BS, they wouldn’t exist today.


33 posted on 07/03/2008 5:37:17 AM PDT by MrB (You can't reason people out of a position that they didn't use reason to get into in the first place)
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To: marktwain

I’ll be hoping that Madison Gray breaks into somebody’s house real soon.


34 posted on 07/03/2008 5:39:15 AM PDT by mkjessup (Jimmy Carter is the Skidmark in the panties of American history.)
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To: commonguymd

Yup. When predators murder innocents its no big deal to the Liberals and the press. When blacks murder whites BECAUSE they are white, it is no big deal to our Liberal masters.

Let someone actually shoot back though...


35 posted on 07/03/2008 5:41:15 AM PDT by Little Ray (I'm a Conservative. But I can vote for John McCain. If I have to. I guess.)
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To: marktwain
Crime has now become a very dangerous occupation...AS IT SHOULD BE!
36 posted on 07/03/2008 5:42:25 AM PDT by capt. norm (Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups.)
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To: marktwain
I'm not defending the two men who robbed the neighbor's home of about $2,000 in jewelry and cash. But was this worth their lives?

YES

Next Question ...

37 posted on 07/03/2008 5:46:07 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (A citizen using a weapon to shoot a criminal is the ultimate act of independence from government.)
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To: Little Ray

Recently there was a former marine that killed one of two scumbags in a fast food robbery. The other perp was wounded. He shot them when they were shoving him and others into the bathroom I believe. They were armed. The mother or grandmother was upset he wasn’t being charged with murder and demanded justice for her dead thug. Had they murdered the folks in the bathroom, she would have been complaining that he was a good boy and just made a bad decision. The parents in this country in certain sectors are breeding gangsters and thugs.


38 posted on 07/03/2008 5:46:20 AM PDT by commonguymd (Freedom and individual liberty is for everyone, including the odd and weird people like you.)
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To: marktwain

Are “black voices” supposed to be a lobby in defense of criminality? If the Democrats get elected this fall, will this site call for subsidies?


39 posted on 07/03/2008 5:46:33 AM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: marktwain
A huge controversy ensued over whether he should stand trial in the deaths of do RiascosDiego Ortiz, 30, and Hernan Torres, 38, both Columbian immigrants.

The weren't Columbian immigrants; they were ILLEGAL ALIENS from Columbia, and one of them had been previously deported and had come back into our country illegally again. They both had criminal records because apparently they weren't willing to do any of those jobs that Americans won't do -- opting instead to support themselves via crime.

40 posted on 07/03/2008 5:46:45 AM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: Izzy Dunne
If people like Horn and Peairs -- who are white -- can shoot people they feel threatened by, why is it that John White, a Long Island, N.Y., man -- who is black -- gets a jail term for defending his home when he thought a mob was coming to harm his son?

Liberals!

41 posted on 07/03/2008 5:47:36 AM PDT by gr8eman (Everybody is a rocket scientist...until launch day!)
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To: Tuscaloosa Goldfinch
That being said, I wouldn't shoot someone running away.

Unless I had just seen them run away after robbing someone I knew, carrying a bagful of loot.

42 posted on 07/03/2008 5:48:52 AM PDT by BlazingArizona
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To: marktwain
Here's my question: If people like Horn and Peairs -- who are white -- can shoot people they feel threatened by, why is it that John White, a Long Island, N.Y., man -- who is black -- gets a jail term for defending his home when he thought a mob was coming to harm his son, which also resulted in a death

I think it has more to do with the cultures of New York, where self-defense is not regarded as an unalienable right, vs Texas and Louisiana, where the castle doctrine is held pretty much sacred, than with the colors of the assailants and the shooters.

43 posted on 07/03/2008 5:49:52 AM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: marktwain
You enter a dwelling that you have no permission to be in,even if you plan to do nothing more than steal a bag of chips,and you put your life in grave danger.I see no problem with that.It kinda changes the odds,however,if you,the homeowner,forget you keys and try to break into you own house.
44 posted on 07/03/2008 5:50:44 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (The problem with the rat race is,even if you win you're still a rat.)
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To: marktwain

The author is asking the wrong question:

It should be “How bad do you want what you intend to steal, is it worth your life?”


45 posted on 07/03/2008 5:51:50 AM PDT by 5Madman2 (There is no such thing as an experienced suicide bomber)
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To: eyeamok

I’m voting YES. These are/were two low-life, criminals who had CHOSEN this predatory path. We don’t need more predators. The libs would maybe prefer having a meeting?


46 posted on 07/03/2008 5:52:56 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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To: marktwain

The article makes a case that “Blackvoices.com” should be renamed “Criminalvoices.com”.

Given that American blacks are suffering most from black on black crimes of violence, the author of the article under discussion is a disgusting apologist for black criminals.


47 posted on 07/03/2008 5:55:28 AM PDT by GladesGuru (In a society predicated upon freedom, it is essential to examine principles,)
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To: marktwain
I'm not defending the two men who robbed the neighbor's home of about $2,000 in jewelry and cash.

BullS#*+!! That is exactly what this idiot of a writer is doing.

48 posted on 07/03/2008 5:55:47 AM PDT by VRWCmember
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To: marktwain

I’m with the saw-their-heads-off-and-put-them-on-pikes crowd. Don’t go to sleep tonight, Madison Gray.


49 posted on 07/03/2008 5:56:09 AM PDT by A_perfect_lady
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To: Dick Bachert

Oooooh, I like it.


50 posted on 07/03/2008 5:56:11 AM PDT by bboop (Stealth Tutor)
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