Posted on 07/03/2008 9:03:50 AM PDT by Uncle Ralph
There has been a lot of talk about the need for change in this country. That is Senator Obama's mantra, of course. And all of the commentators say, "It is a change election." Well, I can understand why the call for change is so powerful considering the pitiful condition that our country is in.
We simply have the most prosperous, freest and strongest country in the history of the world. So we can understand why liberal politicians and their supporters see the need for great change.
On a more serious note, we have long recognized the role change plays in lives. Edmund Burke wrote extensively about it... He said that change was inevitable and when properly guided, change was a process of renewal. But it was his opinion that the man who loves change is disqualified from being a reformer because of his lust ... to be the agent of change.
Remind you of anybody you know?
So it is not change that concerns us —- it's change in the wrong direction. And what we may be changing from.
This country was founded on certain eternal truths -- the lessons of the Scriptures and the wisdom of the ages ... the recognition that there is such a thing as human nature ... a respect for tradition and -- most fundamentally -- the proposition that people are meant to be free.
From these principles a government was formed -- a government with its powers separated, checked and balanced, because the Founders knew that power tended to corrupt ... They incorporated into our Constitution a system of Federalism to ensure that there was not too much power concentrated in the central government -- a central government that was given certain delineated powers and no others...
(Excerpt) Read more at townhall.com ...
“the lessons of the Scriptures...”
Gee, I can’t seem to find that in my Constitution...
Now, FT didn’t say “the lessons of the scriptures” was in the Constitution, did he? Why are you twisting what he said?
Look deeper. When the pupil is ready, the teacher will appear.
If only, say, a year ago....
Is there audio for this?
Also - how I wish THIS GUY were our nominee.
Don’t we all? I wish he’d consider VP, but maybe it would be considered an Old Ticket.
It is not in the Constitution but read any of the 97 writings of Washington, the 60 something of Jefferson, or anyone else who had a part in writing this great document and you will see how they used “lessons of Scripture” to write it.
Me too...FT appeals to the South and he appeals to conservatives...
Well, hell, no wonder McCain won’t pick him. lol
Not saying there isn't, but I didn't stumble across any. It was live-streamed over TownHall.com (I missed it) so maybe somebody grabbed it.
He was one of my senators for 8 years, that was enough.
““the lessons of the Scriptures...”
Gee, I can’t seem to find that in my Constitution...”
Yeah...it’s not like they called upon their faiths, at least in part, when designing our new nation.
/s off
Now I understand why Obama is running in the General Election and Fred is not. There is only room for one Messiah.
Just another attempt to deny that our society (and its success) is based on JUDEO-CHRISTIAN BIBLICAL PRINCIPLES.
Don’t obfuscate what Fred said.
“[T]he lessons of the Scriptures and the wisdom of the ages”, relate to the Bible and the Constitution, respectively.
But... But...
If there’s a God, the implication is that I’ll be held accountable for my decisions and behaviors! I can’t handle that!
I want to do what I want to do when I want to do it! I’m a narcissist!
Thompson’s first line is great. McCain should say that in his acceptance speech at the convention but I won’t hold my breath.
“[T]he lessons of the Scriptures and the wisdom of the ages”
One thing that I’ve concluded from observation is that libs consider themselves wiser than anyone who ever lived and wiser than God Himself.
Observation: Things that have never worked, WILL work when the current generation tries them.
Observation: Biblical truths don’t apply anymore. We’ve “evolved”.
The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
Someone should’ve told George Washington that. He gave thanks to God for establishment of the U.S. While not an endorsement of Christianity specifically, given the predominant religion of the founding fathers, it’s not too much of a stretch to say that Judeo-Christian beliefs did indeed influence much of the beginning of our nation.
http://www.bartleby.com/124/pres13.html
“Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge.”
Someone DID tell George Washington that.
Quote is from the Treaty of Tripoli, negotiated under George Washington, affirmed by the Senate and signed by John Adams.
Article 11, I believe.
keep repeating the mantra - “America is not a Christian nation” all you want,
but the facts are, and the writings of the founders affirm it,
that the country, laws, culture, and society are based on Judeo-Christian traditional values.
Which laws? Where in the Constitution?
The country pre-exists the Constitution. The Constitution does not have to enumerate every force that influenced it. Your statement is a non sequitur.
What were those forces that influenced the Constitution? Could they have been substantially the same as those that influenced the Declaration of Independence?
Who was the most frequently cited author by the founders of the United States between 1760 and 1805? We can safely eliminate Harry Blackmun, Billy Clinton, Charles Darwin, Rousseau, Thomas Hobbes, Barack Obama, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Alan Dershowitz, Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche, Antonio Gramsci, Søren Kierkegaard, Karl Marx, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Machiavelli and a host of vain babblers like them. The Apostle Paul was the most cited author in the political media during that time frame.
What does the Declaration of Independence have to do with the Constitution? The Declaration is much closer to the Constitution than most constitutional law. “The National Lawyers Association takes the position that there is a legal connection or relationship between the Declaration and the Constitution.”
"Congress in 1878 enacted a revised version of the United States Code – our nation’s official compilation of federal law – that included a new first section entitled, “The Organic Laws of the United States.” “Organic Laws” mean “foundational laws” and Congress identified the Declaration of Independence and Constitution as being among our nation’s foundational laws. Additionally, the Supreme Court of the United States has declared that “… it is always safe to read the letter of the Constitution in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence.” Gulf, C. & S. F. Ry. Co. v. Ellis, 165 U.S. 150, 159-60"
Now you know why so many government officials have a visceral hatred of the Declaration and Constitution.
Someone already told you that your demand for “where in the Constitution” is a non-sequitur, or more accurately, just a question unrelated to the topic.
Let’s follow your line of reasoning - the founders pulled the laws of the land out of their collective asses and wrote them down - Happy?
I am happy.
I will restate the quote I used “The government of the United States, is not in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.”
This is from the Treaty of Tripoli, which was negotiated under President Washington, affirmed by the US Senate, and signed by President Adams.
If you wish to support your claims surely you can point to something in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, law of the United States, etc. that mentions the foundation of “Judeo - Christianity.”
That’s all I ask.
You’re comparing apples to oranges. Washington made a speech about the divine providence of the United States’ founding. The Treaty of Tripoli was crafted to deal with piracy....and the words in Article 11 1) are still a matter of controversy due to translation and 2) doesn’t make the signors complicit with article 11 which was a sidebar to the purpose of the treaty.
If you go back and read the speeches of the founding fathers, you’ll find most credit a higher power but they were careful not to specifically mention Christianity since it would go against their wishes to establish the nation by the will of the people, not the Bible (or the Pope).
But that doesn’t mean that their Christian beliefs didn’t play into the role and actions of government. So yes, our country was founded on Judeo-Christian beliefs as it guided the thoughts and actions of our founding fathers, even if it wasn’t the official credo of our nation.
Declaration of Independence -
endowed by our Creator (single, monotheistic God)
Divine Providence (eternal, omniscient God)
plus, the writings of the founders in the federal papers (which you left out on purpose).
But, no, I’ll go with your assertion that our laws and assumptions of rights were simply pulled out of the founders’ asses, as they must be, since they are based on nothing, based on no foundation of truth, and based on no set of traditions or values.
Whatever allows you to continue to do whatever the heck you please with no qualms or accountability.
“If you wish to support your claims surely you can point to something in the Constitution, Bill of Rights, Declaration of Independence, law of the United States, etc. that mentions the foundation of “Judeo - Christianity.”
That’s all I ask.”
There’s a good line from “A Few Good Men” where Tom Cruise asks a marine on the stand if he could turn to the page in the Marine operations handbook about where the mess hall was. The marine responds that there was guide, people just knew where it was as common knowledge, and he followed them at chow time. A similar point is made here, meaning it’s inherent...proof of which is in the many writings and speeches of our founding fathers. While they had no wish for a nation RUN by Christianity (they were, after all, educated men), their religious beliefs played a major role in the creation of our country.
In short, Christianity is not the official religion of the United States, but through our founding fathers beliefs and convictions was inherently present at our nation’s birth.
Creator.
The Mohamedeans don’t believe there is a creator? Nor the Hindus? Nor Savages in the wild?
“Judeo-Christian.” That is the term you used. Where may I find it in the annals of the America?
Oh, here you go - yep, these folks were pulling the founding principles out of their asses, and weren’t basing our country on any religion, most specifically not Christianity:
http://www.eadshome.com/QuotesoftheFounders.htm
Here’s just one quote from these “anus pulling” Constitutional authors:
At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge, the LORD is our lawgiver,
the LORD is our king;
He will save us.”
So why does the Constitution not cite Isiah?
Because the founders didn’t consider that there would be some dumbasses 200 years hence that would try to deny the existance of God and try to deny that our nation was founded on principles stemming from the acceptance of that existance.
But, I guess they were fallible humans, after all. Case in point.
“So why does the Constitution not cite Isiah?”
Because they hadn’t thought of someone 220 years later who was going demand they cite their convictions in bibliographic form as they outlined the tenets of government.
Dammit you beat me. lol
So, I jabbed and you right-hooked... :)
You’re right. It was as if it was a “given”. Like they didn’t have to explain gravity as one of the underlying assumptions they were making.
Well you know, contrary to popular belief, “creator” and “lord” referred to L. Ron Hubbard...even back then. ;)
I always love it when anti-Christians pull in all the other religions and try to state that they are equally valid and applicable - it’s laughable.
Nope, no founding Muslims, no Hindus, no Pagans, no Great Spirit worshipers.
Just founding Christians.
“Just founding Christians”
No Jews? That was half of your argument.
What type of Christians?
Ones escaping the b.s wars of religion in Europe, mostly.
That is why you can’t find a reference to your religion in the laws of my country.
Dude, you’re hopeless because you’re unable to think outside the literal.
If government exists to make laws over men...damn right I’m literal.
No, we are not a christian nation. Our constitution and laws were drawn in part from scripture and also from a lot of other traditions including the laws of Hammurabi, British Common Law and the old testament. That does not make us a Babylonian nation or a Jewish nation or mean that we are still part of the British Empire. We are a nation of laws constituted by wise founders who were careful not to mandate the tenants of any one belief system in our constitution. The constitution as it was originally written was meant to respect all beliefs while not imposing any of them on the citizens.
“If government exists to make laws over men...damn right I’m literal.”
This argument is getting circular. Those laws have basis. What do you think that basis is? Rape? Murder? We have laws against them why? Because they’re inconvenient or a distraction? No, it’s because they where/are considered IMMORAL behavior....where did those ethical mores come from, as it applies to the creation of our nation?
“Christianity neither is, nor ever was a part of the common law.”
—Thomas Jefferson.
I suppose I’ll engage in this ignorance with you.
Jews? Well, gee... Christ wasn’t born at the time that the 10 commandments were given, so I suppose Jews would have to be involved, right?
Again, why should I have to explain the “givens”?
Hey! Did you know that if you jump off your roof, you’ll go towards the ground? Yeah, you won’t hover, and you won’t go up! Amazing!
There were no laws before Christianity?
Funny, I find no references in the writings of the founders to The Code of Hammurabi...
British Common Law? Well, that would be more Western Culture, based on the Judeo-Christian value system.
Actually, we don’t “respect all beliefs” as some are anathema to our values (based on the Christian belief system), and we punish them with our laws.
Yes, we do impose our values (based on the Christian belief system) on our citizens in the form of laws based on those values.
Hurray for the ... ... ...!!!! If you know the joke...
You found a quote. Does your quote trump mine? Does it make mine not exist?
Wow... just went and looked, and that link is now 404!!!
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