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Exclusive: Islamism and the So-called ‘Muslim Voting Bloc’: Shades of Theocracy
Family Security Matters ^ | July 4, 2008 | M. Zuhdi Jasser

Posted on 07/05/2008 9:00:56 AM PDT by nuconvert

Exclusive: Islamism and the So-called ‘Muslim Voting Bloc’: Shades of Theocracy

M. Zuhdi Jasser

July 4, 2008

The modus operandi for the political empowerment of Islamists in America is in full public display during every election cycle. The sad part is few realize how central "Islamic politics" is to the driving force of transnational Islamism and its threat to American security. The incessant attempts by American Islamist groups (like the MAS, CAIR, MPAC, ISNA, ICNA to name a few) to collectivize Muslims in the body politic - from voter registrations to their ideological grievance mill - point to their goals.

What better way to push forth a quasi-theocratic political agenda than to deceive the Muslim faithful into believing that their political survival as a minority in America depends upon the mixture of their faith identity with their political identity? These same Islamists spread the ideology of victimization and identity politics among any Muslims who will listen while they internally promote political Islam and Islamist statecraft within the ummah (Muslim community). They use their efforts at Muslim electoral involvement to exploit the spiritual ummah for political purposes. Most importantly, many in the mainstream media (MSM) and government turn to them to purportedly speak for the American Muslim population, even though they have no mandate or significant membership to do so.

The fact is that they (the Wahhabi lobby working in tandem with for what all practical purposes appears to be the international Muslim Brotherhood network) only speak for their memberships, organizations, and donors while certainly not representing the majority of American Muslims. But, what better way for them to cultivate future Islamists than to teach them and non-suspecting American media and government that the faith of Islam is intertwined with their political activism?

Forget party affiliation when they can indoctrinate their Muslim brethren that the Muslim ummah should become their political platform for societal and legal change and division. The mission is clear - first, build a political Muslim identity which drives the activism of American Muslims in their sway. Then, once that bond is created, slip in the agenda of political Islam driven by a domestic and foreign policy agenda which favors the interests of Islamists in government over other ideologies. Motivating a Muslim ‘bloc vote' is based upon this paradigm of Islamism for the Islamist minority.

Minority politics and the Islamist Agenda in America

In Western nations like the United States where Muslims are a small minority (less than 2% of the population) in a free election system where the laws of the land are secular, Islamist organizations must be far more cunning. They have quickly co-opted the propaganda of victimology and identity politics in order to collectivize American Muslims under their Islamist banners and exploit the grand deception that Muslims are monolithic. Forget the diversity of political opinions within the Muslim community. Forget the wide spectra of political ideology in both domestic and foreign policy with which devout Muslims may agree or disagree. The Islamist movement depends upon the motivating propaganda of victimology and identity while dismissing any genuine ideological debate on issues vital to America first.

Since 2000, these same eleven American Muslim organizations have set out to empower a "Muslim voting bloc." They then formed the American Muslim Political Coordination Committee-PAC. Back in 2000 on the heels of their lukewarm endorsement of then-Gov. George W. Bush they, along with many other ‘American voting blocs', went on to claim credit for President Bush's narrow victory. This year, the same PAC is moving toward a similar strategy claiming that the three priorities for Muslim voters are civil rights, a fair immigration policy, and ending the war in Iraq. This is clearly an Islamist agenda focused on victimology, identity politics, and the advocacy of Islamist interests in Iraq and abroad.

Talk to non-Islamist Muslims not affiliated with these organizations and you will find an agenda which more closely mirrors that of general America - the economy, health care, and national security. The Islamist agenda is simply to exaggerate their Muslim grievance mill so that candidates who are loath to be identified as anti-Muslim will divert the attention of the nation completely away from the national security problems associated with various Muslim ideologies contained within the global movements of political Islam. Again, gone is any discussion of an approach nationally to the forces of global political Islam - other than appeasement.

The Deception of Islamist Collectivism

This Islamist agenda will certainly peak the interests of national media who love a story which pigeon holes voters into bite size demographics - like the "Muslim voter." Sadly, this deception, no matter what the poll data says about how Muslims vote, becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy a decade in the make due to the unbalanced Islamist influence in American mainstream media and foreign Muslim media rather than from any real manifestation of Muslim ideologies. The logic of the Muslim voter is no different than the logic of a Christian voter in a nation which is majority Christian. Certainly, Islamists as a subset of Muslims, who are politically and theocratically-driven Muslims, are a relevant discussion during elections and from a national security perspective. But again, most Muslims are not Islamists. Rather, they look at political issues based upon the political platforms of established American party politics and ideologies - not Islamist politics.

Islamism feeds upon this toxic mixture of religion and politics. It is fueled by the ideologies spewed from the political mosque, pulpit, and imam. Islamism derives its nuclear energy from a much deeper desire to ultimately implement Sharia (Islamic jurisprudence) in government whether covertly or overtly. From the international Muslim Brotherhood, to the global metastases by petrodollars of Wahhabi ideology to the national manifestations of Islamism in the eleven groups of the AMT-PAC these organizations are all about the political empowerment of the Islamist agenda in national politics much more than they have anything to do with the personal faith of Muslims.

A typical example is the electoral antics of the Muslim American Society. Mahdi Bray, for example, stated the following after the victory of James Webb in the Virginia senate race of 2006:

"We delivered 80 percent of the eligible voting Muslims to the polls," Bray said in July at an Islamic Circle of North America-Muslim American Society convention in Hartford, Conn. "48,000 Muslims voted in Virginia. 93 percent of them voted for Webb, seven percent voted for Allen. Webb won by a slim margin of 9,000 votes. Now I don't care how you slice it, dice it and I don't care whether you are a mathematician or not, you can figure this out, that if 48,000 Muslims voted and 90 percent of them voted for the successful candidate, then certainly, and he only won by a 9,000 vote margin - we made a difference."

Linda Keay of IPT News notes that these numbers were never independently verified. But, what is most interesting is that the shear demagoguery of Bray's statement again paints a clear picture of the modus operands of Islamists in the United States. They seek to collectivize Muslims in electoral politics and whenever possible in order to spread the impression of their tribal control of the Muslim community and exert pressure on media and government to appease the agenda of political Islam in America.

Empowering Islamist Movements hampers anti-Islamists

It is certainly within the rights of any minority community to unite, circle the wagons, and affect democracy - many certainly do. But, a faith-based voting bloc of Islamists, who are the embodiment of political Islam, is blurring the line between religion and state far too much. It compromises a central element in the defeat of radical Islamism and our counterterrorism efforts - the defeat of the ideology of political Islam (ends) and the fuel for radical Islamism (the means). Political Islam and its stated goals fly in the face of our nation's principles that led to the tax exemption status for religious organizations. Isn't the establishment of this so-called Muslim voting bloc one step closer to the behaviors of the theocrats that our ancestors in the Middle Eastern community left behind by coming to the U.S?

A so-called Muslim voting bloc reinforces the stereotype that we are tribal. When we vote for president or any political leader, I believe most Muslims assess a gamut of issues related to our collective American national and state interests, which I believe mirrors most of the rest of the American population. The Islamist agenda is more related to the goals of global political Islam than our own American interests. However, it would be a mistake to conflate Islamists with all Muslims. From economics to health care to immigration to national security and the general role of government, the Islamic faith cannot fit into a single point of view or the three self-centered issues outlined by Islamist groups in 2008. The Islamist doctrine will always try to do that while deceptively exploiting the faith and our faith community.

It is time for media, government, and American citizens to understand and expose the deception that the Islamist agenda is somehow with little critique related to a larger Muslim spiritual agenda. A healthy distrust of the Islamist agenda will actually go a long way toward empowering non-Islamist Muslims to rise against the collectivist behaviors of Islamists on our behalf.

Separating the agenda of political Islam from Islam will need a much deeper reform within our theology. We need to separate the ummah from national politics and Sharia from government. But this will take decades - if not generations, much like it did for the Enlightenment in the West. In the meantime, we should at least refrain from accepting the mixture of the agenda of Islamists with that of all American Muslims. And American Muslims who continue to try and circle their wagons and exploit tribalism,need ask themselves just one question - how relevant would their voting bloc be if American Christians voted en bloc in the upcoming 2008 elections? Contributing Editor M. Zuhdi Jasser is the founder and Chairman of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy based in Phoenix Arizona. He is a former U.S. Navy Lieutenant Commander, a physician in private practice, and a community activist. He can be reached at

TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: churchandstate; islamism; islamists; jasser; jihadinamerica; muslim; muslimvote; mzuhdijasser; theocracy; wahhabilobby
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To: nuconvert
So, are you agreeing with this ridiculous statement? “The only time they’re happy is when they’re killing, maiming, or destroying. “

As others have repeatedly noted, it's not that Muslims (as individual people) are only happy when they're fighting infidels. The problem is that THEY ARE IN VIOLATION OF ISLAM when they are living in peace with non-Muslims.

Some items I've accumulated in my homepage may make it clearer:

Notes on Islam

The main sources of Islamic scripture is the Qu'ran (which ranks first) and the Sunnah

According to the website of the Muslim Students Association:

In Islam, the Arabic word sunnah has come to denote the way Prophet Muhammad (saas), the Messenger of Allah, lived his life. The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an. Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them. The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet (saas) or what he approved - as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah as already mentioned.
From my copy of the Koran:
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day ... until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low
            Surah IX:29

O ye who believe! Choose not for friends such of those who received the Scriptures before you
        Surah V:57

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush...
        Surah IX:5

And slay them wherever ye find them ... Such is the reward of disbelievers.
        Surah II:191

And it behoves not a believing man and a believing woman that they should have any choice in their matter when Allah and His Messenger have decided a matter; and whoever disobeys Allah and His Messenger, he surely strays off a manifest straying.
        Surah 33:36

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him)
        Surah 9:123

Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah.
        Surah 33:21 (note that this is important -- All that Mad Mo did is to be considered ideal conduct)

The following are quoted directly from the Hadith

Selections from the Hadith

Entrance into Heaven:

From Understanding Islam, page 2: "no one however devout and pious, can be sure of winning God's favor."

There is one, and exactly one, exception: Hadith Volume 4, Book 53, Number 352:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "Allah guarantees him who strives in His Cause and whose motivation for going out is nothing but Jihad in His Cause and belief in His Word, that He will admit him into Paradise (if martyred) or bring him back to his dwelling place, whence he has come out, with what he gains of reward and booty."
Note the bolded part above in hadith 352. The one and only guaranteed way into Muslim paradise is to be killed while fighting in Jihad.

Also in the Qur'an 9:111:

Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.
Translation: Allah has made a contract with the Muslims: in exchange for the Muslim's lives and property, mandated to be used to fight Jihad, they will be rewarded in Paradise. This is central to Islam -- in my readings of the Qur'an this is the one and only circumstance where I've seen Allah binding himself to a contract
On the Islamic "Last Days":
The Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.' "

The Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "The (Final) Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

On "collateral damage" (killing noncombatants)
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 256:
Narrated As-Sab bin Jaththama:

The Prophet passed by me at a place called Al-Abwa or Waddan, and was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)." I also heard the Prophet saying, "The institution of Hima [sanctuary; inviolate zone] is invalid except for Allah and His Apostle."

[ translation: the women and children of infidels are acceptable "collateral damage". A Muslim has no need to avoid killing them while attacking infidels (as the Palestinian suicide bombers demonstrate repeatedly) ]

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 196:
Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah 's Apostle said, " I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' and whoever says, 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah,' his life and property will be saved by me except for Islamic law, and his accounts will be with Allah, (either to punish him or to forgive him.)"

On Safiya, the 17 year old Jewish girl Mohammod raped("married") after killing her father, husband, and male relatives
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 143:
The Prophet said to Abu Talha, "Choose one of your boy servants to serve me in my expedition to Khaibar." So, Abu Talha took me letting me ride behind him while I was a boy nearing the age of puberty. I used to serve Allah's Apostle when he stopped to rest. I heard him saying repeatedly, "O Allah! I seek refuge with You from distress and sorrow, from helplessness and laziness, from miserliness and cowardice, from being heavily in debt and from being overcome by men." Then we reached Khaibar; and when Allah enabled him to conquer the Fort (of Khaibar), the beauty of Safiya bint Huyai bin Akhtab was described to him. Her husband had been killed while she was a bride. So Allah's Apostle selected her for himself and took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad-AsSahba,' where her menses were over and he took her for his wife. [...]
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 512:
The Prophet offered the Fajr Prayer near Khaibar when it was still dark and then said, "Allahu-Akbar! Khaibar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a (hostile) nation (to fight), then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned." Then the inhabitants of Khaibar came out running on the roads. The Prophet had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives. Safiya was amongst the captives, She first came in the share of Dahya Alkali but later on she belonged to the Prophet . The Prophet made her manumission as her 'Mahr'[dowry]
He took Safiya from the place where her husband, father, and other adult male relatives had been slain. As she was brought to him, she was led by the bodies of her relatives, neighbors and friends so that she was mute with shock when she arrived before Mohammod, who became impressed with her beauty. She was his war captive and slave. He made her his wife (in theory "freeing" her)
On Treatment of Those Who Try to Leave Islam
Treatment of a Jew who converted to Islam and left Islam to go back to Judaism Hadith Volume 9, Book 84, Number 58:
Narrated Abu Burda:
Abu Musa said, "I came to the Prophet along with two men (from the tribe) of Ash'ariyin, one on my right and the other on my left, while Allah's Apostle was brushing his teeth (with a Siwak), and both men asked him for some employment. The Prophet said, 'O Abu Musa (O 'Abdullah bin Qais!).' I said, 'By Him Who sent you with the Truth, these two men did not tell me what was in their hearts and I did not feel (realize) that they were seeking employment.' As if I were looking now at his Siwak being drawn to a corner under his lips, and he said, 'We never (or, we do not) appoint for our affairs anyone who seeks to be employed. But O Abu Musa! (or 'Abdullah bin Qais!) Go to Yemen.'" The Prophet then sent Mu'adh bin Jabal after him and when Mu'adh reached him, he spread out a cushion for him and requested him to get down (and sit on the cushion). Behold: There was a fettered man beside Abu Muisa. Mu'adh asked, "Who is this (man)?" Abu Muisa said, "He was a Jew and became a Muslim and then reverted back to Judaism." Then Abu Muisa requested Mu'adh to sit down but Mu'adh said, "I will not sit down till he has been killed. This is the judgment of Allah and His Apostle (for such cases) and repeated it thrice. Then Abu Musa ordered that the man be killed, and he was killed. Abu Musa added, "Then we discussed the night prayers and one of us said, 'I pray and sleep, and I hope that Allah will reward me for my sleep as well as for my prayers.'"

Mohammod on Prostitution:

Hadith Volume 6, Book 60, Number 139:
Narrated Abdullah:
We used to participate in the holy wars carried on by the Prophet and we had no women (wives) with us. So we said (to the Prophet ). "Shall we castrate ourselves?" But the Prophet forbade us to do that and thenceforth he allowed us to marry a woman (temporarily) by giving her even a garment, and then he recited: "O you who believe! Do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you."
On Punishment for Killing non-Muslims
Hadith Volume 1, Book 3, Number 111:
Narrated Ash-Sha'bi:
Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked Ali, 'Have you got any book (which has been revealed to the Prophet apart from the Qur'an)?' 'Ali replied, 'No, except Allah's Book or the power of understanding which has been bestowed (by Allah) upon a Muslim or what is (written) in this sheet of paper (with me).' Abu Juhaifa said, "I asked, 'What is (written) in this sheet of paper?' Ali replied, it deals with The Diyya (compensation (blood money) paid by the killer to the relatives of the victim), the ransom for the releasing of the captives from the hands of the enemies, and the law that no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).
On Mohammod's Having Sex With a Nine Year Old Girl
He marries his six year old niece Aisha and has sex with her when she turns nine Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65: Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that 'Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death)." what you know of the Quran (by heart)'
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 18:
Narrated 'Ursa:
The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry."
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, but the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)

Dogs are to be killed

from the Hadith Book 010, Number 3811
Abdullah (b. Umar) (Allah be pleased with them) reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) ordered the killing of dogs and we would send (men) in Medina and its corners and we did not spare any dog that we did not kill, so much so that we killed the dog that accompanied the wet she-camel belonging to the people of the desert.
[They devote a whole chapter of the Hadith to dogs and their killing -- follow the link]

On Islamic Paradise

From the Qu'ran, Chapter 52, "The Mounting"
Lo! those who kept their duty dwell in gardens and delight,
Happy because of what their Lord hath given them, and (because) their Lord hath warded off from them the torment of hell-fire.
(And it is said unto them): Eat and drink in health (as a reward) for what ye used to do,
They will recline (with ease) on Thrones (of dignity) arranged in ranks; and We shall join them to Companions, with beautiful big and lustrous eyes.
... Round about them will serve, (devoted) to them, young male servants (handsome) as Pearls well-guarded.
They will advance to each other, engaging in mutual enquiry.
[I'm guessing that all needs and desires will be satisfied, one way or another]

On Jihad and the Quranic concept of war

The US Army War College's journal had an interesting article on The Quranic Concept of War (the title of a book by Brigadier General S. K. Malik of the Pakistani Army). From reading the article, and from my own readings of Qur'an and Hadith, I've come to the conclusion that the vast majority of Westerners do not understand the full concept of Jihad

Jihad is not just armed fighting. It is not just car bombings or crashing planes into buildings. Jihad encompasses any and all acts which serve to advance Islam and the power of Muslims, or weaken the power of non-Muslims.

The end-goal of Jihad is to produce an environment where non-Muslims are afraid to speak out against Islam, and where Muslims do not experience any opposition to their spreading Islam by word and deed

In accordance with this, many activities can be seen as being part of Jihad:

  • The fatwa against Salman Rushdie is part of Jihad, because it intimidates other writers from mocking Islam
  • Filing "hate speech" charges against anyone who is critical of Islam (as happened in Australia to Rev Daniel Scott) is part of Jihad, since it intimidates others from speaking out
  • Murdering artists who make movies critical of Islam (as happened to Theo van Gogh), and politicians critical of Islam (Pim Fortuyn ) is part of Jihad, because it makes others afraid to speak out
  • A Muslim co-worker complaining about you to your boss because you made remarks critical of Islam, in an attempt to get you fired, is part of Jihad, because it creates a work environment where others are afraid to negatively discuss the topic
  • Gaining a degree of financial control over media outlets (like the Saudi Prince who bought a large percentage of Fox News) is part of Jihad, since it allows Muslims to shape how they are portrayed in the media

21 posted on 07/05/2008 1:18:34 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor (When injustice becomes law, rebellion becomes duty)
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To: SauronOfMordor

“The problem is that THEY ARE IN VIOLATION OF ISLAM when they are living in peace with non-Muslims.”

Nonsense. And by quoting the Muslim Students Association you are quoting the islamists.
Next time, a link to your homepage would suffice in lew of the spam.

22 posted on 07/05/2008 1:33:46 PM PDT by nuconvert (Obama - Preferred by 4 out of 5 Dictators & Terrorists)
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To: TWhiteBear
It is interesting that you quote the Koran, and the sages.

I don’t know if you’ve seen this one. The difference between Islam and Christianity is clear. Christians will forgive. Muslims will kill.

Killing is the nature of their religion.

The example of Mohamed on forgivness Sahih Muslim, Book 17: 4206

There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried.

The example of Jesus on forgivness (John 8:1-11)

But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. "Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?" They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. When they heard it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, "I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more."

23 posted on 07/05/2008 2:00:34 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is an EVIL like no other, and must be ERADICATED)
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To: nuconvert
“The problem is that THEY ARE IN VIOLATION OF ISLAM when they are living in peace with non-Muslims.”

You say this is nonsense, but this is directly from the koran. Please help me understand this command:

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 9:29 (Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to the Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

If you follow the words of your prophet, when you meet me, a Christian, you give me three choices:
1. Convert to Islam
2. Be killed
3. Submit and pay the jizya

Where am I wrong? This is the word of your god. Peaceful co-existence does not seem to be the will of Allah.

24 posted on 07/05/2008 2:22:34 PM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is an EVIL like no other, and must be ERADICATED)
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To: nuconvert
Nonsense. And by quoting the Muslim Students Association you are quoting the islamists.

The quotes are from the Quran and Hadith. The hadiths are from Sahih Bukhari collection. Are you saying these are false quotes? If so, please point to an authoritative source that gives a different translation

Do you deny that the posted quotes would be considered authoritative by mainstream Muslim clerics?

25 posted on 07/05/2008 4:02:53 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell)
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To: FatherofFive; nuconvert
If you follow the words of your prophet, when you meet me, a Christian, you give me three choices:

That situation is operative only when the Muslims have the POWER to implement that situation. When Muslims are in a position of weakness, the doctrine is to speak of peace while undermining the infidel societies that they are infiltrating

26 posted on 07/05/2008 4:06:59 PM PDT by PapaBear3625 ("In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell)
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To: nuconvert

The following is adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond’s book: Slavery, Terrorism and Islam: The Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:

Islam is not a religion nor is it a cult. It is a complete system. Islam has religious, legal, political, economic and military components. The religious component is a beard for all the other components. Islamization occurs when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their so-called ‘religious rights'.

When politically correct and culturally diverse societies agree to ‘the reasonable’ Muslim demands for their ‘religious rights,’ they also get the other components under the table. Here’s how it works (percentages source CIA: The World Fact Book (2007)).

As long as the Muslim population remains around 1% of any given country they will be regarded as a peace-loving minority and not as a threat to anyone. In fact, they may be featured in articles and films, stereotyped for their colorful uniqueness:

Nation % Muslim
United States 1.0%
Australia 1.5%
Italy 1.5%
Norway 1.8%
Canada 1.9%
China 2.0%

At 2% and 3% they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs:

Nation % Muslim
Denmark 2.0%
United Kingdom 2.7%
Germany 3.7%
Spain 4.0%
Thailand 4.6%

From 5% on they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. They will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature it on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. (United States).

Nation % Muslim
Switzerland 4.3%
Philippines 5.0%
Sweden 5.0%
The Netherlands 5.5%
Trinida and Tabago 5.8%
France 8.0%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islam is not to convert the world but to establish Sharia law over the entire world. When Muslims reach 10% of the population, they will increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions (Paris –car-burnings). Any non-Muslim action that offends Islam will result in uprisings and threats (Amsterdam - Mohammed cartoons).

Nation % Muslim
Guyana 10.0%
India 13.4%
Israel 16.0%
Kenya 10.0%
Russia 15.0%

After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning:

Nation % Muslim
Ethiopia 32.8%

At 40% you will find widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks and ongoing militia warfare:

Nation % Muslim
Bosnia 40.0%
Chad 50.1%
Lebanon 59.7%

From 60% you may expect unfettered persecution of non-believers and other religions, sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels:

Nation % Muslim
Albania 70.0%
Malaysia 60.4%
Qatar 77.5%
Sudan 70.0%

After 80% expect State run ethnic cleansing and genocide:

Nation % Muslim
Bangladesh 83.0%
Egypt 90.0%
Gaza 98.7%
Indonesia 86.1%
Iran 98.0%
Iraq 97.0%
Jordan 92.0%
Morocco 98.7%
Pakistan 97.0%
Syria 90.0%
Tajikistan 90.0%
Turkey 99.8%
United Arab Emirates 96.0%

100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace — there’s supposed to be peace because everybody is a Muslim:

Nation % Muslim
Yemen 99.9%
Afghanistan 100.0%
Saudi Arabia 100.0%
Somalia 100.0%

Of course, that’s not the case. To satisfy their blood lust, Muslims then start killing each other for a variety of reasons.

"Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; and the tribe against the world and all of us against the infidel."

– Leon Uris, ‘The Haj’.

It is good to remember that in many, many countries, such as France, the Muslim populations are centered around ghettos based on their ethnicity. Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. Therefore, they exercise more power than their national average would indicate.

27 posted on 07/05/2008 4:14:12 PM PDT by verga (I am not an apologist, I just play one on Television)
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To: nuconvert; All


Thank you for posting this article by Dr. Jasser.
I appreciate the way he thinks things through and
attempts to make a difference in the Muslim world
especially here in America.

As for those posters who actually take time to read the Quran/Koran — good for them and good for us. It is important to understand what the Quran/Koran states as a practical matter — for our survival.

I appreciate those posters who do quote the Quran/Koran verses. Americans need to know what is in there — again, not for religious purposes, but for our survival.

A good resource on the Quran/Koran is Mr. Robert Spencer.

Two videos of interest are:
“Islam: What the West Needs to Know - FULL LENGTH ENGLISH VERSION - 98 min - Jan 16, 2008”

March 27, 2008
“Here is Fitna”

28 posted on 07/05/2008 4:18:50 PM PDT by Cindy
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To: Cindy
I appreciate those posters who do quote the Quran/Koran verses. Americans need to know what is in there — again, not for religious purposes, but for our survival.

I still don't know why the koran isn't classified as hate speech. Great links for the under-informed about the threat of Islam.

29 posted on 07/06/2008 6:33:43 AM PDT by FatherofFive (Islam is an EVIL like no other, and must be ERADICATED)
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