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Evolutionists Fear Academic Freedom
Townhall.com ^ | July 5, 2008 | Floyd and Mary Beth Brown

Posted on 07/05/2008 5:23:33 AM PDT by Kaslin

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1 posted on 07/05/2008 5:23:33 AM PDT by Kaslin
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To: Kaslin
Evolutionists Fear Academic Freedom

Would the Brown's suggest opening up Geology to those who say the earth is flat? Or Astronomy to those who say the Sun revolves around the Earth? How about those who say the earth is hollow, or that man has never orbited the earth or set foot on the moon, or that Pi is actually 3.0 and not 3.14? If they're standing for academic freedom rather than science then shouldn't they be supporting those theories in the classroom as well?

2 posted on 07/05/2008 5:28:31 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Kaslin

I notice Mary and then Floyd made the same points sequentially


3 posted on 07/05/2008 5:32:01 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: Non-Sequitur

in the same terms as Provine? Wrong country to do that, as it was founded on a precept of Providence.


4 posted on 07/05/2008 5:33:43 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: Non-Sequitur

Your post truly is a Non-Sequitur, as all of those theories have been proven false. There is no absolute scientific proof that evolution occurs. So the debate must go on in order to be true to the scientific process.


5 posted on 07/05/2008 5:38:11 AM PDT by P8riot (I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.)
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To: Non-Sequitur

“opening up Geology to those who say the earth is flat? Or Astronomy to those who say the Sun revolves around the Earth? How about those who say the earth is hollow, or that man has never orbited the earth or set foot on the moon, or that Pi is actually 3.0 and not 3.14?”

more to the point, how about opening up Darwinism to Lamarck?

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/08/060807154715.htm


6 posted on 07/05/2008 5:56:36 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: P8riot
Your post truly is a Non-Sequitur, as all of those theories have been proven false. There is no absolute scientific proof that evolution occurs. So the debate must go on in order to be true to the scientific process.

If that is truly your position then it's you engaging in the non-sequitur and not I. There is a mountain of evidence supporting evolution, as tens of thousands of scientists have shown over the past 150 years. Your wild, and totally unsubstantiated, claim that there is 'no absolute scientific proof that evolution occurs' to the contrary notwithstanding.

But say for the sake of arguement that your claim is even partially true, then what? What absolute scientific evidence do you have of an intelligent designer? Or would you have us believe that if evolution is false then ID is true by default?

7 posted on 07/05/2008 5:57:07 AM PDT by Non-Sequitur
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To: Kaslin

There will be no academic freedom until we can teach what I think is the truth about creation:

Before time began there was no heaven, no earth and no space between. A vast dark ocean washed upon the shores of nothingness and licked the edges of night. A giant cobra floated on the waters. Asleep within its endless coils lay the Lord Vishnu. He was watched over by the mighty serpent. Everything was so peaceful and silent that Vishnu slept undisturbed by dreams or motion.

From the depths a humming sound began to tremble, Om. It grew and spread, filling the emptiness and throbbing with energy. The night had ended. Vishnu awoke. As the dawn began to break, from Vishnu’s navel grew a magnificent lotus flower. In the middle of the blossom sat Vishnu’s servant, Brahma. He awaited the Lord’s command.

Vishnu spoke to his servant: ‘It is time to begin.’ Brahma bowed. Vishnu commanded: ‘Create the world.’

A wind swept up the waters. Vishnu and the serpent vanished. Brahma remained in the lotus flower, floating and tossing on the sea. He lifted up his arms and calmed the wind and the ocean. Then Brahma split the lotus flower into three. He stretched one part into the heavens. He made another part into the earth. With the third part of the flower he created the skies.

The earth was bare. Brahma set to work. He created grass, flowers, trees and plants of all kinds. To these he gave feeling. Next he created the animals and the insects to live on the land. He made birds to fly in the air and many fish to swim in the sea. To all these creatures, he gave the senses of touch and smell. He gave them power to see, hear and move.

The world was soon bristling with life and the air was filled with the sounds of Brahma’s creation.


8 posted on 07/05/2008 5:59:54 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
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To: Kaslin

There was nothing in the beginning but seemingly almost endless chasm called the Ginnungagap. Ginnungagap was a void like the Greek Chaos. Ginnungagap was bordered by Niflheim, which is the place of darkness and ice, far to the north; and Muspelheim, a place of fire, far to the south. Out of this chaos the first being came into existence from the drop of water when ice from Niflheim and fire from Muspelheim met.

This first being was Ymir, a primeval giant. The frost-giants called him Aurgelmir, but everyone else called him Ymir. Ymir became father of a race of frost-giants.

Ymir was the father of six-headed son that was nourished by a cosmic cow called Audumla. Audumla fed herself by licking the salty rime-stone, until that stone was licked into a shape of man. This stone-man was named Buri and he was the first primeval god. Buri was the father of Bor.

Bor married the giantess Bestla, the daughter of the frost-giant Boltha. And they became the parents of the first Aesir gods Odin, Vili (Hoenir) and Ve.

Ymir grew so large and so evil that the three gods killed Ymir. The blood that flowed from Ymir’s wound was so great that almost all the frost giants drowned in the torrent. Only the frost giants Bergelmer and his wife escape the flood in a chest, arriving on the mountain of Jötunheim (Jotunheim), which became the home of the giants.


Yggdrasill and the Nine World

Odin and his brothers then used Ymir’s body to create the universe. This universe comprises of nine worlds. They placed the body over the void called Ginnungagap.

They used his flesh for creating the earth and his blood for the sea. His skull, held up by four dwarves (Nordri, Sudri, Austri, and Vestri), was used to create the heaven. Then using sparks from Muspelheim, the gods created the sun, moon and stars. While Ymir’s eyebrows were used to create a place where the human race could live in; a place called Midgard (Middle Earth).

A great ash tree called Yggdrasill (”World Tree”) supported the universe, with roots that connects the nine worlds together. One root of Yggdrasill extends to Muspelheim (”world of fire”), while another root to Niflheim (the “world of cold” or “of ice”). Niflheim was sometimes confused with Niflhel; Niflhel being known by another name – Hel, was the world of the dead. Hel was sometimes used interchangeably with Niflhel by many writers, as the world of the dead.

The name, Yggdrasill, means “Steed of Ygg”. Ygg is another for Odin, which means, “Terrible One”. Therefore, the great tree means in English, “Steed of the Terrible One”. Odin’s horse is named Sleipnir, but I found no connection between the tree and Sleipnir.

While one root was connected to Asgard (home of the Aesir), another root to Vanaheim (home of the Vanir). The frost giants lived Jötunheim (Jotunheim). Midgard was the world for human. Alfheim was home of the light elves (ljósálfar). There was also the underground world for the black elves (svartálfar), called Svartalfheim. The dwarves inhabited the world of Nidavellir.


9 posted on 07/05/2008 6:03:45 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
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To: Kaslin

Aztec Story of Creation
Quetzalcoatl, the light one, and Tezcatlipoca, the dark one, looked down from their place in the sky and saw only water below. A gigantic goddess floated upon the waters, eating everything with her many mouths.

The two gods saw that whatever they created was eaten by this monster. They knew they must stop her, so they transformed themselves into two huge serpents and descended into the water. One of them grabbed the goddess by the arms while the other grabbed her around the legs, and before she could resist they pulled until she broke apart.

Her head and shoulders became the earth and the lower part of her body the sky.

The other gods were angry at what the two had done and decided, as compensation for her dismemberment, to allow her to provide the necessities for people to survive; so from her hair they created trees, grass, and flowers; caves, fountains, and wells from her eyes; rivers from her mouth; hills and valleys from her nose; and mountains from her shoulders.

Still the goddess was often unhappy and the people could hear her crying in the night.

They knew she wept because of her thirst for human blood, and that she would not provide food from the soil until she drank.

So the gift of human hearts is given her.

She who provides sustenance for human lives demands human lives for her own sustenance. So it has always been; so it will ever be.


10 posted on 07/05/2008 6:04:59 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
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To: Kaslin

Maybe with so many competing stories of creation, Christian churches should be required to teach alternatives like evolution and the Hindu, Norse, and Aztec stories.


11 posted on 07/05/2008 6:06:44 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
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To: Kaslin

ping for later


12 posted on 07/05/2008 6:06:45 AM PDT by wintertime (Good ideas win! Why? Because people are NOT stupid)
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To: Non-Sequitur

“There is a mountain of evidence supporting evolution”

Of all this evidence, which is the strongest?


13 posted on 07/05/2008 6:11:48 AM PDT by reasonisfaith (Liberalism is service to the self disguised as service to others.)
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To: Soliton

your post can be included in the syllabus with proper references, though you’ll have to include your real name, so students can contact you with questions and find out more about your research.


14 posted on 07/05/2008 6:12:33 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: Non-Sequitur; antiRepublicrat
There is a mountain of evidence supporting evolution,...

"Supporting" does not equal "proving." While I agree that the accepted interpretation of existing evidence supports evolution, it does not yet prove evolution.

Thus the need to open up discussion.

15 posted on 07/05/2008 6:14:25 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: Kaslin
Dr. William Provine of Cornell University: “There are no gods, no purposes, and no goal -- directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end of me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning in life, and no free will for humans, either. What an unintelligible idea.”

Dr. William Provine of Cornell U, for all his atheism, in his mechanistic perspective and his absolute certainty, sounds positively medieval.

With due apologies to medieval thinkers.

16 posted on 07/05/2008 6:15:28 AM PDT by 668 - Neighbor of the Beast (Only a Kennedy between us and tyranny.)
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To: Soliton
Christian churches should be required to teach alternatives...

Last I heard, Christian churches are not supported by my tax dollars like public schools are.

17 posted on 07/05/2008 6:16:08 AM PDT by ShadowAce (Linux -- The Ultimate Windows Service Pack)
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To: gusopol3
so students can contact you with questions and find out more about your research.

My research comes from VERY old books and LOTS of beople believe it too. Shouldn't that be good enough?

18 posted on 07/05/2008 6:17:56 AM PDT by Soliton (Investigate, study, learn, then express an opinion)
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To: Soliton
supplemental materials into Louisiana public school science classrooms about evolution, cloning, global warming and other debatable topics

you fellas gonna allow any retrograde views on these topics?

19 posted on 07/05/2008 6:19:34 AM PDT by gusopol3
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To: Soliton

good enough to be in the syllabus.


20 posted on 07/05/2008 6:20:27 AM PDT by gusopol3
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